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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 14 2012 00:55 strongandbig wrote:
As for your question I'm at work still so no deep thoughts yet - I'm inclined to give Risen the benefit of the doubt for a few days at least, since he has a good motivation to try to change his town play. Nothing on dropbear right now I'll try and reread his filter later.
I think this is a terrible, lazy way to think.
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For fucks sake could you stop being so dramatic? I'm the only one hinting at using it to gain info not "people".
Also I said I won't discuss it anymore and just keep it private until something interesting comes up, nothing else
*sigh* I hate it when people blow things out of proportion just to "appear pro-town"
Also don't answer in WBG's behalf. He explicitly said he'd release the "determiner" at some point (after the tweeks and shit), I was just wondering if he'd release it now (so the whole thing I've been talking about would be more useful this game)
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No, I will not be releasing the randomizer any time soon. Ultimately I may not release it at all.
However, as with most of my setups the determiner itself will be revealed in the role spreadsheet (though I don't remember if I included it for the earlier ones)
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Wtf is all this talk about C9. Looks like a nice distraction from scumhunting.
What do you think of the points I've made against Milton? And as opposed to him (cause Milton accuses him), what do you think of Talismania?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 13 2012 17:07 Miltonkram wrote:
You're right on one thing, I should familiarize myself with talismania's meta, which is something I will do now that I've gotten home from work. (They called me in on my day off, the bastards)
Just a quick point. In no way does a player following their town meta absolve them of suspicion, but it does push them closer to a null read than a scum read. I'm looking for a player pushing a scummy agenda. Neither austin or Keirathi fit that bill to me. Talismania does. It's as simple as that.
In addition to my earlier question to Miltonkram, I'd like this expanded on also
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hokay so
DropBear
I think he is scum for two reasons.
1) The timing with which he bashes my plan. Everyone else had already bashed it. If you look at that post, what possible purpose does it serve? It's not adding anything to the discussion, it's just prolonging it unnecessarily.
On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote:This is silly. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote:
pardon me for some half-assed musing:
since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). This isn't going to happen and would just waste time.
On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway.
2) Weird tone. He was an aggressive player when I played with him last, but didn't get feisty (the "angry koala" as acrofales dubbed him) until he was threatened with a lynch. He's been ornery and disruptive this entire game and I can't figure out why. Plus when he was angry before, it was righteous anger. This feels like sarcastic, trollish ribbing. Examples below:
On July 12 2012 15:00 DropBear wrote:Hello everyone. I strongly disagree with town roleblocker being forced to claim, let alone not using their power. Having been one in past games that actually managed to block mafia KP I can testify to the usefulness of using this power. With the added possibility of jailkeeper and mafia roleblocker any claim could be complete bogus anyway and would be very difficult to verify. If you are town roleblocker do not claim!
One thing I would like to say about how we go about things, please don't overpost. Say what you need to say and shut up. Be concise and clear. This does not mean don't post, nor does it mean don't post often. It means don't post crap that doesn't need to be said. Stuff like this isn't necessary and clogs up your filter, please don't do it.
On July 12 2012 18:09 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 16:10 gonzaw wrote:On July 12 2012 15:38 Keirathi wrote:On July 12 2012 15:14 DropBear wrote:On July 12 2012 15:06 Keirathi wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying roleblocker should never, under any circumstances, use their power.
But it needs to be used with extreme caution because you probably have a higher chance (or at the very least, equal) of blocking a town blue than blocking a KP if you just pick randomly.
There are certainly situations where it can be a useful power, of course, but its much safer just to not use it until you have good, solid reads. People have in fact said that it shouldn't be used period. Gonzawtalismania Then I completely disagree with them. I'm still not positive they mean that there is a never a situation where RB can be useful, but if they think that then I encourage them to think harder. Obviously there are exceptions. If there are 2 "very obvious scum" or something (and only 2 scum remain) then he can try to RB those. But him trying to RB at random on N1 or even on N2 seems too risky to me, specially if that guys doesn't have very good reads (and isn't lucky). @Dropbear: I don't like your attitude. You just busted into the thread, basically discredited everything everybody said, and discredited every accusation anybody else has done, and that's it. All the while acting like you own the place or something (without actually taking charge). However you are not progressing at all, you are just complaining. Actually lets get the ball rolling (this thread is VERY silent so far, hopefully this changes that): ##Vote: Dropbear You're just mad that I think your idea on the roleblocker is bad and your cases are bad.
