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On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like".
Just finished reading it.
So you're thinking about this wrong.
wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid.
So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze.
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On August 05 2012 05:36 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:27 Toadesstern wrote:On August 05 2012 05:14 talismania wrote:
actually that's a legit point toad who do think is scummiest: VE, Eran, Mason A, Mason B (A and B masoned you)? Do you think all of them are town? if one of them had to be mafia? A or B. I consider it highly likely that mafia would mason someone who says "I'm against outing masons" like I did instead of masoning someone else. So if there's only 4 masons in the game I'd say it's quite likely that one of those 2 who masoned me is mafia. However I don't know how many masons there are. I know of 4 and I wasn't the only one who said he's not going to out masons. I'm going to post logs prior to the n1 deadline though. If someone else. who happened to be very vocal about not outing masons got masoned as well and we have a "Mason C" somewhere or even a "Mason D" not using his mason power that might change the whole assumption. If we only have 4 masons one of the 2 guys on me has to be mafia imo but there's no reason to believe there are only 4 masons in this game right now. Or at least nothing that indicates that it's that way and I don't plan on lynching 2 mason for the lulz just to figure out there was a 5th mason. Just discern what they are trying to accomplish with their PMs whether they are trying to sway the lynch one direction over the other etc. Because I really want to lynch talis but more important than that is that we consolidate our votes and hit either prplhz or talis. Or WBG if you really, really, really still think he is scum.
I still think WBG is a good lynch and it's very much possible that this frustration was a charade when we're talking about WBG. I don't think he's the best lynch though, because I have reads that are conflicting with my Mafia-Bugs-read and because I have to assume this frustration was a charade to be able to talk about him as a possible mafia.
Ockham's razor clearly tells me to lynch either into Prplhz or Talis at this point and assume WBG is genuinely pissed right now but I'm not going to say he's looking town because if we're talking about WBG he IS able to fake something like that and it was "just" an hour. You should have seen what he went through in the famous VE vs Toad game when he was town, but he didn't have finals back than.
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United States21170 Posts
Bugs I need a question answered. If you live today are you going to keep playing or are you going to quit regardless of the outcome of the lynch?
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On August 05 2012 05:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs I need a question answered. If you live today are you going to keep playing or are you going to quit regardless of the outcome of the lynch?
What stops him from saying yes and coming up with a reason not to if he survives?
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On August 05 2012 05:48 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like". Just finished reading it. So you're thinking about this wrong. wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid. So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze.
I understand where you are coming from, and if that's general town consensus then maybe it is best if WBG died so we clear up the air. I would disagree with that but that doesn't accomplish anything, namely getting the lynch I want in prplhz or talismania. So between you and me let's talk D2 lynch.
talismania has outed Toad's masons (and I don't think the Toad claimed them prior), and has called out a potential mason tie between me and countdropula. Do you find him guilty of scum on those grounds? And thoughts on prplhz' general play thus far.
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Ok let's make prplhz happen
##vote prplhz
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Alright that ends that. Dear townies who aren't really paying too much attention:
Lynch prplhz.
His filter shows no desire to actually scumhunt. His positioning on WBG is opportunistic and doesn't actually do anything to either move the lynch forward or stop it. Cases have been made before:
On August 04 2012 04:30 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 04:25 slOosh wrote:
So what specifically about Prplhz sticks out to you? Okay so I'm doing this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=14#264 and prplhz answers with this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=14#265 I considered his post reasonable. My post had nothing in it other than some colored names. The normal reaction should be "why?" and he did that. Next thing he does is this himself after "calling me out" on my first post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=15#295 As mentioned. I obviously thought this is a joke or some reaction fishing to test how glasse reacts or wether or not some idiots join in and yell "yeah, let's lynch that mofu! Totally agree". Why I thought it has to be a joke? Look at glasse's filter. The guy had 3 posts back then. Two posts that read nothing to me and one I actually liked. His "case" involves all 3 posts glass did: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=15#299 1st post: I have never played with glasse and it's his first post. It's useless. No shit sherloc. Let's check the first post of some guys and you'll realize that most stuff is useless or even trollish. 2nd post: I kind of agree with what prplhz posted here, however as mentioned I never played with glasse. If this guy is a vet I never heard about, that's a bad post. If this guy is some new guy, like I care lol 3rd post: I actually liked that post and considered it a possibility myself. WBG could have made both things up, knowing that at least VE was not around to get some reactions. I don't see that as undermining WBG at all. It's saying "hey guys, let's not get to much into this and wait until we get a confirmation from VE and Eran on this". That's reasonable. So again, I considered this to be a joke and thought prplhz is fishing for reactions because there's no way he actually thinks that way imo. But he admitted he actually meant what he posted so that's really weird. On August 04 2012 04:50 slOosh wrote:
Mmm yea, I'd agree with you on the Glasse. Voting first and giving an explanation afterward when asked of the suspect seems backward to me.
