Bureaucracy Mafia! - Page 43

On July 18 2012 04:33 Kurumi wrote:

Interesting, why? Then I shouldn't get lynched before I got nuked!

On July 18 2012 04:35 Mattchew wrote:
Katina's arguments with me also reminds me of when we argued in MTG theme (not actual MTG) Mafia, (Foolishness I would love for you to look at that game for a game where she posts more than twice a day and seemingly cares)

On July 18 2012 04:35 Mattchew wrote:
Katina's arguments with me also reminds me of when we argued in MTG theme (not actual MTG) Mafia, (Foolishness I would love for you to look at that game for a game where she posts more than twice a day and seemingly cares)

On July 18 2012 04:28 supersoft wrote:
we are not lynching veterans today. Wait at least for night 1 and see who's left by then.

On July 17 2012 07:10 Foolishness wrote:
Well I was going to say something about Kurumi, but was focusing on syllogism because I'm sure he's mafia more so than Kurumi. At least at the time I did.

##Unvote: syllogism
##Vote: Kurumi

Pretty sure the point is that you had no reason to do so if you are town. But hey I haven't really read the past 5 pages cause it's so spammy.

On July 18 2012 04:40 HiroPro wrote:


Her play isn't really like that here. All she did in MTG was tunnel you and Nova_Terra with pointless reasoning.

On July 17 2012 23:26 Palmar wrote:


Well prove you're not. I admit, there is not much to do other than lynch kurumi at the moment, and I also know that if I'm right you've been pushed into a very uncomfortable position due to sandroba's status atm. Any judgements you make will be reviewed by sandroba who is almost guaranteed to be town.

But between lynching kurumi, and preferably killing MZ too, you have some time if you're town.

What do you think of the rest of my list. I mean, I just mentioned that surviving and focusing on oneself would be a mafia characteristic this game, and you literally ignored what... 7-8? accusations I had to talk about yourself.

On May 02 2011 02:28 Ace wrote:
I'm an undercover Agent with 1 shot and get parts intercepted messages from the CL. So I have no more shots anyway and I'm pretty sure we're close to winning this especially seeing how panicked you are. If you are a townie you should be glad I chose correctly because if I missed I'd be automatically killed also. Something tells me you aren't though.

On July 18 2012 04:37 marvellosity wrote:


I'm not seeing it right now Matt. I don't see Katina's play in this game as very much equivalent to that game at all. I think you're getting a bit of confirmation bias from the first post that you criticised.

On July 18 2012 04:45 Mattchew wrote:

you think her responses to my case on her are good and townie?

On July 18 2012 04:42 Mattchew wrote:

Do you think she hasnt tunneled me and Palmar this game? and Do you think her reasoning is good?

On July 18 2012 04:48 syllogism wrote:
It's exactly the kind of role I would expect to be in this setup. You know basically nothing about the setup other than the fact the fact town:mafia ratio is extremely abnormal and the immediate conclusion you draw is that this role is too powerful to be town? Why is your focus on the fact that mafia has limited communication instead of there being one mafia for every 2 townies? What exactly would mafia sandroba's motivation here be? Do you think he is CEO or how exactly do you think he communicated with kurumi?

On July 18 2012 04:14 rastaban wrote:


So of all the cases made and discussed so far, you think lynching me for not being active is the best choice, an interesting opinion... I also I can't help but notice that you are also in the lynch BlazingHand camp now glad to see you are at least working to lynch scum today.

On July 18 2012 04:44 austinmcc wrote:
I have no name cache here, that's fine. But read this with an open mind. Seriously read point (1). Consider whether it makes sense.

(1) Sandroba's role is way, way, way too powerful
Not a single person here knows how sandroba's power works. Mafia, town, 5th party, whatever. Nobody is curious?

Nobody is thinking, jeez, in a game where mafia cannot communicate except through 2 messages per day cycle, 2 messages per night cycle, and there are NINE of them. A game where they might lynch each other, NK each other, use powers on each other. Nobody is going, holy balls, the ability to SEND FAKE MESSAGES is an incredibly, incredibly powerful role?

Think about it. The way sandroba used it, he's a cop. You ask someone to do something, if they do, they must have assumed it was from a mafia higher-up. So if they obey, they're mafia, you got this game's equivalent of a red check. Moreover, you're a cop that cannot be affected by any kind of framing power. Normal cops can be balanced out by gfs, millers, frames. A red check from a normal cop may or may not indicate scum. Saying "Hey use these 3 phrases in your next post to identify yourself" CANNOT be balanced by any mechanic at all. If they obey a message they received, when they had no idea anyone other than mafia could send messages, they must be mafia. Name a single other explanation, because when kurumi tried to give one, it sounded dumb and everyone agreed it sounded dumb.

Moreover, he's not just a cop. He can check people with that power, AND direct their actions. Not only does he know they're red when they follow orders, he can actively direct mafia action because messages are anonymous. He gets a red check AND gets to direct the actions of a mafia member, tell them who to go after, who to defend, etc.

Oh man, austinmcc, that DOES sound pretty powerful now that I think about it. He's a supercop that can't get false checks in a game where mafia have limited communication?

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(2) Sandroba has played scum IN a sleeper cell game in which a powerful role fakeclaim helped win the game
Well, surely he wouldn't claim such a powerful role, right? He'd wait to use it a few more times. I mean, checks AND mafia action disruption, you'd want to keep that secret. Unless, of course, you'd played in another game where a ridiculous check helped win you the game. You know, like, say, Sleeper Cell Mafia. The game where sandroba rolled mafia with Ace as cell leader and Ace claimed the following role:
Ace skated by after claiming this, with the only person who was suspicious of his claim being another cell member. In the postgame, there was a decent bit of discussion about how town should have questioned Ace's claim given that he could (1) intercept messages and (2) shoot. Sandroba's claimed power is basically on about that level, because he's a combination cop and...disruptor? There's no name for that other role as far as I know. It's basically a townie who gets to sit in mafia QT but isn't mafia.

