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Bureaucracy Mafia! - Page 195

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gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
July 27 2012 18:30 GMT
#3881
o_O what the...?


Okay, if I get this correctly, rastaban claims that last day cycle (Day 4), there were 2 messages sent and received by Chezinu, right?
So Chezinu received the 1st message first (from someone), then sent the 2nd one to Katina?
The 2nd message could have been sent by Chezinu, since he has that power.....but the 1st one had to be sent from mafia since there isn't any other similar messaging role out, which can only happen if Chezinu is minion since he received the message...

....wow

The "he figured out Katina was her executive" bit makes sense, although it's possible Chezinu thought Katina was her executive and was wrong. However I agree it's likely Katina is the executive herself, so this makes more sense.

On July 28 2012 02:46 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 05:36 gonzaw wrote:
Fuck it's Can't Believe all over again

Had to pull this up, ended up being too true. A lynch on you turns into a scum lynch and the game mostly wrapping up, with only one unknown scum remaining, and you, I guess, being town.

Show nested quote +
On July 27 2012 10:31 gonzaw wrote:
I actually think it's something like this:

Executive: Katina
Minions: QBertz Zealos
Which of your two minions would you replace with Chezinu?


Well shit I don't know :/

I guess it's possible Zealos is town (somehow) and derped that sandro message (somehow).
But if QBertz is scum, then he didn't send or receive any message when rastaban checked him, which he would have if he was scum.
I forgot about BM as well, who claimed Qbertz has no abilities, making him either town or executive. But if QBertz was executive surely he would have sent a message to one of his minions when rastaban checked him.
That Mole thing is incriminating though, but maybe it has something to do with his role (and he knew about the mole somehow?) or it was a coincidence?
Isn't QBertz getting replaced or something? Fuck
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
July 27 2012 18:37 GMT
#3882
Rastaban said he only checked qbert one cycle. It's not unlikely for a minion to not get messages in one cycle, considering there are three of them.

And BM can't check night abilities.
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
July 27 2012 18:37 GMT
#3883
On July 28 2012 03:30 gonzaw wrote:
o_O what the...?


Okay, if I get this correctly, rastaban claims that last day cycle (Day 4), there were 2 messages sent and received by Chezinu, right?
So Chezinu received the 1st message first (from someone), then sent the 2nd one to Katina?
The 2nd message could have been sent by Chezinu, since he has that power.....but the 1st one had to be sent from mafia since there isn't any other similar messaging role out, which can only happen if Chezinu is minion since he received the message...

....wow

The "he figured out Katina was her executive" bit makes sense, although it's possible Chezinu thought Katina was her executive and was wrong. However I agree it's likely Katina is the executive herself, so this makes more sense.

Show nested quote +
On July 28 2012 02:46 austinmcc wrote:
On July 26 2012 05:36 gonzaw wrote:
Fuck it's Can't Believe all over again

Had to pull this up, ended up being too true. A lynch on you turns into a scum lynch and the game mostly wrapping up, with only one unknown scum remaining, and you, I guess, being town.

On July 27 2012 10:31 gonzaw wrote:
I actually think it's something like this:

Executive: Katina
Minions: QBertz Zealos
Which of your two minions would you replace with Chezinu?


Well shit I don't know :/

I guess it's possible Zealos is town (somehow) and derped that sandro message (somehow).
But if QBertz is scum, then he didn't send or receive any message when rastaban checked him, which he would have if he was scum.
I forgot about BM as well, who claimed Qbertz has no abilities, making him either town or executive. But if QBertz was executive surely he would have sent a message to one of his minions when rastaban checked him.
That Mole thing is incriminating though, but maybe it has something to do with his role (and he knew about the mole somehow?) or it was a coincidence?
Isn't QBertz getting replaced or something? Fuck

Qbert likely has a night power, so thats why he didn't get anything, I also checked him and he didn't get any messages but since he was leaving it is likely they weren't messaging him on that particular day.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
July 27 2012 18:41 GMT
#3884
On July 28 2012 03:37 HiroPro wrote:
Rastaban said he only checked qbert one cycle. It's not unlikely for a minion to not get messages in one cycle, considering there are three of them.

And BM can't check night abilities.


Oh I didn't know that (thought it was a whole ability, not just day ones).

