EPTI Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia - Page 37
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On July 14 2012 13:31 DropBear wrote: Oh wow how did I get so many votes? Sorry Vivax, but you did meander around a lot. I'm not keen on posting reads at night, too many WIFOM possibilities. I don't expect to be shot anyway due to the whole nearly getting lynched thing so I'll see the survivors in the morning. Very curious to see how this turns out. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Check PMs to see if you were roleblocked. I was not. Only 1 kill so probably no SK. I guess this is good news. I've been pretty busy but I'll be turning my full attention to the game 3 or 4 hours from now. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Speculation, ignore this if you want] + Hmm...okay there have been 2 VT's flipped, and we could (not definitive) claim that there is no SK. Taking the C9++ thing into account, if there are 2 more VTs (the T's in the setup) it's likely there are only 2 scum in this game. I doubt ALL VTs were the ones that already flipped, I guess its likely there are 2 more. I.E it's likely there are only 2 scum and no SK talismania, do you have anything to say about what I said about you earlier? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
I think you were wrong about one thing - I did comment on your setup posts in my big impressions post. The rest I kinda agree with. I honestly felt great about dropbear for the reasons I posted and because I smelled a bandwagon on me forming. Then milton and austin jumped off far too fast and I felt rather unsure of what was happening. Marv tempted me to jump off on austin but I felt like the majority would be easier on dropbear. At the same time risen took his chains off and went crazy. I liked the story he told with his case on vivax but none of that fit with my read on dropbear. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
on the setup, I just re-read the wiki and you're not right about the Ts, Ts determine scum numbers. VT numbers are just whoever is left after assigning the rest of the roles I think | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
I don't think you understand how C9++ works From what I understand, there can be as many as 7 VT's and still have 3 mafia and no SK. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
WoF - No spreadsheet/list easily visible and I'm lazy. I think no sk. Believe he's tweaked system since then. Emergency - 5 vts, 3 scum, sk, 4 blues Movie mini - 6 vts, 3 scum, sk, 3 blues It's NOT C9++. It's different. It's different enough that you can't extrapolate from C9++. Stop. You're speculating a 4 VT, 2 scum, 9 blue setup? How would that ever be balanced? It's so ridiculously far from balanced that it's not worth speculating about Bugs's system right now. He tends to use less 1-shot roles (except for vigis), he said less masons and less/no ICs, and we know his scum rolls are different. But without specifics from him, we can't really figure out or game the setup and shouldn't be trying. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I'll consider the implications of the marv kill and see what other reads I can make when I get home. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 15 2012 07:56 sciberbia wrote: @gonzaw I don't think you understand how C9++ works From what I understand, there can be as many as 7 VT's and still have 3 mafia and no SK. I think I got it wrong and it was 4 more VTs rather than 2 VTs so ignore that. Actually fuck I derped with that as well disregard it. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
@solstice: Apart from Risen and Milton from yesterday what are your opinions on other players you may find scummy? Anything changed since then? What about Risen's aggressivity and high activity? (if you can read my posts these last few pages about my thoughts on Risen and comment on him taking that into account). What are your thoughts on S&B and talis? @talis: On July 15 2012 07:53 talismania wrote: yeah for sure I think you were wrong about one thing - I did comment on your setup posts in my big impressions post. The rest I kinda agree with. I honestly felt great about dropbear for the reasons I posted and because I smelled a bandwagon on me forming. Then milton and austin jumped off far too fast and I felt rather unsure of what was happening. Marv tempted me to jump off on austin but I felt like the majority would be easier on dropbear. At the same time risen took his chains off and went crazy. I liked the story he told with his case on vivax but none of that fit with my read on dropbear. So what now? What will you do now? Will you still go against Dropbear? Do you have any thoughts on someone else that could be scum? I expect some serious explanation from Mattchew. Like, I thought he was town but what you did made no fucking sense I'm contemplating