Furthermore, I dunno why he called me out - I played like junks the game he mentioned so why my input was absolutely necessary seems like a diversion if anything. In either case I'm interested in his updated thoughts so I'll wait on those.
He has no thoughts. He has no contributions. He doesn't care about today's lynch. He is scum.
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I absolutely don't want to mislynch so I'm all for consolidating my vote.
On wbg. perhaps I'm missing something due to not knowing his meta at all, but that part of the discussion went right over my head. Based on what I've seen in this game, I think he's town. It was a strange play to immediately out masons without telling them, but I don't think it can be conclusively anti-town. Creating sub-par targets for KP is the biggest benefit I see.
Right now that seems to leave Grush, Talis and prplhz for current lynch candidates (of people I'd be willing to lynch).
I don't know what grush is, but everyone seems happy to let a vig take care of him if we have one and his death doesn't give us anything to go on other than perhaps a quieter environment to play. I don't think he's worth wasting a lynch on today.
Talis has been undoubtedly more active than prplhz, but about as useful in the active discussions of the thread. He posts requesting reads from other people without contributing any of own. His filter contains many posts pertaining to setup questions (i.e. more than once) and in general it looks like he's skirting the sidelines of the conversations. Despite his relative activity, I don't really know who he might vote for or who he is really suspicious of anymore.
Prplhz got some vote pressure done early on, and has since disappeared into hangover land. I really don't see how this is considered so very scummy, and I don't see enough of a case to justify voting for him yet. Still, he's scummier than bugs so I may end up switching my vote to avoid wbg's lynch.
##Vote: talismania
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On August 05 2012 05:48 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like". Just finished reading it. So you're thinking about this wrong. wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid. So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze.
Could you guys also please look at the "fight" where i try really hard to actually do stuff and he insults me about 100 times.
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United States21170 Posts
Phoneposting...stating agreement with prplhz lynch, promising reasoning when circumstances allow.
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haven't read pg 31 yet but wanted to interject something quickly
I haven't heard a response from BC yet but if WBG keeps his vote on himself I don't see why anyone else should vote for him. He will be modkilled and maybe worse for breaking the rules of the game, so there's no point to vote for him if he's not going to change his mind.
In fact, WBG you might as well just quit the game if that's how you feel. Getting yourself lynched/modkilled wastes town's time, and if you want to help town by removing yourself as a distraction, then quit and town get get on with lynching me or prp or whatever.
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United States21170 Posts
Bugs mean regardless of alignment. Deal.
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On August 05 2012 06:24 talismania wrote:
haven't read pg 31 yet but wanted to interject something quickly
I haven't heard a response from BC yet but if WBG keeps his vote on himself I don't see why anyone else should vote for him. He will be modkilled and maybe worse for breaking the rules of the game, so there's no point to vote for him if he's not going to change his mind.
In fact, WBG you might as well just quit the game if that's how you feel. Getting yourself lynched/modkilled wastes town's time, and if you want to help town by removing yourself as a distraction, then quit and town get get on with lynching me or prp or whatever.
bet you a 5er he wont do it.
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On August 05 2012 06:07 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:48 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like". Just finished reading it. So you're thinking about this wrong. wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid. So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze. I understand where you are coming from, and if that's general town consensus then maybe it is best if WBG died so we clear up the air. I would disagree with that but that doesn't accomplish anything, namely getting the lynch I want in prplhz or talismania. So between you and me let's talk D2 lynch. talismania has outed Toad's masons (and I don't think the Toad claimed them prior), and has called out a potential mason tie between me and countdropula. Do you find him guilty of scum on those grounds? And thoughts on prplhz' general play thus far.
lol how could I have outed his masons if I didn't know they exist? Toad posted "the two people who masoned me..." and that's how I knew. Who's paying attention to the thread, hmm? :-)
also, will you state for the record that dropula and you are not mason-linked? Because it seems like a plausible reason for why he ninja-voted me at the timing that he did, without EVER MENTIONING MY NAME ONCE IN THE THREAD.
