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I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things.
1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts.
2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
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Not sure what to say Lazermonkey, it looks bad.
I'm conflicted though, as I was the person that led the lynch against Lazermonkey in my first mafia game for similar reasons, i.e., he had made what appeared to be obvious scum tells, and he became the obvious lynch (like Jailbreaker this game) and then he flips town.
I think that gives me enough doubt right now, that if I'm convinced in the case against Golden, will be pushing for that lynch.
I'll post more once I've done some work and had a chance to go through the case again.
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On May 04 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote:
I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things.
1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts.
2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
Vague nods to this whole post. The whole situation is retarded. I'm afraid I've stopped thinking about this game in any way, so I will not be able to answer any questions you have.
I will vote whichever way town tells me to vote.
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Frankly, imo, if someone is leaving the game on Day 3 they should just be mod-killed. This is stupid.
Yes, I'm moaning at the hosts right now.
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P.S Pure - if Lazer did something similar before and got lynched for it, he should have learnt his lesson and you should lynch him this time.
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I've gone through Marv's Golden case again, and believe it's the most concrete case we have, and I follow his reasoning that leads him to his conclusion.
I really don't feel good about the SexDoll replacement based on what I've read so far, and I've posted what I think about this.
So yea.
##Vote: SexDoll
Additional concerns, Lazer's made an admitted lie in order to alleviate suspicion to avoid being lynched. On its own this seems really bad to me.
The_Zen_Man needs to contribute.
Also, someone out there knows some concrete evidence. I'm in two minds about this, because I think the info can be used now. If it's not going to be, then it has to be used at the end of the night. That's my opinion anyway.
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On May 04 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote:
I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things.
1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts.
2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
hey, we both play a ton of werewolf on 2p2 and 2p2 is probably the biggest site to play ww. It's also a fairly tightknit community. 2p2 was hacked last week and has been down. We aren't the samer person. My 2p2 name is Aksdal and I have like 14k posts there. Youngunz has a ton of posts too.
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On May 04 2012 23:17 SexDoll wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:38 Pure-SC2 wrote:
I feel like we're being messed with here. Sexdoll signs up to the forum Tuesday, his first ever post is offering himself up as a replacement in this game.
Then we get this whole charade? WhySoMuch "knows" Sexdoll from some other site, they have this nice little byplay - oh he's actually younguns there lol lol, heyya babe, and of course Sexdoll knows him and he is likely a villager based on his experience with him.
Isn't that sweet, the internet suddenly seems like such a small happy place, where two people who played something similar on another site manage to not only end up in the same game on this site, but have all this experience playing together.
I think it's one of two things.
1). They are the same person and totally fucking with us. This was my first impression based on Sexdolls posts.
2). They are friends who are communicating out of band and acting like they aren't.
I don't like it at all.
Marv, I'm going to spend the next bit going over your case on Golden. It read good the first time but there were a few things I wanted to look at closer. Don't you think it's weird that WhySoMuch has dropped his number 1 scum read on Golden? His reason initially was that he didn't think anyone would support it, so now you've made a good case, why the hell isn't he even pushing it?
hey, we both play a ton of werewolf on 2p2 and 2p2 is probably the biggest site to play ww. It's also a fairly tightknit community. 2p2 was hacked last week and has been down. We aren't the samer person. My 2p2 name is Aksdal and I have like 14k posts there. Youngunz has a ton of posts too.
I can confirm (I had a staff member do an IP check) that SexDoll and WhySoMuch are NOT the same person. This is a very serious cheating accusation (we permaban people for playing on 2 accounts at the same time in the same game). Please don't throw around this accusation so lightly in the future. If you really think this is happening, contact the host of your game.
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so I just read Marv's case on me/golden. I appreciate his effort but the problem with it is that I think he's confusing sub-optimal/bad play with scummy play. It's an important distinction that a lot of ppl get confused about. I'm not going to read all of Golden's posts because it really doesn't make sense for me to do so, but I imagine that most of the factual things that marv said about golden's play this game is probably true. He probably fluffed a lot, probably didn't push his "top" reads very hard, and probably made some contradictions. It sucks that he can't respond to any of that now, but since I know that he was a townsperson, I will try to shed some light on what was most likely going on.
First of all, the fluff/post length thing is pretty role neutral and will be determined more on the players personality/style than his role.
Also, when ppl say stuff like, x,y and z are my top scum reads atm, then proceed to push z over x, that doesn't mean theyre complacent to lynch whoever or that they're contradicting themselves by not pushing x super hard. It just shows a slight lack of confidence in all of the reads, which is totally normal. This is a game of vague information.