If that's the case, then I guess it's more likely he's scum because he knew of the mole, but I have a hard time thinking Zealos is town.
Meh, we can deal with it later, it's giving me a headache right now.
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
July 27 2012 18:43 GMT
#3885
Also I am not completely sold Q-bert-Z is scum but their are some pretty good arguments for it, but I will need to look deeper. I will wait till Katina or Chez dies though, to confirm we are going in the right direction here.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6788 Posts
July 27 2012 18:45 GMT
#3886
My apologies rastaban, this is like VE all over again

Anyway I say we go Katina, Chez, QbertZ.

I was wrong about katina and chez as well, damn :/
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
July 27 2012 18:45 GMT
#3887
On July 28 2012 03:41 gonzaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2012 03:37 HiroPro wrote:
Rastaban said he only checked qbert one cycle. It's not unlikely for a minion to not get messages in one cycle, considering there are three of them.

And BM can't check night abilities.


Oh I didn't know that (thought it was a whole ability, not just day ones).

If that's the case, then I guess it's more likely he's scum because he knew of the mole, but I have a hard time thinking Zealos is town.
Meh, we can deal with it later, it's giving me a headache right now.

yeah, I am kind of sad that both Zealos and Kurumi may end up being town after Sandroba's great PM trick. Really was town that gullible to hide random PMs?.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 27 2012 18:51 GMT
#3888
Game sense makes not.
Fe fi fo fum.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 27 2012 19:33 GMT
#3889
If there's still somehow town kp out there, shoot q-bert-z. I doubt it though
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 27 2012 19:52 GMT
#3890
Hey guys, I'll knock it off with the poor play and the games. I too, am a nosy employee. Rastaban explains the role the way mine is, I can choose one person every full cycle to snoop, and I see PMs that they sent/received. I chose different targets than Rastaban did, and have been lightly poking Rastaban and Gonzaw to make sure that I had things nailed down, because, if not, I knew the identity of the president of marketing and could just snoop him tomorrow to get more messages.

In the interest of keeping things simple and on the slim chance I could get killed tonight, I will reveal everything, and I can sort of explain everything, including the two chezinu messages, in a way that makes some sense. Gonzaw, risk.nuke, and most likely, Q-bert-Z are the remaining scumteam.

(1) austinmcc, did you breadcrumb? can you prove it? blah blah? + Show Spoiler +
I did not crumb, because I'm dumb. But my play should back up my claim.
  • In LV, I went conspiracy theorist and I was noob town, and survived until endgame. When I saw I had a power role, I decided I wanted to set myself up to live until endgame, because that meant more chances to get messages and hold onto them, feeling out the scum team. Marv especially can back this up, he left me alive in LV because I was not clearly scummy, but nobody cared what I had to say given the conspiracy theories. He knows I'm not an idiot though, so hopefully this makes sense - I posted conspiracy theory stuff early hoping for the same effect, to get ignored and survive til endgame. For that I'm sorry, because that decision kind of hurts town and it puts me in a mindset where I'm playing to survive and not win. I didn't contribute nearly as much as I should have, sorry guys.
  • I haven't been scumhunting as much as normal, because I got complacent with my role. My role scumhunts for me, so I just wasn't as engaged this game as I have been when I was vanilla.
  • My suspicions of Chezinu, the thing I couldn't explain earlier, should become apparent when I explain my checks.
  • My minor defense of Foolishness, which Marv and VE mentioned, can be explained by my checks
  • The message I snooped actually explain the game

(2) Who were your targets? + Show Spoiler +
  • D1 I snooped Foolishness, trololol. Turns out snooping is a "malevolent night action" and so he was immune, otherwise this game would have gotten silly. I defended Foolishness later on because I'd seen no messages, and assumed that either (1) he would have been in a position of power or (2) his boss would have sent him a message D1 or N1
  • D2 I snooped supersoft. Seemed town but was making some assumptions I didn't love, wanted to make sure he wasn't scum, and he didn't seem like a NK candidate for N1, so I'd get information. No messages.
  • D3 I snooped Marv. Was concerned about Marv being scum, wanted to be assured that he wasn't.
  • D4 I snooped risk.nuke. He was flying so far under the radar, with a tiny tiny filter but not getting lumped into anyone's scum lists. I figured he might be scum, and also figured that, if he wasn't, he was going to survive a while and would be a good target to determine the alignment of. See below

My targets should (1) explain my defense of Foolishness, saw no messages to/from him; and (2) explain my wariness of Chezinu. Chezinu had those posts where he wanted someone to get into the system and find a message from the CEO and then get it to Chez so Chez could screw with mafia. When I saw the part of Foolishness's PM that read -
Any malovent night action on you fails (besides vigilante shot) and you are notified that someone attempted that action but not who.
I thought that Foolishness had informed his minions that someone used "snoop" on him, but didn't know who, and that Chez was trying to draw out the person with that power. I couldn't explain that without giving away my role, thus the suspicions without explanations

(3) What message did risk.nuke send/receive? During D4, risk.nuke either sent or received this + Show Spoiler +
lololololol

hahaha seriously this game cracks me up, I think you should know what makes it funny by now knowing all the info I gave you

lol the hosts must be laughing their asses out. I know were are very likely to lose so I don't really have much hopes, so I'm laughing too.


