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This is Ver's game right? Interesting setup. Will the roles and positions be randomed? This could go so badly if scum get terrible senior management. Or worse terrible independent minions  This is going to require a lot of work from scum to be organised. Town is also going to be so confused because Scum won't be working as a normal team. There is no upwards or lateral communication. There goes scum's biggest advantage. No one to bounce ideas off. I look forward to some on the job learning. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cdbqH.jpg) Sorry BH, your skills are beyond me >< | ||
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On July 12 2012 05:44 austinmcc wrote: No paint pics. BH is scum. Someone gets it. | ||
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There is no Ace There is no Radfield There is no Palmar  | ||
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On July 13 2012 23:53 Palmar wrote: /in  | ||
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Seriously though, do we know when this will begin? | ||
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Are we proud proletariat or bourgeois kulaks? Down with the imperialist scum! Actaully a soviet theme would work well with this setup. The whole USSR was one giant bureaucracy. | ||
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On July 16 2012 14:05 Chezinu wrote: I'm mean ummm cocaine! So we're not expanding our product line then? Hmmm, this corporate stratey needs more cross-functional synergy. For the sake of compliance and maximising our opportunities, a feedback system of transparency is needed. That being said to gain traction we need to double down on incentivising our stakeholders. A dynamic process of focusing on our core competencies where we drill down to the point of no return, will calibrate our business to exceed partner expectations. Remember we can only succeed if we work together! | ||
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So introductions then. Hi I am Probulous. Who are you? | ||
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Ok since no-one seems to want to actually participate, here are some thoughts of mine of the setup. Aside from trying to kill town, the only thing that binds mafia as a team is their strategy dictated from above. From my reading this is sent during the night. Thus day 2 is going to be crucial. We should be aware of people who change reads for bad reasons or suddenly become active. Basically anyone who suddenly gains direction overnight will be a good target to poke. As for Day 1, I think participation and clarity will be extra useful because mafia now know that they are setting themselves up for difficulties in Day 2 if they pick targets Day 1. People with clear targets are going to have to work harder to change them if a different CEO strategy comes in. Thoughts? | ||
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You seem to be in a similar frame of mind as me. Thoughts on my post? When you say so we should try to create an environment that is shifting too much for that message to be useful. What exactly do you mean? | ||
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On July 16 2012 15:16 Chezinu wrote: ##Vote EchelonTee I wonder if this works... Chaos Which is exactly what we don't want. Mafia are going to be all over the place Day 1, they are in the same boat as us right now. But tomorrow they will have a goal that they can work towards. The only way we can counteract that is by holding people accountable to their Day 1 reads. If someone suddenly changes their read for no reason, it will look even more suspicious than usual. Why would a chaotic environment help? Surely the opposite, where people are clear about who they think is scum and why, is much better for finding inconsistencies. Qbert, can you explain your thoughts please? | ||
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On July 16 2012 15:32 Blazinghand wrote: @Prob: I think that's Chezinu you got quoted there. Thank you for not reading. On July 16 2012 15:09 Q-bert-Z wrote: They can only send one message a day, so we should try to create an environment that is shifting too much for that message to be useful. It was in the spoiler. That is what Chez was responding too  In any case, in this setup it seems pretty straightforwards to me. Analyze like normal, hold people to their views like normal, look for weird unsubstantiated cases like normal. There's more scum and they're less organized, but I don't see why we need to do our D1 or D2 anything different than what we typically do. Just keep an eye open for people doing shit without legit town motives and you're good to go as always. @Chezinu: Chaos bad ##vote: Chezinu Fluff and nonsense. I have never played a game with Chez but I have read his games and he is never clear. Chaos is his middle name (OK, maybe I am exaggerating) but the point being voting for him, is just dumb. It is not like he wasn't posting and your vote isn't going to make him be all clear and transparent. So Mr Blazinghand, why aren't you reading the thread and why are pushing easy targets? In addition why are you dismissing my ideas without actually commenting on them. | ||
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On July 16 2012 15:47 Blazinghand wrote: Prob I'm so far past you that I'm lapping you. You gotta keep up. And now you're dismissing me again. On July 16 2012 15:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I almost... It'd be irresponsible to call someone scum after one post.... just want to put this out there That is some Grade A carefullness, right there. Those phrases in particular are very passive. | ||
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This game is a boat. A boat full of mafia, and if we are to push the mafia off, we must rock the boat Good Qbert, how exactly do we stay on board? Lord knows it would be easier to fall in if "helped" by those we wish to drown. | ||
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On July 16 2012 15:59 Q-bert-Z wrote:As far as "holding people to their day one reads", I must say I've heard worse things, though not many. Let me ask you this...what is the probubality of our day one reads being any good? Day one reads are the worse reads we're going to get... It is not that those reads are necessarily accurate but they are something of substance to hold people to. The alternative is a wasted Day 1. A simple example would be if I found you suspicious Day 1 and the dropped all suspicion of you Day 2. In a normal game that might get brushed off but the mechanics of this setup mean that this becomes far more important. | ||
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On July 16 2012 16:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: @Probe, do my posts need more fire and brimstone? Clarity is what I seek. I understood what you were saying but your stance was kind of wishy-washy. The fact that you FOS'd him with such passive language made me think you weren't really serious about your post but it seems you were. So yeah, clarity of purpose. OK guys, work is done for the day and I am heading home. If I can be arsed I will pop on later tonight otherwise I will see in the morning. Good luck! | ||
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It turns out my ass isn't as fat as it used to be. It's great to see Palmagism are around. @Palmar, can sinani be constructive? I have played with him before where he was not. You also called for his head that game (Werewolves II if I remember correctly). The reason I ask is that despite his crazy way of posting he has at least been reasonable and consistent. He has pointed out the flaws in my argument, but hasn't gone all out on it. So despite his text flavour, how exactly has he been trolling? Compare his behaviour to one Blazinghand, who thinks the world of himself to the point that he refuses to respond to me.Your thoughts on BH? @Syllo your input would be great too! | ||
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I find it highly unlikely that mafia will be pushing strong reads day 1 given the setup. For two reasons, one they may be pushing one of their own, two they will be held accountable. So my thinking was to out to the thread so people are aware of it. Yes mafia are too but all this does is limit their options. How exactly does this help me further my agenda if I am mafia? | ||
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Your explanation makes no sense. Your defense is you wanted to align with a third party? How is that a defense? Syllogism The best way to look at this is by placing the posts in order and seeing the progression so here we go. My original post (3rd one in the thread) suggested some ideas about how we could expect this game to be different to others. The idea was to get people discussing stuff (Klicky) I then have a back and forth with QBertz about this and his posting and I clarify my intent here On July 16 2012 16:05 Probulous wrote: Then Syllo pops into the thread here, here and here before even mentioning me. When he does mention me this is his postIt is not that those reads are necessarily accurate but they are something of substance to hold people to. The alternative is a wasted Day 1. A simple example would be if I found you suspicious Day 1 and the dropped all suspicion of you Day 2. In a normal game that might get brushed off but the mechanics of this setup mean that this becomes far more important. On July 16 2012 19:09 syllogism wrote: My thoughts are that I would like to lynch you for this post. This reads like someone wanting to seem like they are contributing, but you are a smart person so you should know there is no reason to post something like this on day 1. You are basically announcing beforehand what you will consider mafia behavior and as town there is little reason to do that as you specifically want mafia to act according to your expectations. Why now? Well because right before that I wrote thisOn July 16 2012 19:03 Probulous wrote: He clearly only responded to me because I prodded him. This gives me the impression that he either didn't read my post beforehand, or he didn't think it was a big deal until someone prodded him. I mean why ignore me for so long if you think I am mafia based on my second post? Surely if you are town you want people to lynch the people you think are scum but he only mentions his target when his target asks him for his thoughts? In addition his accusation is ...@Syllo your input would be great too! My thoughts are that I would like to lynch you for this post Not that I am mafia, but that he thinks I should be lynched. It isn't guns blazing forthright determination. It is simply a soft FOS. His whole case was You are basically announcing beforehand what you will consider mafia behavior and as town there is little reason to do that as you specifically want mafia to act according to your expectations Which makes no sense from a scum agenda point of view. At least I fail to see why mafia would be pushing this line of thinking unless they planned on randomly picking someone and tunneling them. Well as we know they are more likely to pick mafia accidently in this setup than a normal setup so it is a bad idea for mafia. I asked Syllo to clarify his intent in my next postOn July 16 2012 19:13 Probulous wrote: I find it highly unlikely that mafia will be pushing strong reads day 1 given the setup. For two reasons, one they may be pushing one of their own, two they will be held accountable. So my thinking was to out to the thread so people are aware of it. Yes mafia are too but all this does is limit their options. How exactly does this help me further my agenda if I am mafia? To which I get silence. No response nothing. His entire case was that single sentence. He never commented on my other posts. I had a lot of back and forth with Qbertz, Chez and BH including a soft accusation on BH but that doesn't warrant a second look? Then when Foolishness picks up on this he responds with On July 17 2012 06:46 syllogism wrote: Foolishness you are again distorting my posts when you say I didn't "elaborate" why I thought probulous should be lynched based on his post; I explained quite clearly in the very post why his post was suspicious. What do you think about about the post? Why do you think that, if I'm mafia, I wouldn't vote for probulous? You didn't elaborate at all, even when I asked you too. I mean yes, I could be mafia and so you could just ignore me. however, it is likely I am not the only one who thought you case needed more work. In fact the distinct lack of vote from you and no real push from anyone else would suggest that it is not a strong case. So if you wanted me dead you would need to elaborate. Now to the crux of the issue. Why you would do this as mafia? Well you didn't need to vote for me. You had managed to discredit my opinion already. You know your case is weak, hence the lack of vote or follow up on it. So you settle for throwing doubt on me. This makes no sense from a town point of view. If you really thought I was mafia you would push me as a lynch, but you didn't. | ||
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On July 17 2012 08:59 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: SUP ALL *GASP* He doesn't know... | ||
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Summed up, he doesn't care. Half his posts are essentially "whatever" which is not what I want in my Marv. Compare his indifference here to his rage last game. My problem is that he was engaged with the thread in LV when he was scum so I am not sure what to make of his lack of investment in this game. I'll take a closer look and see if I find anything. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [WARNING lots of quotes] + On July 16 2012 19:19 marvellosity wrote: Meh, if one of their own did something deserving to be pushed heavily I'd be happy to do the bus. On July 16 2012 21:13 marvellosity wrote:So you're proposing a plan you admit has a lower chance of lynching mafia than analysis. Fabulous. On July 16 2012 21:20 marvellosity wrote: Why don't you share with the class, Palmar On July 16 2012 21:24 marvellosity wrote: That's because you're proposing plans with a lower chance of hitting mafia by your own admission and no apparent upsides. Carry on then On July 17 2012 06:25 marvellosity wrote: wbg is like confirmed town so whatever On July 17 2012 06:27 marvellosity wrote: Na he said he was town in bolded black instead of bolded green like he has been doing On July 17 2012 06:33 marvellosity wrote: meh whatever On July 17 2012 06:38 marvellosity wrote: well it doesn't really matter does it, i didn't think and now it's there and there's nothing i can do about it. why doesn't everyone talk about something else and what will be will be This is just WTF? On July 17 2012 06:41 marvellosity wrote: You can call Fool lots of stuff but bad is not one of them. yeah mainly i'm just gonna lurk now if i don't get modkilled. Foolishness is bad if he thinks i'm scum | ||
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On July 17 2012 09:36 VisceraEyes wrote: Factor in that if he's scum he doesn't know who his partners are. I'm trying to imagine the scenario...there are several things to consider. Firstly, we've never seen marvel as scum with no information. Like, would he act as he would as a townie? Would he act differently because he's scum regardless of not having more info? I have no idea, but his lack of concern is troubling. Do you think syllogism is scum? Your summary seemed to imply it but I want you to SAY it if you don't mind. ROFL OK then. SYLLOGISM IS SCUM I just think Kurumi is a safer lynch. | ||
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On July 17 2012 09:46 marvellosity wrote: I am still working on my difference Well since you're here. Can you provide your opinion on Syllo? | ||
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unvote Vote## Syllogism | ||
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I agree that he is undermining Sandro for no reason. It is also a really strange place to start. He pops in to doubt something that makes 0 sense to doubt and then disappears. No comment on Syllo, Foolishness, MZ, or anyone for that matter. I could get down with his lynch but I still prefer Syllo. Bugs, your thoughts on Syllo? | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:12 Chezinu wrote: ##Nuke BlazingHand Eveybody got a personal nuke, yours is fast but mine is slow! Where you get them I don't know, but everybody gots a personal nukeoooooooo!! Really? I didn't get a nuke I feel left out now >< | ||
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They're extremely wishy-washy, there's a lot of setup speculation, and his current vote was part of a bandwagon where he was merely parroting other's opinions.I'll continue to keep my eye on my other little fishes but they've been well discussed unlike rastaban who has been skirting the radar. Thoughts? (people who read the thread only please). You mean that case? What is there to say? He hasn't responded or come back to the thread. Pressure away, but the case as it stands is not worth a vote. You're essentially saying that he has been useless with a bandwagon vote. | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:33 wherebugsgo wrote: whoa, why are you speaking FOR probulous? holy shit are you scum with Probulous? Probulous never mentioned that post, he hasn't replied to it yet. Also I already elaborated on why layabout is scum in the post before that. So, #1. You're talking for someone else #2. You're not reading the thread you really are scum! Um I am not scum but yeah I have no idea why he thought I wrote anything. It was marv who questioned you. | ||
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On July 17 2012 03:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Blazinghand needs to slow the eff down. I'm pretty sure he's town bury there were 113 new replies since I last checked. BH you should support RL. Given this what do you make of this On July 17 2012 01:46 marvellosity wrote: laughable != scummy. I prefer BH's case on syllo than the one on BH It was posted right after Supersoft pointed out how BH looks green based on his rapid fire defense with some really out there logic. Hiropro and most of the people at that time thought BH was scum but Marv didn't join in the wagon. Given you think BH is town, does this alter your read on Marv? I am getting more of a townie feel from Marv since he has decided to end the lurking and actually started to contribute. | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:38 wherebugsgo wrote: oh, that's simple. This setup has most scum not knowing who the other scum are. It's in their best interest to actually look for scum, similar to a game that has multiple scum factions. Otherwise they'll just die isolated. Thus, for a person like syllo to live, we force him to find other scum for us (we know that syllo is capable of this regardless of his alignment). As long as he is unwilling to do this we threaten him with death. If he is willing to help find other scum then he's either town or he's a scum who's helping us kill his own teammates. When we have more information on how he's done this (given time) we can more effectively determine his alignment. If, at any point, there are no players scummier than him, we just kill him. Why would Syllo scum hunt for us if he believes we won't lynch him? | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:47 marvellosity wrote: Probey, I'll make it easy for you read my filter from before and then after the first time Foolishness said the nuke should have been launched at me instead I know which is why I want VE's opinion. He still has his vote on you. Given the number of other targets for lynch it seems misplaced and I want his input. Kurumi, you sir are not helping. | ||
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On July 17 2012 01:46 marvellosity wrote: laughable != scummy. I prefer BH's case on syllo than the one on BH On July 17 2012 05:22 Foolishness wrote: Syllogism is mafia. Non-committal stances, doesn't even want to defend himself. Someone needs to redirect that nuke at marvellosity. And the next time Kurumi uses the phrase "actively lurking" someone should shoot him. Note the timestamps. Foolishness's attack has nothing to do with my original point. Anyway, if you stil think marv is scum, that's fine. If you want my vote, convince me. | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:53 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm considering Prob...here's the thing. BH is known to use questionable logic regardless of alignment (like someone else I know). The rate of his posts had nothing to do with my read of him, it was mostly the effort and voracity of his posts. I'm wondering what the posts you're referring to are here Probulous, because as Kurumi pointed out posting /= contributing. Is it just that he's agreeing with your lynch choice that you're seeing him as town at this point? Because again I have to emphasize that it's entirely probable that if marv is scum then he does not know who his teammates are. Please stop refusing to factor this in, as it's a huge part of this game. I understand that he doesn't know who is scum. Mrv is not setting the world on fire but he s asking the sort of questions I am asking. He ninja'd me with responding to bugs for one. I still don't understand why syllo would suddenly cooperate if he thinks he is lynch immune. He jumped onto Syllo before he was called out, and he did so when others were jumping all over BH. These seem like townie actions to me, but you are yet to post why you think he is scum. | ||
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Can you answer my question please. Why would Syllo cooperate if he doesn't think he will get lynched? | ||
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Almost every post of yours has a mention of how you will contribute later and how terrible the thread is. | ||
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Do we even know if there is a block ability? | ||
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Still trying to get my head around this. | ||
