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On April 25 2012 20:32 Ace wrote:
As for his role claim I've thought about it and I'd say that while it's possible he is lying, someone would have counter-claimed by now unless they too are a One-shot Cop. If that's the case then they would have also used their investigation last night and after seeing Radfield claim should come out and clear another Townie (unless they are holding on to a Scum investigation which frankly makes no sense). That hasn't happened so far so I think it's safe to assume at the moment Radfield's claim holds up. If there are no other Cop claims the only thing I would believe Radfield lies about is his one-shot status. It would make a convenient SK or Scum claim but until Day 3 winds around we've just got to take him at his word for now. It would also make sense as an actual Cop to claim 1-shot status to avoid being hit by Scum but I highly doubt Radfield would lie knowing the drama it would cause. It also would be pretty dumb to risk all that just to confirm me when I was never a major suspect anyway
Uh, the only one that could counterclaim IS the one-shot cop, and that's under the assumption that wbg stayed true to the C9++ setup in that aspect and picked only one one-shot cop. So it could be a gamble by scum, since there is also the possibility that there is no one-shot cop at all.
For example, if scum consists of Goon and Godfather only, and there is no SK (as it seems now), than there is only one blue role, if we stay true to the C9++ setup. The chance that this blue role is a one-shot cop is rather small. This would give scum good opportunities to fake-claim.
I understand that this is unlikely, but it should not be left out.
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On April 25 2012 20:16 Bluelightz wrote:Sup bros, my blue mind say's that The Zentor lynch is moving too easy ( as radfield has already mentioned). For now, as a preemptive guess on who is scum it is:Snarfs, strongandbig, and a veteran player. Snarfs because: Snarfs and s&b seem to be trying to distance themselves from each other, also that, he is pushing the easy targets today, Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 08:40 Snarfs wrote:
Based on what I just posted, I'm also feeling a Zentor lynch. That said, it's still VERY early in the day so I'm not going to stop questioning other people.
##Vote MrZentor Next, I find it odd that he picked s&b out of all people to call out in his first few posts. Lastly, I see a problem with how HE scum hunts, Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 02:07 Snarfs wrote:On April 24 2012 01:18 strongandbig wrote:When it comes to actual suspects, I'd like to point to Snarfs. He's done a few things so far that make me suspicious. First, we have + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 09:12 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 08:53 Sbrubbles wrote:
That said, I suppose it might be a good strategy to claim if the masons are two relatively new players (like myself), in that it would draw fire away from more veteran town players.
If the masons do decide to claim, though, I don't think we should waste town powers confirming them. I'd be happy with believing them and only doubt them if they start acting specially scummy or aren't dead by day 4. Cops are here to investigate scummy players, not to confirm townies. I agree with all this also. That said, I agree with the hydra in that it's time to stop talking about the masons and to start hunting scum. In this post, he says that we should be hunting scum, but in none of his later posts does he actually do any scum hunting. My scum hunting method is my own. I like to ask people questions based on their actions when I notice something weird and gauge their responses. Me asking you and Zentor, as well as Ace and Radfield, to explain your actions is my method of scum hunting.-snip- I don't see how asking someone to explain their action's is an effective way to scum hunt, I think that it is easy for one to make one's action's look town.
strongandbig because: First, because oddly he picked Snarfs to make a case on, I feel that they are trying to distance themselves from each other, next, in his first post he spent an awful amount of space for a way for people to breaccrumb stuff -.-. Lastly, he made an awful sheep vote on Zentor.
Honestly I think both could be town, but I have a feeling that there's scum in them, just maybe,##Vote: strongandbigFor now.
So what is it now? first you come and say they are both scum, build a case around that assumptions and in the end you say the could also both be town? Way to put pressure on them, I'm sure they are both terrified now. Or perhaps only one of them is scum, and the other is not? And you just keep us in the dark who is what? Nice way to set yourself up for some towncred if one of them flips scum.
Also, I've never played scum, but building a case on early D1 and then defending that case with an equally long post on D1 just to distance yourself from your scum buddy? Hardly.