So, we are on the verge of losing, so I think we may need some drastic actions. And this is all what I can think of:
I think you should use your Broadcaster ability today

Why? Because once sloosh flips scum, I don't really want people to believe his PMs were real, which heavily incriminates some of us when it actually doesn't (since he's not the real mole, you should know that by now....or he is and is very stupid and everything here is a giant coincidence, whatever).

I'm saying you should use your ability since I doubt there is something we can do in the thread to change the tide of things. Mostly because:
-Most people think I'm scum and nobody listens to anything I say, so I can't do shit
-Nobody listens to anything you say either, and you trying to do something "unexpected" will turn all eyes on to you and maybe even out you and get you lynched sooner or something.


So, I want you to use your ability to prove to people that there is a scum minion with another ability other than "Commuter" or whatever sloosh said, or at least that there is a hidden ability nobody has seen before.
It may likely not work, and we may likely still all die horribly in consecutive lynches or something, but it's worth a shot.
If it also confuses people it'd be great as well.
Hmm, a message that's proven to come from scum but confuses people, that should be hard to make.
Anyways, I'll try to come up with something, but if you don't find it acceptable (remember I suck at this kind of stuff), come up with your own message such that it follows these rules:
  1. It shows the message was sent by scum, meaning scum have a remaining power left
  2. It confuses people and creates more chaos
  3. It shows sloosh's PMs are not reliable, but doesn't make it obvious that it's the purpose of the message sent


The 2nd one should be a priority. If it can confuse people, make them doubt things, make them waste time discussing it, etc it would be better than just proving it came from scum.
Hell, maybe you can prove it came from someone else with its content but still creating confusion, that would be better

So....hmm, let me think.

Maybe something like this:

Show nested quote +

As the Chairman of the Board's life was fleeting away, he muttered his last words:
"Et ita est ....
.. nunc vobis sunt in crimen
Praeses vulgaret
In emendator communicationis
... ire quaerere eum"


Now the conquerors should rise, as it was destined they would.
The power of the bureaucracy was meant for them, not for the common proletariat.
Rise from the ashes, rise from the fields.
Deliver to this world the justice it deserves


Yeah I dunno I suck at this kind of thing
I also don't know if making it obvious the message is from scum would have many benefits, opposed to the benefits it could give us if people think the message is from the hosts as a clue or something, or maybe as a last will from sloosh or something to confuse them even more.
Like I said I'm not good at this, so I'll leave you to think of something that may change the tide of the game
(as you can see that message doesn't change the tide of the game >_>
You could include it in a bigger message though, I dunno)

I also added a bit of latin that if you put on google translate incriminates Chezinu.
Don't do that yourself (post the translated message), let other paranoid people (like VE) do it and accuse Chezinu later or stuff like that.
If you can come up with better ways then great, but don't make it too obvious or something.


Info you can use on the message:
As you know, if both sloosh/MZ claimed mole, and MZ's claim is true, then sloosh has to be mafia.
MZ is not my minion, and I hope this doesn't get censored....but if it does: come on guys! Could you let this little tiny detail pass your censors? We are in a tough spot here :3
So, MZ is not my minion, I'm not sloosh (yeah this is obvious whatever CENSORED or not I don't care). MZ is a mole, therefore he has to be the Chairman of the Board's minion, therefore sloosh is Chairman of the Board.
I guess MZ could be real BAD cop or something and sloosh is stupid mole, meh maybe you could leave out the "Chairman of the Board" thing in the message in case we fuck up and sloosh is the real mole >_>
(that would be embarrasing <_< )

You can use that to your advantage in the message as well to spread doubt.


I won't tell you the name of the remaining minion but it should be pretty apparent using the info I told you before and by the request I'm doing right now.

