Movie Star Mini Mafia!

On June 26 2012 00:33 marvellosity wrote:
:/ I've swung around again. I really think VE is scum, or actually quite possibly SK.

I'm making my town tell on his emotion to a null tell. He proved in LI he can get all 'emotional' as scum. Firstly I just can't get over the way he pushed me.





Ok, so we've established he thinks I'm totes amazing scummer. It makes absolutely no sense to me how he thinks someone as good at scumplay as I am would get myself into this situation. xscsc summarised it quite nicely:



This is the crux of it, and xcksc hasn't even seen my scumplay, but he understands. Yet VE who saw me trash town in LIV and LV as scum does not see it.



This doesn't add up. Clearly sidestepping Matt's question WAS NOT the correct scumplay. Just look at what's happened. There's a mental disconnect going on.



First paragraph is just trite, it says nothing. He's just explaining the wincon for a townie and scummer. I commented before on the 2nd part. Calling me out for finding him scummy, calling himself town. It's manipulative.



When I accused him before, I wasn't calling him scum because I was town. I'd said I had the perspective of 100% knowing I was town that others did not. I simply did not say he was scum because he was accusing me. Twisted my words.

---

On the day 1 lynch:

Realising he's not gonna get me through, he turns his attention to Zentor. Subsequently:



This is where it all gets odd. He doesn't want to lynch Zentor, and lists 3 other people. Who doesn't he name? The other leading candidiate, rastaban. He is realistically the only alternative, but nothing. Compare - slOosh was trying really hard to get people to switch from Zentor to rastaban, but VE? nothing. Let's see if VE ever talks about rastaban:



This is it. Nothing else. He never lets us know what he thinks of the alternative lynch candidate, despite promising to, and despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor. It's a half-assed, not-real attempt.



Except VE never tries to make ANYTHING happen. He says this and disappears.

---

I also feel like his pushing of prplhz is a sham. He came straight from LV where two townies pushed hard for a policy lynch on a player they disliked. He should know this isn't a scumtell. But it looks good to push someone on wanting a policy lynch like that, doesn't it?

Conclusion: All his scumhunting is a sham. He knows and states I'm an excellent scum player, but somehow then thinks I would come into this game as scum and play scummily. He twists my words. He never talks about rastaban despite promising to, despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor and rastaban being the main alternative. In fact he never pushes any alternative. Pushes prplhz because it's an easy thing to do.

I think VE is scum (or SK :D)

On June 26 2012 11:42 Probulous wrote:


Marvel started this game in an open manner by offering to answer any question asked of him but he was suprised by Mattchew's question and responded rashly. This in itself is not a scum tell, an off balance townie could do the same. But his subsequent insistence on not responding is damning in my eyes.
+ Show Spoiler [Marvs initial reaction] +

This is the key quote and one I keep coming back to. He has turned his initial confused response into a positive proof he is town. Why? This was very early day 1, VE had labelled him scum but VE always does this early and changes his position regularly. The simplest way to clear your name would be actually answer the question. Instead he uses the fact that he is acting scummy to try and clear his name, thus avoiding the work. Again, I can see a flustered scum here not sure how to respond so early in the game to this kind of pressure. So he decides to try and use that pressure to clear his name rather than doing the hard work and answer the question. It isn't easy playing a different meta than you are used to so if he could deflect the question he could continue to play his normal game. I am not marvellosity so I can't say whether he would respond the same way if he were scum or if he were scum, simply because I think he was caught off guard. All I can do is compare him to what I would expect a town or scum would do. I would expect a townie to say something like "Shit that's a hard question, give me some time to think about it" if he was thrown off balance.

+ Show Spoiler [My first response to Marv] +

By now he is adamant that he won't respond to the question. It has not become a case of being flustered but a concious decision. When I join in the questioning, he dismisses me. He fobs me off with a "go read the thread" response. This attitude of not wanting to contribute and making others do the work is scummy. It's sarcastic and designed to rile me up. He did a similar thing to VE. Why would you respond in this manner if you were town? The tone is designed to piss people off. Remember marvel has chosen to act this way. He believes that by playing a scummy game he can appear town. That is his whole exlpanation at this point, so if he is scum it makes sense to piss people off. He can create confusion and a massive shitfest which ruins day 1. He clearly doesn't think he will get lynched, he say so later.

VE, picks up on the tone issue in his next post.
+ Show Spoiler [VE] +
and I point out the ridiculousness of not answering the question
+ Show Spoiler [Probulous] +
By now Marv's play is clear, refuse to answer clearly and then use his scummy play as an excuse. He has already gained two votes which would normally force a townie to actually contribute but he doesn't. Why? because this is his plan. He wants to look scummy and then go "hey look I always look scummy as town".

Why the indignation here? Why is he is pissed off at both VE and myself for not realising that he is town because he looks like scum. It is a ridiculous premise so of course we want further explanantion.