lynching you just because of it (specially since you went AFK all night just to make a stupid drunk post as well). I'm wary of Dropbear as well, but I don't really know what to think of him. His vote on Vivax was very bad, and him considering MIlton as almost confirmed town as well. Hmm, but like some people (I think marv) said, the "in-your-face" attitude of his may not correspond to him being scum, and his vote on Vivax and him disappearing may mean derp town. However it's still worrying how long he has been without contributing (since like half of D1 or something). Keirathi, you too. I started to get a town feeling off you because of some little things you did, but this intermittent "ask guys stuff but not do anything myself" thing you are doing ever since late D1 doesn't convince me at all. I'd like people to come in and state what they want this D2 (i.e who they want to lynch, which player they want more info from, stuff like that). If not we'll be like last day where it was 5 hours before the deadline and nobody had any idea of what to do. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 15 2012 09:50 gonzaw wrote: I'd like people to come in and state what they want this D2 (i.e who they want to lynch, which player they want more info from, stuff like that). If not we'll be like last day where it was 5 hours before the deadline and nobody had any idea of what to do. (1) not have gonzaw speculate about setup (2) lynch scum (3) currently would most like to lynch matt/talis, perhaps drop/solstice as other options (4) would like more info from ... dear lord, everyone? Just some thoughts: I haven't looked much at strongandbig. He hasn't really stood out in my head this game. Going to go poke around him. If any non-gonzaws find him scummy, please speak up. Milton and keirathi, can you give us one town read and one scum read other than dropbear, with some reasoning? Milton's last few posts are really dropbear focused, keirathi's somewhat so, would like to see more. dropbear, what are your thoughts on risen now? When I asked for specifics yesterday, half of your reasoning was that he suspected vivax, who was scum. Well, vivax is town now and risen has a lot more activity. so, thoughts on risen. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
In gonzaw's first big accusation post, he puts both you and I as scum, then votes me. You found my post scummy, were willing to consolidate on me. Now you're finding gonzaw scummy. Is your read stronger on one of us than the other? You think we're buddies and I was getting bussed? Could you give your thoughts on sciberbia? I notice you don't mention him at all in your filter. You said you couldn't read talismania and didn't trust your ability to read him. Can you tell us 2 things you find scummy about him and 2 things you find townie? | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I spent 4 hours last night in the wee hours of the morning reading filters. I ended up with a lot of town reads and not much else, it was really frustrating. Day 1 in general was pretty frustrating, I think for all of us. I'm here now and it's past time I gave the content I promised. I'll be reading and writing over the next 4-5 hours and will post following that. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On July 15 2012 07:34 sciberbia wrote: I've been pretty busy but I'll be turning my full attention to the game 3 or 4 hours from now. change of plans. Playing monobattles for a couple hours now. But I plan to go through every filter afterwards and reevaluate. You can expect some posts from me in like 4-8 hours. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On July 13 2012 12:16 gonzaw wrote: I get the feeling Keirath is more likely scum. Like Matt said his reads seemed "forced", in the way that they weren't much reads at all. At least S&B's read, where Kei calls him suspicious but townie at the same time (and calls him suspicious for some bad reasons I think). He seems fixated on "meta" somehow, thinking all of us are using "meta" to catch scum (we are not). His defense of Milkton seemed out of place as well (like it came out of nowhere and he defended him just because of "meta" again, hell I don't even know why he's defending him). Like said before his posts are too verbose, but trying to blend in IMO. He also spends quite time just defending himself which I don't particularly like (he could have been pushing for other reads at that time). Let's go with this, but I'd be happy with a switch on Dropbear to be honest (hmm, I think S&B could be scum as well, but I'll wait till he comes back) ##Unvote: austinmcc ##Vote: Keirath On July 14 2012 02:49 gonzaw wrote: I agree with marv that Keirath has not been involved in anything since a long time. I did notice some "townie" stuff he might have done (calling Dropbear out for calling him town, coming out of nowhere to defend Milton); but I get a more "noob scum" feel from the rest of his post (differently than other players like solstice for instance, where I get a "noob town" feel from their post but may have done some little "scummy" stuff), so I don't really take those into account. Hmm, I think I'll keep my vote on Keirath for now, him doing nothing since posting those reads like a day ago doesn't convince me to unvote him. @gonzaw I just noticed this contradiction while reading through filters. Keirathi's defense of Milton was originally a scummy point in your eyes but suddenly changed to a townie point. There was no other discussion of Keirathi's defense of Milton in between your two posts. Care to explain the contradiction? | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I don't like early stuff he posted on Marv, like at all. It was a lot of garbage to say one simple thing: Marv is dangerous as scum, so I will be watching. What is the purpose of all this...saying it in the first place and all the back and forth? If you are really worried about a player being scum with no evidence to go off of, why the heck would you announce to the thread that you are paying this person special attention? Just keep it to yourself and do it, and reap the potential rewards. It's mainly because of this though: On July 14 2012 04:50 strongandbig wrote: i was leaning townie on risen because of his trolovote on vivek, it seemed town - but now that i reread his filter there are a few things that give me pause. specifically, his "i hunt for whole scum teams" thing is pretty turr'ble - he says "it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team", which seems to be missing the point of scumhunting as a townie. i think a townie would be talking about "easy to find scum" not "easy to make cases". i also dont like how focused he is on defending himself by making a case on someone else instead of actually answering the cases against him. that said, I don't think that his inactivity makes him scummy, since he could just have lurked if he was lurky scum instead of promising future activity. He was just in a game with risen where he flipped town, and exhibited the exact same behaviors he is finding scummy here. I know that he knows that Risen likes to throw out whole scumteams as town, and rely on connections between scum teammates. Finding him suspicious for those reasons this game makes me think he is scum. austinmcc: I'm changing my mind. Honestly, this: On July 14 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Seriously? Strongest read: vivax (but apparently he's allllways scummy to austin), but imma vote s0Lstice. They don't write sitcoms this good, folks. So yea, like Risen, I don't like how I garner the vote instead of Vivax or Risen. I don't like how he said he would consolidate on Risen, when his reasoning for going back from town read to scum read is his transition from inactivity to 5 scum reads and an alternate. I don't like this because I know he has looked at town games where Risen has shown exactly this same behavior as town. Have a look: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 06:04 austinmcc wrote: Milton's post is fluffy but as people keep noting every time he comes up, he said he'd be gone for 12-24 hours before the game started: No read on him yet. Here were my earlier thoughts on Risen: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 01:31 austinmcc wrote: I'm more interested in Risen though. Need to read him and see if he actually doesn't have scumreads early, but does that sit alright with people? My D1 reads are AWFUL, but I still have them. How do you read the game as town and not have scumreads? Anyway, Risen's filter is a lot of talking about how he's going to play this game. Which is helpful, lets us know his plan and can explain away some differences in behavior. But it's basically filler about oneself. Early interaction with Gonzaw, which ends with this: When he speaks about DropBear later, we get: He could be scum bussing a scumbuddy. He could be scum calling out town. He's probably a townie. He's a townie but I don't like what he's doing. A lot of filter, but nothing really said. Dunno. Being wrong as a townie is plenty forgiveable. It's going to happen, especially on the early days. But not scumhunting, or not having reads until later in the game, isn't helpful to town at all. Even if you don't trust your reads early as much as your reads late, you've got to contribute. Apart from just not having contributed much except the discussions concerning Gonzaw and DropBear, neither of whom he has any strong feelings on, it just doesn't feel like Risen has done anything this game despite having a lot of posts. Hasn't really been activity since then, so my read is roughly the same. I don't like that a lot of his filter is about how he's going to play this game, with the rest being non-reads and his statement that he doesn't like to make reads