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I don't know if it alignment indicative but it is hard for me to picture you having a read on someone and then suddenly it changes when they nuke you? | ||
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Bugs the issue I have with your case is that it rests on BH having the mental fortitude to stop and actually think about the situation. It would be awefully tempting to straight up stop a nuke heading your way. Yes waiting until confirmation from the mods would have been the best play, that or stopping Kurumi's nuke, or both. He clearly responded rashly but whether it is town rash protecting their ass, or scum rash protecting their ass, I'm not sure. As for taking Chezinu seriously, he may make crazy obfuscating posts but there is some nuggets of info in there. People troll but that doesn't mean you can't take their actions seriously. | ||
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About layabout I don't think laya was casting doubt on the claim but rather trying to get an answer from sandro (on why he wasted his ability). Here is the entirety of layabouts filter On July 17 2012 06:32 layabout wrote: If sandroba can message people why did he reveal his power after outing a single player that he could have pushed without revealing his power? On July 17 2012 07:00 layabout wrote: Sandro why did you claim that you could trick mafia into revealing themselves when you had only tricked one player? PSA: No talking to kurumi and spamming up the thread! Firstly, he assumes Sandro can send more than one message per day, or alternatively that he will live overnight. Given he has outed a scum that is highly unlikely. We all know Sandro is a deadly when on form so I would be surprised if he lives till tomorrow (he even stated as much). More damning though is that layabout didn't even bother to follow up on his question. I can understand forgetting a question here and there (it's a busy thread) but his only contribution this whole game has been to question the validity of Sandro's claim. It serves no purpose, especially that Kurumi has confirmed Sandro's claim. In addition, bugs correctly pointed out that layabout is very vocal when he is town. I played with him in Werewolves and he was killed early because he was way too calm and clear. He lurked a lot in my other game with him when we were both mafia (Wiggles Mini II). There isn't much to go on but what is there is pretty bad. I agree that Syllo is a better lynch but there is a decent case on laya. | ||
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On July 17 2012 15:29 wherebugsgo wrote: also, his claim of "ignorance" based on never playing with Chezinu (him telling me to check his history, for example) doesn't fly when people post stuff like this: From some of the earliest posts in the thread it's obvious Chezinu is not to be taken seriously. Yet BH's defense is that he took Chezinu seriously because he didn't come off as a troll (highly unbelievable) I see that and I understand where you are coming from here. I just think there is a difference between someone pushing a case on you and someone shooting a nuke at you. I have never played with Chez but if he sent a nuke my way my first thought would not be that it's fake. I'll have another read of him, and some of his older games to get a better idea. He sin't someone I get a read on easily. You didn't answer my question: what do you think of Katina? Another one I have never played with. Her spat with Mattchew is so off base. I liked her post on Foolishness's opening. To be honest I havent really had a good look at her filter. There are so many players that I have been focused on the ones I know. How would you advise me about reading VE? VE looks pretty townie to me right now. His annoyance at me prodding him about Marv seemed genuine. I know he is trying to control his rage so it fits. Plus he has been asking about people that aren't in the spotlight which is a good sign. | ||
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On July 17 2012 03:42 GGQ wrote: What? Why? What would that accomplish? How would that help us find scum? Palmar does that shit all the time. It's stupid and unhelpful but arguing about it has never changed him before and it won't now. ##vote blazinghand GGQ, can you please explain why you voted for Blazinghand without ever mentioning him before hand? This is your only post of substance which is a discreditation of MZ but you vote for BH?  | ||
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On July 18 2012 06:59 slOosh wrote: Still mulling over this austin business, because it doesn't make much sense from either alignment: Because for scum austin to boldly go against what pseudo confirmed town sandroba, he would have to have some payoff - why bother bringing so much attention to yourself? The way he focuses on sandroba's claim does look like paranoid conspiracy theorist - I cohosted LV and if memory serves he was making really elaborate (read totally wacky) speculations. Unless it was an order from a higher up (which is hard to swallow since it means someone else who knows more decided this plan of action was worth it), I'm seeing a paranoid town. I agree with this. I fail to see how Austin's action further a scum agenda at all. It is a distraction yes, but he seems to believe his bullshit. As mentioned he has a history of doing of this. Bugs, you pointed out that in LV he was looking at other targets which is true, but if that is the entire case against him, he won't get my vote. Supersoft, you've made a great case about how his play is bad but not how it pushes a scum agenda. Why is austin doing this? Sandroba is never going to get lynched today. This situation reminds me of the VE/marv situation in Movie Star Mini Mafia. Austin may be scum but he may also be paranoid town. Syllo does not seem to be our lynch today. There are too many senior players not voting for him, so I will unvote. I still don't like his play but if town thinks he should be given time, then so be it. It's consolidation time. ##unvote @Palmar, you made a point that mafia players will be self-centered in this setup and that would make them focused on survival. How is this any different than a townie? I for one don't plan on getting lynched because that would be a misslynch. So if I was a target, I would also be focused on survival. Can you explain your point again? | ||
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On July 18 2012 08:31 gonzaw wrote: About austin: I don't get why he's obsessing so much with sandro's role. I'd understand having that first suspicion if he actually believed something was wrong (like in that post I mentioned), but he spent posts and posts and posts dealing with sandro's claim and ability and it clogged up the thread too much. I don't get why he'd do that as town, specially since his doubts of sandro's claim were dealt with by other people, he didn't need to keep cluttering things up with it. There are little things that don't make me confident in him being scum, like some of the confidence he seems to have in his posts, and the fact that he "overposts" like this as town. I'm not that confident in lynching him, but I think he has more chances of flipping scum than BH. ##Unvote: Foolishness ##Vote: austin I don't see MZ being scum after skimming his filter. Damn I don't have much time for this, this game is huge :/ After I come back from the gym I'll post more thoroughly I'd be much happier with a Gonzaw lynch. | ||
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He really impressed me with his play in the iGrok game when he was town but here he has been underwhelming to say the least. Compare a typical post from that game On June 11 2012 06:24 gonzaw wrote: I noticed that too; but I wanted to wait and see how he behaves after that. I didn't see any aparent scum motivation with his post, but it's "fishy" enough to keep a close eye on him and see how he acts the remainder of D1. Strawman. I accuse you of not "holding" your end of the deal in that previous post you made. You certainly did have time to discuss the RNG thing instead of analyzing, or at least trying to analyze, so you justifying it by saying "I don't have enough time" is irrelevant. Because I don't want scum to forget about it. After I posted that, I realized that if I was Crazy Fiend this game I'd be fucked However I'm not so it's all cool (just another game mechanic to take advantage of), that way we can try to focus on catching scum alone, and perhaps let scum get rid of the CF themselves (by shooting him+outing him in the thread later). Right, my only reasoning behind that post was to "get us off track of discussing a lynch", when I was the only that tried to get you people to abandon wasting time with the RNG talk and try to discuss a lynch in the first place You are not doing a good job of defending yourself Greymist. What do you think of Wiggles? To his filter here. I mean the closest thing I can find to pushing a read, or poking, or asking a tough question or just generally being productive are his two big posts here and here. 90% of the stuff in there is just fluffy questions, even his vote reasoning is terrible I've read syllogism posts and I did get that feeling he's just trying to appear pro-town while not contributing himself. Him accusing Prob for making that post 1 minute into D1 seems so fake. I don't think a town syllo would actually believe that or accuse him like he did without either changing his mind or following up on it He seemed pretty aggressive against Meapak, Katina and others, but just in an "accusatory" tone of his post that doesn't help town at all but helps create more confusion by casting suspicion on many people. I think he's scum since I didn't see syllo act like this in Liar Game. He was more intent on getting information from people, not shit on people, cast suspicion and not try to shit things up. Which is just a straight up parrot of what other people have said. Then he does a complete 180 to use Syllo's logic to vote for Foolishness when no-one was voting for him. He doesn't present anything knew or even poke Foolishness. On July 18 2012 04:17 gonzaw wrote: Fuck, syllogism makes sense about Foolishness, I don't know if I was wrong about him before or this is him "finding other scum for us" like wbg said, but damn, maybe lynching syllo is not a good choice, I think lynching Foo' today would be better. This is the kind of post I don't see town Foo' doing at all. He just mentions BH and adds some wishy-washy stuff about how he acted like this as 3rd party and concludes nothing at all. Foo' defending Palmar when Palmar was acting like a dick by saying things like "we can figure him out as scum by D3 if he has less than 6 pages of filter" is so stupid I can't believe a town Foo' would say that. I've posted about his earlier posts before. ##Unvote: syllogism ##Vote: Foolishness He is so concerned with looking good that he doesn't bother to actually participate. This is complete contrast to the iGrok game where he actively pushed people, broke down the setup and was generally a hard ass. ##Vote: Gonzaw | ||
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On July 18 2012 08:47 sandroba wrote: Austin never pushed for my lynch. He pushed for my role. He is concerned if my ability is one-shot or multiple use. What here is not mafia agenda? Where is the town agenda in that? How does me claiming any of these options help him figure out my alignment? I agree there is no town agenda. It is bad bad play. You yourself realise that you are likely to die overnight, so what use does your role provide mafia? I mean they know you can send messages now so anything coming from you would be disregarded right. If messages don't come directly from you then they cannot know whether something is from you or not which provides even more incentive to shoot you. As you pointed out they have to be wary of messages in general now because they know they can be faked. You even mentioned that there might be other people with a similar role. So my point is, what does mafia gain from knowing your role? | ||
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On July 18 2012 08:31 gonzaw wrote: About austin: I don't get why he's obsessing so much with sandro's role. I'd understand having that first suspicion if he actually believed something was wrong (like in that post I mentioned), but he spent posts and posts and posts dealing with sandro's claim and ability and it clogged up the thread too much. I don't get why he'd do that as town, specially since his doubts of sandro's claim were dealt with by other people, he didn't need to keep cluttering things up with it. There are little things that don't make me confident in him being scum, like some of the confidence he seems to have in his posts, and the fact that he "overposts" like this as town. I'm not that confident in lynching him, but I think he has more chances of flipping scum than BH. ##Unvote: Foolishness ##Vote: austin I don't see MZ being scum after skimming his filter. Damn I don't have much time for this, this game is huge :/ After I come back from the gym I'll post more thoroughly In case you were wondering why I singled out this post, I'll explain it to you. The first bit Gonzaw explains he is confused by poor austin's behaviour. It just doesn't make sense from a town point of view but damn it is cluttering up this thread that is so hard to read. But it is alight, there are some small things that make him "unconfident" that austin is scum (like WTF?), so he doesn't think he is scum. But hey why not lynch him, right? Honestly can someone explain this sentence to me? There are little things that don't make me confident in him being scum, like some of the confidence he seems to have in his posts, and the fact that he "overposts" like this as town. Everything about it says Austin is town but he straight up votes for him? This is not townie Gonzaw. | ||
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On July 18 2012 09:18 HiroPro wrote: Wouldn't mafia want to kill you regardless of whether your ability is one-shot or not though, sandroba? In addition to this, why would they NOT want to make sure their messages are from their superiors if your ability is only one shot? Like you said, there may be more than one of your role. I get that the info provides a little certainty for mafia but in reality, it isn't much. Basically if austin is mafia he has sacrificed himself to ensure that his fellow scum members can safely receive messages tonight knowing their might be other ways that they are sabotaged? Reckless doesn't even begin to describe that behaviour. I'll be here are lynch time, so if it comes down to a choice between Austin, BH and MZ, I will change my vote, but right now I think Gonzaw is a better lynch. | ||
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On July 18 2012 09:25 marvellosity wrote: you're on drugs if you think 13 more people are gonna vote gonzaw in the next few hours Well with an attitude like that, sure. No thoughts on my case at all | ||
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In the other corner, you have a Gonzaw who doesn't care at all but it is happy enough to pop in every now and then and post crap. Gonzaw knows this is detrimental to us in such a big game. When he does take the time to consolidate his post, they have nothing in common with his townie play. He even whinged that it took him three hours to post those essays but both of them are terrible. They are all soft questions and bad vote reasoning. It just doesn't follow. If you are town and you are pressed for time, you make sure that when you have it, you use it wisely. Gonzaw didn't even follow up on his questions he asked in those posts. I responded to his first major post immediately after he posted it and he just disappeared. | ||
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In the mean time I am going to take a closer look at MZ because I don't like the Austin lynch and BH is a complete black box to me. | ||
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What about him, you think he is town right? So surely this is a good thing? Would you vote for Gonzaw Kurumi? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Chezinu (0) Meapak_Ziphh (2) mattchew kurumi Kurumi (0) Blazinghand (7) GGQ HiroPro Chezinu rastaban slOosh Katina marvellosity syllogism (1) Foolishness GGQ (0) Palmar (0) Katina (0) layabout (0) HiroPro (0) Sandroba (1) austinmcc austinmcc (5) supersoft wherebugsgo Bill Murray risk.nuke gonzaw Layabout (0) Foolishness (0) Gonzaw (6) Probulous sandroba VisceraEyes Syllogism Blazinghand Palmar No-Lynch (0) Nonvoters (5) layabout Meapak_Ziphh Q-bert-Z RebirthOfLeGenD Zealos | ||
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Same to Katina, Mattchew and Chez? | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:22 gonzaw wrote: I just skimmed these last few pages and for first impressions I have to say Foolishness post seems quite scummy since he doesn't usually start playing like that as town (that was his 1st post right?) Absolute fluff. Your just waltz in say he is scummy because you think his play is different but you don't bother to tell us how it is different or how that makes it scummy. On July 17 2012 14:50 gonzaw wrote: The thing is that I get the feeling Foolishness is scum too :/ I didn't see the conviction from him in that 1st post of his. He was just babbling about lots of people in 1 or 2 sentences casting doubt all around without explaining himself one single bit. Although I kind of agree with his case on syllo, although he spends too much time focusing on "giving advice" when he hasn't done much like that in this game and has more incriminating stuff. The way he posts is not usual town Foo' either, where he tries to make sense of stuff and actually lead town. Also I would have thought Foolishness had read iGrok's game, or at least known Palmar was scum there. This is a little better but is essentially exactly what Katina wrote. Then when Foolishness follows up with a well thought out post it doesn't get a mention from you? This looks like you are trying to justify your read. On July 18 2012 04:17 gonzaw wrote: This is the kind of post I don't see town Foo' doing at all. He just mentions BH and adds some wishy-washy stuff about how he acted like this as 3rd party and concludes nothing at all. Foo' defending Palmar when Palmar was acting like a dick by saying things like "we can figure him out as scum by D3 if he has less than 6 pages of filter" is so stupid I can't believe a town Foo' would say that. I've posted about his earlier posts before. This is the best thing you have posted this game but it isn't a case. It is a single point WHICH YOU NEVER FOLLOW UP ON. Honestly you jump around unlike anything I have seen from you. Then when you do come back into the thread instead of straight up saying you are sheeping people you try and justify your vote with the worst possible logic ever. You are trying to find an excuse to vote for Austin rather than trying to find out if he is scum. You have had time. You have posted more than a few people this game, but what you have posted has been really scummy. When you had time, instead of clarifying your thoughts on Foolishness (your initial read) you jumped around without taking a stand which is completely different to how you normally play. All this points to you being scum. | ||
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Anyone not on Gonzaw is essentially voting for a no-lynch, which is why I would like someone to tell me why he is town? | ||
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4 You have 45 minutes to find 10 others. It just doesn't make sense. You should be trying to determine whether a Gonzaw lynch is better than a no-lynch because realistically those are the options right now. | ||
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On July 18 2012 11:24 GGQ wrote: Why did I vote BH at all? Because he was being active and throwing his vote around without doing anything and seemed very concerned with his own activity, as if it was justifying something. I believed and still believe he is scum. How is this stronger than the Gonzaw case? On July 17 2012 01:38 HiroPro wrote: I agree with sandroba: BH's posting looks very artificial. His reasoning for ignoring Probulous doesn't make sense: Probulous's question is not invalid just because BH switched targets. And his logic for thinking that sandroba/syllo are scum is laughable. ##Vote Blazinghand So he ignored me and then made up a bad reason for it? I've dropped it, so did Sandroba. If you are sheeping Sandroba why do you feel BH is a better lynch even though Sandroba does not? On July 17 2012 15:51 Chezinu wrote: WBG FTW!!! Your sanity eases my mind. I've been trying to kill blazinghand since the very begining of this game. First I attempt to send a minion to kill him, but that ended up failing. Then I shoot a nuke at him, but then he blocks it. This time though, I think I can lynch him. The TimeWarper's words are ringing true. I would love to give QBZ thanks for that,  . Being SILLY is Fun!##Unvote ##Vote BlazingHand ... Nevermind, you do your thing On July 17 2012 05:18 rastaban wrote: I like the case on BH better than the on Mz right. I feel GGQ is right in his assessment that mafia will use the lack of ties to make them more bold in their case rather than second guessing. Look at my play as Serial Killer, I decided to try and play as pro town as possible, I ended up going overboard and tunneling risk.nuke in my effort. I feel like MZ's caution is the sign of town who wants to get things right rather than scum who wants to get the day over with. Think about it we still have more than 24 hours of discussion to go. As others have also pointed out, he is also trying too hard to find reasons for his votes, it makes them seem fake. ##vote blazinghand BH is being bold, that is literally the reason you are voting for him? We no longer have more than 24 hrs so why is this a better case than Gonzaw? On July 17 2012 23:03 slOosh wrote: I've been thinking about the setup and I think Palmar nails it here. Basically everyone beside 3 CEOs are uninformed majority, and even they only know a fraction of their whole team. Thus all scum will be scared of pushing / lynching / hitting each other ala shooting GGQ in sleeper II, and so more than anything they will be focusing on survival. BH fits this mold. WBG explains here. ##Vote: BlazingHand I have already pointed out that everyone is going to be focused on survival. I don't understand Palmar's point and he never clarified it. No-one has told me why a townie would not be focused on surviving. It is much harder to prove your alignment this game so surviving if you are town is probably a decent strategy as opposed to, I don't know, dying? On July 18 2012 06:44 Katina wrote: There is no way there will be a Foolishness or a Sandroba lynch today. Syllogism, or Blazinghand is most likely at this point maybe Austin (depends on everyone else)...Right now both Syllogism and Blazinghand is near the top of my suspicion list and these two are the main candidates for lynch today. Blazinghand hasn't been around in for a bit while Syllogism has been here trying to defend himself and push his suspicions of Foolishness (Who is also scummy to me) I would like to give Syllo another day and see what happens. So I will be voting for Blazhinghand today. I'm sure enough about austin yet to consider him a lynch candidate today I will wait and see what happens later on. ##Unvote Kurumi ##Vote Blazinghand Depending on his flip and who dies during the night hopefully we will have a more organized D2. Which is the biggest load of hogwash ever. He is suspicious, because? Oh I get it, he is suspicious because he is suspicious... If you guys are going to push this wagon then please give me a reason to vote for BH cause right now the only one who has tried this is bugs and I fundamentally disagree with his logic on BH's response to the nuke. | ||
