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Bastard Mafia 2 - Page 26

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 17:10 GMT
#501
Oh I thought that was aimed at me

fair enough
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
June 18 2012 17:12 GMT
#502
Who do you think is scum in this game, Drazerk.
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 17:16 GMT
#503
Scum

ET DB FF BSC (KB)

Third party

S+B Maju 201 (KB)

Null

Acro Hiro Dec xsksc Hyaach
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18287 Posts
June 18 2012 17:32 GMT
#504
Why do you think S&B is 3P?

Why is BioSC scum?

Why do you think FF made a case on ET if they are scum together? Early D1 bus? Or are you trying to say either one could be scum and you don't know which?
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18287 Posts
June 18 2012 17:34 GMT
#505
Btw, you're playing increasingly to your Holy Roman meta. You really just threw out a bunch of names without actually reasoning about ANY of them. You playing into your Holy Roman meta = me thinking you're scum.
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 17:37 GMT
#506
On June 19 2012 02:34 Acrofales wrote:
Btw, you're playing increasingly to your Holy Roman meta. You really just threw out a bunch of names without actually reasoning about ANY of them. You playing into your Holy Roman meta = me thinking you're scum.


You're gonna get no where from meta analysis so don't bother
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
June 18 2012 17:52 GMT
#507
On June 19 2012 02:32 Acrofales wrote:
Why do you think S&B is 3P?

Why is BioSC scum?

Why do you think FF made a case on ET if they are scum together? Early D1 bus? Or are you trying to say either one could be scum and you don't know which?


He thinks I'm third party because he doesn't agree with my case against him, as far as I can tell. And also because I went along with Talismania's attempt to get people to post cases? Anyway not for any good reason.

Oh and Drazerk, I disagree when you say "town fuck up, scum don't." Scum fuck up. That's why so many TL scum have been uber-lurking lately. If we don't make it uncomfortable for them, then they'll get away with it this time too.

Anyway even if they don't fuck up, getting them to talk is the only way we can figure out who is pushing the scum agenda. (hint it's you)
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 17:53 GMT
#508
I've not even read my role PM
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
June 18 2012 17:57 GMT
#509
If that's true then you should die ASAP.

You could be earning yourself a ban for actively playing against your win condition and you wouldn't even know about it.

I really hope you're lying right now.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 18:01 GMT
#510
I can only be playing as town

If I am scum it helps me survive and become more pro town

If I am third party it helps me survive and become more pro town
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 18:02 GMT
#511
Unless my role is village idiot in which case I would be...
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
June 18 2012 18:07 GMT
#512
On June 19 2012 03:01 Drazerk wrote:
I can only be playing as town

If I am scum it helps me survive and become more pro town

If I am third party it helps me survive and become more pro town


What if your role is "keep target player alive" and you lead his lynch? What if you're a lyncher and you defend your target? For someone who keeps saying "we need to consider all the scenarios" you seem to have considered none of the scenarios.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
June 18 2012 18:10 GMT
#513
Also I don't believe you. I think that anyone who puts in the sheer volume of time playing mafia and posting on this site that you do, would have enough respect for the rest of the people who are putting their time into this game to take it seriously. Not to mention potential teammates as scum or as third party. Or potential alternate town win conditions.

I think you're lying, because if you're not then you really do deserve a ban.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
KharadBanar
Profile Joined February 2011
Austria463 Posts
June 18 2012 18:10 GMT
#514
Now that I am back home, and have read up on the thread so far, I have realised that the mob of people wanting to lynch me still hasn't died down. Many people have argued against me with similar cases, and I want to respond to DropBear's post because I think it has, among other things, a pretty comprehensive collection of arguments that were posed against me.
I will throw my responses into the quote in bold text.

On June 18 2012 22:59 DropBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 21:13 Acrofales wrote:
On June 18 2012 20:03 DropBear wrote:
Lol Acrofales that first post started off with the lyrics from the matchbox 20 song 3am because it was 3am my time. I was saying that I don't want to join house Chezinu, whats the problem there? I very specifically took a stance against joining, how is that blending?

No shit Hiro never mentioned the King. I thought his recruitment drive thing was cos he was allied with the king and was asking him if it was true.

You don't mind my post as to saying why I find KB suspicious, but then you don't think its a reason to want him dead? That's a paradox. You can't like my reasoning and then tell me its bad reasoning. I want KB dead and I stand by that. You have omitted several of my posts that also indicate that I don't trust him.

This case seems poorly thought out man. I wouldn't go so far as to say manufactured, but poorly thought out.

If you don't think KB is town, why would you not want him dead as well?

