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Bureaucracy Mafia! - Page 124

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supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 21 2012 15:54 GMT
#2461
palmar, respond on the issue i raised about your activitylvl.
We are going to reach a point of time in the game where i need some informations.
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
July 21 2012 16:06 GMT
#2462
On July 21 2012 09:35 layabout wrote:
For all intents and purposes sandroba is town.

This game requires half of the thread to agree on a lynch. Kurumi is near confirmed scum.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 21 2012 04:31 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2012 04:26 syllogism wrote:
I'd rather lynch confirmed mafia who aren't necessarily minions, such as Palmar or Foolishness. Even today there is a small chance kurumi is a trolling,lying, against win-con playing townie while there is no chance whatsoever that foolishness or palmar are town.

If you wanted to make me angry, consider yourself successful. Fuck you.

he was angry that syllogism proposed that he could do this as town


And yet there are 5 votes not on Kurumi! We are going to need focus more and we are going to need to stop joking around with votes and thread actions.

Palmar and Foolishness are calling syllogism mafia. Syllogism in turn is calling both Palmar and Foolishness mafia. Many of you insist on speculating that the host will have made the CEO one of these players (or sandroba or Meapak). It is always dangerous to make decisions based upon out-guessing the host. But if we are aiming to kill the CEO we should plac e our attention on those 3 players.

If we are looking for the person most likely to flip scum tomorrow we need look no further tahn our good friend zealos. I defended him initially but his actions since then show that he is either a mafia or a townie that isn't playing.

READ:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 06:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [snip] +
Okay, several things:

I can confirm that there is at least one messaging power that can be used on townies. I received this after the daypost:

Congratulations! You tripped down some stairs and hit your head. When you woke up, you realized that you were actually a member of the House Chezinu!

That's right! You are now part of the third party, House Chezinu! The first order of business is to get out there and make it known to the world! You'll need some more members to get this really rolling, so spread the word and get recruiting! Once a cycle, you may recruit someone. Simply type "##Recruit: <name> in the thread, and you will be able to recruit a new member! You may use this ability once per day! (Once per cycle, at night) However, you may only have a total of three members besides yourself.

You're part of House Chezinu, so you're above win conditions. (You're already part of House Chezinu, what more do you need to win?) But maybe you can unite the workers in a glorious revolution!

P.S., There's no House Chezinu like a house with Chezinu. Just sayin.


And I confirmed with the host that this is a player-sent message.

Secondly we have two near-confirmed scum in Kurumi and Zealos. If you're a vig or you have any sort of night KP it might be a good idea to kill them given that tomorrow will likely be a wash if they're alive.

Before sandroba revealed that he had messaged zealos WBG considered zealos to be as likely scum as Kurumi. He did not explain his reasons explicitly but he expressed this opinion and we would be wise not to forget it.

It's useful to have a meta assessment so:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 10:19 HiroPro wrote:
Why would a townie essentially make up a reason. Bear in mind that Zealos has show that he has no desire to come up with good reasons when scum (in MTG when I was mafia teammates with him, he argued that he had zero scum reads d1 and so he just voted for his least townie person. he then proceeded to lurk until halfway through night 1 and then appeared with a case on zelblade who was basically just a lurker based entirely on evidence that would have been available to him when he made his d1 vote.)


What was the most sgnificant event during day1?
+ Show Spoiler [Answer] +
The great sandroaba-Kurumi debacle of course! This one event outed Kurumi as scum. Now town should take a scum lynch day1 100% of the time. From that point onwards the only thing the thread needed to do was vote kurumi and then ask whether it was a a bus or not. It should have removed all other candidates for the lynch and discussion the thread should have moved onto the next day's lynch. RoL's nuke was the only good reason to move on from this issue and it was the reason that kurumi was not lynched.

Everyone should have paid their attention to that and thought about the various possibilities since for a time that event would have decided that days lynch and is deciding today lynch. It was your responsibility as town.

But are we to believe that until this morning zealos was unaware of the whole thing?

Zealos placed his first vote against austinmcc

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 07:40 Zealos wrote:
On July 18 2012 06:38 risk.nuke wrote:
On July 18 2012 06:21 marvellosity wrote:
for tonight, 6h 40 mins

Okey good thanks, I just finnished reading up on the thread and I'd say I did better then skimming but not really a thorough readthrough either. Right now I'm feeling of a mind to join in on the austin wagon. It seems nice there.

Unfortunatly I'm going to have to go with this. Having only recently replaced in and having been out all day today, I'm just gonna vote for the person that seems the most scummy recently.