On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said? I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy?
On July 13 2012 17:01 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 09:07 Vivax wrote:I'm not comfortable with a tali lynch. Comparing filters I found Miltonkrams filter to be fairly empty and he targetted the easy target. He posted 1. A list of his games to make himself available for a metacheck. 2. He comments on Talis plan being bad, and that being reason enough to be scummy. My impression of talis plan gone bad so far: It's a magnet for players with no/bad cases to have a reason to post something accusing. The downside is that it might have triggered policy discussion and a lot of chaos, while promising a lot of clarity by forcing players to take a hard stance, so talis plan was risky from a town perspective, and I'd leave it at that. He said it worked in bastard mafia, let's leave it at that: It won't be used here. 3. On July 13 2012 06:35 Miltonkram wrote:
I don't find the fact that he came up with the plan scummy, I find the amount of time he's spent defending himself from the fallout of his plan scummy. I think he's spent 3 or 4 posts just defending himself.
Defending oneself isn't scummy. If it's really the only thing you do, then yes, but Milton already knows that it's not the only thing tali is doing: On July 13 2012 06:48 Miltonkram wrote:
EBWOP: I didn't notice that talismania was actually putting a fair amount of pressure on austinmcc. I still find the amount of time he's spent talking about his proposal scummy, but he has put a small amount of pressure on players. still seems to firmly believe in a scum tali. He doesn't have any other reads. He comments on Keirathi and sciberbia being unreadable to him. I'll go for Milton if I don't see some arguments to his defense. I'll defend Milton for you  He started late so hasn't posted as much. We knew that was happening before the games started. Your point 1 directly helps people get a read on him. This is extremely positive town play. In your point 2, you say how the plan allows pointless posting and how that doesn't help town, but then turn around and lambast Milton for pointing this out. Contradiction much? There is no real pressure from talismania on austin at all. Milton is right, talismania IS only defending the plan and not committing to accusations. Three reads is enough for day 1, no? Posting your read on every single person is just clutter. You should be less obvious in defending your buddy. SCUM TEAM
Vivax
talismania
(the entire tone of the above post)^
What makes the timing of that post and his tone scummy? Well both are unnecessary, both are disruptive and create an anti-town atmosphere, and, in the case of this response to my plan, it is essentially just an excuse to add filler to his filter. Look like contributing without actually contributing.
He's also had a relatively narrow focus, only looking at vivax and me. And really he was only looking at vivax, but then somehow in his last post I got shoehorned into the picture, perhaps to give him cover to vote for me later on.
austinmcc
scummy shit:
1) his first post. Ok fine - I'll give it to him that he added a bit to what mattchew and marv had said. But again it's not about that, it's about why people post and how they do it.
On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote:
Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw?
Why pile on, when you already acknowledge that it is "the general sentiment"? It's just adding filler to his filter, and padding for the other part of his post. This is classic scum stuff to try and add extra stuff to their posts so they don't get accused of doing nothing but, say, asking rambling stuff about gonzaw.
2) The other thing I've already pointed out that he hasn't really addressed. He is voting for me. He posted a 5-paragraph essay before doing so. But he never actually said I was scum. I pointed this out, he just rehashes what he already said, but never actually connects the dots and explains why he thinks all that stuff that I've done makes me scum. Combined with the timing of this accusation, it makes me think he's simply trying to start momentum for my lynch, taking off on what milkton did (and milkton, despite having bs reasoning, at least connected the dots). Austin omits that crucial step because he's not thinking like a town player. He's just thinking about who he needs to get his vote onto.
On July 13 2012 08:05 austinmcc wrote:
*snip*
(1) 90% of people hadn't already stated why it was bad. Look at Talis's little summary of people who commented. It's 7 people long, and one of them is him misinterpreting your post. That's not 90% of the thread.
(2) Again, I'm not saying why the plan was bad. I'm trying to say that he's incorrect in saying I didn't add anything. I think he's really stretching what people have said to try and make it seem like Part 2 of the plan was somehow helpful, when really it's not.
##Vote: Talismania
I don't buy this two-part plan nonsense, and I don't think it's helpful at all.
First off his points 1 and 2 are kinda bs. I'll give him that he added a little bit, and I already said way back that not as many people replied as I thought did before I went and analyzed it. It's not me twisting things when I'm freely admitting when I've exaggerated or whatever.
