EPTplaying far too safe for a mayor and has almost null read from his post that are not part of his election campaign
TL Mafia LV - Page 86
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Hyaach
Singapore1737 Posts
playing far too safe for a mayor and has almost null read from his post that are not part of his election campaign | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
This time he was looking good on the surface. Looking like some guy who was not sure about what's going on, looking like some guy trying to help town in figuring out what's going on but as MZ has already pointed out it only looked like that on the surface and in reality it has no basic point or idea behind. He just did those things for the sake of doing them. Now as you can see VE hasn't done any weird shenanigans ever since the game started. As mentioned that is because he is trying to look normal and good, also you will realize that he only started behaving weird to a point where everyone agreed that it's weird and not just my funny "he's looking good therefore he has to be bad) after being pressured a lot. Look at the case he did after he got pointed at. Now look at mafia LI Look at the weird shit he has done before being pointed at. That's right, you won't find any. Look at that weird vote from gambit to zealos to someone else I can't remember. WBG has pointed that out somewhere saying something along the lines "That's incredible scummy but it's VE and VE does weird things as town" and here's where I disagree. VE does weird things as town ON HIS OWN. However, this time all the weird things started happening AFTER we got that case on him and people voting him. Look at his claim. Wtf is that supposed to be? "olol I can shoot someone, that proves I am town!" I doubt it. And don't even try to look for KP, mafia will make sure to not spread out their kills the next night leaving us in a situation where we won't know wether or not someone was doublestacked and VE is good or wether VE is just a liar. His claim is utterly useless for determinating his alignment and he knows that. Anyways wanted to post more but have to leave, my train is going to arrive in 15 mins... cya later. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On May 31 2012 20:01 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah honestly if Wiggles flips town VE shooting him proves nothing. We need VE to shoot someone and have that person flip scum to confirm his role. yes sure, but Wiggles and VE aren't both town. | ||
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Hyaach
Singapore1737 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 31 2012 21:26 Hyaach wrote: we can WIFOM with VE after he shot someone we want. and doublestacked is actually good. That's 1 less death a night. How does that not benefit town? I missed my train, now I have to sit here another hour  (*hinthint* this is not a breadcrumb. I'm not some freaky 3rd party trying to find the conductor to get into some secret place!)Anyways: doublestack means either wbg, mz or I am dead. That's not helping town at all. | ||
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Hyaach
Singapore1737 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
One thing I'd written down before I came to VE's case is the absolutely odd occurrence of people vaguely, kinda, sort of being suspicious of kita. wbg's 'he kinda feels scummy' sentiment, VE's *earlier* non-case followed by OMGUS vote and unvote, Toad's 'scum coz of meta I won't elaborate on' and Probulous' case that wasn't quite a case. What's going on here? My read on VE is all over the place. I was leaning town, now I'm not so sure. I agreed heavily with wbg's post here: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 12:32 wherebugsgo wrote: ok VE just did two incredibly scummy things. First of all supersoft pointed out something very valid: VE was all for pushing zealos but not actually putting his vote where his mouth was. Five minutes after supersoft posts this, VE makes a post unvoting gambit and voting Zealos. That's scummy thing #1. Scummy thing #2 is when some random guy comes in the thread and calls Hyaach scummy. VE immediately lets go of his Zealos vote and then votes Hyaach. It's like he has no sense of consolidation and he's just going with the flavor of the moment. This is what he did in LI where I came in the thread and said "hey hassybaby is scummy" and then VE voted hassy after I voted him, and kept saying how he was willing to kill him but changed his vote later anyway. The only problem is that in recent games VE has been willing to put together a bunch of names as scum all at once and he hasn't been afraid of calling them all out regardless of how strong the actual cases are (though he himself feels strongly about them, I suppose) usually though he tunnels at least one of the players. Right now I'm not feeling like VE has any sort of real conviction, and at the very least town VE has balls. All this rings true. I just don't get the flip-flopping. If townie VE was confident enough to shoot at Zealos night 1, why is it so hard to get him to keep to a vote on him today? Unfortunately, my thoughts very much sheep wbg's: On May 31 2012 17:00 wherebugsgo wrote: I don't like lynching VE cause he always flips town whenever he does scummy shit. On May 31 2012 17:04 wherebugsgo wrote: For now though my vote stays on Zealos since I'm more confident that he's scum. Based on VE's past few games I can't say I have what it takes to get a proper read on