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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On August 17 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote:
I think that was a mistake Jingle - there's a difference between being a confirmed townie and being able to bully everyone else into agreeing with you.
Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive.
why do people give such little credit to actions taken :<
if i were mafia i would have had to have taken the decision to start bussing people hard in a situation where it was totally unnecessary. it makes so little sense to me how people could view it that way.
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On August 17 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote:
I think that was a mistake Jingle - there's a difference between being a confirmed townie and being able to bully everyone else into agreeing with you.
Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive.
The "case" marv started with was pure fluff. He already planned to make the real one he came back to. His "reaction fishing" was just to get the means to convince the lurkers to vote for me. Any reaction, no matter what, can be made into a spectacle to convince lurkers to vote the right way for the wrong reasons.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Jingle, you should have NK me, not Lazer. Lazer was confirmed town but that matters for nothing if he's not going to push a mafia case hard
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United States22154 Posts
On August 17 2012 22:44 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:33 Zephirdd wrote:The QT thing is totally my fault. It's not strictly cheating to find it - we are under the chance of things like that occuring. I just think it's not cool for the game, and it would be better if people didn't even try to find QTs like that >,< also, the Xsebt thing was sad  It should be considered cheating if you're trying to find it though... That has nothing to do with what we're doing here. No matter if it's a QT, an irc-channel that some people forgot to make invite-only or whatever else, those things happen and I haven't heard of anyone actually finding the mafia hide-out although it would have been possible. Trying to find holes like this on purpose just sucks. Pretty sure one of my most recent games I played had a rule like that included as well.
If you do this, you'll never ever find out about glaring things like qts being searchable, because people will be afraid of being accused of cheating, and people who would abuse it will continue to abuse it without ever mentioning it. Sure it sucks, but you aren't going to stop the people who are going to try to find holes from looking for them, you're only going to stop the people who would come out about it from doing so.
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On August 17 2012 22:55 marvellosity wrote:
Jingle, you should have NK me, not Lazer. Lazer was confirmed town but that matters for nothing if he's not going to push a mafia case hard
I was honestly hoping the lurkers would be swayed on "why the fuck would marv still be alive if this was the case".
And I hate confirmed townies. Sure, 20/20 hindsight, and I knew beforehand you were probably more of a direct threat, but I try not to underestimate people, and Lazer can be fairly bright, even if he sucks at convincing people. Giving him confirmed townie status seemed iffy, even if he was insisting on not seeing me as scummy.
Was an educated gamble that went bad.
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On August 17 2012 22:56 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:44 Toadesstern wrote:On August 17 2012 22:33 Zephirdd wrote:The QT thing is totally my fault. It's not strictly cheating to find it - we are under the chance of things like that occuring. I just think it's not cool for the game, and it would be better if people didn't even try to find QTs like that >,< also, the Xsebt thing was sad It should be considered cheating if you're trying to find it though... That has nothing to do with what we're doing here. No matter if it's a QT, an irc-channel that some people forgot to make invite-only or whatever else, those things happen and I haven't heard of anyone actually finding the mafia hide-out although it would have been possible. Trying to find holes like this on purpose just sucks. Pretty sure one of my most recent games I played had a rule like that included as well. If you do this, you'll never ever find out about glaring things like qts being searchable, because people will be afraid of being accused of cheating, and people who would abuse it will continue to abuse it without ever mentioning it. Sure it sucks, but you aren't going to stop the people who are going to try to find holes from looking for them, you're only going to stop the people who would come out about it from doing so.
Yeah guess so
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On August 17 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote:
I think that was a mistake Jingle - there's a difference between being a confirmed townie and being able to bully everyone else into agreeing with you.
Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive. why do people give such little credit to actions taken :< if i were mafia i would have had to have taken the decision to start bussing people hard in a situation where it was totally unnecessary. it makes so little sense to me how people could view it that way.
it's totally your scum meta though
being a huge jerk to town and bussing all your crappy teammates
it's the marvellosity way
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On August 17 2012 23:25 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote:On August 17 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote:
I think that was a mistake Jingle - there's a difference between being a confirmed townie and being able to bully everyone else into agreeing with you.
Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive. why do people give such little credit to actions taken :< if i were mafia i would have had to have taken the decision to start bussing people hard in a situation where it was totally unnecessary. it makes so little sense to me how people could view it that way. it's totally your scum meta though being a huge jerk to town and bussing all your crappy teammates it's the marvellosity way
nuh-uh, my scum meta is to do what is necessary to win. In LIV when it was just me and froggynoddy after the modkills, I protected him for all I was worth because I needed us both alive.
Just as a small note to everyone - despite how we went at each other in the thread, Jingle and I have always gotten on pretty well and that still remains the case.
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On August 17 2012 23:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:25 strongandbig wrote:On August 17 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote:On August 17 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote:
I think that was a mistake Jingle - there's a difference between being a confirmed townie and being able to bully everyone else into agreeing with you.
Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive. why do people give such little credit to actions taken :< if i were mafia i would have had to have taken the decision to start bussing people hard in a situation where it was totally unnecessary. it makes so little sense to me how people could view it that way. it's totally your scum meta though being a huge jerk to town and bussing all your crappy teammates it's the marvellosity way nuh-uh, my scum meta is to do what is necessary to win. In LIV when it was just me and froggynoddy after the modkills, I protected him for all I was worth because I needed us both alive. Just as a small note to everyone - despite how we went at each other in the thread, Jingle and I have always gotten on pretty well and that still remains the case.
Indeed. I just had townie meta to try and live up to. Convincing lurking townies to vote for the right guy is always a shitstorm.
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Jingle, if there is one thing I believe, is that meta is pure bullshit :D
Sure you can determine some players on meta, but you aren't the case. You barely had 5 games played; it's the most volatile part of your meta, and you can't be accused out of it. If you play a game as town, don't ever post thinking "but I need to live to my meta" because it's simply wrong. If people try to accuse you over meta, show them their logic is wrong in this case.
That's my 2 cents
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On August 17 2012 23:46 Zephirdd wrote:
Jingle, if there is one thing I believe, is that meta is pure bullshit :D
Sure you can determine some players on meta, but you aren't the case. You barely had 5 games played; it's the most volatile part of your meta, and you can't be accused out of it. If you play a game as town, don't ever post thinking "but I need to live to my meta" because it's simply wrong. If people try to accuse you over meta, show them their logic is wrong in this case.
That's my 2 cents
My meta is the primary reason Marv knew to lynch me.
And I don't worry about meta as town, I just acknowledge it. But as scum, it's easy to slip into a holding pattern, like I did. Due to some assistance from townies who didn't want to listen to the nublet, it didn't look scummy, but since Marv knew a townie jingle would never do that, and he knew I would have murdered VE, he knew to push me.
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It is common for mafia (and town circles if PMs are allowed) to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC to communicate during the game. Please be mindful that other players may be more tech savvy than you and they may attempt impersonate members of your team or attempt to infiltrate your chat. You use these media at your own risk.
That's why I look for QTs - I assume that it is permissible because of this statement in the rules. Nevertheless, I've never been able to find one until this game, and I didn't check for it til after I died. Presumably this is because zephirdd messed up and didn't make it a "hidden" topic. I was also able to find the most recent newbie mini, but that's probably because the game was over and someone posted the link on the forums (which google then finds and makes indexable).
As far as cheating goes, I'm actually really curious to find out what zorkmid did since he's the only guy that did manage to get himself modkilled lol.
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As far as the game goes, I'm happy I nailed VE. I'm a bit sad more of the lurkers didn't realize how strong that case was until I was gone. Credit to marv for finishing the job and for catching out jingle. Marv drew enough attention to him that the others read his logs and found the slips, allowing the rest of the thread to come on board.
Other notes:
Hilarious that three of the strongest townies were millers wtf. And no medics??
Scum actually didn't play that great =/ Hassy and synystyr were non-factors while still appearing scummy. VE couldn't play to his town meta at all. Zeph got redchecked so no criticism there (I thought zeph was town because his town meta is to act scummy and he was acting scummy lol). Jingle played fine until he mistakenly thought he had to overreact to marv to appear townie.
gotta run now but I have a bit more to say about the real reason town and scum were weak this game:
people failing to control their emotions/frustrations about a game on the internet.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
talis, you should check out NMMII. Zeph played really townie there, it was great. Bang on with VE.
