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On May 26 2012 08:38 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 08:34 Acid~ wrote:On May 26 2012 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
We should kill Acid as well cause he kept trying to find any excuse possible to get away from the zealos lynch. Killing me for making a bad read will not help the town. Let's vig Katina and then we can lynch one of you or VE. I made my case on why at least one of you is scum, I'll dig it up and repost it in the morning if need be. you can't just lynch one of us, you have to decide which one of us is scum if you actually believe that. So which one is it? Why can't we both be scum? Or town? Since there should be four scum, you need a read from the rest of the player pool too, right? Who would that be?
You could both be scum. If both of you are alive by morning, then there will be 0,01% chance in my mind that you are both town. I'm having a hard time reading either of you because you've both been acting like little schoolyard bitches towards each other. If you are both scum, then bravo. Well played. If you are both town, you should both be shot for incompetence.
After reading your filter, I'm leaning towards you being town. You pushed pretty hard for Zealos before his vote gained traction, there was really no reason to do that as scum. For the same reason I changed my mind on marvellosity, don't think he is scum.
So, Katina and VE and... I'm tempted to say HiroPro, because it would make sense for Zealos to make that gamble once he knew he was going to be lynched (if they are both scum, whichever one we lynch somehow absolves the other?)
In the unlikely event where both you and VE are town, then I'd want to look closer at Nova. I'm enclined to think that Tunkeg is just a bad townie, but I thought that about Zealos and I was wrong, so I don't know...
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On May 26 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 08:56 Tunkeg wrote:On May 26 2012 08:52 marvellosity wrote:Tunkeg, if you spent half the time scumhunting as talking about arguing, we'd actually be getting somewhere  True. I'll try to calmdown by tomorrow and be of any use. No dude try and calm down now - there are people here and we can actually do some shit. -.- I'm starting to think this is futile.
It is 02:00 and I am really tired. I will give you my imputs before going to bed though.
HiroPro kind of remind me of Katina in BC:AC, pretty lurky and only comes in to tunnel on me. I didn't believe she was scum that time, when she was. I think it is a hard case to make that HiroPro is scum only based on his tunneling on me and that he was Zealos target for DT (last part is so deep into WIFOM land that it is hard to write anything but speculations). I think HiroPro should be left alive for tomorrow, and see how he plays in the days to come.
Nova Terra and Mattchew I have suspected from mid day 1, and I am still suspicious. Out of these I find Mattchew most suspicious now. He is hardcore aggressive, borderline disruptive and in my view of the word very BM. His defense on Zealos I found very strange. He wrote this for instance:
First to discover Zealos claim:
On May 26 2012 01:23 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 00:43 Zealos wrote:On May 24 2012 15:34 Zealos wrote:
I can't believe no one else detects the Red on Hiro.....
I guess I'll try to convince you later, got an exam to run to. Was hoping at least one of the vets would pick up on this... you are not claiming detective... are you
Quick change of vote:
On May 26 2012 02:18 Mattchew wrote:
fuck this im not gonna be the one to lynch a claimed DT again
##unvote
##vote hiropro
Seems "confuesed" about lynching our "DT":
On May 26 2012 03:08 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 02:56 marvellosity wrote:
No, you're a liar, like you've been lying all game.
This is Mafia LI all over again.
Day 2 VE is under heavy fire. Comes out with a blue claim while bussing his team-mate. Team-mate gets infinite town credit (had the game not ended).
This is what is happening here. Whichever of Zealos or Hiro gets lynched, the other is going to get massive town credit. It's so see through.
heres where im baffled about you voting zealos, if he's scum like you think, hiro is scum too. if hes not scum, your lynching our detective, while you coulda been lynching a red-checked hiro
Taking precoutions for his choice to stick with Zealos as DT:
On May 26 2012 03:59 Mattchew wrote:
Just realized Imma look like quite the piece of shit if zealos flips scum...
w.e i think katina/hiro are scum
Is baffeled again over town flipping the "DT":
On May 26 2012 06:51 Mattchew wrote:
why are we flipping a claimed DT
this makes no sense
its GoT all over again
at worst we lose a VT in hiro
at worst we lose a Det in Zealos
I don't understand
And the toping on the cake is this question:
On May 26 2012 02:45 Mattchew wrote:
Do millers flip miller on death
In hindsight it is easy to see why he would be interested in knowing this. If we had lynched Hiro and he flipped green (and there were no miller reveal) scum would have used this to give us doubt about a Zealos lynch on day 3.
I believe Mattchew is scum. And should be out focus target on day 3.
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On May 26 2012 09:16 zelblade wrote:
I think the VE and WBG agurements are stupid.
Most of the thread does - it's why I can't get a damn wagon rolling XD
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On May 26 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, you missed the point, but that's okay...I'll just go reread the exchange myself.