early. I still don't know what to make of the statement about not liking to make reads early. It doesn't fully correspond with past games. I said I'd go back and look, and I did. SSB:+ Show Spoiler + On July 03 2012 04:26 Risen wrote: How can you be agreeing with this? iGrok you've hosted this before I feel like your giant cred post at the very beginning was an attempt to make everyone confirm you as town right off the bat, but as someone coming in late to the party I think your behavior is very scummy and I don't think someone who knew how this game worked would suggest your plan. We should be minimizing town stock loss. What do you mean "if the scum don't follow us it's clear who they are". Yeah no shit, this plan works out perfect for them why wouldn't "they" follow it. The more I think about it the more I KNOW you wouldn't post some stupid idea like this as town. Add to this your removal of two people from the item position list? What the heck man. All you've done by removing two people from the item list is make it so mafia has a better chance of getting an item. Want to minimize mafia chance of item while maximizing town chance so we're not double stacking? Then have us go down the list in numerical order and say that's left, bottom left, center, etc. Same for left, center, right on the position discussion. I'm going to be voting iGrok for lynch at this point. On July 03 2012 07:02 Risen wrote: Don't post in big caps. I was wrong on that, cool. Fact remains we have a smaller buffer. No need to shout. I'm almost 100% iGrok is scum. He doesn't get heated like this usually. Within the first day of SSB, he's decided two players are scum. However, his Cephiro read DOES match up with what he said this game, that he likes connection cases, because he finds Cephiro scummy based on his finding iGrok scummy Area 53: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote: I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too. On April 23 2012 05:33 Risen wrote: Honestly johnnywup is my biggest scumread atm Pac. I have no idea why he thinks forwarding another lynch candidate at the last second is a good idea, and it just shits up the thread. Do we take the case against him seriously? Do we try and organize everyone to swap their votes over to zeph even though no one else has mentioned zeph as a serious candidate thus far? We can't do that, we don't have the time. I know I was against it before, but I don't see how marvel could be pushing a lynch on VE right now. We can't lynch our claimed JK. It's been stated in the thread but I'll state it again. You don't lynch a claimed doctor, and we shouldn't lynch the closest thing we have to a doctor. Is it possible VE is lying? Yup. He might be lying and be a vigi, or a tracker, or scum, or vanilla. Doesn't matter. The only shitty thing is that the person who is jailed doesn't know they were jailed, so I don't know how to confirm his claim. Regardless, a vote on VE is stupid. It's just like everyone who voted for me when I claimed a guaranteed sane detective with a red check. Only an idiot would vote for said blue unless it was LYLO. It's applicable here. We can't lynch someone who claims such a powerful blue role right now. Is it a shitty claim? Yeah. I don't think it was smart, but we have to roll with it now that it's in the open. Any trackers watch him, I guess. I'm voting marvel. Pre-EBWOP I just looked at the voting thread prior to hitting post. What the hell is going on? How can you lynch a claimed blue? This is so stupid. If need be I'll vote BM b/c I'm all for lynching someone who's being useless, but for now my vote is resting on marvel. ##vote marvellosity On April 23 2012 06:45 Risen wrote: Risen was scum this game, threw around a good number of votes in thread but not as many actual reads as above. Again, focused heavily on connections like who was voting for VE or who found him scummy after the "Risen is scum" idea was proposedWhat kind of stupid shit is this? By request of jubjub Pac I'll respond. Wishy washy? What the hell do you want from me not even a day into the game? How the hell could ANYONE have true feelings of someone being scum that early on. You can have policies that guide you, such as kill every idiot you see, like anyone on VE or lynch lurkers like BM, but you can't possibly have feelings of people being scummy that early on. Only people who are atrocious at this game would take that point seriously. Oh look, we have pac taking it seriously. I'm so shocked. You say this posting looks like Toad from LI? Awesome. I'm not Toad. Also, where do you get me being SUBMISSIVE to layabout. The guy was playing like an idiot and I called him out on it. If you count me apologizing for cursing as being "submissive" then you need to get your head checked. How can you go from me voting layabout to trying to get approval from him. Stupidity at it's finest. BUT Pac wants me to address this piece of shit case so lets keep going. On to your little bullets. 