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Google docs spreadsheet is a pretty decent alternative to QT as I don't think they are searchable unless you publish them, so the only way to find it is if you are given the link. It also has real time chat and allows for more free flowing communication.
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On August 17 2012 22:54 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote:
I think that was a mistake Jingle - there's a difference between being a confirmed townie and being able to bully everyone else into agreeing with you.
Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive. The "case" marv started with was pure fluff. He already planned to make the real one he came back to. His "reaction fishing" was just to get the means to convince the lurkers to vote for me. Any reaction, no matter what, can be made into a spectacle to convince lurkers to vote the right way for the wrong reasons.
I don't think that was the case at all. I wasn't following this game, but I was talking to marv and he linked me that case when he made it. Just reading through it, it felt strong enough to me (without going back and reading the rest of the thread) to make you scummy. Your interactions with VE were damning. The fact that you started throwing a shitfit about it instead of even ATTEMPTING to defend yourself was just icing on the cake.
E: Also, I think you need to get away from the shitfit meta. I know thats what you do, but you're not going to be able to bully around vets with it like you were in newbie games.
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On August 18 2012 02:42 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:54 JingleHell wrote:On August 17 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote:
I think that was a mistake Jingle - there's a difference between being a confirmed townie and being able to bully everyone else into agreeing with you.
Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive. The "case" marv started with was pure fluff. He already planned to make the real one he came back to. His "reaction fishing" was just to get the means to convince the lurkers to vote for me. Any reaction, no matter what, can be made into a spectacle to convince lurkers to vote the right way for the wrong reasons. I don't think that was the case at all. I wasn't following this game, but I was talking to marv and he linked me that case when he made it. Just reading through it, it felt strong enough to me (without going back and reading the rest of the thread) to make you scummy. Your interactions with VE were damning. The fact that you started throwing a shitfit about it instead of even ATTEMPTING to defend yourself was just icing on the cake. E: Also, I think you need to get away from the shitfit meta. I know thats what you do, but you're not going to be able to bully around vets with it like you were in newbie games.
I don't bully anyone. The case was nonsense in the context of the thread. Without knowing that it was horribly out of character for me (you're also aware of this) it wouldn't have seemed particularly bad. Most people missed it entirely, because they pushed me out of the thread.
Also, if you look through the game, acting like I'm the only person who ever got pissed about a "right person wrong reason" or "wrong person right reason" lynch is ridiculous. I point you to Zeph, WBG, VE...
It's kind of a normal reaction. Also, I've never "bullied" people around with it. The success has always come from smacking people over the head with the obvious, sometimes dumbed down a bit until they understand it. The getting pissed part has never been productive. I just had no choice but to do it since Marv was reaction fishing, but it wouldn't have mattered.
Marv's ORIGINAL poke at me, before he actually made a case, during the night, was terrible, and had I been town, I'd have targeted anyone doing a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" emotion-exploiting case.
See Newbie XVIII where I ripped Vivax apart with just enough plausible deniability to finish things out.
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About the QT maybe Skype groups might work.
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On August 18 2012 03:28 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About the QT maybe Skype groups might work.
yeah thought about that myself. The only thing that really gets in the way of that is someone clicking the wrong guy and sending a message to someone who's in the same game you're in but not mafia as well, but that'd be your own fault :p
Other than that, I guess changing your nick in QT's, telling people who everyone is via pm's and only talking about people using those fakenicks should probably work as well, shouldn't it?
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On August 18 2012 03:37 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 03:28 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About the QT maybe Skype groups might work. yeah thought about that myself. The only thing that really gets in the way of that is someone clicking the wrong guy and sending a message to someone who's in the same game you're in but not mafia as well, but that'd be your own fault :p Other than that, I guess changing your nick in QT's, telling people who everyone is via pm's and only talking about people using those fakenicks should probably work as well, shouldn't it?
If I was in the scum QT and that was happening, I'd just look for correlations. "Oh damn dude, you slipped hard" or "shit we need to NK X" would make it fairly easy.
By the time you succesfully obfuscate the QT, you'd be better off just using another method of communication.
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or you could just be careful not to let your qt get googled.
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EPT