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On July 18 2012 12:36 Chezinu wrote: I told my minions to kill BH today and gonzaw tomorrow. But it seems they want to kill gonzaw now... Oh why did I have to rage at gonzaw and in turn began the wagon.. I know, it was your post that made me go and reconsider my earlier doubts about him. So for that, thank you. Given this On July 18 2012 06:35 sandroba wrote: So yeah, let's lynch austin. Leaves us more time to think about BH/Laya, which I'm not entirely positive on being scum yet. and this On July 18 2012 09:46 sandroba wrote: Too many scum this game. Must decide on one. Unless you can present a very good reason why gonzaw is not scum vote gonzaw. This game has 9 mafia right now and it's majority lynch so everyone needs to get behind the same lynch, not propose multiple ones. I'm sure a fair bit of you are right about your suspicions, but we must get behind one lynch to make sure it happens. I'm willing to let go of my suspects for now to get Gonzaw lynched and so must you. ##Vote Gonzaw Anyone who is sheeping Sandroba should be on Gonzaw. | ||
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On July 18 2012 12:40 rastaban wrote: @ prob. I originally voted bh before the Nuke business. He was very aggressive from the start. It reminded me of my play as sk when trying to be town. Combine this with his statement on how he felt he was so town that the only way some one would vote for him is if he was scum. His arguments also didnt seem organic but like someone trying to hard. The nuke issue merely helped confirm it for me, when he began prioritizing his own survival. What part of the nuke logic do you not agree with? That him blocking it makes him scum. I can see a rash townie using whatever means they have to defend themselves from imminent death. Yes waiting for confirmation would have been better but we had already seen one nuke go off, so BH not immediately doubting Chez does not, in my mind, make him scum. | ||
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Why respond if he thinks he can just get away with ignoring it. Sandroba didnt unvote because he stopped believing bh was scum; he did so because he didnt think there was enough support for a lynch. And unlike you I actually think wbg 's argument is valid. Sandro's filter says otherwise. On July 18 2012 06:35 sandroba wrote: So yeah, let's lynch austin. Leaves us more time to think about BH/Laya, which I'm not entirely positive on being scum yet. | ||
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On July 18 2012 12:59 HiroPro wrote: Also Probulous, its a pain for me to check but did BH ever address your initial concern even after dropping his suspicion/dumb read on you? No right No he didn't. He just called me scum farting in the wind and then said I didn't read the thread even though I was replying at the time. Then, nothing... | ||
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BH on 12 Gonz on 8 | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:08 Chezinu wrote: hmm... its seems I need to make my deadly moves in conjunction with the deadly attacks... BH your going to suffer from my TEXT. Try and block the comprehension of my words! HURARR! Go Go AGGRESSIVE WORDS!!! Who would have known that a Communications Director was also a Power Ranger? | ||
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On July 18 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote: I opted out and decided to reread. It's fascinating, some of the strangest things are jumping out at me. Details at 11. Is it 11 yet? Cause I could do with a dose of details. | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:28 Mattchew wrote: My vote has been stolen. I have no control over where it is placed for this cycle. Um what? What do you mean it has been stolen? | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:39 Chezinu wrote: so we are two votes from lynching BH and you want everyone to go the other way? To the side where people are stealing other peoples votes and using dirty tricks? uhh Because stealing votes is not transparent? To me it just as likely mafia steal a vote like that for exactly the logic you are presenting. Obviously whoever it gets put on will look better. I think they are relying on that. TLDR: It means nothing | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:47 Chezinu wrote: VE save yourself! Amen brother! | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:49 Bill Murray wrote: 1) I haven't seen BH's posting at all - I am not caught up - it was a ploy 2) I HAVE seen Gonzaw make excuses I don't like excuses I find that hard to believe. He has been one of the more prolific posters all game but you haven't seen him? | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:56 Chezinu wrote: Kill Bill Kill Bill!!! ROFL, now that would be interesting. I like you Chez. You're fun. | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:56 Bill Murray wrote: I am ok with it, as if he is a cop, we kill chezinu In the immortal words of our lord and saviour What the fuck? | ||
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A Zealos kind | ||
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On July 18 2012 13:58 Probulous wrote: In the immortal words of our lord and saviour What the fuck? Bill can you try and explain this to us of lesser minds... As in why you think BH is a cop??? | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:05 Chezinu wrote: Matt must be a secret vote changer role... he must be mafia This would give him a good excuse not to be on BH. If he "steals" his own vote and puts it on Gonzaw he is immune from voting responsibility. Especially given he made it clear he would not voluntarily vote for Gonzaw. A BH red flip would have helped in that regard. Is that what you are thinking Chez? | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:13 supersoft wrote: ah come on. that sucks. Well given you were on austin you can't really complain. We did try and get a lynch, I swear we did. | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:14 Chezinu wrote: I mean changing someone's vote twice. What if he is mafia wanting no lynch and blaming some mysterious mafia is mind controlling him Well he would have to have that power because he never physically voted for Gonzaw. I am trying to think of the motivations from a scum point of view. I have no doubt it would be a scum role because hiding people's intentions, or rather completely subverting them are not beneficial to town. If Matt is a townie and had this happen to him, then scum gain by removing a free floating vote from BH. But he also was adamant he wouldn't vote for BH. So there wasn't really any risk of that. What does mafia gain from doing this to him? | ||
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Well done ROL, well done. | ||
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You ended up being the only person voting for Syllo and we missed our lynch by 1 vote. Congratulations. | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:33 Chezinu wrote: Perhaps he was following orders and Kurumi wasn't his true target... I once heard you have to trust in your minions. He flipped blue, what orders exactly? | ||
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Where were all you guys before the lynch? | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:56 supersoft wrote: why dont you just read my filter, before you ask me stupid questions i already answered. really. Apologies, I missed that post. Bad timing I guess. I'm just really frustrated that we so close and got fucked by a single vote when so many people either didn't vote for one of the main options or just weren't here. Annoyed doesn't cover it, and now this ROL thing just compounds the frustration. | ||
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On July 18 2012 15:21 Foolishness wrote: You were the one behind 3 wagons within a 10 hour period. Instead of just staying on syllogism and Blazinghand from the start you and bugs and others had to run around with the votes. Good job. So wait it is our fault that there was a no lynch? | ||
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Syllo had been pushed hard for two days and was never above about 5 votes. I know, I tried like hell to get him lynched but it wasn't happening. Your vote was always going to be wasted. It is unreasonable to try and blame the no lynch on those that actually voted for someone who could have gotten lynched. I agree that the others on Austin and the no voter (I assume he will be modkilled) are culpable, but that doesn't excuse you. | ||
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Well at least we won't have a nolynch tomorrow. One burned twice shy and all that. Bugs, I can get down with a Foolishness lynch. His response to the no lynch is completely unfair. Especially his attack on you and sandroba. | ||
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Still reading up on the night. VE, what were those details you found that you were going to post at 11? | ||
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On July 18 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote: I opted out and decided to reread. It's fascinating, some of the strangest things are jumping out at me. Details at 11. This | ||
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On July 18 2012 14:05 Chezinu wrote: Matt must be a secret vote changer role... he must be mafia Hi Chez, I know we discussed this but can you give me any reason why mafia would want to change his vote if he was town? Bare in mind it ended up on BH right before the deadline. I assume the role is a scum role and I can see why Matt would use it on himself if he is scum. Why would scum use it, if Matt is town... | ||
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So what you are saying is that the role would be that he could ninja vote? Sounds like a dumb role to me. It is not like he could vote without getting noticed. Maybe I will just ignore it then | ||
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On July 19 2012 09:00 Bill Murray wrote: Someone could have stolen his vote Why? That is what I am trying to work out. | ||
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In your own words you said that there were things that "jumped out at you" but there is nothing in that post that jumps out at me. In fact most of it is about stuff that happened after that post. What jumped out you man? | ||
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On July 19 2012 09:15 Mattchew wrote: Cause I wasn't on either lynch so I would be an automatic +1 (without subtracting from either side) Which does exactly what? See, mafia gain no benefit from it. If their intention was to get a misslynch well they failed. Given they initially moved your vote onto Gonzaw who had less votes I could see them playing for a no lynch but then they move it to BH right at the deadline bringing a lynch closer, but they still failed. Why move it back? Honestly I am starting to think that whoever used it was just trying to mess with us, so I am going to drop it. | ||
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On July 19 2012 09:22 marvellosity wrote: Katina, this game you are not a "chosen one", so you do not get included in such posts. She is right though. She was the first on Palmar (a weak case but her intentions were clear). No need to bring her down. | ||
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Are you ignoring me? Come on son, you can't post a wall of text and then disappear. People will think you are mafia. | ||
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Can we assume a single Kp for scum then. On July 02 2012 16:07 Protactinium wrote: Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. | ||
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On July 19 2012 09:42 Chezinu wrote: If town has no vigis... then that would make kurumi more likely town... Can you explain this Chez? If town couldn't kill him, scum certainly wouldn't. | ||
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On July 19 2012 09:54 sandroba wrote: As long as the higher ups are still alive this game is horribly imbalanced in favor of mafia. But IF we can kill them off soon all communication will be lost and this will be a long drawn out game where mafia and town both have to eliminate each other completely to win. So that should be our goal for the following days. Given that, wouldn't it be better to leave Kurumi alive today and try and kill the senior management. As long as he is willing to vote with us he is not a threat. It is highly unlikely he has more than one power, or nuke. If there is no announcement in the next 24 hrs we know he doesn't have a second nuke. No-one is going to listen to him either so he is essentially vanilla. To me it makes sense to kill our biggest threat first. I know we have to kill Kurumi eventually but right now that gives mafia a free day of not being in the spotlight. Am I crazy? | ||
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On July 19 2012 10:08 HiroPro wrote: Also, you still did not explain why a town Zealos would ever try to argue that BH was trying to buddy "influential townie" Kurumi. I don't know, it doesn't sound like something scum would do either. I agree with Sandro, we need to focus on the senior management. | ||
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##Vote: Kurumi If we can only kill one person at a time during both day and night then can we speed up this particular day? Everyone will be voting Kurumi and if the whole 48hrs is used people are just going to AFK. | ||
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On July 19 2012 09:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Can't a guy compose a post in peace? Cheese and rice. Gimme a sec! ... | ||
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I'm sure Matt's stealer is scum - it switched against the consolidation slOosh, nice to see you around. Just a clarification, Matt's vote actually ended up on BH. It was switched back right before the deadline. | ||
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On July 19 2012 13:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: No actually. If I do people will claim that I was faking the whole stealing thing in the first place. I'd rather see where whoever is controlling my vote (most likely scum) puts it. When I don't get modkilled for failure to vote people will have confirmation that this is a real role. This also clears mattchew to a certain extent because we know he wasn't faking his claim. He could of course still be scum but at least he's not lying just to muddy the waters. Apparently onto Foolishness. I agree that it makes Mattchew's claim more believable. On July 19 2012 12:34 Protactinium wrote: Foolishness (1) Meapak_Ziphh | ||
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Yet it boils down to a case on BM - I was hoping for something on ... a player of different stature than BM. That is my feeling too, hence why I asked my question regarding the executive. I honestly think we need to focus on the information structure of the mafia. Now could BM be an executive? Maybe, if the roles were randomed then it is certainly a possibility but given the hosts never answered my question regarding role randoming I am happy to assume that not all roles are randomed. Given the calibre of this player list I think that is a reasonable assumption. So thisWho cares? Any attempt to try to distinguish whether a suspect is an executive or not is retarded. Is not a helpful response at all. I just asked for an opinion. He seems to disagree with Syllo and Sandroba that targeting the executive is a good idea. Why? I don't know. I for one do care if BM is an executive because that is who we need to kill. Yes finding scum is our ultimate goal, but there are currently 9 scum running around. Three of which are in executive roles. Given we are killing a minion (Kurumi had a role) I think it prudent to try and ascertain the leadership but apparently that is "retarded". | ||
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On July 19 2012 14:31 Blazinghand wrote: The problem is that trying to ascertain leadership is like there's a police shootout with some criminals and the Probulous is there and he's like "oh hey I wonder, are those bullets 7.62x39mm or 5.66x45mm?" and everyone else is like "SHUT UP JUST SHOOT" and he's like "why are you calling me retarded? I think it prudent to try and ascertain the caliber of these bullets " and is totally unaware that it's not possible to find out and not nearly as important as the objective at hand Urgh. Whatever man. I would love to be able to just shutup and shoot but we can't. We can only kill one person per day. If I had my way, it would be the senior management, so I am focusing my scumhunting on senior players because I believe the hosts would not have put someone like Zealos (for example) as the CEO. Now is BM a senior player? I don't know, hence my question. To use your example, I am trying to take out the guy organising the killing, rather than the one reloading the guns. | ||
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If the message is anonymous, how would Zealos know it came from you? We don't know if scum can send messages to townies so ignoring the message is not a bad idea in my mind. Am I missing something? | ||
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On July 20 2012 01:32 Mattchew wrote: Cool your scum too.... this is not that hard... woulda covered your tracks better without the wah wah waaaaaah This makes absolutely no sense...Like 0 Note to self: Risk has done nothing but defend himself and call people stupid. | ||
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On July 20 2012 08:27 supersoft wrote: yes. go back and think about it. If scum sends you a message and you're town, what do you do? LOL, call this pre-coffee stupidity. Sorry guys | ||
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Cause for the life of me I can't believe that mafia would need a blocking ability if they have the only nuke. Given they only have six power roles, it would needlessly weaken them. We know town don't have a nuke because Kurumi is still alive. | ||
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On July 17 2012 05:22 Foolishness wrote: Syllogism is mafia ... Someone needs to redirect that nuke at marvellosity. On July 17 2012 06:39 Foolishness wrote: Day 1 nuke is a Kurumi-esque thing to do, but I've said that before about him when he's mafia. I want the nuke redirected at marvellosity because he's mafia. A lot has been said about Foolishness' disinterest in this game. His read of BM is If Fool was convinced Syllo is scum because he didn't follow up on his read, why is this all Fool has to say about Marv? He wanted to nuke him because he was mafia, but never bothers to go back to that read. That is exactly the same thing he was calling Syllo scum for at exactly the same time. So Foolishness, do you still think Syllo is mafia? If so, why are exhibiting exactly the same behaviour? | ||
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On July 20 2012 08:50 marvellosity wrote: I would not be surprised. I could easily think of a townie being obstinate and saving their nuke on the basis that Kurumi was going to die anyway. And there's probably other silly reasons too. Well we will know by the end of the day. If there is no nuke sent at Zealos then we have no nuke. This is why I want to know if there are still people who think BH is scum. Either I can explain my logic to them and save them the hassle of tunnelling a likely town, or they can point out to me why I am being stupid, or they are scum. It's a win-win-win. | ||
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On July 20 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote: It's OK VE, Probey is here. Just relax and everything will be alright PROBULOUS MARV WAS MEAN TO ME!!  I must say Marv, provoking VE is not something I would have expected from you. On July 20 2012 05:46 marvellosity wrote: Are you purposefully being stupid? That is not helpful and you know it. So why post it? | ||
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Note to self: QBertz is acusing people of lurking whilst being useless himself. | ||
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ROFL he stated it quite clearly that he wanted that person to claim they received the PM before the deadline | ||
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Why would scum need a nuke blocking ability? Kurumi is the only person who had a nuke (assumption but lack of other nuke so far makes me confident on this), he is likely scum from his actions. Ergo, why would mafia need a nuke blocking ability. Bare in mind they only have 6 power roles, one of which is apparently a nuke. So that leaves 5. Giving them a useless role would be really detrimental to them. | ||