Also, I knew none of you were the real mole
No lovely minion of mine would back-stab us, I know that :3


inb4 one of you really are and I'm getting this whole thing backwards....just in case <_<

(4) Did he send or receive? + Show Spoiler +
Message makes clear that most people think the sender is scum and so he can't do shit. Therefore, risk.nuke is the receiver. Also, towards the end of the message, there are 8,000 "<_<"s and ">_>"s. That's what actually gave it all away, lol. Search the TL mafia forums for that, and you'll quickly see who uses those a lot. Our buddy, who everyone thought was scum, Gonzaw.

Therefore, Gonzaw is the President of Marketing. You can back that up with his reads. He was pushing Zealos like the other scum we've flipped. He was pushing Katina, now Katina implicated. risk.nuke is one of his minions, and has the Broadcaster power. The message also shows that they wanted to use that power to (1) cause chaos and (2) cast doubt on Chezinu.

(5) What is the Broadcaster? + Show Spoiler +
I'm assuming risk.nuke got to plant a fake PM somewhere. Look at the message. It's clear they want to throw people off of SlOosh's PMs, which were apparently real. They want to cast doubt on chezinu. Somehow, the broadcaster can send out a message, and I guess the power is to fake a message between A and B? Still not entirely sure on that, but we can flip risk.nuke to find out

(6) Who is the last scum? + Show Spoiler +
This is why I didn't reveal immediately, figured I was guaranteed to survive another day, and could snoop Gonzaw and put his messages together. But we've got such a nice streak going and I shouldn't overthink this, so I'm claiming.

I think the last scum is Q-bert-Z. risk.nuke's message confirms that SlOosh's PMs were real, and that the real scum team was implicated by the messages. Q-bert-Z both called out lurkers, mentioned chaos, AND had that mole message. He is the most likely candidate.


Read this over. I would like to flip risk.nuke tomorrow. When he flips broadcaster, we can see his power. If it explains the other message Rastaban saw, then Rastaban is most likely town. If it doesn't, Rasta could be the last scum.
Fe fi fo fum.
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
July 27 2012 19:58 GMT
#3891
If austin is telling the truth, risk and gonzaw are scum. That message reads exactly like gonzaw's posting style lol.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 27 2012 20:00 GMT
#3892
This all seems incredibly convenient. Chezinu needs to come here and explain.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 27 2012 20:00 GMT
#3893
Should be able to flip me, risk, or gonzaw and prove my claim. I know I didn't crumb, but figured that the claim would explain my behavior.
Fe fi fo fum.
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
July 27 2012 20:10 GMT
#3894
Katina Confirmed she got Chez PM, why would they plant the "I am lonely, figure it out" thing, and it makes no sense compared to what is said? do you think they planted both? if that is the case where did the real Chez message go?

Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 27 2012 20:14 GMT
#3895
gonzaw and QbertZ are confirmed scum. We lynch them np.
If austin is telling the truth, risk is scum, too
and to be honest, i do believe him at this point of time.
If he is scum, this claim makes no sense. Trading basically 1v1 at this point of time doesn't make any sense.

+ i recently reread some passages of the game and some players and risk.nuke is still scummy in my eyes.
QBert and Gonzaw, too. Especially QBertZ is confirmed scum on my list.

Other possible scumteammembers are Katina and austin himself. Austin would be #5 then. But that list basically was made before his claim... so..
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 27 2012 20:15 GMT
#3896
I have no idea rasta. But I know that I snooped risk, got that message, and "Broadcaster" sounds like it could be PM-related.

That's one reason I want to flip him first, to see what his ability is.
Fe fi fo fum.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 27 2012 20:15 GMT
#3897
That "pm" makes it sound like broadcaster is an ability that just makes host post the message they want in the thread, not an ability that fakes PMs.
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 27 2012 20:17 GMT
#3898
okay well austin i reread your claim.Got to say: Well played there. Honestly. Your explanations all make sense.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 27 2012 20:18 GMT
#3899
On July 28 2012 05:15 syllogism wrote:
That "pm" makes it sound like broadcaster is an ability that just makes host post the message they want in the thread, not an ability that fakes PMs.
There's that too, and I think I remember an old game where someone was a Broadcaster and could post a message with the day post?

If Broadcaster doesn't explain the PMs, then Rastaban is lying and is the third scum, not Q-bert-Z.
Fe fi fo fum.
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7468 Posts
July 27 2012 20:19 GMT
#3900
Austin is right, the risky nuke needs to die. AND I will like to say once again, I CATCH MAFIA BY MAKING THEM TRY TO LYNCH ME! GO GO Lynch RISKY NUKE!!!

PS: rasta the order of the PMs was wrong.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
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