Secondly, it's like he's voting me because... I'm unhelpful. What?
______________________
My thoughts on everyone else:
+ Show Spoiler +Mattchew: I dub mattchew "the poker-prodder". He keeps poking and prodding people. He's ultimately a null tell for me, as he is in every game I've ever seen him in. For a second I had him on my scummy list because of his "hey are you just actively lurking" post until now when I've re-read his filter and seen him poking at everyone. I am a bit surprised he's not voting for me - I think as scum he would have done that by now especially when he called me out like he did. I also have a question for you, Mattchew: On July 12 2012 11:06 Mattchew wrote:Gonzaw's start to like every game ![[image loading]](http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/493583_o.gif) But I love his effort, just hate reading EVERYTHING he posts. Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me What ever happened to your thoughts about austin? You never mention him again in your filter after this. Risen: I agree with what solstice just said about his style. It's sort of impossible to read given his pre-game determination to change it. That said, his content has been incredibly lacking. He made his vote too early, he didn't explain it. Actually reading through his filter now he does seem really sketchy. Interested to see if and how he changes his vote today. solstice: I really like the case marv made on him, actually, but for some reason I don't know if I can move beyond a null on him. Like I think the first half of his filter is scummy (the part marv showed), the second half townie. Overall he is playing fairly relaxed, which is usually a town indicator as well. On the other hand he's also been fairly focused on just a couple players, which is a scum indicator. gonzaw: Aside from his "lol how does the setup work?" posts everything he's done screams townie to me. Like the amount of effort he's put in just seems excessive. Even I imagine myself with 100% free time I can't see myself doing that much work as scum. marvellosity: Marv. How is it possible that he posts so much but I always forget he's in the game? It's not like his posts are bad they're usually pretty on point. I've never played against him as scum so I dunno what he does then, but his filter so far looks fairly like his town filters from the games I've played with him. He tends to have a lot of targets and switch frequently, often correcting himself as town and I see that here as well. Vivax: Never played with him before. He's sort of in the solstice camp actually. First half of the filter is scummy. Especially the part where marv asked him to explain his feelings on matt and he was just like "here's filter do it yourself" LOL. On the other hand I like what he says about Milkton. On the third hand he's also playing rather focused. Null. sciberbia: Sciberbia I am your biggest fan. I love the way you post. I have no idea what your alignment is but if everyone posted like you this game would be easy. Keirathi: Well he's conditional town or conditional scum at this point. Like I think he was way too neutral in the beginning as someone else pointed out but he's also onto dropbear as I am. Milktonkram: I think his case and vote on me are bs bs bs... but incredibly random. Like I don't know why he does that as scum. I actually can't figure him out at all to be honest. strongandbig: dear god this is tiring to make lol no wonder no one ever follows my plans. Anyway. I think he's playing pretty freely. I think he was scum in space station? He was more uptight then.
##vote: DropBear
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Ehmm...is it me or does the day END IN FREAKING 5 HOURS!!!!??
Seriously people, these votes are a mess, there are 6 people with votes on them and the guy with most votes has 3 (marv will you keep your vote on solstice?).
So please people consolidate the votes unless you want:
1)A NL
2)A rushed last-minute wagon on someone (to prevent NL) that will most likely end up being town.
I already said I think Keirath is scum and should be today's lynch. But I wouldn't mind a Dropbear lynch either (because of reasons stated earlier).
In mind with S&B's recent posting I wouldn't mind his lynch either, I don't like how he sporadically comes into the thread to shit things up and doesn't seem to care about being part of any discussion.
At least I want some freaking discussion about the lynch.
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On July 14 2012 01:33 gonzaw wrote:
In mind with S&B's recent posting I wouldn't mind his lynch either, I don't like how he sporadically comes into the thread to shit things upon me.
well i wouldnt have to shit on you if you weren't posting like a toilet
i'm at work i only can come in sporadically
i'd consolidate on austin, maybe keirathi, maybe tali or derpbear, but i'd prefer to think about it a bit more first
should be home in a few hours, deadline is midnight euro time so it'll be fine
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
quick question tali - what pushes you to Dropbear rather than austin?
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 14 2012 01:32 talismania wrote:
gonzaw: Aside from his "lol how does the setup work?" posts everything he's done screams townie to me. Like the amount of effort he's put in just seems excessive. Even I imagine myself with 100% free time I can't see myself doing that much work as scum.
