EPTMad Men Mafia - Page 33
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Hier
2391 Posts
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
On August 05 2012 06:36 Toadesstern wrote: also vote prplhz ok | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On August 05 2012 06:35 slOosh wrote: It goes back to "why would scum WBG do what he did?" Because you say that outing masons is completely anti-town and disagree with what he did. However, this isn't absolute truth as logic is, it is a camp of thought, something like "masons are valuable town resources and should be treated with same respect / care as other traditional blues". His camp of thought is "outing masons is better as a reasonable way to confirm the alignment of the mason, hinder scum use of masons and force them to make subpar shots". The issue is how valuable do you think a mason is. More than a cop? Less than a medic? There isn't a clearcut answer, and trying to come to a consensus inside a game is futile and unproductive. He outted 2 masons without asking them because asking beforehand defeats the whole purpose. Through it we now have varying degrees of town-reads on you and VE. That's a town motive - get more accurate reads on town. You can dispute how it wasn't worth outting a blue, but first you would have to convince everyone that what he did was egregious and utmost scummy, and then you would have to convince us that WBG knew this and chose the "inferior" path and therefore what he did was scummy. Because I think what he did was fine. Am I supporting a scummy thought? I don't think so. It's just different. Several of us (me, Toad, VE) have moved on with varying opinions on WBG. I ask you to do the same. Consider prplhz and talismania. If you still think WBG is scum that's fine, but let's focus as a town and get some discussion on prplhz and talismania, because regardless of today's lynch they are serious contenders for d2 lynch. yeah prplhz deserves to be hammered as well, but it still amazes me that you would reduce the entire case on bugs on the mason thing. I think strongandbigs points were the strongest, to be frank, he found some really good quotes and made some very good points on wbg. Which is funny, because if you read what wbg is writing, he is reducing almost everything that has been written as me tunneling him and I am completely terrible and tunnel him every game*(which is a lie btw. In the Pms he even lied straight to my face and said I called him scum in mini mafia X (where he was scum) when I actually did not consider him. Look at the logs and that game,he is blatantly lying about that) . And it is working. I will keep my vote on WBG unless someone other than him or Prplhz would get lynched, in which case I will move to prpl. No one else though and I would rather see WBG dead than prplhz | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
This plays into mafia agenda. This game is plurality lynch. Our concern is never the no lynch. Our concern is not consolidating, allowing mafia votes to have more power (since are on the same page and can pool votes more effectively). I'm not bullying you - I'm asking you to be realistic. Right now WBG is the frontrunner. He will get lynched unless people unvote him, or people vote someone else more than him. You have the power to do that latter. However, sticking your vote on someone who has no votes is essentially throwing away your vote. Unless you think WBG is scum and prplhz isn't there should be any reason not to vote prplhz. Please realize that independence weakens town's ability to lynch correctly. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On August 05 2012 07:05 Hier wrote: Nobody here is out to prove they are town, it being impossible. Instead people are speculating on who is most likely to be mafia. So slOosh, prplhz has done nothing for me to think he is town, but I disagree that he is the scummiest player here right now. So who is the scummiest player right now? Toad? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On August 05 2012 07:12 slOosh wrote: OK: Dear all the townies who think they are being cool with voting who they want: This plays into mafia agenda. This game is plurality lynch. Our concern is never the no lynch. Our concern is not consolidating, allowing mafia votes to have more power (since are on the same page and can pool votes more effectively). I'm not bullying you - I'm asking you to be realistic. Right now WBG is the frontrunner. He will get lynched unless people unvote him, or people vote someone else more than him. You have the power to do that latter. However, sticking your vote on someone who has no votes is essentially throwing away your vote. Unless you think WBG is scum and prplhz isn't there should be any reason not to vote prplhz. Please realize that independence weakens town's ability to lynch correctly. I honestly don't see how you can make a case against prplhz for his vote on Glasse, without looking at Erandorr just as badly for WBG. You can't make a case against prplhz for volume of posts, when we've got worse lurkers who are pretending to be active. You can't make a case against prplhz for content of posts without at least considering content of people like Erandorr. I can't get a good read on WBG either way, but neither of them seems like a better case than Erandorr. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On August 05 2012 07:03 talismania wrote: Yeah you're all right I misremembered. We really really really need some host clarification here: Will WBG be modkilled for voting for himself? Will other votes count for WBG in that case? He will get a warning if his vote is still on himself at deadline, he will be mod-killed if it occurs again. | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