I don't like the idea of a BH lynch right now. I don't think there is enough against him, and if he does flip town we've lost a good vet.

##Vote: austinmcc

He says nothing about austinmcc specifically and yet he feels that the only thing needed to justify his vote was thread momentum. At that time a few players were calling austinmcc scummy but there was nothing substantial said at all and he had very few votes. Zealos' vote was lazy and shows that he was trying to fit in rather than trying to get a successful lynch. It sounds a lot like the Zealos that HiroPro descibed.

Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 05:16 Zealos wrote:
On July 19 2012 05:00 HiroPro wrote:
Zealos, who would you like to kill other than austin? Don't say Kurumi.

And can you explain your vote for austin? What did you find scummy?

Unfortunately my vote for austin was a rush vote where I voted for who seemed to have a decent case against them. I simply didn't have time to look over the whole thread, which is regrettable. As for today, I think a good kill would be BH.

I gather it's pretty much a wagon at this point, but just to add to things:

On July 17 2012 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 17 2012 07:42 Kurumi wrote:
On July 17 2012 07:41 Blazinghand wrote:
On July 17 2012 07:40 Kurumi wrote:
On July 17 2012 07:38 Blazinghand wrote:
You know kurumi we got like tons of time maybe if you're really a town player you can help convince these people to lynch syllo after you die

Meapak_Zipph is scum, I don't care about syllo. And why I would work for you, who the hell are you?

Are you sure? Cause Syllo looks pretty scummy to me. You should read the cases on him and make a case against him, a glorious shining case that will be reinforced by your town flip.

You are making this so easy.
I am town. You "know" I am town. Why vote on me?

._. My point is that "if you are really a town player" you should be spending your resources to help me lynch syllo. You're not doing much to convince me right now.


That is super odd to me. Clearly his logic makes no sense, and he's trying to buddy up to who he thinks will be an influential town player.

The post I made early about him also pointed his odd vote switch after the deadline, which doesn't seem town at all to me. Not to mention the massive cuffle with all the nuking and blocking (which I still don't understand at all, are nukes standard in some games?)

So he's my pick so far.

So Zealos still was not reading the thread since austinmcc did not have a decent case against him and his comment about Kurumi demonstrates a complete lack of thread knowledge.

He also picks out Blazinghand not for being scummy but for being "odd". Which is strange since there should be enuogh players for him to find something that is scummy and not simply "odd".

Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 05:26 Zealos wrote:
I'll just go ahead and vote for BH at the start of day2 then leave you guys to it. bb,

I will simply re-post:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 10:19 layabout wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [snip] +
On July 19 2012 10:08 HiroPro wrote:
Also, you still did not explain why a town Zealos would ever try to argue that BH was trying to buddy "influential townie" Kurumi.

I have a very low opinion of town Zealos and that i something i think he could do if e hadn't been reading the thread. What you said he did was not accurate and this play from Zealos reminds me very much of how he acted at the end of Bang Bang mafia 2.


Zealos said that he would vote for Blazinghand and not come back for the rest of the day. If he is town and he cares then he will come back and try to be productive there is nothing to stop him doing this as mafia but if he doesn't do it he is probably mafia and we should lynch him.


And what has he done?
Well he spent just long enough in the thread to have sandroba's message explained to him. He contributed nothing of his own and has not been productive. He is mafia.

##tomorrow we should vote zealos


Layabout, does Kurumi flipping blue change your post at all? And while I agree town needs to unite, it was pretty obvious Kurumi was town if anyone cared to look at his posts beyond following a random pm received. This is the third game in a row where I have seen town butcher an obvious innocent for a single slip up (though we were able to save marv last minute) gonzaw marv and Kurumi all acted the same when caught. Guess who isn't acting that way. Zealos.
I think BH is a great lynch as well, he has veto power that is certainly a minion on the board of directors.

So Zealos then BH 2 for 2. Come on town let's do this!
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
July 21 2012 16:42 GMT
#2463
On July 22 2012 00:47 Palmar wrote:
if you can shoot tonight kill foolishness, syllo, katina, BM, zealos etc

I'll be around later

rastaban too.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22632 Posts
July 21 2012 17:05 GMT
#2464
On July 22 2012 00:54 supersoft wrote:
palmar, respond on the issue i raised about your activitylvl.
We are going to reach a point of time in the game where i need some informations.


I never ever explain why or why I don't post in games. I think it's cheating as scum to say "I was doing x or afk" and by extension I can't do it as town either.

