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Guys. Guys. Guys.
Guys.
Risen claimed scum in thread.
There's no need for WIFOM about why he screws up the vote and ended Day 2 with us lynching a townie. The fact of the matter is he screws up the vote and ended Day 2 with us lynching a townie. That's the only thing that's important.
I believe that the scum chose to do this in order to protect their KP. Risen rolled GF, Ottoxlol rolled scum. It makes sense that they would sacrifice Risen in order to protect their KP for one more night.
Let's step back again away from all of the WIFOM and take a look at what happened yesterday again:
1) Town thinks Ottoxlol is scummy and moves to lynch him.
2) Town is ready to lynch Ottoxlol right up to the deadline.
3) Risen's vote stops us from lynching Ottoxlol.
There is no reason for a town Risen to do this. Period. Therefore, Risen must be scum.
The path ahead of us is clear. If you're a JK/Tracker, actions on Ottoxlol tonight. If you're a vig, shoot Risen tonight.
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Addendum: Vig shots don't kill GF. Shoot Ottoxlol.
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Risen: he is more likely a townie that made a mistake with his swap, I don't see why a scum would do anything like this
Brood: since it was a double town vote I doubt that a scum would wait for the last minute, its good for them anyway, why wait?
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@Ottoxlol: No. Risen is not townie due to the fact that he screwed up the vote last night by swapping around his vote. He is scum due to the fact that he scewed up his vote last night by swapping around his vote. His vote minutes before the deadline got a townie lynched. He is scum.
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On April 27 2012 03:57 ghost_403 wrote:
@Ottoxlol: No. Risen is not townie due to the fact that he screwed up the vote last night by swapping around his vote. He is scum due to the fact that he scewed up his vote last night by swapping around his vote. His vote minutes before the deadline got a townie lynched. He is scum.
you are working completely under the assumption that ottox is scum
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@ghost why would he sac himself for a townie as scum?
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 27 2012 03:52 ghost_403 wrote:
Guys. Guys. Guys.
Guys.
Risen claimed scum in thread.
There's no need for WIFOM about why he screws up the vote and ended Day 2 with us lynching a townie. The fact of the matter is he screws up the vote and ended Day 2 with us lynching a townie. That's the only thing that's important.
I believe that the scum chose to do this in order to protect their KP. Risen rolled GF, Ottoxlol rolled scum. It makes sense that they would sacrifice Risen in order to protect their KP for one more night.
Let's step back again away from all of the WIFOM and take a look at what happened yesterday again:
1) Town thinks Ottoxlol is scummy and moves to lynch him.
2) Town is ready to lynch Ottoxlol right up to the deadline.
3) Risen's vote stops us from lynching Ottoxlol.
There is no reason for a town Risen to do this. Period. Therefore, Risen must be scum.
The path ahead of us is clear. If you're a JK/Tracker, actions on Ottoxlol tonight. If you're a vig, shoot Risen tonight.
Yes, it's all been rather WIFOMy, was hoping to get it out the way all at once while people were online.
Your 1-3 points don't take into account that it was pretty close anyway. Plenty of town thought Zephirdd was scummy too.
Regarding the bolded part: I had not considered that at all. That's quite an important distinction in this setup.
The whole problem I have with all the reasoning from you or layabout is that scum could have made it so much easier on themselves by simply having someone vote for Zephirdd earlier on. I just don't get why they'd set themselves up for the potential situation that happened. It just doesn't make sense to me that scum would let it come down to the wire and then make a desperation move. Risen or someone else could have switched their vote way earlier and then all this discussion wouldn't be anywhere near happening like it is.
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On April 27 2012 03:53 ghost_403 wrote:
Addendum: Vig shots don't kill GF. Shoot Ottoxlol.
not kill = detective red check, so uh its ok to shoot risen too
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ghost, ive addressed that. i had the same thoughts as you initially but ithought it through and it was barely tied. i dont think scum could have arranged something like that. It's a townie mistake and it's likely he didn't think that the tie would keep the lynch on zeph after he switched back.
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On April 27 2012 04:10 johnnywup wrote:
ghost, ive addressed that. i had the same thoughts as you initially but ithought it through and it was barely tied. i dont think scum could have arranged something like that. It's a townie mistake and it's likely he didn't think that the tie would keep the lynch on zeph after he switched back.
You don't think that scum would deliberately change the lynch target at the last second?
Or you don't think that they would try to pass it off as a mistake?
scum have done in the past, most notably
+ Show Spoiler [here] +In my first game of mafia TL Mafia XLVIIThe scumteam commit a huge voteswitch at the end of the day to kill Palmer and BC. A voting update was posted during the switch and as a consequence of that bumatlarge who had been part of the switch accused hum teammates of claiming scum in the thread. Some of them then did claim scum in the thread.