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On April 25 2012 22:13 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 22:03 Ace wrote:On April 25 2012 21:59 Bluelightz wrote:On April 25 2012 21:27 Ace wrote:
bluelightz: There is a problem with saying the Zentor lynch is moving too easily - yesterday it barely moved at all. If you're going to assume Zentor is innocent based on the wagon moving too fast, then what about yesterday when it stalled?
The case on Zentor is solid enough that it isn't unreasonable to expect his lynch to actually MOVE today. The problem is that from past experiences with Zentor I feel that he is town, and we will mislych today because he doesnt bother to defend himself, AGAIN. Comparing to: SoAF Mafia, where he was all trololol day 2 till his claim and reads. A player that doesn't bother to defend himself should be given a pass? IMO would scum do this? Not defend and trololol?
If it makes you look townie, yes.
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Forumite: He has focused a lot on Zentor, and barely spoke about anyone else. He posted frequently, asking a lot of questions. I haven't noticed anything particulary scummy, but it's the same in the other direction.
LOL, ok, so...
On April 25 2012 22:48 Bluelightz wrote:
Hmm, unvoting s&B, suspecting phagga. strongandbig is town, IMO.
Why the change of mind? What did you find that makes s&b town now?
On April 25 2012 22:48 Bluelightz wrote:Snarfs I'm waiting for his response. ##Unvote: strongandbig
Blue's journey to phagga's first 4 post's Post #1 Can't get a read of this one, simply telling that he'll read will be decided on his next post Post #2 Hmm, recycling points Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:ok, catching up. game mechanics stuff:
- Hydras should sign. Everything else lowers transparency for town.
- After reading all the pros and cons, I'd support a mason claim day 2. Reason: Many Vets + 2 masons = too many targets to handle for scum. D3 might be too late because of counterclaim (depends on nightkills and SK situation).On to more important stuff in no particular order: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Random reads, did you guys notice that he just threw those reads out of nowhere? I think that he's trying to contribute random crap that means nothing to discussion, and he's even recycling some of the stuff like on his Ace points.
I already discussed this in this post, as Radfield brought up the same point.
On April 25 2012 22:48 Bluelightz wrote:[/B
post #3
takes two lines of stuff to say that the defense is bad huh?
post #4
Careful much?
Those were an answer to this question.
On April 25 2012 22:48 Bluelightz wrote:[/B
******
After that, I feel that he's trying to be useless with his vote:
First vote, on Marvellosity who I think is town, he votes ezpz only by saying that he sheeped etc.
Second, on Zentor he provides a reason: I was suspicious of him already on day 1, he refuses to bring more stuff to discussion of Zentor.
******
Yeah, I actually thought I lined out on D1 why I found him susicious. Rereading my own filter now I see this is not correct. So in short, the reasons I'm voting him:
- Contradictions:
- Says that Hydras signing their post should not be a topic as it is obvious, but complains he could not bring that point up himself.
- makes a list where he writes how important it is to decide on a lynch target but a) brings that post less than an hour before deadline and b) decides 30 minutes later that he wants to no-lynch.
- Claims to write a really long post why prplhz is scum, but the post is just full of quotes, and without them not long at all
- No intention to scumhunt
- Unhelpful to town
- claims he is vanilla town, but does not want to talk about his scum targets until masons have claimed.
This is from the top of my head and my notes, without rereading his filter.
On April 25 2012 22:48 Bluelightz wrote:
Super interesting post before I end this:
On April 24 2012 06:16 phagga wrote:
If I counted right these are the current vote leaders:
marv: 4 votes
snarf: 3 votes
Zentor: 2 votes
the rest is 1 vote or less.
I'm off to bed in about 10 mins, need to get out early again tomorrow.
Useless huzzah!
First: votecount, LOL, this means nothing as y'know we can count votes too!
Second: Im going to bed bro, fluff!
First: There was no votecount for a long time. I intended to help. That's not the first game I've done that.
Second: That was shortly before the deadline. I wanted people to know that I will be no longer around as a lot of discussion was going on at that time. Also:
[B]On April 23 2012 01:01 Bluelightz wrote:
Some further reasoning
Policy Lynch -> Easily avoided by scum, like LaLurkers avoided by being active, or LaLiars, hmm can't explain but it just saying that it will be hard to prove that they are lying without a DT check or something.
[b]I'll be sleeping now.