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On August 05 2012 06:24 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 06:24 talismania wrote:
haven't read pg 31 yet but wanted to interject something quickly
I haven't heard a response from BC yet but if WBG keeps his vote on himself I don't see why anyone else should vote for him. He will be modkilled and maybe worse for breaking the rules of the game, so there's no point to vote for him if he's not going to change his mind.
In fact, WBG you might as well just quit the game if that's how you feel. Getting yourself lynched/modkilled wastes town's time, and if you want to help town by removing yourself as a distraction, then quit and town get get on with lynching me or prp or whatever. bet you a 5er he wont do it.
Yeah I don't think he'll quit either. He IS breaking the rules right now and we need a word from our host to clarify how that is going to be handled. WBG I'm sure didn't know that rule was different this game, but if he's going to get a 3-game ban for this then I imagine he should feel compelled to put his vote elsewhere.
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wat? the guys I'm in chat with are outed somewhere? Where? Did I miss something?
Or was it just about Talis saying "yeah figured you got masoned" ?
If he mentioned a name somewhere it's probably wrong because I can't remember something lol
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On August 05 2012 06:18 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:48 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 05:36 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote:On August 05 2012 04:53 strongandbig wrote:On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like". Just finished reading it. So you're thinking about this wrong. wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid. So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze. Could you guys also please look at the "fight" where i try really hard to actually do stuff and he insults me about 100 times.
It goes back to "why would scum WBG do what he did?" Because you say that outing masons is completely anti-town and disagree with what he did. However, this isn't absolute truth as logic is, it is a camp of thought, something like "masons are valuable town resources and should be treated with same respect / care as other traditional blues". His camp of thought is "outing masons is better as a reasonable way to confirm the alignment of the mason, hinder scum use of masons and force them to make subpar shots".
The issue is how valuable do you think a mason is. More than a cop? Less than a medic? There isn't a clearcut answer, and trying to come to a consensus inside a game is futile and unproductive. He outted 2 masons without asking them because asking beforehand defeats the whole purpose. Through it we now have varying degrees of town-reads on you and VE. That's a town motive - get more accurate reads on town. You can dispute how it wasn't worth outting a blue, but first you would have to convince everyone that what he did was egregious and utmost scummy, and then you would have to convince us that WBG knew this and chose the "inferior" path and therefore what he did was scummy.
Because I think what he did was fine. Am I supporting a scummy thought? I don't think so. It's just different. Several of us (me, Toad, VE) have moved on with varying opinions on WBG. I ask you to do the same. Consider prplhz and talismania. If you still think WBG is scum that's fine, but let's focus as a town and get some discussion on prplhz and talismania, because regardless of today's lynch they are serious contenders for d2 lynch.
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On August 05 2012 06:32 Toadesstern wrote:
wat? the guys I'm in chat with are outed somewhere? Where? Did I miss something?
Or was it just about Talis saying "yeah figured you got masoned" ?
If he mentioned a name somewhere it's probably wrong because I can't remember something lol
No names, but the fact that he is drawing attention to that you got masoned, when I have no recollection of you saying that (if you did then I missed it). It's like seeing someone act like detective and pointing it out to everyone in thread.
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I'm on board with a prplhz lynch. Like others have already posted, he's asking too many questions and not providing any reads of his own. I don't really count his vote on SlOosh a read.
On August 04 2012 02:10 prplhz wrote:
@Toadesstern My posting should be self explanatory. There was no secret plan, Glasse was being scummy. That said, I'm willing to let him go for now after his latest post explaining his wherebugsgo read. If you still have problems then flesh them out.
##Unvote Glasse
slOosh absolutely needs to post. He posted elsewhere on this forum while this game was going on (like 12 hours ago) so he has absolutely no excuse. In Normal Mini Mafia II his first post was just a single vote with no explanation, how long could it take for him to write a post like that just to let us know that he's alive?
##Vote slOosh
Makes out his vote as a pressure vote to get SlOosh posting, then posts an excuse not to post.
On August 05 2012 00:46 prplhz wrote:
I'm like really hungover and I can't read anything right now. wherebugsgo looks townie enough though and I don't want to lynch him. grush57 lynch looks like an okay lynch.
I'm okay with making this happen.
##Vote prplhz
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EPT