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You've been in game a while now. I value your opinion ever since that god aweful mini, so what are your reads? So far your filter is just discussing other people's ideas. Any of your own? | ||
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On July 19 2012 03:11 sandroba wrote: And BTW scum I already messaged one of you. If the person I messaged doesn't reveal he got messaged until the end of this night I'm gonna know he/she is scum for sure. GL figuring it out, I put great effort into it =) Yes he called you scum, but note the bold. He wasn't sure until you didn't answer. | ||
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On July 20 2012 09:36 Zealos wrote: Based on the content of the message it made it sound like he knew I was town. I dunno, it didn't exactly seem to make any sense to reveal that I was messaged, but whatever, the logic is pretty dumb anyway. So when someone sends you a message and then publicly states that if you don't reveal it they know you are scum, you think it makes no sense to reveal the message. | ||
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On July 20 2012 09:43 Zealos wrote: Ofc, it makes sense now. I see. Did you read Sandroba's post in the thread saying he would consider the recipient scum if they did not post the message? | ||
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On July 20 2012 09:41 Foolishness wrote: Yes I still think he's mafia. He's been exhibiting what I call HiroPro syndrome as of late: just subtly push any and all cases that come up. marvellosity likes to do that too. I'm more sure about Bill Murray than syllogism. So why is then that the only time you mention Marv at all is when I point out almost 50 pages later, that you dropped your "case" on him, eventhough you still think he is mafia? | ||
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On July 20 2012 09:55 Mattchew wrote: His wah wah waaaah conveys deflection. He knows not making that post is scummy so he tries to play it off as if he is joking and trolling about not making the post. Its forced nonchalance to convey he is comfortable relaying a scummy message. I do it too. The point is it would be a much better play by VE to just fake something. I gave him a ready made excuse to waffle on about early game stuff that might or might not be relevant. He knows that posting nothing looks scummy but he does it anyway. The wah wah stuff is just VE being VE. You somehow take that to mean he is scum? At worst he was deflecting from participating but look at that, he is participating. Like I said, your post makes no sense. | ||
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On July 20 2012 10:04 Mattchew wrote: The point is VE as town is more confident than needing to deflect shit away by saying stupid stuff like wah wah waaah.. I expect Town VE to be way more assertive and just say I am not writing a post about it. Um you haven't read his recent games have you? | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:10 Katina wrote: This thread is so messy it's not even funny. Here's what needs to happen: Keep your votes on Kurumi. We are not going to spend the last day bringing up new candidates (Like Zealos) and throw the thread into complete chaos again then end up with another no lynch. There's hard evidence on Kurumi right now, let's not forget that. We will see what his flip is then go from therw. When D3 hits THEN will we start voting for other people who are Mafia. (Mattchew, Palmar, Foolishness, Blazinghand, etc) There has been roughly ten pages since I looked at the thread this morning and all the content in those pages say close to nothing about anything. It's all a bunch of derp and twerp that is continuing to keep the thread horrible cluttered and disorganized. I'm surprised to see that the veteran players (who are usually good at keep direction for the town) are sitting around doing nothing or contributing to the chaos as well. If this continues then this game will be fast and resulting in a for sure Mafia victory. Well that's a useless post. You basically come into the thread complaining that we have added no new information (false) and then proceed to add no new information yourself. Hipo-Creeeeeet | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:34 Chezinu wrote: I have a Problem with Prob Probably cause he is an executive mafia... ROFL, um thanks? | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:36 Chezinu wrote: I still don't understand why the Chairman of the Board would have a minion with a nuke.. Well Kurumi is mafia, he had a nuke, ergo mafia have a nuke. Why would it have to be Chairman of the Board? | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:44 gonzaw wrote: Hey Prob, I didn't see you talk about me at all since N1. Do you still think I'm mafia? I don't know, hence my silence. Your night post seemed genuine and if you really were too busy you will be better today. | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:51 Chezinu wrote: oh... I thought you were being silent about something else... You the one with all the questions.. How do you like my questions? What questions? You haven't asked me anything. Yes, I am asking questions. Mainly because there are people who have not posted clearly, or posted at all. I am trying to get clear positions from people. Consider it a period of reconsideration. I am not mafia and so I am not Chairman of the Board, but you have any specific questions, fire away. | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:56 Chezinu wrote: Are you scared prob? you know.. that I know your secret? Are you going to answer me?  No I'm not scared. You don't know my secret because I don't have a secret. Yes I will answer you. | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:58 Chezinu wrote: Who do you work for? you Probably don't know...if you get what i mean.. muahahha Whilst a nice rhetoical flourish, how exactly do I answer that question? I don't know who my bosses are. I don't know if I have bosses. | ||
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On July 20 2012 12:01 Chezinu wrote: ya know, mini mafia 2 was a pretty fun game.. but this is taking it to a whole new level! OK I just skimmed that game and you were a detective. If you are implying that you are the same this game (you have of course claimed as such) with a check on me, then something is seriously whack. Chez, I know this isn't your style but can you be a little less obtuse? If you have a check on me than that is information we need to sort out. | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:58 Chezinu wrote: Who do you work for? you Probably don't know...if you get what i mean.. muahahha Okay I get it. Your interpretation is wrong, but I think I understand your role now. You're going through the motions aren't you? | ||
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Can you explain how the mechanic's link to BH being scum? It seems like you are saying bugs got shot for a reason (his reads I presume) and that because he was suspicious of BH, his death implicates BH. Is that right? BH claimed block before you right? | ||
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On July 17 2012 12:35 Blazinghand wrote: Kurumi being scum doesn't mean RoL is town. Even if Kurumi is one of the managers, he still has very little idea who he's actually shooting, and RoL isn't exactly captain mctownerson to begin with. Note he doesn't say RoL is scum, just that he can't be sure he is town. In other words he thought about this action and chose not to save RoL on the off chance that Kurumi got it wrong. BH was given a golden opportunity to "prove" his alignment by blocking the Kurumi nuke but he didn't. This would have made sense from both alignment's point of view because he could not be sure that RoL wasn't scum. So if he actually had the block ability he could use it to potentially save a buddy and confirm himself. This makes me think he doesn't have the role. Which means this is a lie. So we follow in bugs' footsteps On July 17 2012 12:32 wherebugsgo wrote: we don't, but why would BH use ##block unless he had that ability or that he took the nuke seriously? If he's lying about having a block then he's scum, if he's not lying it doesn't change anything. My apologies bugs. I didn't understand the crux of your case yesterdayhopefully we can rectify that. | ||
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On July 20 2012 14:22 Chezinu wrote: can anyone here guess my abilities? You can check the Role Name of people. | ||
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On July 20 2012 14:22 VisceraEyes wrote: OMG SANDROBA IS SCUM It's possible. His choice of Kurumi struck me as odd because of all people playing here, Kurumi might just follow the message instructions without thinking. Of course, that is the idea but it does mean that Krumui could just not have thought of the implications of responding in the way he/she/it (which is it?) did. Meaning it is not alignment indicative. | ||
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On July 20 2012 14:32 Chezinu wrote: So, are you saying that you are the chairman of the board? PS: see my comment to rastbanwhatever about how to understand the question. Not quite. Promotion seems a long way off and I haven't received the call. I wish I had minions, I'd make them crown me king and carry me through the office on their shoulders. But right now I am just a regular worker bee, carrying others around. | ||
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Do we have a list of claimed messages? | ||
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On July 20 2012 14:44 Blazinghand wrote: Wait so did Chez message me? or was that some other guy? Sandro says it wasn't him. Are you claiming that you got messaged? Post it please. | ||
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Are you the Censor? We know you can send messages. We know you are the Director of Communications. Can you read other people's messages? It's crazy, I know but there is no harm in asking right? | ||
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Chez, I assume your memory hasn't changed then? | ||
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On July 20 2012 15:31 Chezinu wrote: Is this about the nuke only being half true and about chezinu only being half chezinu? It's about Palmar | ||
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I am going to be busy as hell but will try and post when I can. | ||
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I had him as town for his read on you until you stopped calling me scum because of my read. But my thinking really changed with his response to bugs after the no lynch. Blaming bugs for that given his actions was bound to receive a reaction. Then his case on BM was meh to say the least. He may have been right but it wasn't what I was expecting. As Sloosh said, BM of all people? He knew he was going to be under pressure but his target for analysis is someone nobody was really going to take seriously (sorry BM but that was my opinion). The thing is, the case against Fool essentially boiled down to not caring so I looked for other inconsistencies. If you want more detail, I'll post it when I get to a computer. From phone | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:12 syllogism wrote: How come TL mafia always has people ruining the games on purpose and yet these people always get welcomed back into games Well given his actions after that at least he tried to make amends. Given his flip, he obviously made a mistake so there is no need to get shitty at him. For what it is worth, I appreciate your post PM play Kurumi. I will take a closer look. | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I like grapes. Do you want to buy a kitty? I have no grapes but I do have silverware. Is the kitty soft? :p | ||
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On July 21 2012 09:20 Chezinu wrote: The CEO will most likely choose from two suggested hits. The suggested hit by the chairman of the board or the chairman of marketing. If you are on the good side of both of these, you want have to suffer the chance of getting killed. If both the chairman of marketing and chairman of the board choose the same person.. then that person is going to die.. Um does the CEO know who suggests what? Fro my reading he just would just get a compiled list. Unless there is a secret communication in thread for scum to list who their target is... | ||
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Now we listen to VE. | ||
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Before you ask, he is the only person I am certain is town. | ||
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Risk Mattchew Qbertz BH Palmar That's off the top of my head. I need to retread but I am on my phone which makes it difficult. | ||
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On July 22 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Foolish wtb town cred. ##Lynch Blazinghand <3 Prob. ##vote Chezinu Association tells are a go. Phoneposting. I am but your humble servent  | ||
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Palmar Meapak Risk Layabout gonzaw Possible mafia Mattchew Qbertz Zealos ##Vote: Palmar Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. | ||
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Defends Chez (Ignore list, No case against him, 10x more transparent) Katina (interested, Don't trash one of the few people that's making sense this game) Mattchew (ignore list) Palmar (is town) Qberts (Suggests GM smurf, does nothing) Risk nuke (quotes him as saying town is dumb) Zealos (I'm not convinced, No case against him) Attacks BH (makes sense when he is mafia, should be obvious, not helpful, good analysis, solid case) BM (big case, not helpful, good analysis, solid case,.....) Chez (I didn't defend him) GGQ (not helpful, good analysis) Hiropro (Hiropro syndrome, people of interest, not helpful) Marvel (redirect nuke x2, follow up when questioned, people of interest, not helpful) Mattchew (Doesn't make sense, suggests Katina case, somewhat guilty, not helpful, solid case) Meapak (somewhat guilty. not helpful) Palmar (somewhat guilty, Not helpful, Page number stuff) Probulous (somewhat guilty) QBertz (not helpful) Risk (Not helpful) Supersoft (somewhat guilty) Syllo (Balls to the wall, not helpful, good analysis, solid case) Zealos (not helpful, solid case) austin (not helpful, good analysis) slOosh (not helpful) Just rough data. Will need to go through carefully and tease out intentions. | ||
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Notes: Foolishness Actions Defends Chez (Ignore list, No case against him, 10x more transparent) Katina (interested, Don't trash one of the few people that's making sense this game) Mattchew (ignore list) Palmar (is town) Qberts (Suggests GM smurf, does nothing) Risk nuke (quotes him as saying town is dumb) Zealos (I'm not convinced, No case against him) Attacks BH (makes sense when he is mafia, should be obvious, not helpful, good analysis, solid case) BM (big case, not helpful, good analysis, solid case,.....) Chez (I didn't defend him) GGQ (not helpful, good analysis) Hiropro (Hiropro syndrome, people of interest, not helpful) Marvel (redirect nuke x2, follow up when questioned, people of interest, not helpful) Mattchew (Doesn't make sense, suggests Katina case, somewhat guilty, not helpful, solid case) Meapak (somewhat guilty. not helpful) Palmar (somewhat guilty, Not helpful, Page number stuff) Probulous (somewhat guilty) QBertz (not helpful) Risk (Not helpful) Supersoft (somewhat guilty) Syllo (Balls to the wall, not helpful, good analysis, solid case) Zealos (not helpful, solid case) austin (not helpful, good analysis) slOosh (not helpful) I get this Makes an effort to defend Chez (Ignore list, No case against him, 10x more transparent) Katina (interested, Don't trash one of the few people that's making sense this game...) Palmar (is town with major defense) Attacks BM (big case, not helpful, good analysis, solid case,.....) Hiropro (Hiropro syndrome, people of interest, not helpful) Marvel (redirect nuke x2, follow up when questioned, people of interest, not helpful) Mattchew (Doesn't make sense, suggests Katina case, somewhat guilty, not helpful, solid case) Palmar (somewhat guilty, Not helpful, Page number stuff) Syllo (Balls to the wall, not helpful, good analysis, solid case) From this I gather Hiro and Marvel are likely town given Foolishness lacklustre attempts to discredit them without following through. Mattchew is a similar case where Fool uses Katina to bash him. Palmar is interesting because he was dead set on him being town but then changed later in the first day and into day 2 suggesting he got some new "news". Given his tunneling of Syllo who is town, I suspect BM received similar treatment. Compare the difference between his behaviour around Palmar and around Syllo, BM. The vehemence of his defense versus the pussy cat attack suggests he doesn't really want to lynch Palmar. Initial thoughts? | ||
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knew that when he died people would look at who he pressured, what would he do? Would he live up to his name, or would he set up fake reads??? I wouldn't put it past Fool. Given his insistence that Syllo is scum (unlikely) and BM has been open about his role and used it to help town, I think they were his false cases. Look at how hard he pushed them. As I said earlier, given Palmar's skill I find it highly unlikely that Foolishness just dropped his defense so a really soft attack if he genuinely wanted Palmar dead. | ||
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On July 20 2012 16:44 Chezinu wrote: FYI, the message I sent on day 1 was never posted... Muahhahaha I control the minionz muahhahaha.. I wonder if the person I messaged was a chairman... I wonder if he still is following my orders... orders that will reveal to me all of the mafia!!! muahahhahaaha Master Chez. This went to BH didn't it? PS. Why Merc Mini II? I am not sure I see the significance of banking in this game. | ||
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On July 22 2012 16:05 Chezinu wrote: serious time, The chairman of the board now has the power to decide the kills. However, it did not come without a loss. The chairman of the board as you know it has lost a valuable minion, BlazingHand. May he rest in pieces. Now is not the time for moaning for we have greater threats ahead of us. We have a leader that knows less than half the core. If the chairman does not prove his capabilities, the chairman of the market may strike. We cannot afford another rebellion at this time. For now is the time of war. As you have heard it many times before from a variety of worlds, war never changes. How do you know this? | ||
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Mattchew, do us a favour and stop tunnelling Katina. It makes you look like scum because that is all you ever do. | ||
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On July 22 2012 14:04 Chezinu wrote: town kills: 1 RoL town and mafia kills: 1 Kurrumi mafia kills: 4 WBG, Sand, Fool, BH Seems the mafia are better at killing the mafia than town is at killing mafia. I know I am asking you a bunch of questions, but that's because I value your opinion. Since VE killed BH, are you saying VE be scum? Similarly, Supersoft/SlOosh... | ||
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On July 22 2012 21:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Aside from myself and Probulous I seem to recall others unwilling to lynch BH D1 when gonzaw and he were on the block. I'm going back and specifically rereading that portion of the game to see if there's anything there...the Chairman of the Board knew BH would flip scum. Mattchew refused point blank with no real reasoning (BH town meta is he is crazy...) but remember minions don't know who is scum that early. So are unless you think Mattchew is an Exec I am not following your line of reasoning... | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:46 slOosh wrote: On Foolishness: many people (including sandroba!) think he is scum and I'm not seeing it. I'd have preferred if focused his energies on someone other than BM (opposed to other vets I would like better reads on such as Palmar, syllogism), but that's alignment null. So I've looked into BM to determine legitimacy of his read, which I find myself agreeing with and I'm surprised that BM has been so easily dismissed because people are hunting execs, because 1) mafia is mafia, so dismissing it purely on "hunt execs" makes no sense, and 2) to think an exec couldn't pretend to own his minion's power is a dangerous oversight. I think BM is trolling mafia as I don't see any town interest in his posts, opposed to Chezinu who is trolling but has a few posts in which he shows critical thought / town insights. So here he has a townish read on Fool who he then follows with his case on BM (Klicky). So nothing here indicating suspicion of Foolishness at all. Strangely he say Chez is trolling (excuse to ignore) but in a townie way. Ok, maybe that is a throw away line but then On July 21 2012 01:45 slOosh wrote: Chezinu has been spouting a lot of nonsense, and the fact BM expects me to take such claims as serious and valid makes no sense, nor does it logically follow that my reads are flawed due to this. I merely said that a few posts of his seem insightful, but to take every post of his seriously is nonsense. On July 21 2012 15:36 slOosh wrote: Does Chezinu actually have confirmed powers or not? I've started off ok ignoring him but he has begun to seriously hamper thread legibility. Which just makes people even less likely to read Chez. If you think Chez is town, why make excuses not to read his filter? Then comes this in his claim On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote: Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? How is this information useful to town? Knowing my entire role is only beneficial to mafia. Even if my role name suggests a mafia role, the fact that I have proven I have a role that has been useful to town should make it clear I am not mafia. Why is outing a role name not in town's benefit? I can tell you that my role name sounds like a mafia role but Chez took the time to examine my filter, to question me and to evaluate whether I am mafia based on my play. The fact that I think he is town because he didn't out me should be enough. Especially for someone who thinks Chez is town. Note slOosh is not calling Chez scum but he is insinuating that I shouldn't trust him. I also find his statement that minions knowing blue roles is not useful for scum completely out of place. Correct me if I am wrong but a CEO who gets a list full of blues is going to be happier than if it was full of greens. Here is some more muck throwing at Chez On July 22 2012 15:04 slOosh wrote: Couldn't believe I'd pick up such an idea from Chezinu so I did some digging. So slOosh