Last read: Toad hydra is town because he has started poking at people for possible scum slips and has been active.
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EBWOP ok I rushed my post... the formatting is off and the first part of forumite was not supposed to be part of this post, but whatever.
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I wanted to write a longer post about a few people, but barely had time. The Bluelightz case came and i wrote the answer in the same notepad file, thinking I had moved away everything. Looks like I was wrong.
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Bluelightz: I already asked you this yesterday, why do you no longer think that s&b is scum?
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On April 26 2012 06:24 MrZentor wrote:
Phagga- He has posted a lot of fluffy posts, and he accused me but switched to an easier lynch after it became obvious that I wasn't to be lynched
I switched because I wanted to avoid a no-lynch, and people seemed unwilling to lynch you. And why was marv the easier target?
On April 26 2012 06:24 MrZentor wrote:Fluffy post! + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:ok, catching up. game mechanics stuff: - Hydras should sign. Everything else lowers transparency for town. - After reading all the pros and cons, I'd support a mason claim day 2. Reason: Many Vets + 2 masons = too many targets to handle for scum. D3 might be too late because of counterclaim (depends on nightkills and SK situation). On to more important stuff in no particular order: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction.
Again? I already answered to Radfield about that (who didn't seem to care) and to Bluelight (who didn't seem to care) and now you bring this up as well?
As I wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 21:39 phagga wrote:@Radfield: + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 19:22 Radfield wrote:Marvellosity, you need to step it up. More content please. Also, if you want filters do the work and make them yourself, it takes all of 5 minutes. Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:ok, catching up. game mechanics stuff: - Hydras should sign. Everything else lowers transparency for town. - After reading all the pros and cons, I'd support a mason claim day 2. Reason: Many Vets + 2 masons = too many targets to handle for scum. D3 might be too late because of counterclaim (depends on nightkills and SK situation). On to more important stuff in no particular order: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. This is the definition of a 'safe' post. Everything in this post is a popular opinion that has already been mentioned by someone else. It hits slightly on all the major points of this game, without going into detail on any of them. Zentor -> parroting Forumite and talking like Zentor is scum, yet not stating that explicitly nor voting for him. Visceraeyes -> following Toads lead(backed by me), and again indirectly talking as if Visceraeyes is scum(or SK), without actually saying it. Ace and Radfield -> again parroting others points and slinging a bit of mud towards two strong players, without actually calling them out. So phagga, what is your actual opinion here? You seem to think both Zentor and VE are scummy, yet are doing nothing about it. Additionally, I have responded to Shrubbles, what do you think of my response? My problem is that I have a hard time making out something new, something that has not been said yet. There is not much content so far (which is partially my fault), and there is a lot of game mechanics talk that does not really show anything about the alignement of players, specially as pretty much everyone involved in the discussion agrees on the general concept. What exactly do you expect? That I'm going to make stuff up only for the sake of being original? Also, You can believe me or not, but the fact that Ace was only talking about game mechanics and not trying to scum hunt crossed my mind before he was called out for this by someone else. Alas, I was too slow, so it looks like I'm parroting. I'm still a bit undecided on who to vote on, which is way I have not voted yet. I think it is going to be VisceraEyes for now, but I want to read through Zentors filter first. Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 18:37 Radfield wrote:On April 23 2012 12:39 Sbrubbles wrote:
Radfield, you are the one looking the most suspicious to me right now. On the Zentor/prplhz exchange, you defend Zentor, but agree with Forumite on Zentor's case on prplhz being weak:
1Correct. I'm not sure what you find suspicious about that. Someone making a weak case is certainly no indication of them being scum, especially when that case is made in the first half of day 1 I didn't think Zentor's case was strong, yet I also didn't see Zentor as scum. However, both of those things may change with time.
And now, you're indirectly accusing prplhz, even though there has been no case on him (besides Zentor's, which you implied was weak) and haven't made one of your own. What's up with that?
2Something about prplhz is tickling my senses, though I haven't reread the game yet. I started to last night, but was too tired to focus. So now I'm up early with the intention of putting in some time before work. Prplhz is simply a bit too quiet for my liking at any rate.
Also, you were the first to offer to vote VE (without an actual explanation as to why), and waited until someone else appeared voting for him in order to actually cast your vote. Is this merely a coincidence or were you waiting for someone else to accuse and vote him in order for yourself not to stand out?