I play exactly as much as I can and want to. I've been hanged for refusing to explain my inactivity, both as town and as scum (see L as an example of me being killed as town when I was simply afk, and a recent igrok's old fashioned mafia game where the same thing happened but I was scum.)

Despite people attempting to read me based on activity, see for example foolishness's inane statement on my activity to my alignment. It's plain wrong.

So no, I'm not going to respond if I wrote that post "fuck I need to write something" or if it just happened to be a window where I had 2-3 hours to play the game.

It's your job to figure that out.
Computer says mafia
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
July 21 2012 17:15 GMT
#2465
Palmar two proven messenger roles that can target town. One is sum right? Its Chezinu imo imo.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22632 Posts
July 21 2012 17:20 GMT
#2466
I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role?
Computer says mafia
Katina
Profile Joined February 2012
United States454 Posts
July 21 2012 17:26 GMT
#2467
On July 21 2012 17:36 supersoft wrote:
katina looks pretty cute :-o
she cant be scum.


You're too kind.

Anyways, back to Mafia.

On July 22 2012 00:47 Palmar wrote:
if you can shoot tonight kill foolishness, syllo, katina, BM, zealos etc

I'll be around later


Why do you think I should be shot? You have yet to give any reasons to why you think I'm Mafia. You have done close to nothing this game besides popping in every now and then, and giving a brief hit and run then off again. You know who is known for hit and runs? Mafia, have you not seen the old Mafia movies??. Your uselessness this game has astounded me.

The same goes for Mattchew as well. Lack of contribution or care for find Mafia, close to no reads with almost no explanation or reasoning.
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
July 21 2012 17:32 GMT
#2468
Palmar - number of pages in filter by start of day 3 by game

Mafia
iGrok's Normal - 2.8
Emergency Mini - replaced in and had less than 1 page of filter
Liar game - 3.5
Werewolves - 2.5

Town
PYP redux - 3
JubJub - 4.2
Resistance 2 - 7 pages by start of Mission 3
Arkham City - 11.5
Mafia L - 3 pages at end of day 1 (he was lynched)
Election Mafia - 9 pages under hydra with syllogism.

This game you have barely made it to page 4....hmmm....
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
July 21 2012 17:32 GMT
#2469
On July 22 2012 02:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar two proven messenger roles that can target town. One is sum right? Its Chezinu imo imo.

Weren't you just trying to tell us sandroba was scum?
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 21 2012 17:37 GMT
#2470
Foolishness, do you have any powers?
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 21 2012 17:41 GMT
#2471
6. Foolishness
10. Meapak_Ziphh
7. VisceraEyes
16. GGQ
15. syllogism

at least 2 of them are guaranteed scum, otherwise the setup makes no sense balancewise.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
July 21 2012 17:50 GMT
#2472
On July 22 2012 02:32 Foolishness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2012 02:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar two proven messenger roles that can target town. One is sum right? Its Chezinu imo imo.

Weren't you just trying to tell us sandroba was scum?


AS usual, not reading the thread. It all revolved around my paranoid belief that sandroba was bussing his teammates and was an executive. This was disproven A) by him messaging me and B) by Kurumi flipping town.

Keep up Foolish, we can't carry you all game. Gonna have to do something bro.

BM has claimed some kind of vote-stealer. The fact that he claims it gives me hope that he's town, because I can see scum wanting to hide that power until necessary (Read: TL Mafia XLVIII). Jackal essentially won the game for us with it after we all mass-scum-claimed. *shrug*

He's calling me scum, but I think he's just misguided. He doesn't believe it strongly enough to push my lynch, and others have expressed at least passing suspicion of me (Mattchew, layabout?, marvellosity). Would scumBM not have pushed my lynch under these conditions if he were "suspicious" of me?

if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
July 21 2012 17:51 GMT
#2473
On July 22 2012 02:41 supersoft wrote:
6. Foolishness
10. Meapak_Ziphh
7. VisceraEyes
16. GGQ
15. syllogism

at least 2 of them are guaranteed scum, otherwise the setup makes no sense balancewise.