I really still think Erandorr is the best read. He starts with this gem, voting on Bugs for no reason at all. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not a fan of votes for literally no reason, as they don't create functional discussion, and could cause trouble, or be used as cover later. On August 03 2012 11:37 Erandorr wrote: Show nested quote + lets start this game right ## VOTE: WBG Its a joke I make in quite a few games I play with WBG. Feel free to check, I won't do it for you. Most of page 2 of his filter is nonsensical babble or ad homs. He masons onto WBG after WBG outs VE, as "proof" WBG is outing masons. Or maybe to get himself confirmed as a role in hopes he gets some BOTD. He throws out personal attacks against anyone who disagrees with him repeatedly, an example: On August 03 2012 23:58 Erandorr wrote: Yo you guys. You actually don't use "reason" or "arguments" you just sit there and talk shit. If you disagree with me, point out mistakes you think I made instead of shitting out terrible posts What I am posting below is the post I was referring to. Would you not agree that my outburst was warranted, considering this example? Is there any way you would call that post below anything else that "shit" or "terrible" ? oh oh oh I know why not hammer him right now! Deadline is on saturday. No one is lynched until then. You can't hammer someone right now Epic defense against Hier. On August 04 2012 08:23 Erandorr wrote: Show nested quote + Dear god I hope you are trolling Did you read Hiers case? Do you agree with the points he made? Because that one is so terrible I honestly didnt even think I would have to reply to that one. Which blithely ignores certain parts of the log, like ME: its about you playing like complete dogshit ME: you are playing like shit ME: your logic is really bad [04.08.12 13:03:32] ME: the one where you got killed [04.08.12 13:03:42] ME: cause you fucked up as scum? [04.08.12 13:03:57] ME: okay sry i just thought that was funny Those are some brilliant examples of attempting productivity, and keeping it calm. I assume you have read the entire log. Did you notice that he insulted me about 100 times before that? And the one time I get so upset as to say what I do in the quote I INSTANTLY APOLOGIZE? I mean seriously, this shit here borders on malicious. Now would you mind telling us why you have not said a single word about the WBG case? What are your thoughts on him? It is a bit strange to not mention something that has been talked about for like 20 pages. Would you also mind telling us what you think about talismania? You already gave the 1 line that were your thoughts about prplhz, so I don't have to ask that as well! I have answered every point of your case against me, if there is something that you are still not convinced about , please let me know. Now how about you start talking about people who may actually get lynched today  | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 05 2012 06:35 slOosh wrote: It goes back to "why would scum WBG do what he did?" Because you say that outing masons is completely anti-town and disagree with what he did. However, this isn't absolute truth as logic is, it is a camp of thought, something like "masons are valuable town resources and should be treated with same respect / care as other traditional blues". His camp of thought is "outing masons is better as a reasonable way to confirm the alignment of the mason, hinder scum use of masons and force them to make subpar shots". The issue is how valuable do you think a mason is. More than a cop? Less than a medic? There isn't a clearcut answer, and trying to come to a consensus inside a game is futile and unproductive. He outted 2 masons without asking them because asking beforehand defeats the whole purpose. Through it we now have varying degrees of town-reads on you and VE. That's a town motive - get more accurate reads on town. You can dispute how it wasn't worth outting a blue, but first you would have to convince everyone that what he did was egregious and utmost scummy, and then you would have to convince us that WBG knew this and chose the "inferior" path and therefore what he did was scummy. This is beside the point. It's not that he revealed the masons, it's how he did it, how he justified it in the thread and how he acted under pressure. | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 05 2012 07:26 talismania wrote: Jingle I think you're town and all but why does a scum mason mason some guy who just outed another mason? Why does scum erandorr do that? why does town erandorr do it? it's bad play either way imo. | ||
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Erandorr
2283 Posts