I still don't understand how you ever got a link between Hiro and the king... it makes no sense. You didn't "very specifically take a stance against Chezinu", you said you didn't trust them "yet", which is about the same as saying nothing. Drazerk took a stance against Chezinu. I took a stance against Chezinu. Talismania made his opinon on Chezinu clear (saying he wanted more info before considering them). Nisani and KB also had a clear stance on Chezinu. You just blended, making a post that can be interpreted either way.

The same is your early pressure on KB: at the time it was good. It was a correctly voiced suspicion of some suspicious shit. However, he answered your suspicions. Your only real post about KB since then was "I want him dead". I guess when you say you've posted "other stuff on KB" indicating you don't trust him, you are referring to this:
On June 17 2012 11:47 DropBear wrote:
On June 17 2012 05:15 KharadBanar wrote:
On June 17 2012 04:50 DropBear wrote:
Something about this post from KharadBanar seems a bit off.

On June 17 2012 04:04 KharadBanar wrote:
If you read HiroPro's posts explaining how House Chezinu operates, you will come to the realisation that this isn't exactly going to happen. If they would tell you everything right from the get-go, they would lose some leverage after all because you don't need to join their organisation to get all that info, no? Everything comes at a price, and you as a Mafia player should be able to understand that.
By the way, the reason I am hesitant to give my roleclaim to them is that I Do Not Want potential scum members of the House to see my role. This should go for every townie: If you join The House and a scum member sees your role because of it, you are giving information to the whole scum team. The scum team operates on an information advantage already, and there is no need to let them get further ahead. So don't do it unless you have a good reason.


This is a whole bunch of filler really. You can say I don't want to join cos of lack of trust, why bother with the extended spiel about how giving info to scum is bad? Why crap on about how they can't tell everything? Are you trying to look like you are contributing?

You also don't seem to be including yourself in the townies you speak of, are you a third party KB?


Welp, there goes my "ignoring The HOUSE" stance, because I want to explain myself:
I bother with the extended spiel about giving info to scum because I do not think everyone in this thread had realised this by then. The scum team would presumably be very interested in getting one (exactly one) of their players into The HOUSE so they can use him as an information link between all the players in The HOUSE and their own team. We (the town players) are all on our own until we join The HOUSE, but when we join The HOUSE to have a side conversation in there, that one scum player will be very happy to listen in on that and pass it on to his team mates.
This is why I don't think that joining The HOUSE is advantageous to us. Finally, if we look at the extreme case where everyone but the anti-HOUSE players joins The HOUSE, we have a very weird situation where (I think) the Board of The HOUSE knows everyone's alignment but everyone else doesn't, and I have no idea who would profit from that but I don't want to try it out.
I just wanted to "crap on about how they can't tell everything" because I thought about the issue and wanted to share my thoughts about it with you, which doesn't strike me as a very bad thing to do.


Oh wow words words words this makes me think something is off about you even more. If we have any blues please kill/check him tonight.
+ Show Spoiler [Other stuff] +



Talismani, I don't have this information so are this king and monarchist activist person you speak of related or unrelated? My wikipedia search of what a monarchist activist is says that they support the crown, but may also support someone who has been deposed or rightfully belongs there

Does the monarchist activist support the current King or another one? I am guessing another one, as you say some people need to kill the activist. It makes sense that the current King and his subjects would want any challengers dead.

Furthermore, HiroPro I'm guessing you aren't the king himself but are allied with him/her?


You still haven't actually given a reason to kill him. Which comes together with my final answer to you: why do you think KharadBanar is scum. I think he's not town. I am not yet sure he's anti-town and don't find his behaviour actually scummy... it seems far more likely that he's a survivor or some other non-helpful third party. My priorities are on finding and killing scum. So far, you're still my favourite target and this defense of yours is unconvincing. I don't mind being wrong, though. How about you tell me why KB is scum and should die.

Yes he did answer my suspicions. With a post that made me more suspicious of him. I accused him of talking a lot and saying nothing, he replied, his reply was more of the same.

I think he is scum because he made a slip that is not including himself among town.

KharadBanar's response: In all the games I've read on this forum, this kind of argumentation has lead to more dead townies than scum. I wish people would take things like that less seriously, because this is equally likely to happen to everybody.

I think he is scum because of his constant apologising which shows inherent guilt.

KharadBanar's response: If you look at my filters in the two games which I have played so far (Newbie Mini Mafia VI and Newbie Mini Mafia VIII), you will see that I am a very "defensive" player regardless of alignment. I put "defensive" in quotation marks there because I'm not acting that way because of guilt tripping, but because I want the other players to understand my thought processes. All the things I said about House Chezinu were directly based upon that.