Note: I have disregarded the claim because well, it is a claim and others are providing insight into that. | ||
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On July 23 2012 09:33 syllogism wrote: Your strongest scum read? Stronger than Palmar? Stronger than the guy who claimed 1-shot vig who can only shoot if no mafia has died in 1.5 cycle? There is no way she is your strongest read unless you are tunnelling or you are lying; i.e. you are mafia. Vote Palmar. Pretty much this. Mattchew latched onto Katina early Day 1 and has never looked back. This is despite her pushing Foolishness AND providing insights into other people's play. She has given us plenty of reasons to think she might be town but Mattchew never considers this a possibility. Coupled with his refusal to entertain the idea that BH was mafia, I think his game plan from Day 1 was to pick a target and tunnel them until they get lynched. This gives him an excuse not to actively participate and hopefully (for him that is) get a townie misslynched. | ||
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On July 23 2012 09:51 layabout wrote: I think Foolishness thought "Mafia never propose stupid things like random lynches day 1." and then it turned out not to be correct. If you think Palmar is town, why is it not correct? | ||
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Regarding Foolishness's Actions: On July 22 2012 12:15 Probulous wrote: Palmar is interesting because he (Fool) was dead set on him being town but then changed later in the first day and into day 2 suggesting he got some new "news". Given his tunneling of Syllo who is town, I suspect BM received similar treatment. Compare the difference between his behaviour around Palmar and around Syllo, BM. The vehemence of his defense versus the pussy cat attack suggests he doesn't really want to lynch Palmar. | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:05 syllogism wrote: I need to go, Probulous/VE/Katina push Palmar while I'm gone thanks. Anyone who is town has to vote Palmar today. Feel free to lynch me if he doesn't flip mafia.  I find it hilarious that two people who have lurked all game are defending Palmar with no evidence. They haven't even bothered to read the thread and contradict the cases against him. The evidence is there, we have pointed it out but suddenly he is town. | ||
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Like I said, if he was scum, why wouldn't he just claim "vig that can shoot from N2 onwards" or something? It doesn't make sense for him to fake-claim that as scum. Because that isn't strange is it It's quite simple really. slOosh realised he was on the wrong end of the Foolishness thing and so decided to save his bacon with a claim. Problem is that he had to find an excuse not to shoot Kurumi night 1 so he made up a delay thing. Then when people quetioned his use of the word delay he had to make up something that explained it. There is no difference between his claim and a night 2 vig. They are both weird and don't make sense. | ||
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On July 16 2012 17:59 Palmar wrote: As an alternative, sinani is trolling and taking part in dumb discussion so I'd be fine with killing him. is remarkably similar to this On February 13 2012 17:49 Palmar wrote: I think we should murder sinani206. At worst nothing of value will have been lost. From Werewolves where he was scum and successfully pushed for sinani's lynch. His efforts into labelling QBertz as sinani seem way over the top, especially that QBertz sounds nothing like sinani (could be roleplaying but I find it hard to believe QBertz is sinani). | ||
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On July 16 2012 21:19 Palmar wrote: This is of course assuming the analyst isn't terrible, but I'm not. He obviously believes he is an amazing analyst so where is his analysis, let's take a look. On July 16 2012 22:12 Palmar wrote: note to self: sandroba confirmed scum. In response to this On July 16 2012 22:07 sandroba wrote: Right I read through everything. I want to kill blazinghand. Smart people that disagree please post reasons! So wrong on both accounts here. What about this On July 17 2012 02:17 Palmar wrote: I agree with BlazingHand let's kill syllogism. Nice catch supersoft. Probably wrong as well. So next is MZ who could be scum, let's see the case On July 17 2012 22:49 Palmar wrote: MZ is one of my stronger scum suspicions. The main reason is the fact that he spent a lot of time chasing after opinions from me. Now, asking people questions is generally good, but MZ has played with me enough times to understand that if I'm not going to answer something, I just don't. Nothing he can do can change that. If I'm intent on trolling, I will troll, and you can't do shit about it. He should be familiar with my personality now, so while someone like syllo just assumed I was trolling and ignored the issue, MZ kept harping on about getting me to respond. Why would he do this? Not only is it an excellent way to contribute without ever risking contributing anything, because he was never going to get an answer for me, it's also a good set up for a later attack on me. Not a normal palmar case. Where is the vehemence and fire and passion. Note how passive the bolded is. This is a case meant to fail. + Show Spoiler [Passive pushes for MZ lynch] + On July 17 2012 23:26 Palmar wrote: But between lynching kurumi, and preferably killing MZ too, you have some time if you're town. On July 18 2012 00:52 Palmar wrote: I have no problem with kurumi nuking rol as I already explained. And I don't think BH will flip scum. If you want to lynch someone else, MZ would be my first choice. On July 18 2012 05:32 Palmar wrote: I also have no intention of lynching you right now, I want to lynch Kurumi, MZ, maybe gonzaw. I can only kill one guy a day On July 18 2012 05:35 Palmar wrote: regarding GGQ, he's super lurky when he's scum, but he kinda is as town too. It's not a bad call to lynch him based on his day 1 posting right now, but I'd prefer MZ On July 18 2012 07:35 Palmar wrote: Can we kill MZ instead pls? On July 18 2012 07:43 Palmar wrote: for emphasis ##Vote Meapak Then I post my initial case on Gonzaw and suddenly On July 18 2012 09:37 Palmar wrote: gonzaw is scum, you are correct. one million dollars for you bro. On July 18 2012 22:42 Palmar wrote: gonzaw is still 100% scum. So is meapak, and I'm pretty sure by now foolishness is one too. On July 22 2012 00:47 Palmar wrote: if you can shoot tonight kill foolishness, syllo, katina, BM, zealos etc Palmar is known for his analysis which he clearly states in the early game. He is then wrong about Sandroba and BH straight away. Then when he pushes MZ he posts a case that is weak as shit and then never actually pushes it. He even pleads for us to vote MZ but never forces the issue, despite it being clear that we were looking for targets. His language is passive and nonconfrontational. Then when I post my case on Gonzaw suddenly Gonzaw is the flavour of the month and not MZ, despite his constant pleas to vote off MZ. Ok, maybe Gonzw was a more feasible lynch but why is his shoot to kill list devoid of his target he was pushing all Day 1? I'll tell you why because he realised that MZ is probably the other Executive. | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:23 gonzaw wrote: I don't think Foo' ever said he wanted to lynch Palmar or even implied it. On July 21 2012 01:49 Foolishness wrote: It's fine to discuss potential lynch targets, the issue is that it is day two and literally every player has been accused. There's absolutely zero focus. One page people are talking about Zealos, 3 pages later it's about Chezinu. With so many cases it's hard to tell who is actually trying to make a case (townies) and who's just fueling the fire (mafia). From what I can see though the people of interest in this regard are Blazinghand (should be obvious by now), marvellosity, and HiroPro. supersoft, Mattchew, Probulous, Palmar and yourself are somewhat guilty but not to the same extent. On July 21 2012 03:21 Foolishness wrote: Sloosh, HiroPro, Bill Murray, MZ, austin, syllogism, GGQ, yourself, Kurumi, Mattchew, marvellosity, risk,nuke, Qbertz, Palmar, and Zealos. On July 22 2012 02:32 Foolishness wrote: Palmar - number of pages in filter by start of day 3 by game Mafia iGrok's Normal - 2.8 Emergency Mini - replaced in and had less than 1 page of filter Liar game - 3.5 Werewolves - 2.5 Town PYP redux - 3 JubJub - 4.2 Resistance 2 - 7 pages by start of Mission 3 Arkham City - 11.5 Mafia L - 3 pages at end of day 1 (he was lynched) Election Mafia - 9 pages under hydra with syllogism. This game you have barely made it to page 4....hmmm.... All soft accusations against him. Considering his absolute defense of Palmar Day 1, I consider this an accusation. My whole point is that he went out of his way to distance himself from his early defense without outright pushing Palmar like he did Syllo and BM. Foolishness was discredited basically from the get-go, I don't think anyone ever took his cases seriously, I know I didn't (with his BM case at least). I did. I took his original Syllo case very seriously. Are you reading the thread? Prob, what do you think of Katina or Zealos, and why would you want to lynch Palmar instead of any of them? Because I think he is more likely scum than those two. Zealos could be Zealos, could be town, could be scum. I mean Kurumi flipped town and we know Zealos wasn't reading the thread. Katina, right now is townie to me. I will always go back and reread but right now neither are deserving of the lynch. Both you guys have been absent and we have just killed two scum, but instead of trying to read carefully and see where we are coming from you jump into the thread with different targets and try to derail the lynch. Why? You don't present evidence for Palmar being town. Just that Palmar is Palmar. | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:48 slOosh wrote: Foolishness flipped the CEO - no-one knew his identity! Why would I make such a claim up on the spot when I know that both town and scum could easily make the same mistake and continue to fly under everyone's radar, yet doing what I did would not hide, but expose the seemingly contradiction in my stance with Foolishness? I agree that your choice to claim is strange. I just think your play up till this point does not match with your claim. So either you changed 180 degrees with no mention in the thread, or you are lying to put yourself back on towns` side. It doesn't matter right now as I am intent on lynching Palmar. You can redeem yourself in my eyes by providing some insight into layabout, Gonzaw and Palmar. I know you are good at finding inconsistencies and motivations, help me out here. | ||
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On July 23 2012 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I misread you hard last game slOosh, likewise I'm sure. Your claim is...the same as two other peoples'. One of you is going to die tomorrow. Which one is it going to be? Take a guess? Master VE, I hope the hat fits. Would you have any aversion to lynching Palmar? Oh and what do you make of Gonzaw and layabout... | ||
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it was from my phone if that means anything. | ||
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Right now it is 5:4 Palmar  ealos. Zealos is not going to be able to disrupt the thread whilst Palmar is certainly capable of misleading us. I also think Palmar is an executive, thus to me it makes sense to lynch him first even if Zealos is scum. Objections? | ||
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Can you explain the bank to me? I looked up Merc Mini where you were a bank but I didn't get the connection to this game. Oh and this would be a nice clarification too | ||
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@layabout What are your opinions on Risk.Nuke and Meapak? Also your reasons for thinking Palmar is town are required. | ||
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Thank you Hail the Chezimites! Hail Lord Viscera! | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:35 Probulous wrote: He obviously believes he is an amazing analyst so where is his analysis, let's take a look. In response to this So wrong on both accounts here. What about this Probably wrong as well. So next is MZ who could be scum, let's see the case Not a normal palmar case. Where is the vehemence and fire and passion. Note how passive the bolded is. This is a case meant to fail. + Show Spoiler [Passive pushes for MZ lynch] + On July 17 2012 23:26 Palmar wrote: But between lynching kurumi, and preferably killing MZ too, you have some time if you're town. On July 18 2012 00:52 Palmar wrote: I have no problem with kurumi nuking rol as I already explained. And I don't think BH will flip scum. If you want to lynch someone else, MZ would be my first choice. On July 18 2012 05:32 Palmar wrote: I also have no intention of lynching you right now, I want to lynch Kurumi, MZ, maybe gonzaw. I can only kill one guy a day On July 18 2012 05:35 Palmar wrote: regarding GGQ, he's super lurky when he's scum, but he kinda is as town too. It's not a bad call to lynch him based on his day 1 posting right now, but I'd prefer MZ On July 18 2012 07:35 Palmar wrote: Can we kill MZ instead pls? On July 18 2012 07:43 Palmar wrote: for emphasis ##Vote Meapak Then I post my initial case on Gonzaw and suddenly Palmar is known for his analysis which he clearly states in the early game. He is then wrong about Sandroba and BH straight away. Then when he pushes MZ he posts a case that is weak as shit and then never actually pushes it. He even pleads for us to vote MZ but never forces the issue, despite it being clear that we were looking for targets. His language is passive and nonconfrontational. Then when I post my case on Gonzaw suddenly Gonzaw is the flavour of the month and not MZ, despite his constant pleas to vote off MZ. Ok, maybe Gonzw was a more feasible lynch but why is his shoot to kill list devoid of his target he was pushing all Day 1? I'll tell you why because he realised that MZ is probably the other Executive. | ||
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You got shitty with VE. You got shitty with Supersoft and now you are getting shitty with BM. | ||
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On July 24 2012 07:55 marvellosity wrote: Probe you best be town my friend You know what is useful in these games? READING Honestly Marv you haven't bothered reading and now you're complaining without knowing anything. Save your berth and read. Thn come back when you have something. From phone. | ||
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I will comment on Katina when it matters. Right now we are focused on Palmar. No one has said why he is town so I don't understand the fuss. I mean if he flips town then literally none believed he was town before hand so his play has been atrocious. His claim means nothing because as VE says his play is so nonexistent that even if it is true we can't work it out beforehand. BM is town. Marv is likely town but I am less sure. My point is that if you have no idea what is going on in this game it is your responsibility to read. Asking me if I am town is dumb because I have proven my alignment. It shows a lack of reading. | ||
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I think MZ is the other executive and Palmar never knew this. Palmar is smart, he would easily pick up on how MZ was going with the flow on Day 1 but he cannot push him hard because of his vet status he might be an exec. Then suddenly come Day 2, he stops mentioning MZ at all. Why? Well because Foolishness has found a way to let his execs know who their buddy is. | ||
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On July 24 2012 09:01 Mattchew wrote: I hope you guys are right Well no one told me why I am wrong (if I am). Why is this? | ||
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On July 24 2012 09:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous, I'm going to hold you PERSONALLY responsible for this flip. That cool bro? Fine. I stand by my read. | ||
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On July 24 2012 09:11 Mattchew wrote: Prob I find/found it weird that you were unwilling to discuss Katina with me. Usually you and Gonzaw are both extremely longwinded and willing to type out your thoughts on literally anything at anytime. With so many votes on Palmar he was/is set to be lynched and you STILL refused to answer questions about her. There is something different about you this game See Day 1. I worked like an all mighty bitch to get a lynch of either Gonzaw (my preferred) or BH (backup). By my reads that would be a choice between two scum which explains why it was so hard. My point though is that the no lynch was facilitated because people were allowed to bring in other targets. I was one of them. Take it as lesson learnt. Palmar is my strongest read and so I have pushed him. If you want to lynch someone else, then explain why my case is wrong and I will consider yours. Until you do that I am not risking a no lynch simply because someone else might be scum. You forget we have less voting power than usual. | ||
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On July 24 2012 09:18 Mattchew wrote: Lol you forget that other cases may be as good if not stronger than yours. Didn't you chastise (or atleast allow people to chastise) me for doing the exact same thing to my strongest read Katina? I don't see you revoking my claims in order to push my vote onto Palmar. Why should I do something that you are not willing to do yourself? That's a fair point. To counter I posit that Palmar is more likely to be an Exec than Katina and so a more useful lynch. Besides, the choice was really between Zealos and Palmar. Katina never went anywhere, we can look at her tomorrow. As for Zealos, well when he flips, he will flip Zealos. The guy looks like scum when he is town and given Kurumi's flip I am sceptical of Sandroba PM plans acually outing scum and not dumb town. Again I go back to my original point, if you wanted my vote, I made it clear how to get it. | ||
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On July 24 2012 09:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous, I'm going to hold you PERSONALLY responsible for this flip. That cool bro? and you doubted me | ||
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On July 24 2012 10:27 marvellosity wrote: That's not demotivating. You being unnecessarily sarcastic is. Last time I checked, "what are your reasons for calling someone scum, when the only one presented is setup gaming based on extremely incomplete information" was not an unreasonable question. Marv, don't get drawn in. VE is being tricksy. We are in a good position (3 scum baby!) so we need to consolidate it. Given Palmar's flip can you take a look at MZ's filter fo me? | ||
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On July 24 2012 10:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous, explain your comment to marv immediately. What do you mean by "VE is being tricksy"? Do you want me to tell town your secret? Really? Because I was totally going to wait until we flipped Chez... Ok, since you asked. I assumed you are pushing Chez because you want mafia to spare him. Of course that is no longer an option because you outed it. If you seriously think Chez is getting lynched tomorrow then you will need to be more persuasive than you have been. I have found Chez quite useful actually. His trolling is just his style of play and using that as an excuse to lynch makes 0 sense. I also note that the people most annoyed with his trolling have been scum. In addition his questions around Sandroba were good ones, we didn't have enough information to resolve the PM stuff so there is no harm is positing an alternate explanation. As you say, all it took was a single PM. Build a case and I'll reconsider but right now he is one of my stronger town reads. | ||
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On July 24 2012 11:02 VisceraEyes wrote: I have no desire to save Chez from mafia. On the contrary, I want them to shoot the piss out of him so A) the thread is sane and B) my theory can be further proven/disproven. What do you make of the fact that Chezinu hasn't outted who he's messaged and no one has claimed receiving a message from him Probulous? It means he didn't send a message Or that he was bussing his scum mates earlier like you suspected sandroba of doing. Or he sent a message to a dead guy. Or the person who received it doesn't want to post it. I need to recheck what messages come from where because it still confuses me. Shooting/lynching Chez because of his posting style is dumb. If that is part of your case, why have you not mentioned QBertz? Chez is making an effort at least. | ||
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My running theory is to distance himself as much as possible from his original Foolishness defense. Night 1 had no vigs so mafia assume there are no vigs, or they are delayed. Then when Foolishness flips they know someone will claim that shot, so they claim first. Remember this is a closed setup so we don't know if there are multiple vigs, his claims adds nothing to the discussion because we cannot verify it. All it does it give him a shot at town cred. Unfortunately for him, it was supersoft not someone like Zealos, who counter claimed. The claim itself is my sticking point as well and anyway I look at it, I come up with a null. It doesn't say anything really. What does the rest of his filter say? | ||