On August 05 2012 07:28 strongandbig wrote: why does town erandorr do it? it's bad play either way imo. I actually kind of agree. Probably should not have done that , but considering the results I can't be unhappy. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 05 2012 07:07 Erandorr wrote: yeah prplhz deserves to be hammered as well, but it still amazes me that you would reduce the entire case on bugs on the mason thing. I think strongandbigs points were the strongest, to be frank, he found some really good quotes and made some very good points on wbg. Which is funny, because if you read what wbg is writing, he is reducing almost everything that has been written as me tunneling him and I am completely terrible and tunnel him every game*(which is a lie btw. In the Pms he even lied straight to my face and said I called him scum in mini mafia X (where he was scum) when I actually did not consider him. Look at the logs and that game,he is blatantly lying about that) . And it is working. I will keep my vote on WBG unless someone other than him or Prplhz would get lynched, in which case I will move to prpl. No one else though and I would rather see WBG dead than prplhz I think I'm cutting at what started the whole thing. I can see what he did being a town move to make. You can disagree with that but it doesn't mean that it is fundamentally scummy. It has had the effect of giving soild / better town reads on you and VE, pressured scum masons and perhaps night kills. I don't think his original intent in outing masons was a scummy thing to do. He could have easily passed off shooting VE N1 no probs. If he really thinks your play is poor, he would have been fine letting you live. Rather, WBG outted the information publicly, giving town reasons. His follow up play is ugly. I agree with you. However I can see it stemming from frustration and anger. Maybe I can empathize because I did the exact same thing in Normal Mini Mafia II, where I got emotional and did a whole bunch of anti-town stuff, leading to my mislynch and town loss. I agree that he did some serious mudslinging, and that there is bad blood in thread. However, I think the cause of his frustration is justified in that the original case against him doesn't really show him scum. My meta read on him is town - he is consistent not only with his play this game but his recent mafia philosophys. Yes, he is hypocritical in that he got pissed off and he admits it with the establishing innocence post, but I find that him being town makes much more sense. Maybe I'm being biased because I respect the guy and think his scum play doesn't stoop this low, but it is what it is. In either case, I think we can glean so much more of everyone's response to the WBG issue regardless of WBG's actual alignment. That's the direction I want to go from here. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On August 05 2012 07:28 strongandbig wrote: why does town erandorr do it? it's bad play either way imo. He claims it's because he wanted to confirm what wbg would do because he was suspicious of him. I agree with you and don't think any of it is clearcut. Also more interested to hear how jinglehell sees it. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
You say you know your alignment like that should be solid proof for anyone, and you were talking a LOT of shit in page 2 of your filter, not just that random quote. The majority of page 2, in fact, was shit talking or contentless fluff. Hier's case may not be some perfect thing, but just calling it a troll when it was at least no worse than your case against WBG, which you seemed to expect to be taken seriously, yeah, I think that's off. And you were talking huge shit right at the start of the log. Not just him. You were both at fault for the arguments, so trying to act like you were trying desperately to get along, and that meany poopoo head just kept calling you names and stealing your dolly... yeah, it won't fly with me. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On August 05 2012 07:24 JingleHell wrote: I honestly don't see how you can make a case against prplhz for his vote on Glasse, without looking at Erandorr just as badly for WBG. You can't make a case against prplhz for volume of posts, when we've got worse lurkers who are pretending to be active. You can't make a case against prplhz for content of posts without at least considering content of people like Erandorr. I can't get a good read on WBG either way, but neither of them seems like a better case than Erandorr. well WBG kinda did the "fuck you guys I'm out" I usually policy lynch people like that and I'm really trying hard to not ignore everything I posted the last couple of pages and just policy lynch WBG. Not to mention that I'm still giving him an about coinflip (50%) chance or even more to flip mafia. Eran is trying to get people onto WBG instead of anyone else (or at least tried to until recently) while Prplhz doesn't care about the lynch. What Eran does might look pretty bossy or even mean as in pushing people around but that's a sign that he cares about the lynch and wants to make sure we lynch the right guy although people tend to disagree about what the best lynch is. That looks bad but it's really not. It's a classical town sign. Prplhz on the other hand did the cheapest vote I've EVER seen, with the cheapest explanation I've ever seen. Bugs's "Grush has to be mafia because of this (his only) post he did" is ranked 2nd btw. | ||
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