I want to talk about something specific in marv's case that was brushed aside when he made his case, but is actually super important. When he said, my scum leads are Aces, x and Veriat, then he says he's fine with lynching veriat, Marv says taht this is super scummy, which doesn't make any sense. Scum in that scenario say stuff like, "Veriat is fine but I prefer Aces." They don't volunteer their bros to get lynched like that.
On 2p2 we call it bussing when one scum pushes another so that's what I'll call it here. The way that went down is NOT how scum bus each other. It makes no sense. There are 2 approaches that make sense in s/s interactions like that. 1 he would agree that veriat is probably a wolf but try to get aces lynched over him and 2 he would push him in a way that would be clearing for HIM. Golden got 0 credit for the veriat lynch because he deserved 0 credit for it. It makes no sense for him to have pushed Veriat like that if they were s/s.
Further, saying stuff like, "if veriat flips town I'm coming after these ppl tomorrow" or w/e he said just makes him look even worse. Scum are more calculated than that because they have to be. And based on what I gather from his posting style, Golden would be an exceptionally calculated scum.
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But your explanations are decent and as I don't care too much I'll happily vote Lazermonkey.
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although there are holes too, but meh.
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On May 04 2012 17:50 The_Zen_Man wrote:
clipped
Please make a better explanation to why i should be "turbolynched" if lazer flips scum?
Also, try to read all of the thread before forming a opinion.
Re the turbolynch comment, lazer's position on you and the other dude (i forget who it was) makes you and the other guy very unlikely town/town if lazer is scum. the fact taht you're likely a townsperson based on veriat's case on you actually makes lazer a more likely villager.
Don't take it personally if I think you're a scum. It's probably more beneficial for you if I give you my thoughts as I go along so you can see how I'm thinking more clearly. I should read teh whole thread all at once but I feel like i would forget too much about who said what because I don't know anyone and am not super familiar with this platform for it to be worthwhile. I'm basically going to read ppl through filters and if I see something important, I'll look at entire conversations around posts.
I also work a lot so I do have time constraints.
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On May 04 2012 23:40 SexDoll wrote:
I want to talk about something specific in marv's case that was brushed aside when he made his case, but is actually super important. When he said, my scum leads are Aces, x and Veriat, then he says he's fine with lynching veriat, Marv says taht this is super scummy, which doesn't make any sense. Scum in that scenario say stuff like, "Veriat is fine but I prefer Aces." They don't volunteer their bros to get lynched like that.
On 2p2 we call it bussing when one scum pushes another so that's what I'll call it here. The way that went down is NOT how scum bus each other. It makes no sense. There are 2 approaches that make sense in s/s interactions like that. 1 he would agree that veriat is probably a wolf but try to get aces lynched over him and 2 he would push him in a way that would be clearing for HIM. Golden got 0 credit for the veriat lynch because he deserved 0 credit for it. It makes no sense for him to have pushed Veriat like that if they were s/s.
Agreeably, Golden's concise and clear posting is indicative of him being clever/calculated. But does this really mean that he's a mastermind mafia as well? If the mafia had intentionally planned for veriat to be bussed from the start, and they were all clear about this, then it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't be the last vote (more likely the first vote). But this is making many assumptions about Golden, and the mafia. This leads me to wonder things like, what if Veriat opted-out mid-day1 and Golden decided he'd rather be on the bandwagon when he flips then off? Sure, he didn't get definitive credit for the veriat lynch, but what if he was just trying to get (at least some) town credibility in general? What if he was just annoyed at veriat, and as the opportunity presented itself, he just decided to boot him?
I'll re-read the case against Golden, Jailbreaker's response/apology, and try looking at WSM again; but I think Marv's case against Golden is the best lead right now. This replacement stuff is really confusing reads though (not directed at you specifically sexdoll, but as there have been two replacements, it's annoying.)
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EBWOP: Lazer's* response/apology
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On May 05 2012 00:40 nreekay324 wrote:
Agreeably, Golden's concise and clear posting is indicative of him being clever/calculated. But does this really mean that he's a mastermind mafia as well? If the mafia had intentionally planned for veriat to be bussed from the start, and they were all clear about this, then it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't be the last vote (more likely the first vote). But this is making many assumptions about Golden, and the mafia. This leads me to wonder things like, what if Veriat opted-out mid-day1 and Golden decided he'd rather be on the bandwagon when he flips then off? Sure, he didn't get definitive credit for the veriat lynch, but what if he was just trying to get (at least some) town credibility in general? What if he was just annoyed at veriat, and as the opportunity presented itself, he just decided to boot him?
I'll re-read the case against Golden, Jailbreaker's response/apology, and try looking at WSM again; but I think Marv's case against Golden is the best lead right now. This replacement stuff is really confusing reads though (not directed at you specifically sexdoll, but as there have been two replacements, it's annoying.)