1) I've been busy as all hell, but I've been trying to come in and read and post instead of lurk. Screw it, I should have just lurked. You're right, posting in the thread is anti-town. My bad, I was wrong. I'll stop posting. 2) Not taking a solid stance? I SAID DONT DIRECT BLUES. IT IS BAD. How much more solid does it get? What do I have to do to make it more solid? 3) A flimsy vote on layabout? You right... because votes before a day has passed in the game are going to be super solid. Oh wait. They're not. Only an idiot or scum would try and say something like this. I'm leaning idiot because at least your vote isn't with the derps on VE. 4) I like how you call me passive and then point number 4 is saying I'm being too aggressive. This case is air tight guys, let's all get on the Risen choo choo. Right Janaan? 5) People don't have lives my b I always forget about that. I wasn't supposed to head back to Vegas until next weekend and when I signed up for this game it didn't matter anyways. It took two years to start, though, and I've only been able to read the thread from my phone. Now I'm able to type on a keyboard and tear this horrid case to shreds. I'll sum this case for all you dolts voting on me. Risen isn't playing like his town play usually is (but lets not link any of Risen's filters and quote anything from previous games, lets just SAY that's how it is and pray people don't actually check his filters.) Wow. Slam dunk case Paq, glad I took the time to respond to it. Why are you on me again? I don't have much time, I'm driving back to Flagstaff very shortly. I'm going to cut all this nonsense short and post cases against every person on VE. They're all idiots and/or scum who should be killed. GoT:+ Show Spoiler + On March 23 2012 06:01 Risen wrote: Everything about this post screams emotional overreaction to being voted with something that is clearly not a serious vote. For reasons I can't put my finger on, I get the feeling from this post that Acro is either horrible, horrible town, or trying to just talk with mattchew so they can generate discussion that looks pro-town. Makes me feel like Acro and mattchew are both scum. More proof of my earlier feeling. Even more... Entire post is about how he wants to lynch Mattchew... but the last line is telling. He's clearly giving himself an out for when he decides miraculously not to vote mattchew because "someone more scummy" has come along. A legitimate post calling out a lurker. My feeling: [r]scum[/r] He's the most scummy read I have thus far. On March 23 2012 06:04 Risen wrote: Most of my problems with Mattchew have been summed up in my post on acro. He's either town who is seriously focusing on one guy who other people find suspicious (why should he spend so much time refuting what this guy is saying), or he's scum and coasting by arguing with another mafia guy. Neutral read for now. Scumread on Acro, although a good ways into D1. Finds Mattchew possibly scummy based on his interactions with Acro. I stopped at that point, although there's a little more GoT D1 and LI. But he DOES look like he makes a lot of his reads, even D1, off of connections. The game in which he was most active with voting, he was scum. For now I still find his filter this game odd, because it's quite a few posts to not have reads, but past games make me less uneasy about his statement that he doesn't like to scumhunt early, it's not just making an excuse to coast for a day or two this time around. Right now I'm leaning town on him, because of his response at the end of SSB64. In the scum QT there, Acro and Cephiro talk about how to deal with him, and note that "if he learned to control his rage and angst i think he'd be a really good player." So for now, I think that while his filter seems off, it's off because he's trying to actually do that. I think that also addresses some of your worries here because the kind attitude and posting style are perhaps an adjustment from the norm. Oh, I've been ninjaed by your other post. I'll respond to that shortly. I don't like how his posts feel. They are always long, but I generally find a few nuggets of really useful and solid logic in them. I'm not seeing that from him this game. I don't like his early attack on Talismania. We are here to lynch scum, and his huge discourse basically came to the conclusion that the plan was anti-town/unhelpful. I don't see the explanation for the jump from that conclusion to scum....and it's needed. There is town motivation for Talis doing what he did, so not liking the plan should not be enough to garner a vote. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 15 2012 14:48 sciberbia wrote: @gonzaw I just noticed this contradiction while reading through filters. Keirathi's defense of Milton was originally a scummy point in your eyes but suddenly changed to a townie point. There was no other discussion of Keirathi's defense of Milton in between your two posts. Care to explain the contradiction? I guess the easiest way to explain that is a little bit of confirmation bias (in both ways, whether when I thought he was scum or whether when I thought he was town, or I started to doubt him being scum) The hardest way to explain it is by having it be a "null tell, one that could be done by both scum and town" and me thinking one or the other when reading him. To be honest, when I see that kind of "townie stuff" I try to see if it would be an "absurd play" as scum, and if it was (or wasn't) whether it could push a scum agenda or not. That thing Keirathi did was "slightly" an "absurd play" if he was scum (but not that much), but I struggled to think of scum motivation behind it (besides other "absurd plays" other scum do in other games, like uber bussing or "Risen's LIII play", etc) since it may have not been that obvious, but I guess it's not that alignment telling (though kind of odd anyways). Fuck, sorry for the above fluff  Yeah I'm a little drunk (OMG, DOES THAT MEAN I'M TOWN? YES THAT FUCKING HEURISTIC WORKS!!!? YAY!!) (Actually no I could have posted drunk as scum as well so IGNORE IT. Stay Pro-town Liquidia) Yo S&B before doing anything I'd like to see what you think about solstice here accusing you, and what you think of said accusation. Also be less of a derp and "ffffurfurfrustrated fuck" and be more chill if not I won't be able to read you. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
So here's the thing I posted that made solstice suspicious of me: I said: On July 14 2012 04:50 strongandbig wrote: i was leaning townie on risen because of his trolovote on vivek, it seemed town - but now that i reread his filter there are a few things that give me pause. specifically, his "i hunt for whole scum teams" thing is pretty turr'ble - he says "it's easier for me to make cases when I consider people as members of a team", which seems to be missing the point of scumhunting as a townie. i think a townie would be talking about "easy to find scum" not "easy to make cases". i also dont like how focused he is on defending himself by making a case on someone else instead of actually answering the cases against him. that said, I don't think that his inactivity makes him scummy, since he could just have lurked if he was lurky scum instead of promising future activity. His point boils down to "this is scummy because S&B just played a game with risen where he was town, and he only did connection scumhunting there too!" He ignores two out of the three arguments I make in that paragraph. I present three reasons for finding Risen suspicious: 1) He only uses connection scumhunting, which is a bad way to play as town. 2) The specific phrasing, "easier to make cases" could imply that his goal is subconsciously to make a good case and not to find scum. 3) His defense is not to go through and answer the points against him; instead he just defends himself by making a case on someone else. + Show Spoiler [aside about my posting - Gonzaw please…] + You'll notice that the way I just phrased those points is a lot more articulate than the way I initially phrased them. I'm probably always going to be quite inarticulate during and after work hours CET on weekdays. I work in an open room with the other grad students on my experiment, so it's hard for me to sneak more than a few seconds to post. I also work between eleven and thirteen hours a day including the commute, so I'm tired as fuck when I get home; so far I've been putting what little energy I do have to spend on mafia into thinking and not into posting. S0lstice only talks about one of those three points. On that point, he's right that Risen did do the "connection scumhunting" thing as town in MTG, but I don't remember Risen coming out and saying it like that; IIRC it was just more of a pattern and not a policy. (Although I could be wrong about that.) So he is correct that this is the weakest of my three points about Risen. As for why solstice ignores the other two points, there's two options: 1) He either failed at reading my post or didn't care enough to try, and really thought that was the only part of my FoS on Risen, or 2) He was trying to manufacture a case on me, so he focused on the weakest point of my FoS and called me scum for it. S0lstice, let's hear something from you about this: 1) Now that I've clarified the other two reasons for my FoS, do you still think that post makes me scum? 2) On substance what do you think about those two points about Risen? As to the actual substance of the case on Risen: I need to read his filter again before I decide whether he's scum or not. I think that all his "countdown to vivax's death" posts were weird and I need to decide if I think they make him scummy or townie. | ||
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