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(3) Sandroba showed balls as a sleeper agent in that same game
Ace claimed to have shot GGQ N3. There was only one kill. Sandroba, as scum, claimed vet on D4 in order to account for the missing KP. So we KNOW he's got the balls to fakeclaim as scum in this style of game. We know that having those balls won him a game, as scum, in this style of game.

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Maybe I'm being paranoid. But maybe that role is a little overpowered to be in a balanced game. Maybe sandroba can play ballsy as scum in this sort of game. Maybe, even if the role isn't overpowered, Sandroba should be smart enough not to out himself because he caught 1/9 of the mafia team with a role that friggin' powerful. Wouldn't you keep that to yourself and catch more? Wouldn't you catch more and actively disrupt mafia communication/actions?

THAT is why I wanted Sandroba to claim. That is why I find him scummy. Get offa mah nuts, because if you actually think about his role, you should be questioning it too. Either scum have RIDICULOUSLY powerful roles to balance things out, or town simply cannot have a guy who ends up being an uncounterable cop PLUS can actively plant fake mafia communications.

On July 18 2012 04:44 austinmcc wrote:
I have no name cache here, that's fine. But read this with an open mind. Seriously read point (1). Consider whether it makes sense.

(1) Sandroba's role is way, way, way too powerful
Not a single person here knows how sandroba's power works. Mafia, town, 5th party, whatever. Nobody is curious?

Nobody is thinking, jeez, in a game where mafia cannot communicate except through 2 messages per day cycle, 2 messages per night cycle, and there are NINE of them. A game where they might lynch each other, NK each other, use powers on each other. Nobody is going, holy balls, the ability to SEND FAKE MESSAGES is an incredibly, incredibly powerful role?

Think about it. The way sandroba used it, he's a cop. You ask someone to do something, if they do, they must have assumed it was from a mafia higher-up. So if they obey, they're mafia, you got this game's equivalent of a red check. Moreover, you're a cop that cannot be affected by any kind of framing power. Normal cops can be balanced out by gfs, millers, frames. A red check from a normal cop may or may not indicate scum. Saying "Hey use these 3 phrases in your next post to identify yourself" CANNOT be balanced by any mechanic at all. If they obey a message they received, when they had no idea anyone other than mafia could send messages, they must be mafia. Name a single other explanation, because when kurumi tried to give one, it sounded dumb and everyone agreed it sounded dumb.

Moreover, he's not just a cop. He can check people with that power, AND direct their actions. Not only does he know they're red when they follow orders, he can actively direct mafia action because messages are anonymous. He gets a red check AND gets to direct the actions of a mafia member, tell them who to go after, who to defend, etc.

Oh man, austinmcc, that DOES sound pretty powerful now that I think about it. He's a supercop that can't get false checks in a game where mafia have limited communication?

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(2) Sandroba has played scum IN a sleeper cell game in which a powerful role fakeclaim helped win the game
Well, surely he wouldn't claim such a powerful role, right? He'd wait to use it a few more times. I mean, checks AND mafia action disruption, you'd want to keep that secret. Unless, of course, you'd played in another game where a ridiculous check helped win you the game. You know, like, say, Sleeper Cell Mafia. The game where sandroba rolled mafia with Ace as cell leader and Ace claimed the following role:
Ace skated by after claiming this, with the only person who was suspicious of his claim being another cell member. In the postgame, there was a decent bit of discussion about how town should have questioned Ace's claim given that he could (1) intercept messages and (2) shoot. Sandroba's claimed power is basically on about that level, because he's a combination cop and...disruptor? There's no name for that other role as far as I know. It's basically a townie who gets to sit in mafia QT but isn't mafia.

---

(3) Sandroba showed balls as a sleeper agent in that same game
Ace claimed to have shot GGQ N3. There was only one kill. Sandroba, as scum, claimed vet on D4 in order to account for the missing KP. So we KNOW he's got the balls to fakeclaim as scum in this style of game. We know that having those balls won him a game, as scum, in this style of game.

---

---

Maybe I'm being paranoid. But maybe that role is a little overpowered to be in a balanced game. Maybe sandroba can play ballsy as scum in this sort of game. Maybe, even if the role isn't overpowered, Sandroba should be smart enough not to out himself because he caught 1/9 of the mafia team with a role that friggin' powerful. Wouldn't you keep that to yourself and catch more? Wouldn't you catch more and actively disrupt mafia communication/actions?

THAT is why I wanted Sandroba to claim. That is why I find him scummy. Get offa mah nuts, because if you actually think about his role, you should be questioning it too. Either scum have RIDICULOUSLY powerful roles to balance things out, or town simply cannot have a guy who ends up being an uncounterable cop PLUS can actively plant fake mafia communications.

On July 18 2012 04:52 austinmcc wrote:

If he actually communicated with kurumi, then he's either a mafia higher-up or some sort of messaging power DOES exist. But he won't tell us exactly what, despite having an incredibly powerful role and thinking he's going to die. Why, as town, if you've got such a powerful role (and are apparently known for good scumhunting) and think you will die, would you not share that information with town?

If kurumi flips red tonight, we don't actually know if he communicated or not.

Even if you think that role is in the game and isn't game-breaking, do you think that sandroba would out himself, as that role, on D1, with a single red check? Does that make sense?