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So let’s take a look at this excellent mafia orchestra!
Here I posted a visual aid displaying Day 1 mason targets. It seemed weird that a PM chain of four players had formed. Erandorr and Toad made sense; Errandor for reasons I may, or may not, have outlined here, and Toad masons Erandorr to find out what he’s up to. Hassy, on the other hand had no business masoning Toad, since he shouldn’t know about Toad masoning anybody. He was virtually a lurker up until that point, and throughout most of the day, yet he chose Toad out of 25 people to mason.
The contact between Hassy and Toad was established only after Toad PMed Erandorr. Hassy, it turns out, knew about Toad probing Erandorr, so he decided to probe Toad to keep him in check; to make sure Toad isn’t getting any crazy ideas, like Erandorr being mafia or anything silly like that.
If you take a look at the log between Hassy and Toad, the first thing Hassy starts to talk about is WBG and Erandorr. Hassy then gives 3 possible explanations for Erandorr’s mason move, and, before Toad even answers, suggests that the most plausible scenario is the one that makes Erandorr look town, albeit a stubborn one.
What a classic brainwashing technique by Hassy the Mobster. I will copy that move in the future. Because it’s good.
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So what makes WBG innocent in my eyes?
I’ve gone through the WBG-Erandorr log, and this is what I found.
+ Show Spoiler [Part of WBG-Erandorr log] +[04.08.12 13:20:49] WBG: the only reason I am in this game
[04.08.12 13:20:51] WBG: is as a favor to BC
[04.08.12 13:21:00] ME: fuck if you are town with this game
[04.08.12 13:21:05] WBG: also
[04.08.12 13:21:06] ME: there will be a lot of people shouting at you :D
[04.08.12 13:21:09] WBG: I've been requesting town
[04.08.12 13:21:10] WBG: for fucking
[04.08.12 13:21:12] WBG: 3 months
The above is only mentioned once by WBG. This is how I see it: WBG has been playing on the mafia side often, and wanted to play town for a long time. He now has exams and would like to concentrate on them, instead of playing mafia. CB, however, drags him into this game because of some favour and gives him the town role. WBG gets pissed off because he got the alignment he wanted, but at the worst possible moment. He doesn’t have time to concentrate on mafia and truly let his town skills shine. Further, two people mason him, one of which is Erandorr; the person that very frequently tunnels him in mafia games (stated by him on multiple occasions). This pisses WBG off even further; he didn’t care about this game to begin with, and now has to fend off a barrage of players poking at his brain, against which he cannot show his best town play because he is preoccupied with exams. And as far as I could tell, WBG prizes his reputation as a good mafia player very highly (Mafia 47 wasn’t his best foot).
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These are my reads:
WBG
Toad
Erandorr
Hassy the Mobster
Talis
Although Talis isn't involoved in that particular circle, he has made so many questionable moves that I cannot ignore him. I've described some points here and here. Toad is up there on the assumption that mafia players don't mason mafia players.
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VE, can you go into more detail about your thoughts on Zeph?
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Hier, stop with the connection theories until after we get a scum flip k?
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I don't want to kill either Erandorr or VE right now. The cases just aren't satisfying to me. In fact most of the stuff on VE is total shit. (and if he's scum I bet he's pissed for the shitty way he's getting lynched right now)
The above is only mentioned once by WBG. This is how I see it: WBG has been playing on the mafia side often, and wanted to play town for a long time. He now has exams and would like to concentrate on them, instead of playing mafia. CB, however, drags him into this game because of some favour and gives him the town role. WBG gets pissed off because he got the alignment he wanted, but at the worst possible moment. He doesn’t have time to concentrate on mafia and truly let his town skills shine. Further, two people mason him, one of which is Erandorr; the person that very frequently tunnels him in mafia games (stated by him on multiple occasions). This pisses WBG off even further; he didn’t care about this game to begin with, and now has to fend off a barrage of players poking at his brain, against which he cannot show his best town play because he is preoccupied with exams. And as far as I could tell, WBG prizes his reputation as a good mafia player very highly (Mafia 47 wasn’t his best foot).