him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Probulous and anyone who cares to read - please take a look over my filter for my thoughts regarding Zealos. Other people made what cases there were to be made based on Zealos' posts, and I have tried to explain why I think I have a meta handle on him and why he's scum. There's one post I refer to early on in my filter about Zealos that VE made himself, but didn't directly quote, so here it is, as I thought it was a very strong point: + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 01:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Posts like this really irk (pun intended ^^) me. First of all, it's clear by SS's post that he's suspicious of Zealos - that is to say, that he thinks he's scum. Yet Zealos' response is "But I'm townie, why do you want to kill a townie?" The obvious answer is that he doesn't - if you ask anyone in this game, literally anyone, whether they want to kill a townie, scum and town alike are going to say "of course not what a stupid question." No one WANTS to kill a townie...but the idea that Zealos is attempting to plant here is that supersoft wants to kill a townie. It's a manipulation move. Don't let it work. I feel way more confident in Zealos than I do in my read on VE, who I very rarely get an accurate read on. Right, back to read the major cases. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
The lines that are awkwardly long (in german as well) don't really fit the pattern, but whatever, here we go: (0:16) "We lynch mafia day one" is what your tatto says "lynch mafia until they're gone" that used to be your ways (0:27) It's called a No-lynch and we really just can't. You are considering it and you don't want to talk about it but it's what you really want. (0:39) But is that still mafia? Doubting yoursell until I frown Is that still mafia? Considering everyone to be town That's about as brilliant as a two year old infant Is that still mafia? - I don't think so (1:12) You used to be involved when we lynched into a vet this time you just proclaimed we shouldn't take the bet (1:23) Since this game started you stopped caring about a lynch for that matter You are claiming to vote a nobody to make sure the votes are scatter'd (1:35) But is that still mafia? Doubting yourself until I frown Is that still mafia? Considering everyone to be town I don't want to spoil the party but do we really need to screw this Is that still mafia? - nope (1:55) You're not willing to lynch anyone you're behaving a little bit like everyone's in this zone that's protecting shit out of everyone (2:07) That's not going to win the game That's really such a shame because you're the one to blame I'm not allowed to flame (2:16) (Because) is that still mafia? Doubting yoursell until I frown Is that still mafia? Considering everyone to be town you should just ask yourself what people postgame will say themselv' Is that still mafia? - I don't think so Long story short: Stop being pussies and vote VE. Zealos' lynch is a good one as well but VE's lynch is way better. If Zealos (somehow) flips town we're exactly in the same situation we were d1. Some guys saying "well, that's bad" and noone really cares because noone knows him good enough to make a proper read out of him on d1 or d2. So get some balls and lynch VE to make up for the most horribad lynch I've ever seen on d1. And most importantly: GET IN HERE AND VOTE, I DON'T WANT A NO-LYNCH BECAUSE 20 PEOPLE HAVEN'T VOTED AND THEN SUDDENLY ALL VOTE IN THE LAST SECOND | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
VE, I know that before you had trouble putting together a Kita case previously, and the one you put forth, at least for me, feels like you rushed it out in response to the case on you. Seems to be based on Kita's meta and his focus on the lyncher during D1 discussion, and just doesn't provide as solid a case as MZ's on you. When you tried to put together a case on Kita before, were there any other points that didn't make it into this case? Anything recent, past the lyncher discussion? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 30 2012 08:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Nah Forumite was likely double-stacked if I had to guess, so we're looking at ONE missing KP. And if I had to guess, I'd say it was at me because I was roleblocked overnight. Current scum-meta is roleblock/kill to hide the roleblock. I bet I took a hit and some loverly medic thinks I'm the stuff. ^^ On May 30 2012 09:41 wherebugsgo wrote: I was roleblocked and took a hit last night. Going to assume that means a jailor protected me from a scum hit. I'm also going to assume it means that lurker I called out is probably scum. As far as VE's vig claim goes, I'm not terribly inclined to believe it given his posts concerning zealos today and the breadcrumb. But it feels like between the possibility of jailers and roleblockers, a single roleblock claim (assuming we think VE is lying about the roleblock) is a little light? Maybe someone roleblocked a lurker thinking blue, and they haven't checked in to notice they were blocked or claimed, but that's my only real misgiving about a VE lynch at this point. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I get that he's been front back, left right, up down with regards to Toad. What I don't get is why he'd do so as scum, why he almost voluntarily posts a target on his back by posting about it. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