What do you think about Katina, marv? Bugs and I have made our opinions known on the implications of Zealos' flip regarding Katina, but I don't recall your input.
I'm not sure what to make of Katina's non-response to the claim issue. She could be an apathetic townie, but I'm really not sure. I've struggled with Katina. I quote below my 2 main thoughts / thought processes on her.
Specifically if you're interested in Katina you should look at my 2nd post.
On May 25 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 01:24 Nova_Terra wrote:Then theres a couple worthless short defenses of herself. then this wonderful gem: ..... Not only is this completely stupid to have not seemed to read the thread, she says that my spam is similar to a game i played mafia in But wait, i was just in a game with you where i was town AND I SPAMMED So now shes just throwing shit to try to get a nice mislynch, doesnt matter if it makes sense as long as it casts suspicion, amirite katina On May 23 2012 06:52 Katina wrote:On May 23 2012 06:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Regardless of his alignment nova seems to post a lot. Over the span of a week in games where he was scum and town he had 8-10 pages of filter in both.
Only his first game seems to be an anomaly with 5 pages after 9-10 days but that's still quite a lot (especially for a newbie game)
So why is it, Katina, that you're trying to pass off Nova's spam as exclusively a scum trait? I'm not. I'm just saying he has done it before. Yay, Nova, a case! I've quoted the part I find particularly compelling. You see, you have a veteran player who knows how to play the game, and yet is lurky. This is at least forgiveable if when they do turn up, they say something of note. But here it's: Nova spams! And her response to wbg is even worse - "I know it's not alignment indicative, I'm just saying he spammed before". Her filter is short enough that when she contributes with the weakest sauce possible, it's superbad. What does everyone else think?
On May 25 2012 22:46 marvellosity wrote:
I am starting to think one of Katina and Nova_Terra has to be scum.
Why you may ask?
It all hinges on Katina. In LI, she was one of only two players who pegged Toad AND VE as scum. Great read. In Liar Mafia, she pretty much nailed all the mafia at some stage. In short, she has good reads.
In this game, this leads to the following possibilities:
1. She is town and correct about Nova.
2. She is mafia pushing a fake case on Nova.
Personally I feel Katina's presented case is fairly weak, relying on 'spam' as a central point, despite admitting to wbg it was not alignment indicative. This is why I am at the moment discounting
3. She is town and incorrect about Nova.
I know this sounds paradoxical. I just feel that a town Katina would not both be incorrect and pushing a weak case.
Personally I feel like option 2 is the most likely, in conjunction with her general apathy for the thread.
I would like everyone to seriously think about this and give me their thoughts.
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On May 26 2012 09:17 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:16 zelblade wrote:
I think the VE and WBG agurements are stupid.
Most of the thread does - it's why I can't get a damn wagon rolling XD
If you really think WBG is scum, why do you think he posted this :
On May 25 2012 01:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
Do any of you ever stop to think why Zealos may be impervious to a wagon?
Stop to think of why he may not be getting as many votes as we want him to.
Stop and reread his posts.
At the time, there was no real traction on the Zealos case, so it's not bussing his teammate.
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On May 26 2012 09:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, I can't accept that with my new Zen mindstate - we look at things from different viewpoints to see if the "decisive opinion" we've already arrived at still makes sense.
.....kay?
I had done already (because actually I like to be thorough) and I did provoke him more than once with my sarcasm. This lines up with my previous view.
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On May 26 2012 09:23 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, I can't accept that with my new Zen mindstate - we look at things from different viewpoints to see if the "decisive opinion" we've already arrived at still makes sense.
.....kay? I had done already (because actually I like to be thorough) and I did provoke him more than once with my sarcasm. This lines up with my previous view.
Well, then say that instead of "No fool I won't look at your viewpoint!" 
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Well, I thought you'd just drop it, but as you didn't I had to respond ^^
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Whilst I might be wrong, I dont think that scum will hard defend a fake DT claim like that. More likely than not it would seem that they would try and get the wagon going, but not actually push it hard to avoid the backlash from it. As such, the person I am probably most suspicious (from D2 lynch) of is froggy, who decided to not doubt the claim at all, only to backpedal on it when there was clearly some resistance, and it looked like zealos was still going to get lynched.
I will need to read his filter and stuff before I come to a decision on wether or not I think hes scum. Remember thinking him of not doing much (null) before this, but we'll see.
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On May 26 2012 09:23 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:17 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 26 2012 09:16 zelblade wrote:
I think the VE and WBG agurements are stupid.
Most of the thread does - it's why I can't get a damn wagon rolling XD If you really think WBG is scum, why do you think he posted this : Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 01:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
Do any of you ever stop to think why Zealos may be impervious to a wagon?
Stop to think of why he may not be getting as many votes as we want him to.
Stop and reread his posts. At the time, there was no real traction on the Zealos case, so it's not bussing his teammate.