What does this list even mean? I don't belong on a list with Foolishness.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 21 2012 18:01 GMT
#2474
Town-vets&
26. Palmar town
3. Sandroba town
11. Supersoft town

???-Vets&
6. Foolishness
10. Meapak_Ziphh
16. GGQ
7. VisceraEyes
15. syllogism

Troll
8. Bill Murray
18. Chezinu

dead
25. RebirthofLegend town
19. Kurumi town
13. Wherebugsgo town


yes you do VE.
I devided the playerlist in two parts. in these parts in another 3 parts *4 parts for this part. because 3 of this list are already dead.
There were 13 players on that list. That means about 4 of them are scum. 3 of them are dead and one of them is me.
1 is sandroba and 1 is palmar. 2 of them are troll i cannot possibly read because they never make any sense.

syllogism makes most sense of the 5 remaining players. leaves you, mz, foolish and GGQ
if one of the trolls is scum
and i made one mistake,
2 of you are scum
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 21 2012 18:08 GMT
#2475
Palmar isn't town, how can you possibly believe that supersoft
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22632 Posts
July 21 2012 18:19 GMT
#2476
On July 22 2012 02:26 Katina wrote:
Why do you think I should be shot? You have yet to give any reasons to why you think I'm Mafia. You have done close to nothing this game besides popping in every now and then, and giving a brief hit and run then off again. You know who is known for hit and runs? Mafia, have you not seen the old Mafia movies??. Your uselessness this game has astounded me.

The same goes for Mattchew as well. Lack of contribution or care for find Mafia, close to no reads with almost no explanation or reasoning.


No, you're just not reading the thread.

On July 20 2012 00:20 Palmar wrote:
I'm also reconsidering my stance on Katina being scum. I assumed she must be town because of how confrontational she was with me and foolishness. But for some reason she seemed to think Bugs was scum at one point (other most likely wrong reads in that list include supersoft and of course sandroba wtf.)

I have a hard time believing even she could be this wrong.

Also, I'm not included in that list. At the time I was active in the thread and there wasn't much interest in attacking me. I wonder if she forgot about me, or left me out due to popular opinion:

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 09:26 Katina wrote:
bugs, you should really know better than to try to switch the vote train off of two people who were discussed at in length. You have caused a shitstorm now, and the votes aren't any better than they were 24 hours ago. The people voting for austin at this point:

supersoft
wherebugsgo
Bill Murray
sandroba
syllogism
risk.nuke
gonzaw

Looks like a pretty good mafia list. I wouldn't mind 4 or 5 of you dying.


Looks like she remembered me later though, and funny enough, she remembered me at a time where I was not active in the thread at all, however, due to syllo's accusations, a few people had entertained the idea of me being scum.

perfect opportunity to slide me back into her suspicion list.

Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 12:20 Katina wrote:
On July 19 2012 10:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I have had my vote stolen for the entire cycle.

Also I really don't like the idea of not killing kurumi today. The last thing we need to do is give up an easy scum kill.


It doesn't matter if your vote was stolen, just vote.

Why would we give up an easy kill? It will narrow down the scum count, that's what we need to win as town. If Kurumi doesn't die people are just going to derp around and be unfocused because he IS still alive. With him dead that's one less distraction and we can focus on the other scum such as:

Mattchew
Foolishness
Palmar
Blazinghand
Syllogism
Bill Murrary


At least she fixed sandroba out this time. Popular opinion important right?

Computer says mafia
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 21 2012 18:21 GMT
#2477
palmars performance so far is extremely poor that's true... However sandrobas scumrevealingpower makes one feel like it's unnecessary to analyze players.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
July 21 2012 18:23 GMT
#2478
On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote:
I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role?


The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so...
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 21 2012 18:25 GMT
#2479
On July 22 2012 03:21 supersoft wrote:
palmars performance so far is extremely poor that's true... However sandrobas scumrevealingpower makes one feel like it's unnecessary to analyze players.

You clearly don't know him at all while me and sandroba do and we both think Palmar is mafia. Why do you think he is town if you think his performance has been "extremely poor"? Do you honestly think your theory not only explains his overall behavior, but makes him town?
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25550 Posts
July 21 2012 18:25 GMT
#2480
On July 22 2012 03:21 supersoft wrote:
palmars performance so far is extremely poor that's true... However sandrobas scumrevealingpower makes one feel like it's unnecessary to analyze players.


I don't think that would stop a town palmar from doing analysis and scumhunting. Palmar isn't the type to blindly rely on an unconfirmed Follow the Cop strategy-- town Palmar is plain about his reads pushes, things aggressively, and openly scumhunts. He's also highly active. This departure from his meta isn't ENORMOUS (like, say, in purgatory where he barely posted as scum) but it's THERE. It's not like Palmar is an utterly incompetent scum player, I'm sure he's trying to mask his scum meta. He just hasn't done a perfect job of it, and we would be unwise to ignore it.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
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