I'll just leave this scum filter here. Bear in mind this was a PM game, so that was merely half his effort.
I'm not saying he's scum because of it, but please do not assume he is town through effort, that's totally null alignment-wise for gonzaw.
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On July 14 2012 01:39 marvellosity wrote:
quick question tali - what pushes you to Dropbear rather than austin?
actually that is a decent question. I originally ranked them that way in my head from way back when I analyzed reactions to my posts and it sort of has stuck since then. Mmm I guess thinking it over I can't think of a fantastic reason for one over the other to be honest with you.
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On July 14 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 01:32 talismania wrote:
gonzaw: Aside from his "lol how does the setup work?" posts everything he's done screams townie to me. Like the amount of effort he's put in just seems excessive. Even I imagine myself with 100% free time I can't see myself doing that much work as scum.
I'll just leave this scum filter here. Bear in mind this was a PM game, so that was merely half his effort. I'm not saying he's scum because of it, but please do not assume he is town through effort, that's totally null alignment-wise for gonzaw.
holy shit haha. How much free time do you have gonzaw??
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@gonzaw
If you've already taken the time to assemble the votecount, could you post it?
Also, I made my stances clear last night and they haven't changed. I'd be happy lynching Keirathi or Vivax. I could tolerate a lynch on dropbear/s0Lstice/Miltonkram/Risen, but I really think that Keirathi and Vivax are more suspicious.
I'm at work till 6PM and I'm following the thread. I'm currently voting Keirathi but I'd be happy to switch to Vivax if enough people share my views on him. Unless I see any really scummy posts or convincing cases, I will vote for someone other than Keirathi/Vivax if and only if it proves necessary to prevent a NL.
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@ marvellosity
I would argue that discussion has moved along well despite the way talismania has been posting. I see where you're coming from, talismania's proposal did spark discussion. The fact that he's been so intent to keep discussing a dead topic could easily derail the thread away from scumhunting, or, in the case of his "Reaction" post, doing really bad scumhunting based off of a terrible premise.
I'm not sure what you would like expanded on in that last comment you outlined. I'm going to look through previous games talismania has played to help inform my read on him. Is there something in there that isn't clear to you?
@ s0Lstice
I was jokingly making the point that I was sheeping marvellosity. I didn't mean to say that you were.
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On July 14 2012 01:33 gonzaw wrote:
Ehmm...is it me or does the day END IN FREAKING 5 HOURS!!!!??
Seriously people, these votes are a mess, there are 6 people with votes on them and the guy with most votes has 3 (marv will you keep your vote on solstice?).
So please people consolidate the votes unless you want:
1)A NL
2)A rushed last-minute wagon on someone (to prevent NL) that will most likely end up being town.
I already said I think Keirath is scum and should be today's lynch. But I wouldn't mind a Dropbear lynch either (because of reasons stated earlier).
In mind with S&B's recent posting I wouldn't mind his lynch either, I don't like how he sporadically comes into the thread to shit things up and doesn't seem to care about being part of any discussion.
At least I want some freaking discussion about the lynch.
Is anyone else voting dropbear?
yet you want consolidation?
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woops talis posted in your style, thought that was you
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oh my bad. is your updated opinion on Talis something that will be shared before lynch time?
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EBWOP: previous post directed to milton
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 14 2012 01:56 Miltonkram wrote:
@ marvellosity
I would argue that discussion has moved along well despite the way talismania has been posting. I see where you're coming from, talismania's proposal did spark discussion. The fact that he's been so intent to keep discussing a dead topic could easily derail the thread away from scumhunting, or, in the case of his "Reaction" post, doing really bad scumhunting based off of a terrible premise.
I'm not sure what you would like expanded on in that last comment you outlined. I'm going to look through previous games talismania has played to help inform my read on him. Is there something in there that isn't clear to you?
@ s0Lstice
I was jokingly making the point that I was sheeping marvellosity. I didn't mean to say that you were.
I was more prodding for the results. Kinda important with lynch time coming up 
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Votecount
DropBear(1)
gonzaw
talismania
strongandbig(0)
Vivax
marvellosity
Vivax(2)
Risen
Vivax
Miltonkram(2)
Vivax
s0Lstice
austinmcc(0)
gonzaw
sciberbia(1)
Mattchew
talismania(2)
austinmcc
Milkontram
keirathi(3)
strongandbig
gonzaw
sciberbia
s0Lstice(1)
marvellosity
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EPT