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You're not typically this....obtuse, Probulous. Considering the scum flip, I'd think you'd be pretty excited and happy. But your super-serious tone is sticking out like a sore thumb. You weren't pleased with that flip. Why? Because I expected it I trust my reads. I was almost 100% certain palmar was scum, no need to jump around. Remember, this is a big game, my small game play is very different because it is typically much easier to prove your aligment (for me at aleast). You say Chez is trolling, how is that alignment indicative? It isn't and so I am ignoring it. Now yes Chez did put the idea of a scum Sandroba into your head. As you found out it was easy to resolve. The purpose of this as far as I can see from a scum Chez point of view is just to fuck with you. I mean he must have known Sandroba could clear himself and besides if he was bussing his team mates he would run out of messages and team mates. He knew that a Sandroba flip would implicate him based on his own theory so why push for his lynch? | ||
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On July 24 2012 11:39 VisceraEyes wrote: He didn't push for his lynch...that's my point. He voted with me, but he never "pushed" the lynch at all. He left that to me, the townie. He wanted the lynch to fail. Because it would implicate him as scum. Ok so what is the upside then? | ||
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Why plant the idea in your head. It was clear to everyone that he was the genesis of the idea and if you did manage to lynch Sandroba you could rightly point back to Chez as the source. Again, it implicates him. Further more if he was the genesis of the idea of matching roles, why not keep Sandroba around? I mean as you say Sandroba's flip implicates Chez with his own logic so why even suggest it? I fail to see the motive here. | ||
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On July 24 2012 11:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Interesting...you are trying to argue that because there's no upside that it means he didn't do the thing. Am I reading that wrong? Because he doesn't have a readily available motive, that he didn't do it? Because I can assure you he did. I don't know why he does what he does, that's a byproduct of his playstyle which you're defending. My point is that he did put that idea in my head, he did back off it when Sandroba flipped, he did support the Sand lynch but he did not push the wagon. These are all facts, in the thread. I never said he didn't do anything. I said I fail to see the mafia motive behind them. Like I said earlier, he knew my role name which could have caused my misslynch (speculation but it is a bad name). Instead he chose to work out what my role does and then keep a secret, in a way that benefited me and ultimately town. Why would Chez do this as mafia and not as town? The same goes for his crazy shit with you, if you don't know why Chez does stuff then you don't know why he would do it as scum or as town. Maybe you need to explain it from the beginning with a clear through line explaining how his actions benefit mafia. I am defending Chez because of his actions towards me and his reads. | ||
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On July 24 2012 12:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Maybe you can help me out here then Prob: Tell me EXACTLY what happened when he "figured out your role name". Tell me how you know he "knew" your role name, and tell me why you think that it could have caused your mislynch. I am the Promotions Manager Note, I have a management role name. I clearly have a role and that role involves giving other people roles. Sound scummy to you? One aspect of my role is to give the lynch to one person overnight, that was you. Here is the exchange between Chez and I. He randomly started suggesting I was a senior level mafia. + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2012 11:34 Chezinu wrote: I have a Problem with Prob Probably cause he is an executive mafia... On July 20 2012 11:45 Chezinu wrote: Shh, be quite... Prob is going through a tough time right now.. He tried laughing it off.. but deep down, he is r scared! On July 20 2012 11:47 Chezinu wrote: I was trying to imply that you are the chairman of the board? Was that what I was doing? On July 20 2012 11:56 Chezinu wrote: Are you scared prob? you know.. that I know your secret? Are you going to answer me? On July 20 2012 11:58 Chezinu wrote: Who do you work for? you Probably don't know...if you get what i mean.. muahahha Which is an obvious crumb regarding my title. Note the bolded. On July 20 2012 12:01 Chezinu wrote: ya know, mini mafia 2 was a pretty fun game.. but this is taking it to a whole new level! In this game he was a detective. I assumed that he had worked out I had a management title starting with Pro through some detective ability. On July 20 2012 12:16 Probulous wrote: OK I just skimmed that game and you were a detective. If you are implying that you are the same this game (you have of course claimed as such) with a check on me, then something is seriously whack. Chez, I know this isn't your style but can you be a little less obtuse? If you have a check on me than that is information we need to sort out. I think he has a list of rolename and can check one person during the day to see what name they have. Once I understood this I tried to explain it to him. On July 20 2012 12:25 Probulous wrote: Okay I get it. Your interpretation is wrong, but I think I understand your role now. You're going through the motions aren't you? On July 20 2012 13:40 Chezinu wrote: I'm glad you understand. Your a sturdy player. Sorry for the delayed response, the power went out and just came back on. he then digs further with this On July 20 2012 14:47 Probulous wrote: Not quite. Promotion seems a long way off and I haven't received the call. I wish I had minions, I'd make them crown me king and carry me through the office on their shoulders. But right now I am just a regular worker bee, carrying others around. His response to rastaban was that when he suggests people are mafia through questions he doesn't actually think they are mafia. My response is a clear explanation of part of my role that involves Kingmaking. I even mention the word king. What does Chez do? Now can you see why I trust him almost completely. He knew my role before I could use it. If he was scum he could out me and push for my lynch, or he could out my role and get me shot. He doesn't bring it up at all. | ||
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On July 24 2012 14:08 Chezinu wrote: oh... so BH didn't kill The Fool after failing to kill him and then ending up stabbing him with that coffee mug.. You serious The giant picture of a crown didn't give it away. I mean I said quite clearly that VE was going to get some silverware and then he types ##lynch BH and suddenly BH dies but you don't connect the two? For someone who expects us to work out your clues you don't spend much time working out ours. Hmm this suggests you didn't actually know that I could do that. What did you think this meant On July 20 2012 14:47 Probulous wrote: Not quite. Promotion seems a long way off and I haven't received the call. I wish I had minions, I'd make them crown me king and carry me through the office on their shoulders. But right now I am just a regular worker bee, carrying others around. | ||
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Me too | ||
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On July 25 2012 08:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't follow, I pretty clearly was reading Palmar as town until midway through yesterday...to be honest, I'm astounded no one has called me out on it yet. Why? You're clearly town, why cast doubt on you? It's a dumb play. | ||
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On July 25 2012 08:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not - you are with this post. Interesting..... ROFL, VE I love your skepticism. My point is why would people call you out on your Palmar stance if we think you are town? It makes no sense as it casts doubt on you for no reason. | ||
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Who would expect two kingmakers??? Did you VE? | ||
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On July 25 2012 09:38 marvellosity wrote: Don't tell me you didn't know something was coming Probe, he's been needling you for a little while now Yeah but it is VE. I mean, like I said, I like his scepticism. No reason to completely trust anyone. Anyway, I am happy to be responsible for the lynch tomorrow. | ||
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On July 25 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Considering I've been considering the probability of mirrored scum to town Power-roles, then yeah...I was pretty much expecting a second kingmaker. That's a hella powerful scum role. It removes town only real power. I highly doubt that scum minions have no idea who their managment or brethren are so giving them a kingmaker role screws over town majorly. It was partly why I was so confident in proving my alignment, I mean a scum kingmaker is pretty ridiculous. | ||
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I give you Kurumi and RoL as counter evidence. Yes not exactly the same role but certainly very similar and no similar role for scum. | ||
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Tomorrow, MZ dies. | ||
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On July 25 2012 09:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: What I am concerned about is someone pulling a lone ranger act and shooting me without warning. I won't do that. Right now I am convinced but I will obviously go back an recheck my analysis. I am not stupid. | ||
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Speaking of when is deadline? I thought it was an hour ago | ||
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BTW thanks VE! I am now officially a king. | ||
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I know I said I wouldn't argue but I really cannot understand your logic and this is hella important.
So either you don't believe there are mirror roles in which case you have been lying and discrediting me for no reason, or you believe there are mirror roles and therefore I am scum. If that is the case then you gave scum a free day vig. Alternatively you don't know my alignment and are planning on using my choice to judge me. This seems the most reasonable (and is what you said) but then why suggest I am scum? You could have just given me the role and let me do my business. Then you judge me just the same, this suggestion that I am mafia makes your choice illogical. I chose you because you were my strongest town read and I agreed with your reads. It's that simple. The fruit was born when you lynched Blazinghand. To be honest I was expecting you to choose Foolishness but he died before you could. It doesn't matter though. The whole point of the role is that you trust the person with a lynch. But you go out of your way to make it clear you don't trust me. Why? | ||
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Curve ball accepted. I assume you want me to pick someone at least a little controversial, otherwise how do you get a read on me right? | ||
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## lynch layabout Do you want reasons or are you just happy to let me take the responsibility for his flip? | ||
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Honestly, rereading MZ's filter, it looks better than I thought it did. He pushed BH hard until he was lynched and has been generally active. His case against rastaban is the worst part of his filter though, it is almost like he decided to follow my advice from Day 1 and just tunnel someone. His latest stuff is better so hopefully he will improve. Zealos was another option but I have a problem with outright lynching him. Why would he remove the first line from the sandroba PM? He knew sandroba had the original so he knew he would be called out on it. It is a dumb move which reflects the rest of his game. Does that make him scum? I will need convincing. | ||
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On July 25 2012 13:04 VisceraEyes wrote: No, we don't do things for reasons here Prob. *sigh* I'm happy to let you take responsibility for your actions. If you choose to not give reasoning that's your deal. I think layabout was a decent choice, though there are others I'd have chosen first. Hey you put me in thsi position. Think about it, if I wrote up a huge post explaining my reasons scum would use it to say I am setting up excuses for when he flips town. He is dying anyway, so what use does the post provide? It just allows scum to cast doubt on me. | ||
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The post you quote is focused on Palmar, not MZ. Yes, I didn't look over MZ last night. We have a whole day and I certainly didn't expect to die. I was sure that Syllo or Supersoft were next. The reason I didn't just straight up pull the trigger is because I CAN BE WRONG! Geez, I went back and reread and took my time and now that makes me scum? I don't have any reads that are 100% like yesterday. Having a day vig is a big responsibility so I wanted to be sure. Tell me this VE, if I had lynched MZ or Zealos, could you not point out that most of town wanted that? It is an easy decision with no real ramifications because I could legitiamtely blame everyone else as well. You gave me this to check my alignment, well I gave you something to think about. You're being illogical because I am not behaving how you expect me too. Instead of jumping to conclusions, take a break and think clearly. I never gave reasons for lynching laya, I gave reasons for not lynching MZ or Zealos because that is what you expected me to do. You expected a MZ or Zealos lynch so I explained why I chose not to lynch them. I will write up my case now because clearly that is what you want. | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote: Shit that makes layabout scummy: Read his filter first, it's not long at all. Keep that in mind for a second. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=233798 He does nothing but shed doubt on sandro's claim. He instantly disbelieves it without considering other evidence. He knows the caliber of sandro's town play yet he doesn't even acknowledge the possibility that sandro could be town. In addition he's stayed toward the back of the discussion, as he does when he is scum. When he is town he is out in front if he thinks people are being stupid. He will kick and scream and call people retarded if they're doing something he disagrees with. Clearly he disagrees with us sheeping sandro on his catch of Kurumi (otherwise why else would he shed doubt on it?) but notice that he actually doesn't do anything to stop the wagon. i.e. his doubt is unfounded and he wants to undermine sandro without taking heat for the action itself. Scum tactic. Which I expanded upon here On July 17 2012 15:13 Probulous wrote: Thanks for that Gonzaw. About layabout Here is the entirety of layabouts filter Firstly, he assumes Sandro can send more than one message per day, or alternatively that he will live overnight. Given he has outed a scum that is highly unlikely. We all know Sandro is a deadly when on form so I would be surprised if he lives till tomorrow (he even stated as much). More damning though is that layabout didn't even bother to follow up on his question. I can understand forgetting a question here and there (it's a busy thread) but his only contribution this whole game has been to question the validity of Sandro's claim. It serves no purpose, especially that Kurumi has confirmed Sandro's claim. In addition, bugs correctly pointed out that layabout is very vocal when he is town. I played with him in Werewolves and he was killed early because he was way too calm and clear. He lurked a lot in my other game with him when we were both mafia (Wiggles Mini II). There isn't much to go on but what is there is pretty bad. Note that his lurking is indicative of his alignment. He is not normally a lurker unless he rolls scum. This post has already been pointed out by Syllo but it is worth rementioning On July 23 2012 09:32 layabout wrote: If we leave the Palmar defense for now, why post this? At this point Foolishness had flipped so his read can be discounted as invalid. We had presented evidence against Palmar to which he disagreed but there is obviously doubt about Foolishness' alignment. The fact that laya casts doubt on Syllo based on two scum's cases is atrocious. He has no reason to believe they have more knowledge about Syllo than we do, and more importantly that they would be genuine in their read given they are scum. Like who seriously puts stock into flipped mafia's cases, especially after night 1? It just serves to cast doubt on Syllo for no reason. I still think we should lynch zealos. >>CLICK<< ##vote zealos I think it's worth bearing in mind that both Palmar and Foolishness expressed the opinion that syllogism is mafia and continued to do so. A large part of why syllogism was not a lynch candidate early on was that the players that know him well can easily tell his alignment after a few days. Why are people voting for Palmar? I haven't seen anything concrete. Anyway he come out hard defending Palmar here. Saying there is no evidence. He goes back and forth with Syllo continuously stating that there is no case against Palmar. When I point out how stupid this is he responds with this On July 23 2012 10:13 layabout wrote: This is the first day that there has been time and reason to debate the lynch target. There are many reasons to lynch zealos and we should. Where are these cases against Palmar that you speak of? All i see is aggressive pushing and no reasoning and it stinks. I shake my head and realise he won't read the thread so I post some stuff. Twice. On July 23 2012 10:35 Probulous wrote: He obviously believes he is an amazing analyst so where is his analysis, let's take a look. In response to this So wrong on both accounts here. What about this Probably wrong as well. So next is MZ who could be scum, let's see the case Not a normal palmar case. Where is the vehemence and fire and passion. Note how passive the bolded is. This is a case meant to fail. + Show Spoiler [Passive pushes for MZ lynch] + On July 17 2012 23:26 Palmar wrote: But between lynching kurumi, and preferably killing MZ too, you have some time if you're town. On July 18 2012 00:52 Palmar wrote: I have no problem with kurumi nuking rol as I already explained. And I don't think BH will flip scum. If you want to lynch someone else, MZ would be my first choice. On July 18 2012 05:32 Palmar wrote: I also have no intention of lynching you right now, I want to lynch Kurumi, MZ, maybe gonzaw. I can only kill one guy a day On July 18 2012 05:35 Palmar wrote: regarding GGQ, he's super lurky when he's scum, but he kinda is as town too. It's not a bad call to lynch him based on his day 1 posting right now, but I'd prefer MZ On July 18 2012 07:35 Palmar wrote: Can we kill MZ instead pls? On July 18 2012 07:43 Palmar wrote: for emphasis ##Vote Meapak Then I post my initial case on Gonzaw and suddenly Palmar is known for his analysis which he clearly states in the early game. He is then wrong about Sandroba and BH straight away. Then when he pushes MZ he posts a case that is weak as shit and then never actually pushes it. He even pleads for us to vote MZ but never forces the issue, despite it being clear that we were looking for targets. His language is passive and nonconfrontational. Then when I post my case on Gonzaw suddenly Gonzaw is the flavour of the month and not MZ, despite his constant pleas to vote off MZ. Ok, maybe Gonzw was a more feasible lynch but why is his shoot to kill list devoid of his target he was pushing all Day 1? I'll tell you why because he realised that MZ is probably the other Executive. To which I get no response. In fact he hasn't bothered to comment on anything since then. Why? Because his only reason for defending Palmar evaporated into thin air. TLDR: layabout irrationally cast doubt on both Sandroba and Syllo. Then he defended Palmar because "there were no cases against him" but when evidence was presented he refused to comment on them. He is lurking like he does when he is scum. | ||
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On July 25 2012 13:53 supersoft wrote: GJ VE! i told you guys to give this power to me and i'll lynch MZ. GJ! if you have the choice between 1) someone who shot the mafia CEO n2, catched the other scumvet AND who is listing the guy you want to get killed on his scumlist ALL game long 2) someone who gave you power for no real reason you manage to chose the second guy! ESPECIALLY after a night like this!!! no death means that something is wrong in the scumteam! now we have this situation. we cant be sure about probulus anymore because he decided to do unexpected stuff Well I asked him to explain why he never gave it you but he didn't. Do you think laya is scum? | ||
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On July 24 2012 22:09 supersoft wrote: first stage suspects: sloosh, meapak, gonzaw second stage suspects: zealos, layabout, austin third stage suspects: rastaban, Mattchew, marvellosity, Q-bert-Z Given he is in your list of scum (sure second tier but he certainly is there) I don't see what your problem is with my choice? VE would have had to have chosen who gets the crown last night. So the no death thing doesn't come into it. I agree you were a better choice (well kind of, I know I am town so he got that part right) but I don't see why you think I am scum. Doing "unexpected" things that fit with your reads, shouldn't impact on your read of me. | ||