I'm more busy than expected. I wanted to play town, but I didn't want to deal with bs.
Day 1 was nothing but bs. Like really, when Erandorr called me scum for the worst reasons possible, when I refuted every single point repeatedly (I was repeating myself over and over) and people sided with him, I had just had enough. I raged at him super hard in PMs because all he was doing was calling me scum in PMs. Like oh look, I think you're scum so I'm going to mason you so I can call you scum in PMs too.
There was literally no point to Erandorr masoning me other than to call me scum in PMs, because he had already made his mind up. So there's no convincing someone like that, then the point of the game is gone.
On August 08 2012 07:40 strongandbig wrote:
ugh whatever going to bed
this game is frustrating no one posts and everything is stupid.
idk but if erandorr was scum why wouldn't he have moved his vote onto ve it was totally justifiable but its on wbg which doesn't make sense as any alignment but maybe as town he ragequit whereas if he was scum he would have been pretending i think
idk fuck it im going to bed
why do you think I said "fuck it all" yesterday? No one uses their brain in this game.
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On August 08 2012 08:34 s0Lstice wrote:
Hier, stop with the connection theories until after we get a scum flip k?
Aww. Okay.jpg
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I'm not getting lynched Bugs - but the way I'm being wagoned pisses me off just as much as town as it would as scum.
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On August 04 2012 01:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't ignore people when I'm town. I only ignore people when I'm scum. Write that down.
VE, help me out a little here yea? I'd like to know what your scum read on Zeph is all about.
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On August 08 2012 08:51 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 01:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't ignore people when I'm town. I only ignore people when I'm scum. Write that down. VE, help me out a little here yea? I'd like to know what your scum read on Zeph is all about.
I'm writing my final case on Erandorr and I'll answer you shortly. Give me just a sec.
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Erandorr, Scum's Highly Volatile Mason
Erandorr's entrance into the game has been gone over and over, but I want to stress this.
There is no town-motivated reason for masoning Bugs after Bugs immediately outed me as mason if he felt that masons should not claim or be kept secret
This is huge, and it's being overlooked by the vast majority of the players in this game. His primary contention with Bugs was the fact that he outted us as masons. This means that he felt that our roles were sacred - that the information we had (knowledge of our roles) was worth keeping a secret from scum.
But instead of calling Bugs out on this behavior when it was exhibited (read: when he outed me as mason), he masoned Bugs instead.
Why? To what end? He claims that his intention was "to see if he'd do it again". ….why? What's the point of that? He's done it once, isn't that enough? He claims that if he hadn't, then he would have simply asked why he did it. But…that doesn't make any sense either does it? Because if he was going to ask that when he outed ONLY me as mason, why would the same question not be valid after outing both of us as masons? And in what way does Bugs' move to out ONE of us as mason and not the other make ANY MORE SENSE than outing both of us as masons?
It doesn't. It's all a bunch of bullshit.
Next, go through and try and find some of Erand's reads. Go on, I can wait.
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That's right - he mentions NO ONE. NOT ONE SOUL other than WBG until his second to last post.
Why? OH THAT'S BECAUSE I'VE NOW SHONE THE LIGHT ON HIM. He'll attest that he's had a spotlight on him all this time, but that's not TECHNICALLY true is it? The spotlight has been on wherebugsgo, NOT Erandorr. Know how I know?
Because not one person has brought up the fact that Erandorr has done fuck-all but tunnel Bugs besides Bugs all fucking game.
I can't spell it out ANY clearer for you guys. If you want to lynch me, that's fine. I'll take the loss. Because I FUCKING KNOW that when I flip town, you'll immediately about face and then vote for Bugs, NOT Erandorr. And town will lose.