If there is ever a plan for scum to bus each other, they're going to make sure that they are the ones who get credit for lynching their bro. They do this by pushing them hard and leading the lynch. If a strategy was involved, tacking on was not part of it.
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On May 05 2012 00:40 nreekay324 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 23:40 SexDoll wrote:
I want to talk about something specific in marv's case that was brushed aside when he made his case, but is actually super important. When he said, my scum leads are Aces, x and Veriat, then he says he's fine with lynching veriat, Marv says taht this is super scummy, which doesn't make any sense. Scum in that scenario say stuff like, "Veriat is fine but I prefer Aces." They don't volunteer their bros to get lynched like that.
On 2p2 we call it bussing when one scum pushes another so that's what I'll call it here. The way that went down is NOT how scum bus each other. It makes no sense. There are 2 approaches that make sense in s/s interactions like that. 1 he would agree that veriat is probably a wolf but try to get aces lynched over him and 2 he would push him in a way that would be clearing for HIM. Golden got 0 credit for the veriat lynch because he deserved 0 credit for it. It makes no sense for him to have pushed Veriat like that if they were s/s.
Agreeably, Golden's concise and clear posting is indicative of him being clever/calculated. But does this really mean that he's a mastermind mafia as well? If the mafia had intentionally planned for veriat to be bussed from the start, and they were all clear about this, then it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't be the last vote (more likely the first vote). But this is making many assumptions about Golden, and the mafia. This leads me to wonder things like, what if Veriat opted-out mid-day1 and Golden decided he'd rather be on the bandwagon when he flips then off? Sure, he didn't get definitive credit for the veriat lynch, but what if he was just trying to get (at least some) town credibility in general? What if he was just annoyed at veriat, and as the opportunity presented itself, he just decided to boot him? I'll re-read the case against Golden, Jailbreaker's response/apology, and try looking at WSM again; but I think Marv's case against Golden is the best lead right now. This replacement stuff is really confusing reads though (not directed at you specifically sexdoll, but as there have been two replacements, it's annoying.)
A bunch of supersolid points that I didn't have the energy to make for myself.
An extra one being
Also, when ppl say stuff like, x,y and z are my top scum reads atm, then proceed to push z over x, that doesn't mean theyre complacent to lynch whoever or that they're contradicting themselves by not pushing x super hard. It just shows a slight lack of confidence in all of the reads, which is totally normal. This is a game of vague information.
One of the main points of the case was that Golden took so damn long making up his mind, constantly stating that he wouldn't make scumreads until he was sure. But then when he did he changed them immediately. Bad.
Re: replacements. I totally agree with you, and I know it must have been really hard for the rest of you when I replaced in (especially as Aces had already been suspicious). Imo replacing someone at the end of day 1 for not voting is just about acceptable (although difficult for everyone), replacing midway through Day 3 is simply not.
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On May 05 2012 00:46 SexDoll wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:40 nreekay324 wrote:
Agreeably, Golden's concise and clear posting is indicative of him being clever/calculated. But does this really mean that he's a mastermind mafia as well? If the mafia had intentionally planned for veriat to be bussed from the start, and they were all clear about this, then it makes sense that the mafia wouldn't be the last vote (more likely the first vote). But this is making many assumptions about Golden, and the mafia. This leads me to wonder things like, what if Veriat opted-out mid-day1 and Golden decided he'd rather be on the bandwagon when he flips then off? Sure, he didn't get definitive credit for the veriat lynch, but what if he was just trying to get (at least some) town credibility in general? What if he was just annoyed at veriat, and as the opportunity presented itself, he just decided to boot him?
I'll re-read the case against Golden, Jailbreaker's response/apology, and try looking at WSM again; but I think Marv's case against Golden is the best lead right now. This replacement stuff is really confusing reads though (not directed at you specifically sexdoll, but as there have been two replacements, it's annoying.) If there is ever a plan for scum to bus each other, they're going to make sure that they are the ones who get credit for lynching their bro. They do this by pushing them hard and leading the lynch. If a strategy was involved, tacking on was not part of it.
You seem to be missing what nreekay is saying. Specifically the bit in bold.
People do not always behave in either the optimal way or the way you would expect them to.
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I'm making assumptions because of my experience and my intuition. I like to think I'm a pretty good judge of character
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One thing I thought about yesterday, was how Golden opted out the moment the pressure really came on, i.e, 40 minutes after Marv states:
On May 03 2012 21:30 marvellosity wrote:
At this stage golden is my main scum-read. You may understand why this is extremely time-consuming to put together
40 minutes later, Golden posts that he's pulling out of the game. That's one way to avoid the pressure on you and meaning you don't have to answer a case I suppose.
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EPT