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On July 25 2012 14:25 supersoft wrote: hah! This is finally something I completely support! :-D Anyways I have a problem with the night. Why didn't anyone die? I'm assuming someone was protected. Bugs dying night 1 could be explained by the medic protecting Sandro. Why he wasn't protected night 2 is a mystery though. If there was a vet around I would have expected a claim. Alternatively maybe there is a scum mechanic which can save shots for later? Or maybe they shot a bullet proof third party role... | ||
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ROFl I am beast mode this game  | ||
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A dud nuke for scum, maybe there might be a scum nuke out there after all. But why haven't scum used it yet? | ||
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On July 25 2012 14:48 Mattchew wrote: how could they without being rash and scummy. just look at kurumi Hmm good point. I guess as long as we keep killing scum it makes it harder for them to explain it if they use their nuke. Double win. I just want to point out that we have killed four scum since the last townie died. This feels good | ||
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On July 25 2012 14:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Please be MZ. Please be MZ. Everyone votes on Probulous. Do it immediately. Like seriously what is this shit? | ||
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On July 25 2012 14:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait what? Oh I'm sorry, that flip pretty much PROVES that the power roles are mirrored. It DIRECTLY implicates you and Chezinu as scum. DIRECTLY sir. I don't care that you just lynched layabout, you could have had no idea that he'd flip scum. YOU ARE THE SCUM KINGMAKER PROBULOUS!!! Well you're wrong. That is all I can say. You are throwing out my entire game where I have sucesfully pushed lynch after lynch of scum AND I PLAYED YOUR STUPID GAME SUCESSFULLY simply because you believe that the setup requires a scum kingmaker. I ask you this VE, if you somehow manage to convince the jubjubs to lynch me and I flip town, what is proven? That your theory is dumb, illogical and downright stupid, or that you are scum? | ||
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No I would not be willing to lynch Chez today. I am concerned that he promised to post more clearly as well as his reads but he has yet to do either. Again your entire case against him boils down to him trolling (he does this as both alignments) and his mirror role which clearly I believe has nothing to do with his alignment. You can try and bully town to believe your fairy tale bullshit but I am not entering the store. | ||
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On July 25 2012 15:18 Mattchew wrote: ##vote Chezinu if we are going to test this theory on someone, it might as well be the least useful of those we are trying to test it on (and the one with a direct town-flipped counterpart) This is downright stupid. Think about it, we have two confirmed mirror roles. What does a third do? If you think Chez is scum because of his actions, then post a case, but lynching him because we want to test the mirror role thing is scummy as all hell. It has been "tested" and twice it has been found to be true. So if you accept that it is true that every role has a mirror than you can push Chez based on your belief but not to "test" it. | ||
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What exactly does another flip tell us that the previous ones haven't? It's a really bad reason to lynch someone. @Meapak Why did Zealos leave out the first line from sandroba's PM? I just don't understand how his reaction to sandroba makes him scum. Either he deliberately chose to remove that line and not respond to sandroba in thread, or he is dumb and wasn't reading. Wait a second, maybe he expected Sandroba to die that night alleviating him of the need to post the PM? But that doesn't explain why he left out the first line. I don't get it, can someone explain to me? | ||
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Again, if you vote Chez for his playstyle then you will lynch him as town as much as scum. Maybe you are happy with that. Contrary to what you may think Chez has been awesome this game. Take a look at his reads. I don't want to lynch someone who has been right so often. | ||
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On July 25 2012 15:44 Mattchew wrote: no one else has had their vote stolen. So BM's role hasn't been mirror'd. But where would it have been useful? Day was a no-lynch without the role and the other lynches have been almost unanimous. What is the point in revealing the role when it wouldn't make a difference to the outcome. It would be a decent play to wait until there are a few people left and bust it out then to secure a misslynch. | ||
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On July 25 2012 15:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: wait probulous are you saying that you think the mirror theory is correct? No. I was simply responding to Matt who does. It is possible that it is correct. If Chez and Sandroba are the mirrors of the Chairman of the Board amd Marketing, then we have space for the power roles. It would mean a scum VE which would pain me severely. I have liked his play this game and I would feel real shitty to get played like that. There are some questions that would need to be answered but his actions could be explained by a mafia viewpoint. He shot BH because he was pushing BH from early and didn't want to out himself. BH was going to die so why not take the cred. He gave me the lynch because he has no more non-scummy buddies to give it too. He was hoping I misslynched hence his attempts to discredit me beforehand. His whole reason for giving me the lynch was to "test" me and when I pass I am suddenly scum? He needs to get me lynched but I have played pretty well this game so he needs to find another way. So he uses the mirror thing to get the jump on me and try and convince people that I am scum based on roles. His attempts to discredit Chez makes sense as well because Chez has had good reads all game. What I don't understand is why he would offer himself as a 1:1 trade. Surely when I flip he will flip next, so why bother? | ||
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From phone | ||
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Just skimmed but I am happy to vote ## Gonzaw | ||
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On July 26 2012 06:35 gonzaw wrote: I think someone asked why would scum Zealos not out the "incriminate" part from sandro's message. ...well, for one I'd ask myself why scum Zealos wouldn't out the whole message in the first place, since he knew sandro made a similar trick with Kurumi and even said in the thread that he'd PM someone a message he wanted to out. But well, maybe he was indeed a minion who was never messaged before. Anyways, the point is that if he's town, and was indeed dumb enough to keep the message for some reason, he'd have no reason to out the whole message, even the "incriminating" part. If he was town he'd post it all, but he didn't. It makes perfect sense as "outed" scum at that point. He leaves out the incriminating part of the message so people don't think it was an "obvious scum message", and hopes sandro doesn't read it. Sandro already knew the message he sent him, so if he saw a thing similar to it that Zealos posted he'd know it was the message he sent, but it was possible he didn't strictly read the whole message trying to find inconsistencies (since he knew that message was his, he already knew the content). I think Zealos was counting on that: sandro not reading the whole message Zealos posted and not outing the "incriminating" part. Because the alternative, that Zealos is town and deliberately cut out that part and never mentioned it again, is EXTREMELY hard to believe, specially with Zealos' behaviour this whole game (i.e he doesn't seem to care about it). At least you tried to address my concerns. Essentially you are saying that when he realised he was caught he thought that leaving out the first line and hoping Sandro would not read it, would allow people to question whether the PM sounded like a scum PM... So he expected people to read the message but not Sandro, eventhough people were going to discuss the contents of the message? It's dumb, like completely stupid. But even if we accept your premise, why would he do that only as scum. Bare in mind he had been caught not posting the PM. Everyone was already baying for his blood, a smarter player would realise that being upfront with everything is a better move but clearly Zealos wasn't thinking straight. I could see a dumb town Zealos trying to make himself look good by leaving out that first line in exactly the same way a dumb scum Zealos would. Until there is a reasonable explanation for why he would do that only as scum and get away with it I have no reason to use the PM thing to lynch him. Remember Kurmui flipped town getting caught in a very similar manner. His absence is really annoying though. Here I am out on a limb for him and he doesn't bother to post anything. | ||
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I think we have two mafia here. The similarity of this lynch to the no lynch is pretty striking. Aside from Gonzaw being involved in both we have the game evenly split. If Gonzaw flips scum then this theory gains strength. Gonzaw's straight up defense of Palmar for no reason is very similar to layabout. It was trying to destroy a strong case for no reason. His insistence of lynching Zealos without seriously considering Meapak is pretty damning. Here is his stance on MZ On July 17 2012 06:22 gonzaw wrote: Don't know what's up with Kurumi/BH since I didn't read, but MZ's initial posts I skimmed from the first pages and so seemed too passive indeed, although I don't know if he'd be that "obvious" as scum (I remember Liar Game where he started acting anti-town and scummy all of a sudden at one point, like in D2 or D3 so he could easily do the same here). On July 18 2012 08:31 gonzaw wrote: I don't see MZ being scum after skimming his filter. His initial read is that MZ is town, or rather not scum (this is no not a town Gonzaw thing to do). He says that MZ is passive but gives himself and excuse in the same sentence. There is no need to justify your read that early with such contortions, guilty mindset regarding MZ. Yes it was early and he probably didn't know if MZ was his scum buddy but that explains his reticence in taking a stand. But then suddenly On July 25 2012 07:29 gonzaw wrote: Haven't read MZ by now, nor checked austin's recent posts, but by what I've seen it's likely they are both scum (I don't remember MZ posting at all since D2 :/ ). Despite not reading his filter he is sure enough that MZ hadn't posted enoug, so he must be scum. A complete 180 based on non-evidence. Basically a hidden sheep position. On July 25 2012 11:58 gonzaw wrote: About MZ: I don't see nothing inherently scummy with his D1 play actually. He seems aggressive and involved in discussions. But damn he stopped playing after that. Like 2 and a half pages of his filter come from D1, but only 1 and a half come from N1 onwards, and he doesn't post anything really interesting there. The only scumhunting I've seen from him is calling rastaban out, and accuse Zealos/Kurumi/BH/Foolishness with little reasons; after that he just seems to argue with people and reiterate things over and over and not contribute with nothing else. Yeah I wouldn't mind him dying. I'm not very confident in him being scum though, but I was wrong before and I trust that all of VE/Prob/syllo/etc are not idiots and see him as scum so he may as well be. Now he is back to scum but look, again he gives himself an out. He is saying that MZ is scum but goes to extreme lengths to distance himself from his position. He downplays his confidence and then uses the rest of us as justification for his position. On July 25 2012 12:00 gonzaw wrote: MZ, what do you think of Katina, austin and other people discussed by now? Yes, you've said "lynch Zealos" ever since N1, we already know you think he's scum.....so? What else? You can't think you complaining about people are considered contributions. Plus if you are really town and you know you'll likely get killed by Prob/lynch you should post all your reads and try to contribute as fast as you can to make sure people know what you think once you die and are "confirmed town". This is one of only a few times that Gonzaw ever talks directly to MZ and look at how soft it is. He supposedly thinks MZ is scum but he asks questions in a completely passive manner. He is almost pleading here. On July 26 2012 05:21 gonzaw wrote: I don't agree with this "either gonzaw or MZ" dichotomy at all either. I wouldn't mind MZ dying but he's not my top suspect. Does someone think Zealos/Katina/austin is town? Do some of you really think MZ is more likely scum than one of them? If so then please explain His final mention of MZ where he says he is happy to lynch MZ. If you take the entirety of Gozaw's push against MZ it comes down to sheeping others whilst heaping doubt on the case. He nevers defends MZ, he never corrects perceptions or tries to find an answer. He simply blissfully follows which is so contra town Gonzaw that he must be mafia. Finally, I pushed him really hard Day 1 for his passivity and gentle play. He knows we are watching that so he has been aggressive in defending himself. He gets angry and shouts and swears and shows off his agressive side but it is never in finding scum. It is always defending himself. This actually reminds me of our first game together Gonz when you went apeshit at me for suggesting you were mafia. Turns out you were but I fell for your shenanigans and you won the game. Not this time my friend. ##Vote Gonzaw | ||
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Because you have never mentioned your stance on Gonzaw. You called him scum on Day 1 based on my case but since then he has disapeared from your reads but when time comes to lynch him suddenly Meapak is the scum not Gonzaw. Sure you might think MZ a better lynch but completely ignoring Gonzaw (as far as we can tell) is pretty damning. | ||
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On July 26 2012 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous good news! I've figured out how we can both be town! ^^. ROFL, you're such an ass | ||
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On July 26 2012 09:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Though for the record, I still didn't like you "assuming" what answers I wanted or what actions I wanted you to take. I would have rather you flipped MZ or Zeal...but I'm not gonna split hairs anymore. A scum flip is a scum flip. If we go 5 for 5 I'm throwing us a little party. I don't even care if scum are helping us kill each other off at this point - 4 in a row goes beyond "some scum ploy" and ventures into "we're doing something right". Well I asked what you wanted and you threw it back in my face so I had to assume. | ||
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You know what I am going to give this a go anyway Could the lawyer pardon a kingmaker lynch? | ||
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On July 26 2012 10:49 gonzaw wrote: You are basically assuming me and MZ are scum and I know he's scum, and trying to nitpick stuff that shows that. Even if both of us were scum, unless me/him were supervisor/minion I wouldn't even know he was scum (and trust me, when I'm scum I have shitty reads of other scum as well, just check Liar Game) Explain to me where exactly I said I assume both of you are scum. My point is not that you know MZ is scum it is that you haven't bothered to take a position on the person on the opposing wagon. You are actively avoiding mentioning him and instead are determined to lynch Zealos. It is clear that Zealos is going nowhere today, there are virtually no votes on him, so why do you not bother to try and work out MZ? I mean if you think he is town, then we are all wrong but you can't be bothered to even try and convince us. If you think he is scum you have done everything in your power to step back from that position. You want us to ignore your opinion on MZ, given he is the only likely candidate for lynch today that is not you, why would you do this? About MZ, I'm actually not very sure of him being scum. Yes, it's possible he's scum for reasons I've stated, and some people (that are likely town) that are so sure about him may indicate they saw something I didn't, but I'm not actually sure after reading his filter even more. He seems too confident even when all players accuse him, and his behaviour seems similar to Liar Game which is why I'm wary (i.e he has that aggressive/confident tone in his posts in this game as well). Now that you are forced to take a position you say he is too confident thereby suggesting a scum MZ would not be confident? Like how is this a defense? You did exactly the same thing with Palmar. You tried to stop our lynch with bad reasoning and the only other target you bang on about is Zealos. I also agree that Zealos was an "easy bus" for many players (palmar, layabout, etc), but that's because it was pretty apparent he was scum and his scumbuddies would have no choice but to bus him. If nobody even pays attention to him or votes him it makes it even easier for them to bus him, since apparently he was never in danger of getting lynched. I haven't heard a single reason for why Zealos is town, I've only heard people (like Prob) saying that he might have been dumb townie and did the whole sandro incident by accident, but nothing else. See here again, why do I have to prove Zealos is town. For all I know he may be mafia, but the reasons you are providing don't prove squat. Marvell and Hiro have pointed out some other stuff, which I already have banked for later, but you are content to push based solely on Sandroba's gambit which we know can catch dumb town. Saying that it is "pretty apparent" that he is scum is not case, especially when I am pointing out townie explanations for the only evidence you have presented. See I think you are too lazy to actually build a case that is not based on the PM. I think you are content to do enough to look like you are hunting for mafia. | ||
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## vote slOosh From phone | ||
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On July 27 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote: Probulous - what game was it you were referring to that gonzaw went ape-shit when you accused him of being mafia? My very first game. I think it was Student Mafia or something. It is in my profile. Still reading | ||
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On July 27 2012 07:26 VisceraEyes wrote: EBWOP: Probulous I know you're phone-posting...1 or 2 words on supersoft's reaction? Surpised I don't know, initial thoughts were he was caught off guard and trying to explain stuff. I mean the PM clearly implicates him so if he is town or scum he would be trying to clarify things. I need to read it carefully. | ||
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On July 27 2012 01:08 risk.nuke wrote: ##nuke zealous I Don't have a nuke though. Call me paranoid if you will but can you do this again with the correct spelling? Just a check that is all. | ||
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It's only night 1 and I'm not allowed to communicate names whatsoever ... My first real order to you is to attack sandroba/wherebugsgo/Bill Murray/Palmar during the night. I know we are flipping him but doesn't anyone find this contradiction strange? It's like, I can't tell you my team but I can tell you who is not on my team | ||
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Why would you think that Syllo? I mean for all intents and purposes by pushing two different sets of names in two different PMs, they could out their team quite clearly. To be frank Ii was surprised they could include names at all but here you think they specifically can include four when they actually name many more than that | ||
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My first real order to you is to attack sandroba/wherebugsgo/Bill Murray/Palmar during the night. Go along with what risk.nuke and Foolishness are saying. That's 6 names right there. | ||
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If these PMs are true then scum would want us to feel like the thread is chaotic. I noticed that a lot of people were using that specific word which was odd to me because I don't find the thread is chaotic at all. Big yes, but Chaos no. Given it was mentioned was a strategy here it may be a way of them staying on message and outing themselves to each other. Hunch but worth looking into. | ||
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On July 27 2012 02:00 austinmcc wrote: Also, if the commuter role is present, that's another reason for the lack of NK last night. (1) some form of protection (2) scum didn't send in a kill (missed it OR thought all targets sent were mafia) (3) kill sent in on a commuter who was gone that night (4) roleblock on the chairman of the board, IF that would stop the NK in this setup Subtle implication that Syllo is mafia. Austin what do you think this actually means? Syllo was shot but here you suggest a way the block would happen with him being mafia. It seems unlikely that scum would shoot their commuter unless they are on opposite sides of the hierachy which would mean mean Syllo is working for the department of marketing. It's possible but unlikely given how he has played so why post this here? Why did you post this without explaining the implications... | ||
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On July 27 2012 08:48 VisceraEyes wrote: They can't have a janitor - that would imply minions knowing who other scum are wouldn't it? Same logic applies to a pardoner surely... | ||
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On July 27 2012 08:42 Probulous wrote: Meapak's bizarre rastaban case now makes sense. His whole case was that rastaban was being wishy-washy yet he kept plugging it without really pushing for his lynch. It was a distraction case. Very similar to Palmar's Day 1 push of Meapak. The fact that Meapak never really expanded on it (his Day 2 stuff was much of the same) and has continually soft pushed it also fits. Upon closer reading of the last couples pages, this is no longer relevant. I hate having to reread stuff to understand how things unfold. Much easier when you are actually around to actually discuss stuff. | ||