3My reasons are my own for voting VE, though they will materialize in the thread before the day is out. The short version is that I've played scum with VE lately, and so far this reminds me of that game. 1 I agree with you that it's no issue. 2 So you just fling some mud into a vets direction without any hard facts? 3So you have a good reason to vote VE, but withhold because... well, you keep us in the dark why you are not telling us. why can't you tell us? Is the explanation going to be so long, are you waiting for more info? I don't see you as scum atm. I just thought that sbrubbles actually saw two good points (the second and the third) and I wanted to point out that I share his sentiment and that I want your reaction too.
On April 26 2012 06:24 MrZentor wrote:Switching to another target because I'm not getting lynched; also, I think a town would have pushed me harder to answer his question. He would also get frustrated with me. (See Prphlz) + Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 05:31 phagga wrote:
I still would have liked an answer from Zentor, looks like I won't get one. Also most people do no longer seem willing to lynch him.
So for prplhz it's a town tell when he gets frustrated with you, and for me it's a scum tell?
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On April 26 2012 07:00 Radfield wrote:
I think one of phagga or VE should be our lynch today, maybe snarfs. Those three are certainly at the top of my charts right now, though I still have yet to check marv. I'm going to spend some time and break the three of them down this evening, and see which one jumps out at me. A case is forthcoming.
Could you also shortly explain me why you think that I'm scum? And please answer my question this time and don't ignore me again.
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Where the wild roses scum grows:
VE: He is my next top suspect, which is probably not very surprising. I already was suspicious of him on D1. I wrote back then that I got the feeling he improved, this changed again on D2. Several good points have been made about him, I'm not gonna reiterate everything. He looks extremely unmotivated through the whole game. He has almost only delivered thoughts on players when asked for it, and his change of play is so absurdely different from what we're used from him that I doubt he really is town.
prplhz: He is suspicious at least. Had Zentor turned scum, he would have been semi-confirmed town after tunneling him so hard. Now it's possible he just used it as an excuse to not participate in scum hunting D2. He voted Snarfs on D1 without any reason after attacking Zentor already.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 00:52 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 23:56 SamuelLJackson wrote:
"Just because I'm attacking your argument for him being town doesn't mean that I think that he's scum. I am suspicious of him, but for other reasons."
Reasons other than him possibly being scum? And you want to lynch him for those reasons?
How about you stop telling me what you are not saying and actually tell me wtf you ARE saying. "being scum" is a pretty good reason for lynching people but I don't know if anybody is scum. I think that his defense of MrZentor was really weird and he's no where near as active as I'd like him to be. I don't want to lynch him as much as I want to lynch MrZentor right now but I think that a lot of people still need to speak up before I can make my mind up. MrZentor is the best thing right now in my opinion but I don't think it's bulletproof at all. On April 24 2012 01:36 prplhz wrote:
##Vote Snarfs On April 24 2012 05:32 prplhz wrote:
Yea I'm against Radfield/Ace/SamuelLJackson lynches too, lets stop even discussing them.
90 minutes until lynch, I'll be here up until deadline (horay eurofriendly deadlines!)
Honestly, if I had a gun I'd shoot MrZentor. His initial aggression seems fake to me and he's pretty much quit this game and apparently doesn't want to be a part of the lynch. It's just too much bullshit and I see no explanation for this. I think he should be our go-to-lynch today.
@phagga Why are you buddying me? Especially, you complain when marvellosity voted for Snarfs because he did so on bad reasonable, but I never ever put any reasonable at all and you didn't complain about that. prplhz, you never explained why you voted snarf, what was up with that?
Also note how he was active at game start, but then gradually got less active, and has been lurking almost all of D2 (his last post is over 30 hours old). All this together make him suspicious for me, but it's not enough to lynch him today. I really look forward to hear some scum suspects from him including some reasoning why.
Marv: From staying under the radar to blatantly sheeping Ace, he has pretty much not put any effort into finding scum. His case on Radfield centered around Rad defending Zentor. I know people say he is a good late game player, but that's also a great excuse for a scum to just do nothing the first 3 days until it's almost too late for town. Also, there is quite some material of every player to analyze, so I don't really see why he should not try to come up with is own reads by now.