Bugs also jumped off the Zealos wagon SUPER FAST when the Zelblade wagon happened, so I'm not finding any "to bus or not to bus" arguments very compelling at this point.
But anyway, I'm trying not to look at bugs right now, shoo!
What is YOUR interpretation of the Zealos flip Acid? What do you think about Tunkeg's opinion about Mattchew's behavior leading up to the lynch?
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On May 26 2012 09:26 zelblade wrote:
Whilst I might be wrong, I dont think that scum will hard defend a fake DT claim like that. More likely than not it would seem that they would try and get the wagon going, but not actually push it hard to avoid the backlash from it. As such, the person I am probably most suspicious (from D2 lynch) of is froggy, who decided to not doubt the claim at all, only to backpedal on it when there was clearly some resistance, and it looked like zealos was still going to get lynched.
I will need to read his filter and stuff before I come to a decision on wether or not I think hes scum. Remember thinking him of not doing much (null) before this, but we'll see.
Then who would you kill tonight if you had a gun?
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Tunkeg: the problem I have with that case on Mattchew is that I can easily provide the town narrative for it as well.
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On May 26 2012 09:31 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:26 zelblade wrote:
Whilst I might be wrong, I dont think that scum will hard defend a fake DT claim like that. More likely than not it would seem that they would try and get the wagon going, but not actually push it hard to avoid the backlash from it. As such, the person I am probably most suspicious (from D2 lynch) of is froggy, who decided to not doubt the claim at all, only to backpedal on it when there was clearly some resistance, and it looked like zealos was still going to get lynched.
I will need to read his filter and stuff before I come to a decision on wether or not I think hes scum. Remember thinking him of not doing much (null) before this, but we'll see. Then who would you kill tonight if you had a gun?
Katina or froggy depending what I think of him when I go and read him.
Also im going to go out so post later.
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On May 26 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote:
Tunkeg: the problem I have with that case on Mattchew is that I can easily provide the town narrative for it as well.
There's a town and scum narrative for virtually every action that can take place. Simply being able to provide both doesn't exclude the possibility of either.
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On May 26 2012 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
What is YOUR interpretation of the Zealos flip Acid? What do you think about Tunkeg's opinion about Mattchew's behavior leading up to the lynch?
I'm pretty hammered right now, let me sleep it off. I'm quoting this so I remember to respond. I'll do it before the end of the game night.
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On May 26 2012 09:32 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote:
Tunkeg: the problem I have with that case on Mattchew is that I can easily provide the town narrative for it as well. There's a town and scum narrative for virtually every action that can take place. Simply being able to provide both doesn't exclude the possibility of either.
Of course. But his posting I found consistent on the matter. If we took your view literally everyone would be suspicious all the time. The burden of proof lies with proving someone is scum, and my point is that in this instance I can easily read all those posts from townie Matt.
The Occam's Razor answer is that Matt was deeply uneasy about lynching a dt claim.
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EBWOP: just to provide a counter-example:
when I looked at Zealos' meta. As town he absolutely rejected placing fast votes, wanting time to think and analyse before placing votes.
Here he threw out 2 votes immediately in 2 posts.
Occam's razor says the two games he is playing different alignments.
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On May 26 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote:
Tunkeg: the problem I have with that case on Mattchew is that I can easily provide the town narrative for it as well.
Probably. But from my point of view it seems scummy. I think he wanted to play the concerned town role, but I think he overdid it. If he was dead certain Zealos was town and had indicated it before I might have bought it. But remember his vote was on Zealos just before the DT claim, so he should be in doubt. And I don't think a doubting townie would push this much for either side, he would vote, give his reason and let it play out.
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Thats my two cents on the matter anyways, off to bed.
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On May 26 2012 09:39 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 09:31 marvellosity wrote:
Tunkeg: the problem I have with that case on Mattchew is that I can easily provide the town narrative for it as well. Probably. But from my point of view it seems scummy. I think he wanted to play the concerned town role, but I think he overdid it. If he was dead certain Zealos was town and had indicated it before I might have bought it. But remember his vote was on Zealos just before the DT claim, so he should be in doubt. And I don't think a doubting townie would push this much for either side, he would vote, give his reason and let it play out.
Okay, fair enough that you think that but I don't subscribe to it.
His vote was on Zealos despite previously it being on zelblade and saying he wasn't at all sure on Zealos. He moved it to Zealos with the comment that he was doing so because VE/me/wbg believed him to be scum. This was not a strong read on Zealos. It makes sense to me that Zealos DT claiming was easily enough for his opinion to sway back.
People get very, very passionate about blue claims.
Hell, in LIII I was town and I absolutely crusaded for VE's lynch after he blue-claimed day 1. Turns out I got him lynched, turns out VE was in fact blue, turns out I was townie.
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EPT