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On July 27 2012 09:07 VisceraEyes wrote: He likes me better Prob! What's funny is what you mistook for him knowing your role was him calling you an Executive. LMAO That's how I read it anyway. No it was the bolded thing. I really thought he knew my role title. I feel stupid | ||
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Five stars for five mafia. Life is good | ||
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On July 27 2012 09:23 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay...okay...What in the piss? Wasn't he presently in control of the mafia when he did that? Wasn't he......wasn't he like the new CEO or something? Well it kind of makes sense. I mean he knew Fool was getting shot but BH died before he could claim the kill so by claiming the kill he covers for the other mafia. Hopefully he gets the cred and gets confirmed as town but then Supersoft counter claims. Of course mafia didn't expect Foolishness to die from a town shot as well. They also didn't expect VE to kill BH so quickly. That lynch really fucked them over I think. If BH claimed the shot he would be in the clear as long there wasn't a town counterclaim. Given how much suspicion was on him, it was probably worth the chance that there is no town vig given Kurumi wasn't shot night 1. If town counter claimed they traded the probable lynch target (BH) for a town vig. That ninja lynch by VE meant BH never got to claim which meant that someone else could claim the cred and who better than the current "CEO". The text was bad but the play wasn't. All in all Supersoft played his role like a total bad ass, waiting for mafia to claim the cred and then outing them. | ||
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Why else would slOosh claim? He must have felt that BH did kill Fool and there were no town vigs because of Kurumi so it was a "risk less" play, but they got butt fucked by a bad ass Supersoft and a ninja VE. | ||
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CEO
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## vote Gonzaw From phone | ||
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Don't worry, if you flip town, I will take a closer look but right now flipping you makes the most sense to me. My problem with your play is that you started terribly and then never really got into the game until this last day. It is like you want to contribute only when under pressure and that makes it hard to take your thoughts seriously. Like I said, if you are town, your words will gain some weight with me because it is clear you are putting effort in. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/2/22/8bd67030-7ab6-4204-ad60-1b08dc0818c6.jpg) | ||
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Austin and Rasta are naughty naughty boys. Man, when the host is suggesting you forfeit you know you got problems * * * * * * | ||
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Roles: Probulous - Kingmaker VE - Kingmaker Supersoft - Vig Chez - Bossy Employee Bill Murray - Steal Votes No Claims: HiroPro Katina Syllo Mattchew Marvellosity risk.nuke Q-bert-Z Any info missing? Still reading the weekend action in depth. | ||
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BTW I know it is night but given Gonz' flip, austin was clearly right so I think our next target should be ##Vote Risk.Nuke | ||
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Given we had two Snoopers alive it was not unlikely that their messages would get intercepted but they probably didn't know that. My only issue with QBertz is I don't understand why he dropped the Mole thing into his post. It makes no sense because it doesn't function or sound like a scum aligned role. Maybe he is a scum messenger and wanted to try and out the mole through PM? In any case I am happy to flip him based purely on not wanting to flip Katina and there being a shortage of suspects. Oh and Chez is town, like seriously, he is town. I love this town, can I stay here forever | ||
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Troll-ception So Chez knew scum was messaging him so he sent a trollage PM to mess with them? Can you explain plz... | ||
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I really don't understand why people were getting shitty with you for your posting style. You never used it as an excuse not to present your thoughts, it just forced people to read you carefully. Plus, it is entertaining. I am torn between wanting to win by killing all the mafia in a single streak versus dragging out this game. Gah, too much win | ||
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Besides, marv would get jealous that I found a new partner so quickly. | ||
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We know Gonzaw's message was genuine and he hasn't contributed at all this game. The case against him is the clearest in my mind so we lynch him first. The QBert thing relies on us correctly interpreting that crumb as him trying to out himself as a mole. I am most uncertain about Katina so the others go first. | ||
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On July 30 2012 06:53 risk.nuke wrote: I'm obviously beeing framed. I don't have a power like that and personally I don't buy austins roleclaim that allows you to intercept messeges. It just sounds to powerfull for this setup. It looks a hell of alot more like a desperate trick the scumteam is pulling. Especially since it's coming from Austin. Weather or not it incriminates Gonzaw I'm not sure. It's just so convenient that after he posts his fake-pm he instantly figures out who's writing style it is. Seems much more likely that he planted the gonzaw-signs himself. Unfortuantly I didn't come back in time to say this soon so I can't avert his lynch so I guess we will find out gonzaws alignment shortly but I'm bracing myself for a greenflip. ##vote: austin Just in case people had any doubts. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Case we probably don't need] + On July 16 2012 18:59 risk.nuke wrote: The only difference between this game and a normal game is everyone needs to scumhunt. I included this just because it is so LOL worthy. On July 17 2012 06:47 risk.nuke wrote: Kurumi looks pretty busted. His first response to the accusation I can't buy. Feels like a poor scum-excuse but a nonexistant townexcuse and his posts after that are aligned with what I would expect from a busted scum. Syllo pointed out how bad of an excuse this is to vote for Kurumi. Remember at this point Kurumi was essentially confirmed mafia and yet Risk had to try and justify is vote. I bet he desperately wanted not to be on a scumbuddy. On July 18 2012 06:38 risk.nuke wrote: Okey good thanks, I just finnished reading up on the thread and I'd say I did better then skimming but not really a thorough readthrough either. Right now I'm feeling of a mind to join in on the austin wagon. It seems nice there. Nice wagon vote. Here are a few quotes that fit the "Cause Chaos" thing On July 19 2012 01:36 risk.nuke wrote: Don't blame the system when the fault lies in a dumb unorganized town. On July 22 2012 04:43 risk.nuke wrote: Okey lets focus, and then you decide those are the candidates. Good luck getting people to agree on that lynch. On July 23 2012 21:38 risk.nuke wrote: I just realised I've been onboard with lynching Palmar but I hadn't actually voted him (Nor even said I was onboard killing him) On July 23 2012 22:27 risk.nuke wrote: Fine then, I figured we had some ten hours but maybe that's not enough. Fine lets play it safe. ##Vote: Palmar On July 24 2012 04:21 risk.nuke wrote: I couldn't agrre with this more. The chaos we've had makes it hard just to stay updated. Hilarious really. Then he goes and attacks Syllo for defending Zealos when all Syllo was doing is explaining how Zealos' actions may not incriminate him. On July 27 2012 01:29 risk.nuke wrote: Syllo why are you so suspiciously defending zealos. You don't call him scum (despite him beeing scummy as hell), you never defend him but you do ALOT of diverting attention from him. ... On July 27 2012 02:18 risk.nuke wrote: ##vote syllogism tell me how you survived the night. ... ![[image loading]](http://turklishtefl.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Laughing.jpg) | ||
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Besides you love my voice don't you? | ||
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I want seven stars! | ||
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Attention! ![[image loading]](http://tacstrat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/nuclear-missile-launch-400x250.jpg) Katina has launched a nuclear missile at risk.nuke! It will land at the time of the lynch. | ||
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On July 31 2012 10:45 VisceraEyes wrote: This is the second time in twenty-four hours you've gotten me all hot and bothered with a fake-out post because of your name's proximity to the host's, Prob. :/ I do try. This game need a little spice. COME ON SWING THE NUKE! | ||
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It's clearly a joke. | ||
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12. Posting a false role PM phrased as if you received it from the host. You can still fake roleclaim, but you cannot make it look like you are posting a PM you received from the host. There is nothing in the rules about faking a host post as far as I can tell. If you fall for it, then you clearly aren't reading properly. | ||
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Nuff said really. | ||
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The key to this game was Day 1 and unfortunately for scum Gonzaw was too busy to really play. That vital link in their structure was missing. As town we knew that mafia would be all over the place. That is incredibly powerful and was something I relied on. Either they were going to be wishy washy non committal or they would have to accidentally bus their team. It was a win for town. I agree that town had too many power roles. The game was effectively won after the king lynches. Gonzaw risk and qbertz were never in the top half of my townie lists before the snoopers outed themselves. Overall best game I have played. Thanks so much to the hosts and thanks to my fellow players. You were awesome. | ||
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This game is fundamentally hard for scum. I am surprised no mafia went solo and just ignored all PM communication. You know play as a townie. Town needed to kill every scum so it was worth a shot. Especially with the number of scum around. | ||
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Happy Birthday my King Did you really think I was mafia? | ||
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Risk, given the setup I have no idea why you would not just risk it on your own. Your team know you are looking for scum and unless you are a the town leader you are unlikely to get killed. If you do, well that is the risk you take. As for town lynching you, you have more power than the other townies in that you can night kill (once the rest are dead) so you should be able to manipulate town into misslynching. I know it is a risky strategy, I never said I expected everyone to do it. I am just suprised given 9 mafia that none tried it. PM Cops are irrelevant. Think about it, the people who the PM cops checked were all playing like mafia. The PM cop is the same as any other cop in that if you are playing with clarity they shouldn't check you. | ||
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On August 01 2012 10:10 gonzaw wrote: Again: That "PM Cop" outed three scum when he caught my message. It's not "irrelevant" if he can catch more than 1 scum with a "check", or can know all about scum's strategies (even if he outs only 1 scum). I was responding to risk. My point was that playing a solo game would make PM snoopers irrelevant because you would aim to look as townie as possible. Remember snoopers only get PM that go to or come from the person they check. On August 01 2012 10:14 gonzaw wrote: Also damn. I keep looking at the scum team, and if the game hadn't started yet I'd say the scum team would win Also lol Zealos not only was "caught" yet was actually acting scummy. I can't believe how people didn't lynch him. Even I thought he was scum until like D4, how the hell did you guys figure out he was town? I made my reasoning quite clear. The claim thing was dumb but it made no sense from a scum perspective either. Actually his whole play this game was terrible but it was not malicious and he doesn't have a record of playing fantastically. Compared to yourself who I know is really inciteful when you roll town, so I knew you were scum. I mean I almost got you lynched Day 1 and the only thing stopping me from pushing you later was I thought you were genuinely busy. That and we had better targets. Look at your targets for scumhunting. They were easy to push, you never went after the really big fish and you never raised something completely new. If you are behind (people think you are scum) you have to do something different. Something big. It was really hard to establish your innocence in this setup because everyone should have been legitimately scumhunting. This was true for town and for scum. The problem scum had was they decided not to do that on Day 1 which meant you guys were never truly cleared. The biggest disadvantage mafia had was they did not know who their team was and this gave town a goldmine of information. I kept going back to the early game because the one thing I knew for certain was that mafia was not being forthright with their reads. It was a simple strategy but it paid big dividends because it identified town and scum equally. | ||
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I think these things could be changed for the next game and would make a big difference in the outcome. I think a potential role list for at least the CEO and perhaps having members of the same level knowing only their partners would help. For example minions know the minions in their side of the company. Similarly the Execs know each other. It's is not a complete reveal but it gives mafia the ability to break up the early game into multiple groups. Internal things that affected mafia's ability to win
Mafia knew that Day 1 was imperative and I guess like a typical bureacracy they decided to wait for orders. This gave town the ability to really push their targets early and to set themselves up as townies before mafia could get going. By the end of Day 1 you had Sandroba and Bugs as confirmed town, you had Syllo as very townie. You had Gonzaw, BH and Foolishness as scummy. That is a disastrous start which they never really recovered from. | ||
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On August 01 2012 10:32 layabout wrote: Not knowing your teammates is a tremendous advantage if you want to survive. Minions should not have given a rat's buttock about secretly figuring out who their team mates were. This game gave mafia the tools to play to their town game's. The biggest real issues for minions were the anonymous PM's, BM's stealing power and the difficulty of having to play out a very long game. I agree but no one seemed to do that really well. If you are going to go solo, you have to make yourself seen. Otherwise you are of no use to mafia or town and are unlikely to survive till the end. | ||
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On August 01 2012 10:37 gonzaw wrote: But then the snoopers would still check that minion and see he received a scum message Why would they check that minion? VE was never checked, Syllo was never checked, Sandroba was never checked, I was never checked. Now you can blame that on us having roles but we were not checked before we outed them. I agree that two snoopers was a lot but that doesn't make them overpowered. If you just ignored the mafia PMs (or even better outed them) and played as pro town as all hell, you make yourself "immune" to snoopers. Yes that makes you a mafia target but if mafia had a system to "prove" their allegience in thread the executive should realised your strategy. It was one I would have played if I rolled scum because I know my meta is so obvious if I am not out there actively and carefully scumhunting. Couldn't you say the same thing about sloosh? I mean, his claim didn't "make sense from a scum perspective" either (was just bad), and his play wasn't that incriminating (compared to Zealos at least). Yet Zealos was never considered as lynch at all yet sloosh was always "almost confirmed scum" ever since he claimed. Of course, unless I'm missing something that made people think "Zealos is town" and "sloosh is scum" that didn't have anything to do with their "dumb claims/reactions". I have much higher expectations of slOosh than Zealos. For Christ sake look at my last agme with slOosh. He owned on Day 1 but was ignored and that was why I kept asking for his opinion. When he replied in a lacklustre way I knew something was off. Then his claim seemed so unlike a town slOosh that I knew he was mafia. It didn't make sense and slOosh does not do things that don't make sense. Call it meta if you will. I tried doing that with supersoft on D2 and nobody paid attention to me at all (even if they agreed) By that point I knew I had zero town presence and everything I did was pointless basically. The only thing I aimed to do was: save Palmar on D3 (a 2-shot scum Pardoner could have been very useful in late-game), and try to convince people I was town by the way I pushed my reads (on players I thought were scum/town). As you can see my reads sucked as well so that didn't help :/ That is the problem with being mafia. You have to try and make a case against someone who is town and so the case has to have flaws. You were a victim of your own success. I know you play well as scum and I know you play well as town so I was cautious of you from the start. When you didn't live up to my expectations even after you were almost lynched I was pretty sure you were mafia. Than when you came in defending Palmar for no apparent reason it solidified the read in my head. BTW I was tossing up between lynching you or layabout for my kingmaker hit. Both fo coming out of nowhere having done nothing of substance and then suddenly defending Palmar who had also done minimal work just screamed mafia to me. | ||
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On August 01 2012 10:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Indeed...there were plenty of people not willing to lynch laya for his little display. e: ...although this is probably part of the reason you chose laya in the end, I'm assuming. Exactly. Having a vig shot allows you to make calls town might not make on their own. Gonzaw looked scum for all money so I went with layabout. Turns out it wouldn't have mattered. BTW VE, I really don't like the way you gave me that lynch with conditions. If I had chosen Meapak or Zealos (ROFL both town aligned) you could legitimately have said I was abstaining from the responsibility you gave me. Then when I lynch a different person you thought I was scum because I didn't abstain from the responsibility. If the whole purpose of making me king was to test my alignment you were going to interpret it badly either way. It was why I had doubts about you. It is a lose lose for me if I am town. I had to lynch scum and it had to be someone other than Zealos or Meapak. Even then, it wasn't good enough. | ||
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On August 01 2012 11:08 layabout wrote: That just demonstrates the power of your role when used effectively, before that there had be a no lynch, a mis-lynch and a mis-nuke. Maybe there should have been more mafia KP. Of course the balance of themed games is always unstable but since town played very well and mafia played poorly there is not much to moan about. I agree. I think less town KP would have been better. It maens the game drags on (town favoured) but it removes the ability of town to completely rape scum in a short period. | ||
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On August 01 2012 11:04 layabout wrote: Day1 was dominated by everyone and their mother thinking that kurumi was scum and then deciding not to lynch him. Which was logical was it not? We had no info that the nukes were duds. If RoL had let us know this thatn obviously he would have been lynched. Somewhere along the way sandroba became confirmed town and wbg and him had huge thread presence. Once this happened mafia had very little ability to control the thread and going after either one of them would very likely have gotten you lynch because there was next to no reason for a townie to doubt them. When you consider that day 2's lynch was decided from the offset it should be no surprise that mafia activity was so low and remained low for the rest of the game. I disagree. The Day 2 lynch was a perfect opportunity for the major scum players to take control precisely because everyone was being passive. You have to take a chance to win. | ||
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ROFL I sided with Foolishness and pushed Syllo Day 1 but was never a real lynch prospect. | ||
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On August 01 2012 12:21 gonzaw wrote: I don't get how that Palmar wagon just happened out of thin air. Like...BH died, and everybody was like "Yeah let's kill Palmar" and then other people were like "Okay" and that's it. Day 3 and Palmar had done exactly what? He clearly did not care about this game and so it was obvious he was mafia. With town in the position we were I would expect a town Palmar to actually participate. Have a read of the cases against him. | ||
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On August 02 2012 13:58 wherebugsgo wrote: what in the penis we won Yeah won is a bit of an understatement. | ||
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