EPTOn May 13 2012 12:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I think he's scum right now. What do you think of Palmar?
I think he's scum right now. What do you think of Palmar?
scum
Liar Game Mini Mafia - Page 73
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EchelonTee
United States5245 Posts
scum | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
Day 5: B ![[image loading]](/staff/Ver/misc/cliargame149_017eng.jpg) Yes: 7 Gonzaw EchelonTee Sandroba Cephiro Mr.Wiggles prplhz Sloosh No: 3 Meapak_Ziphh Palmar Katina That means the following seven players are up for lynch: Gonzaw EchelonTee Sandroba Cephiro Mr.Wiggles prplhz Sloosh Day 5: B ends in 23 hours and 20 minutes. Please get your votes in by then. My apologies for the delay. | ||
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Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
*cue Cephiro shitting on me again* Everybody except those 2 need at least 8 votes to be safe from the lynch, and we need to come up with something to counter-act any weird gambit from those two or other scum. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
Anyway, if you are going to kill me, I'm going to give 5 votes to sandroba. Because if you keep killing anything else than the other scumteam, you're heading straight for a loss. And at this point even though it's clear sandroba is the remaining yokoya scum, the town will need his votes if you decide to kill me. As if I die, the town is down to 5 players, minus possible nightkills = 3-5 players alive for D6 if I am the only one to be lynched. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 13 2012 13:36 Cephiro wrote: Lol gonzaw? Like I've shat on you the whole game.. Anyway, if you are going to kill me, I'm going to give 5 votes to sandroba. Because if you keep killing anything else than the other scumteam, you're heading straight for a loss. And at this point even though it's clear sandroba is the remaining yokoya scum, the town will need his votes if you decide to kill me. As if I die, the town is down to 5 players, minus possible nightkills = 3-5 players alive for D6 if I am the only one to be lynched. So, let me get this straight: First of all, let's assume you are town, alright? Now, you know only one of you or sandroba will die tonight, and nobody else will give you any votes. Also, you think sandroba is the remaining scum from the Yokoya mafia. What would happen if you give sandroba votes? Then the only one that would die is you. That means town would get to N5 with 5-3-1 numbers, and maybe up to 3-3-1 on D6, which means we are very screwed. What would happen if you don't give sandroba any votes? Then BOTH of you would die, netting us another scum kill, and scum would have 1 less KP since we would wipe off one of their families. If you see both choices, then the 2nd one is obviously the one you would make as town. You didn't make it, then it's safe to assume you are scum, since you offer no other plans to not "keep killing anything else than the other scumteam". Also people, I think I came up with a plan to get either sandro or Cephiro lynched, even if another scum decides to out himself to give those 2 votes. I'm gonna check it out with ET and MZ first, but if they approve it it's good to go and I'll post it here. So please don't vote yet. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
"Now, you know only one of you or sandroba will die today, and nobody else..." | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
If sandro dies: 6 Town - 3 Scum If we both die: 5 Town - 3 Scum Add +1 KP on top of that... If I die: 4 Town - 1 Scum - 3 Scum (1 rival scum is not enough of a threat for them to kill sandro yet) If sandro dies: 5 Town - 3 Scum If we both die: 4 Town - 3 Scum It would be retarded to let sandro die at this point just to lessen the kp, as if he shoots town his own chances will just worsen. = He will effectively try to kill a member of the other scumteam (assuming he has the kp I think he has). What you fail to realize is that the scumteams are not on the same side. This is not a town vs scum game. This is essentially a Team Town vs Team Scum 1 vs Team Scum 2. At the moment the non-Yokoya scumteam has the momentum, and soon they cannot be opposed. Sandroba should be left alive as he has to play for his wincondition, and if townies keep dropping, he will have to work WITH town to have a chance of winning the game. Capiche? And considering the fact that I am a VT, none of you listen to me, I think I am playing for my wincondition better if my votes save sandro, a possible KP + votes to work together with. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Also, how should we believe you are telling the truth about your votes? If you are scum from the other team, then you can easily bluff just so we give you more votes to get both you and sandro lynched, then you'll get sandro lynched alone and you can survive another day. Anyways, doesn't matter since you are scum as well, and most likely from the other team so you dying will actually fulfill exactly what you are preaching I'll show you guys what you should vote today to ensure one of Cephiro or sandro, or both get lynched today, no matter what (I guess ET will be okay with it, didn't get a PM from him back though) | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Voting system for Day 5 Image: http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj144/gonzaw1/votes.jpg That is how you guys should vote. Search your row, then search the columns to the right. The X row meeting the Y column means that the player X should give the player Y c[X,Y] votes. For instance, prphlz should give Wiggles 2 votes, and sloosh 3. Why do it like this? There are 50 votes in total and 7 players in the majority. 50/7 rounded up is the amount of votes needed to be safe from the lynch, which in this case is 8. As you can see, everybody except sandro and Cephiro have 8 votes each, meaning they are safe from the lynch, meaning that if those 8 players vote like that, one or both of sandro and Cephiro will be guaranteed to be the lynch. Why this strange voting system then? Why not just have all those 8 players give votes randomly so those 5 players get 8 votes each? Because someone from that list of 8 players (me, ET, Katina, Meapak, Wiggles, Palmar and prplhz) may be scum and choose not to follow that voting system. He may do that to actually give sandro and Cephiro votes so someone else is the lynch. How can this happen? Okay, imagine that Cephiro gives sandro 5 votes (which he actually claimed he would do) and sandro gives Cephiro 5 votes. In this case, then sandro and Cephiro would have 5 votes each, while the rest of the players would have 8 votes each. In this scenario, both sandro and Cephiro would effectively be lynched. Now, what happens if one of those 8 other players is scum, and instead decides to give sandro/Cephiro 2 and 3 votes respectively? Let's call this guy "Player X" Imagine Player X gives sandroba 2 votes and gives Cephiro 3 votes. What would be the tally then? sandroba would have 7 votes, while Cephiro and the others would have 8 votes, so sandro would still get lynched, right? Wrong. Since Player X was following that plan, it means that at least he gave one of those other 5 players 1 vote. If he lied about it and used his 5 votes on Cephiro/sandroba, then it means that player would get at least 1 votes less. If that player had 1 vote less, then it means that he will have 7 votes along with sandroba. This means that both sandroba and this player get lynched. If that player had more than 1 vote less, then it means that player will be lynched alone. Examples of potential mass-town kills: If Player X gave two player 2 votes and another one 1 vote, then he would effectively lynch the first two players, while sandroba and Cephiro would both live (those 2 players would have 6 votes each, sandro 7, and Cephiro and the rest would have 8). Also, if Player X gave 5 different players 1 vote, then he would effectively kill 6 people (sandroba plus those 5 people he voted before, since all 6 would have 7 votes). "Okay" you might tell yourself, "This is independent of the actual way people vote, so what's the deal with this actual system"? First of all, if we use a random way to determine how those 8 players vote, then it's likely Player X gives me and/or ET votes. Meaning, if Player X is willing to out himself as scum to save both sandroba and Cephiro, he can get either me or ET lynched, or even both! Unless one of you wants to raise your hand to call us scum, then you can see why that's a bad situation. Because of that, I tried to minimize the the amount of potential "Player X"s that vote for me and ET. So the only ones voting for me and ET are:
I'm pretty sure ET and MZ are town, and it's likely Katina is town as well. This would mean that no "Scum Player X" can choose to kill one of us to save sandro+Cephiro. Even if one of those were scum, then I doubt he would out himself as scum to get us killed, considering his whole cover would be blown. Even if he does out himself to kill either me or ET, then even better. You would have a scum handed to you in a plate that would have been very hard to find otherwise. So that leaves how many votes these players give/receive:
And this player that's in the minority:
By the way the system works, those 4 players can give votes only to people from that first group above. Meaning, if Player X were to be one of those, then he can only get people from said first group to die (if he were to make that gambit I described above). If Player X were to do that, then by killing one of those people he wouldn't harm town too much (he would also remove a potential suspected townie for a next lynch), and he would also out himself as scum so we can get him later. Even more, I made the system so each of those 4 players only gives 1 of sloosh/Wiggles/prphlz 3 votes, and another one of those 2 votes. What does that mean? It means that if Player X wanted to make his gambit, then he can get only one of them killed. How's that good? It's good because Player X could potentially kill various townies like I said before. This way of voting counteracts that. Conclusion:
So people, unless you have any questions or complaints, follow this plan. Make sure to PM me/ET/MZ your votes as well. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Oh yeah, if someone can post the actual image then it would be great. I dunno why but when I post it it cuts off the edges >_> | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Conclusions:
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Oh yeah, in the "If 2 scum decide to out themselves" they can only kill me/ET if one of those scum was Katina/me/ET/MZ. If both scum were Palmar/Wiggles/sloosh/prphlz then me and ET would still survive. (yeah I think that's the last correction I'll make >_> ) | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I wont be around until tonight though. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 13 2012 16:03 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Obviously everyone should be able to see why we're following this plan today. Honestly if I see any opposition to this plan it'll make me seriously question your alignment. Yeah, obviously we should follow a plan where everything is based on the assumption that I am scum. Now when I'm not, you're screwed (unless you're scum.) I would not be surprised to the slightest to see you flip red. Anyone that doesn't understand why sandroba should be kept alive regardless of being the last remaining yokoya scum is either scum for trying to kill him, or then a really stupid townie that is being deceived. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On May 13 2012 16:26 prplhz wrote: Well then seriously question my alignment. I wont be around until tonight though. Why won't you follow it? What alternative do you propose? On May 13 2012 16:37 Cephiro wrote: Yeah, obviously we should follow a plan where everything is based on the assumption that I am scum. Now when I'm not, you're screwed (unless you're scum.) I would not be surprised to the slightest to see you flip red. Anyone that doesn't understand why sandroba should be kept alive regardless of being the last remaining yokoya scum is either scum for trying to kill him, or then a really stupid townie that is being deceived. From your own POV you should have 0% problems with my plan and would actually want to follow it. If you want to keep sandroba alive as you claim, then there is absolutely no problem with my plan: You give sandroba votes and you will die instead, just like you wanted earlier. There is absolutely no contradiction with my plan and the plan you mentioned earlier (getting you to die alone). Of course, you are scum so you need to invent some excuses and create strawmen to oppose anything that's productive for town right? And no, I'm not a "scum for trying to kill him" nor a "really stupid townie that's being deceived", because I want both you and sandroba dead, not just him. sandroba will flip Yokoya and you will flip the other scum mafia. We will be at 6-2-0 at night and be in a strong position tomorrow. Why am I sure both of you will die? Because I know you won't give sandro any votes. I mean, why would you want to keep another scum from a different faction alive but you die instead? You know it's probable he will shoot into your team these next nights, so why would you keep him alive if you have the chance to kill him no matter the outcomes? Answer: you wouldn't. Nope, you won't give him votes, and nobody will (remember his buddies are dead). Your buddies won't give you votes so they don't out themselves, and both of you will die. Also by following my plan your buddies can't save both of you and get another townie lynched or something That's the plan and I'm sure it will work, so I'd think twice before calling me "really stupid townie that's being deceived" again if I were you. | ||
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Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
If I have to choose between me and sandro dying, it shall be me. Even though I am town, it is more beneficial for him to stay alive than me. What you refuse to realize this that the other scumteam is so close to reaching half of the voting power that they don't really care whoever dies as long as it's not them. At the moment they'd preferably want town dead, as town currently possesses the highest risk for them, so they won't mind me dying at all. If you kill me, there is no possibility of us being 6-2-0 at night. If you kill sandro, I still find that impossible, as I am sure that sandro is the last remainder of yokoya scumteam. Your theory of us both dying is based on your misguided thoughts of me being scum. This is where you go wrong. I will certainly give sandro all 5 of my votes, unless there are some townies that want to co-operate with me. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
prplhz I'd advice you seriously reconsider your position. | ||
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