If you want to win however, then unvote me and vote for Erandorr. We remove a scum mason from the game, we don't lynch me ( ) and I get to lobby for Bugs' and my life for another day.
A vote for Erandorr is a vote for Town Victory!!
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well here's the problem:
what if Erandorr is town?
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as it stands right now, I think Eran is set to be lynched anyway. Plurality right?
The problem I have with Erandorr stems from what bugs says about him. He calls him scum in all the games they are in together, regardless of evidence. It doesn't surprise me therefore that in this game, where he has a blue-ish role, that it was targeted at bugs. If he was a vig, he'd have shot him. If he was a DT, he would have checked him. If he was mason...etc etc. This would all be done regardless of information in the thread that ran counter to his read on bugs.
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On August 08 2012 09:22 s0Lstice wrote:
as it stands right now, I think Eran is set to be lynched anyway. Plurality right?
The problem I have with Erandorr stems from what bugs says about him. He calls him scum in all the games they are in together, regardless of evidence. It doesn't surprise me therefore that in this game, where he has a blue-ish role, that it was targeted at bugs. If he was a vig, he'd have shot him. If he was a DT, he would have checked him. If he was mason...etc etc. This would all be done regardless of information in the thread that ran counter to his read on bugs.
Except the point is not that he targeted Bugs alone - it's that he targeted Bugs knowing he would out him as mason. He can say he didn't know Bugs would do that all he wants, but he claims the reason he did it was to see if he'd do it again, implying that he saw him do it once before. I can't imagine that he would think Bugs would out me as mason and not him - he had to know what Bugs was going to do.
@Bugs
If Erand flips town, I'll literally eat my hat. ()
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zentor, zephirdd, toad, wbg et al get your stuff together. There's no reason to vote for anyone either than erandorr or VE right now. Even if you think both are town, pick the one you're least sure about.
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The only person who knew what bugs was going to do is bugs. Eran could guess that he'd be outed based on a past occurance, but how could he know for sure?
Eran sees bugs out VE as mason-> decides it's anti-town->masons Bugs to test if he will double up->gets outed->kill switch engage for two anti-town (as he sees it) plays
maybe you don't like his trap card, but it makes sense in a convoluted way. Eran also talked about what would happen if he didn't get outed, so he did consider it a possibility.
It seems weird to me as well that a scum mason would be so keen on being potentially outed on day 1.
I really hope I'm wrong here, but I have a feeling he'll flip town.
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Well, nobody sees what I see on CD 
I agree it's a waste of time to talk about him.
Also, fuck this VE wagon. Erandorr is full of shit. VE(as well as WBG) have been using logic more than anyone out there --'
Soooo yeah.
##unvote
##vote Erandorr
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blah I can't imagine VE is town. I really can't. And why the fuck does erandorr vote wbg in the spot he did? He calls VE scum and could easily have done so, but he chose to essentially throw his vote away. That seems like a townie tunneling their scumread.
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Dropula I know you're out there and reading. Pick one of VE or Erandorr. We know you want to lynch zephirdd, fine. But he's not going to be lynched. So pick one of the other two (here's a hint: pick the guy zephirdd isn't voting for: VE).
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On August 08 2012 09:39 Zephirdd wrote:
Also, fuck this VE wagon. Erandorr is full of shit. VE(as well as WBG) have been using logic more than anyone out there --'
Soooo yeah.
Oh, come on. I was the first to call out Erandorr for his mason using more than one line. Does anyone even read my posts?
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On August 08 2012 09:57 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 09:39 Zephirdd wrote:
Also, fuck this VE wagon. Erandorr is full of shit. VE(as well as WBG) have been using logic more than anyone out there --'
Soooo yeah.
Oh, come on. I was the first to call out Erandorr for his mason using more than one line. Does anyone even read my posts?
Sorry.
VE, as well as wbg, as well as Hier.
it's a bigger game than I'm used to, I may forget some peoples names >_>"
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EPT