But his play this game reminds me too much of the scum play from him in wheel of fortune. It seems no one checked this out in my last post, so I'll post again the link to radfield's case which nailed him that game. In addition to that, his defense of himself was kind of similar, although he took a somewhat different attitude towards Radfield's than to MZ because of their different reputations. Anyway in that game he also posted a longish case after being seriously accused, which he framed as "whether I live or die this person is scum so here's my last help to town." But the main thing is both games include him jumping around between lynch targets and not making a really serious case until after someone made a big serious case on him. ##vote: visceraeyes Just an FYI, though - I'm not 100% confident in this vote. Wbg is right that lynching VE is always risky, plus I'm not sure that VE would be so open with his buddying as scum. The thing is, he could. I think we need to keep up the pressure on gambit and zealos - especially gambit, since he still hasn't even responded to the mason question. I also want to keep it up on supersoft. Apparently other people are giving him a "free pass" for his shitty ass posting night one, but it's high time to step it up. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 31 2012 23:22 strongandbig wrote: If VE flips town I'm going to feel like a ginormous turd since he's been defending me. However, as I said about someone else earlier, sideways defense of a townie is a common scum play. The thing is, defending a bad townie is scummy because it's also what town should be doing... But his play this game reminds me too much of the scum play from him in wheel of fortune. It seems no one checked this out in my last post, so I'll post again the link to radfield's case which nailed him that game. In addition to that, his defense of himself was kind of similar, although he took a somewhat different attitude towards Radfield's than to MZ because of their different reputations. Anyway in that game he also posted a longish case after being seriously accused, which he framed as "whether I live or die this person is scum so here's my last help to town." But the main thing is both games include him jumping around between lynch targets and not making a really serious case until after someone made a big serious case on him. ##vote: visceraeyes Just an FYI, though - I'm not 100% confident in this vote. Wbg is right that lynching VE is always risky, plus I'm not sure that VE would be so open with his buddying as scum. The thing is, he could. I think we need to keep up the pressure on gambit and zealos - especially gambit, since he still hasn't even responded to the mason question. I also want to keep it up on supersoft. Apparently other people are giving him a "free pass" for his shitty ass posting night one, but it's high time to step it up. snb - did you take the time to read and evaluate VE's case on kita? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
Town people, what is the argument against giving VE a target tonight and lynching zealos or gambit? I get that we still won't be sure of VE's alignment if his target dies and flips town, since scum could divert a kp; but how is forcing scum to divert a kp to someone we might otherwise mislynch not a huge win for town? | ||
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Hyaach
Singapore1737 Posts
On May 31 2012 23:28 strongandbig wrote: VE do you have any bullets left? Town people, what is the argument against giving VE a target tonight and lynching zealos or gambit? I get that we still won't be sure of VE's alignment if his target dies and flips town, since scum could divert a kp; but how is forcing scum to divert a kp to someone we might otherwise mislynch not a huge win for town? this | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
There's the problem. VE has cherrypicked his points. In conclusion he gives a typical 'town kita' post, followed by a pointless post from kita with the associated "look difference lol!". But actually I can easily find a few of kita's posts from this game that line up with VE's typical kita town post. Part 2 of the case is mostly a rehash of earlier concerns about kita being 'obsessed' with the lyncher, which VE didn't find strong enough. So Part 1 is added with a shoddy meta attack. You scum, VE? | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
Blazinghand, We'll see how many non voter we have, I'll think about it | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
We have the best possible night for town, and we want to lynch a claimed blue, vet? We should take this time to lynch lurkers and scummy newbs, because we have been afforded the opportunity to by our protection roles. Think about who you want to make your reads on later in the game, someone you've played with and is active, or someone that posts once a cycle and you hve never played with and is like flipping a coin. Lynching VE is straight up stupid and if he flips town, it is taking away a scum night kill and a town KP. Do you really think scum are going to shoot players like cwave, hyaach, grush, manason, gambit? These are the players we should be lynching (or SnB cause he claimed scum and I mean just look at his vote on VE that leaves a disclaimer about VE flipping town, 90% reasoning being meta while a quick 1 line about VE's vote switching) because when we get to the late game, these are the players that lose town games | ||
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