Then VE comes up with the defensive nature of marvel's posting which marvel used as his defense. the way I read this, VE is simply stating that Marv is using his defensive posting as an excuse for palying scummy.
+ Show Spoiler +
Whether there are accusations or not is irrelevant. The point is you were using your defensive behaviour as a way to prove you're town. We cannot know this is true, there is no way of verifying it. Just because you were defensive in your last townie game does not mean if you are defensive here you are townie. ESPECIALLY if you use that as your defense. Again, surely a townie would just answer the original question clearly and transparently at this point. I mean both VE and myself were "obviously mistaken", but you didn't bother to clear that up did you? No the confusion was good, it was serving its purpose.

+ Show Spoiler [back and forth] +
I think VE got sidetracked here. Marv using meta is not a problem. As he states, the question was about meta. The point is that stating that "when you look scummy you are town" is not a useful use of meta. It doesn't answer the question and allows you to just refuse to answer. A useful meta point would be "when I am scum I tend to ..." not when I am scum I look like town. Anyway, I want you to note that he has now created a case against VE based on him being misrepresented twice. This will come up later.

This is a pretty good post from VE which is clearer than his previous ones.

The point being, answer the original question clearly and transparently if you don't want people to misunderstand your reply. At this point it is clear that marv has achieved a few things. He has the thread focused on him, he looks scummy but is using this to try and prove he is town, he has created some suspicion on VE. So I call him out on it.
Which is a nothing answer. I guess that is fair enough at this point. This next post is another key one.



So now the plan becomes clear. He was caught off guard early and made a response he would not normally make as either town or scum, but here he is saying the he would avoid it like the plague is he were mafia. But apparently not as town? It makes less sense from a town perspective to not answer a straight up question than it does from a mafia point of view. Mafia get away with causing a shitstorm knowing they are unlikely to be lynched. Why? Because he can fall back on his meta showing that he is careful as mafia.





Here we have the reveal that this was all a townie plan by Marvel to gain information on those pushing him. Really, well what has he gained so far? That VE may or may not be scum...That's it. In the process he has caused the whole thread to be entirely focused on him. Worse he doesn't regret it. He thinks it is a good idea. At this point we have had no other cases presented, no other scumhunting. Nothing. How is that a positive for town?

Anyway I outline my position here
+ Show Spoiler [probulous position] +
To which I get this enlightening response

WHY? Better yet why would you not do this as town. Especially after everyone starting piling onto you. Saying you are careful as scum is not a perfect defense that excuses you from participating. Note up till now he has provided nothing else. He hasn't pushed a case or done anything of value except defend himself with I am smart as scum so I wouldn't do that. I give you the perfect marvel plan. Play badly and then claim you have perfect scum play so you cannot be scum.

TLDR: marvel was caught off guard by Mattchew's question and chose to throw it back to the thread. This in itself could be a town response but when he told us that his scummy behaviour made him town, he hit on a plan to ensure he wasn't lynched. He knew his initial response was inadequate but chose to use his scummy response as a tool to cause confusion and shit up the thread. By never taking the multiples chances he had, to clarify his original position, he ensured that the mess continued for as long as possible. Whenever VE or I pushed him to contribute he could just reply with his meta defense that he cannot be scum because scum would never do this. If we believe that, then we would never lynch anyone. If he had just stated the truth, that he responded rashly and would take the time to provide a proper answer, I would have dropped this case. But his insistence that it takes up as much of Day 1 as possible makes me believe he is mafia.

##Vote marvellosity

On June 25 2012 07:39 rastaban wrote:
Well it was ignored day 1, but perhaps with more information available to us now you will see that I was correct in my original annalysis.

I will start with his post responding to my original post.


He ends with T.B.C. tomorrow, but as you will see he never followed up with anything to help town from this point on.
Let me lump he next few posts together.


Instead of contributing any original thoughts at all to the conversation he sits around asking 1 line questions with no follow up. This is a perfect way for scum to hide as it doesn't require any original thoughts from them.


Again we have a vote, this time on me but what is missing? Any reasoning on why. His biggest reason is to start working on a majority, but at this point we already had or almost had one on Zentor, so why vote for me over zentor? I think he just wanted to spread out the mafia vote so they weren't all on one guy.


This post is incredibly incriminating... he is fine with lynching 4 different people. He has yet to give a single reason on any of them but he finds all of them viable targets. To me this is the words of mafia and not a town player.


Another post where he asks questions of other players and yet still adds 0 to the game himself.




Now he agrees with someone, and says he had been thinking the same thing. He uses past tense and yet why didn't he bring the accusation forward or say something but instead waited on others? He has already said it shouldn't have taken me 30 minutes to put a case together against him, and yet he is so busy he can't not only put a case together but not even add a single original thought this entire game.

He hasn't added a single thing to this entire game, and his only time to post anything longer than a line or two was when he felt threatened. He promised to follow up but didn't, He was fine with lynching any of four people, never trying to narrow those results down to the right one because as scum he doesn't care who dies when they are townies..

##Vote risk.nuke