I think he is scum because of his flailing around based on popular opinion regarding house chezinu on night0 trying desperately not to offend anybody.

KharadBanar's response: I would not call my allying to the House "popular opinion". At the time, there was only Nisani201 who had already done that, and loads of other people in the thread were very skeptic of them. Also, letting one's opinion be influenced by others in the thread is not a bad thing. If nobody would ever let themselves get influenced by good arguments, we (town) would never reach a consensus which is very much needed at many points in the game (though possibly not Night 0).

I think he is scum because of his large wordy but contentless post saying things like "giving mafia information is bad" in 3 paragraphs that make it look like he is helping but he isn't.

KharadBanar's response: Again, read my filters in the previous games. Being verbose is just what I do, it is a character trait of me just like Drazerk's aggressive arguing and Kenpachi's disinterested trolling.

I think he is scum rather than a third party because Nisani is defending him and Nisani is dodgy as shit. Nisani defends him from both xcxkc or however you spell it and also myself.

Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 10:19 Nisani201 wrote:
I think the case is horrible. Could be a bus, not sure because I'm null on KB at the moment.

He takes out a lot of context from KB's actions, and he doesn't point out why points 1&2 are scummy.


Show nested quote +
On June 18 2012 10:26 Nisani201 wrote:
The third point is lacking "context." He accuses KB of being diplomatic with the horse chezinu but in reality that is not true.


As for this first post I made which you keep bringing up, I said I wouldn't join. And I didn't join. My actions speak for themselves.


As for a possible lynch, I have just come home and read up on the thread; I didn't have enough time to go through people's filters yet, which I will now do.

The only thing I can say for sure is that I don't like Drazerk's recent behaviour, especially his recent statement saying that he has not even read his role PM. Now I know that this per definition does not say anything about his alignment, but I think that Mafia, even if it's a bastard game, should be taken serious to at least some standard, because everything else is just retarded (imagine everyone doing that...)
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 18:10 GMT
#515
On June 19 2012 03:07 strongandbig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 03:01 Drazerk wrote:
I can only be playing as town

If I am scum it helps me survive and become more pro town

If I am third party it helps me survive and become more pro town


What if your role is "keep target player alive" and you lead his lynch? What if you're a lyncher and you defend your target? For someone who keeps saying "we need to consider all the scenarios" you seem to have considered none of the scenarios.


Read the last game - Keeping people alive fails the moment you die yourself

As for killing a specific person I want to kill everyone so that is unlikely
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 18:12 GMT
#516
Also this shows just how many people aren't reading the thread by the way

Just want to point that out
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18287 Posts
June 18 2012 18:14 GMT
#517
That you haven't read your role pm is about as true as that you had to sheep my vote in Holy Roman. I really dislike the way you're playing and you are definitely not helping town with it.

##unvote
##vote Drazerk
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
June 18 2012 18:15 GMT
#518
On June 19 2012 03:14 Acrofales wrote:
That you haven't read your role pm is about as true as that you had to sheep my vote in Holy Roman. I really dislike the way you're playing and you are definitely not helping town with it.

##unvote
##vote Drazerk


You keep mentioning holy roman

Read all my games

Realize what meta is going to do for you
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18287 Posts
June 18 2012 18:22 GMT
#519
On June 19 2012 03:15 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2012 03:14 Acrofales wrote:
That you haven't read your role pm is about as true as that you had to sheep my vote in Holy Roman. I really dislike the way you're playing and you are definitely not helping town with it.

##unvote
##vote Drazerk


You keep mentioning holy roman

Read all my games

Realize what meta is going to do for you

Point me to a recent, relevant, game in which you were town. I have read WaW2 and you played very differently. For one, you were verbose and not posting irritating 1-liners.

I have read Aperture, but you weren't town and were killed D1. So yeah, start pointing.

Also, lets assume you're telling the truth and you haven't read your role PM. We know you're not the MA, because a king was chosen. If we assume the MA is town, that makes you by far the best option for a RNG policy lynch, because the odds of you being town are less than for anybody else. Given that you are ensuring that any read on you is about as useful as a RNG policy lynch on you would be, this is an excellent choice for us D1!

Added bonus: we get rid of a confirmed troll, who is clearly not intending to contribute this game.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18287 Posts
June 18 2012 18:24 GMT
#520
Also, my not liking your playstyle and finding it anti-town is independent of your playstyle in Holy Roman. Its similarity is just making it even more scummy.
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