Concerning Bluelightz: Besides sbrubbles he is the only one I have played several games with (Werewolves 2, Aperture and Bastard). The way he is putting effort in this game seems rather townish to me. While I do see Aces point about Bluelightz switching targets and therefore risking to derail the discussion, I rather think that this is Bluelightz not thinking twice about what effects his behaviour has (see DFM2 for an extreme example), or overthinking what effects his behaviour has. In my experience, when he is active like this and when some effort is visible, he is probably town.
Concerning Sbrubbles: He has never been a man with a huge filter, see Aperture as example. The fact that he tries to come up with his own original points and the way he pushes VE I'm leaning town on him.
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EBWOP aarrrgh, stupid me, that question was not supposed to be in the spoiler...
prplhz, you never explained why you voted snarf, what was up with that? Also, care to share your current scumreads? Or participate at all?
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On April 27 2012 17:41 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 17:32 phagga wrote:prplhz: He is suspicious at least. Had Zentor turned scum, he would have been semi-confirmed town after tunneling him so hard. Now it's possible he just used it as an excuse to not participate in scum hunting D2. He voted Snarfs on D1 without any reason after attacking Zentor already. + Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 00:52 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 23:56 SamuelLJackson wrote:
"Just because I'm attacking your argument for him being town doesn't mean that I think that he's scum. I am suspicious of him, but for other reasons."
Reasons other than him possibly being scum? And you want to lynch him for those reasons?
How about you stop telling me what you are not saying and actually tell me wtf you ARE saying. "being scum" is a pretty good reason for lynching people but I don't know if anybody is scum. I think that his defense of MrZentor was really weird and he's no where near as active as I'd like him to be. I don't want to lynch him as much as I want to lynch MrZentor right now but I think that a lot of people still need to speak up before I can make my mind up. MrZentor is the best thing right now in my opinion but I don't think it's bulletproof at all. On April 24 2012 01:36 prplhz wrote:
##Vote Snarfs On April 24 2012 05:32 prplhz wrote:
Yea I'm against Radfield/Ace/SamuelLJackson lynches too, lets stop even discussing them.
90 minutes until lynch, I'll be here up until deadline (horay eurofriendly deadlines!)
Honestly, if I had a gun I'd shoot MrZentor. His initial aggression seems fake to me and he's pretty much quit this game and apparently doesn't want to be a part of the lynch. It's just too much bullshit and I see no explanation for this. I think he should be our go-to-lynch today.
@phagga Why are you buddying me? Especially, you complain when marvellosity voted for Snarfs because he did so on bad reasonable, but I never ever put any reasonable at all and you didn't complain about that. prplhz, you never explained why you voted snarf, what was up with that? Also note how he was active at game start, but then gradually got less active, and has been lurking almost all of D2 (his last post is over 30 hours old). All this together make him suspicious for me, but it's not enough to lynch him today. I really look forward to hear some scum suspects from him including some reasoning why. Part of the quotes you linked include this snippet: Show nested quote +Yea I'm against Radfield/Ace/SamuelLJackson lynches too, lets stop even discussing them. Why would scum ever advocate against the lynching of strong town players? The only reason would be to buy town-cred, but there are ways to do that without specifically telling people not to lynch strong town players. This sentence screams town to me.
True. On the other side, a rad/ace/hydra lynch was unlikely anyway at this point, so it would have been an easy way to get towncred without preventing a mislynch.
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Nice shot snarfs.
I am on the road today, i hope to keep up from my mobile. I will write again in about 12 to 14 hours.
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Prplhz, stop dodging the questions and give us your scumreads!
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Family plans changed mid- WE, still on the road. On the comp in about 90 min.
Case one ace looks bad, will have to reread marv stuff. Where is prplhz?
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Family plans changed mid-WE, still on the road. On the comp in about 90 min.
Case one ace looks bad, will have to reread marv stuff. Where is prplhz?
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I'm here, just read the thread. I'll go over my notes and some filter and will be back in a few mins with more.
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yeah right, switch to a new lynch target 40 minutes before deadline.
I don't see s&b as a good lynch target, I'd rather not vote him.
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EPT