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On April 27 2012 04:29 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:10 johnnywup wrote:
ghost, ive addressed that. i had the same thoughts as you initially but ithought it through and it was barely tied. i dont think scum could have arranged something like that. It's a townie mistake and it's likely he didn't think that the tie would keep the lynch on zeph after he switched back. You don't think that scum would deliberately change the lynch target at the last second? Or you don't think that they would try to pass it off as a mistake? scum have done in the past, most notably + Show Spoiler [here] +In my first game of mafia TL Mafia XLVIIThe scumteam commit a huge voteswitch at the end of the day to kill Palmer and BC. A voting update was posted during the switch and as a consequence of that bumatlarge who had been part of the switch accused hum teammates of claiming scum in the thread. Some of them then did claim scum in the thread.
this game was a travesty and should be never be used as an example of anything. Plus we did that to try and kill a mayor and sheriff that were both veterens
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 27 2012 04:29 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:10 johnnywup wrote:
ghost, ive addressed that. i had the same thoughts as you initially but ithought it through and it was barely tied. i dont think scum could have arranged something like that. It's a townie mistake and it's likely he didn't think that the tie would keep the lynch on zeph after he switched back. You don't think that scum would deliberately change the lynch target at the last second? Or you don't think that they would try to pass it off as a mistake? scum have done in the past, most notably + Show Spoiler [here] +In my first game of mafia TL Mafia XLVIIThe scumteam commit a huge voteswitch at the end of the day to kill Palmer and BC. A voting update was posted during the switch and as a consequence of that bumatlarge who had been part of the switch accused hum teammates of claiming scum in the thread. Some of them then did claim scum in the thread.
The point is that it's possible but what I have written is possible too. You would have to assume that scum blundered massively by not putting a vote on Zephirdd earlier and avoiding all this. You also have to assume Ottoxlol is scum, and you probably have to assume Ottoxlol is goon for Risen to have saved him like that.
That's a fair amount of assuming - much like you were uncomfortable making the opposite assumptions.
Now, if we are going to lynch Risen, we should be very sure about lynching him on the basis of his entire play this game, not just the moment of retardation/scummyness at voting close. Because if Risen is scum, then we get Ottoxlol for free.
So we'd better be bloody sure Risen is scum, because the benefits are so great and obviously town is in terrible shape if we mislynch. This means we have to lynch Risen not just on the basis of the vote swap, but his entire behaviour.
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@mattchew: Yes I am. That's because I think Ottoxlol is scum. I've made my position clear on that, and nothing has happened since then that would make me reconsider my position. In fact, the fact that we were so close to lynching him, and mislynched a townie instead makes me even more sure of that position. My position on Ottoxlol makes what happened last night make sense.
@Ottoxlol: Easy. You're not a townie.
@Marv: They didn't, which necessitated drastic measures. WIFOM warning: Perhaps they were preparing to let the town lynch Otto, and wanted to buy some townie credit through the exchange. Later on in the day, the Zeph movement picked up steam, allowing them the option of sacking Risen for Otto.
@johnny: There is a lot better chance of Risen arguing his way out of the lynch as "I'm a stupid townie" than "I voted in such a way that a townie was lynched". Makes sense to me. Also, you're ignoring the fact that there's no reason for a townie to do something so foolish as to switch his vote back after his vote caused a lynch. That's something scum would do.
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ghost you may want to do some redirecting:
JK's stay the hell away from ottox, if you want to block a goon go for BK (or maybe MG) instead.
Vig's shoot the crap out of ottox. When he flips red we will be in a great position. On the outside chance that he flips green then we will know we are on the wrong track.
Trackers on Risen or BK or MG.
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On April 27 2012 04:34 ghost_403 wrote:
@mattchew: Yes I am. That's because I think Ottoxlol is scum. I've made my position clear on that, and nothing has happened since then that would make me reconsider my position. In fact, the fact that we were so close to lynching him, and mislynched a townie instead makes me even more sure of that position. My position on Ottoxlol makes what happened last night make sense.
@Ottoxlol: Easy. You're not a townie.
@Marv: They didn't, which necessitated drastic measures. WIFOM warning: Perhaps they were preparing to let the town lynch Otto, and wanted to buy some townie credit through the exchange. Later on in the day, the Zeph movement picked up steam, allowing them the option of sacking Risen for Otto.
@johnny: There is a lot better chance of Risen arguing his way out of the lynch as "I'm a stupid townie" than "I voted in such a way that a townie was lynched". Makes sense to me. Also, you're ignoring the fact that there's no reason for a townie to do something so foolish as to switch his vote back after his vote caused a lynch. That's something scum would do.
well then that makes sense. Lets hope ottox is shot, and if not we flip him and get 1 or 2 other scum ez mode when he flips red
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a couple games i would have done the same thing. i dont think he was thinking about what he was doing. all im saying is that we shouldnt use that as evidence of him being scum, look elsewhere. he may still be scum
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On April 27 2012 04:35 layabout wrote:
ghost you may want to do some redirecting:
JK's stay the hell away from ottox, if you want to block a goon go for BK (or maybe MG) instead.
Vig's shoot the crap out of ottox. When he flips red we will be in a great position. On the outside chance that he flips green then we will know we are on the wrong track.
Trackers on Risen or BK or MG.
If I am scum, BK is town. If he were scum he would have voted before mat and laya so I wouldve lived without Risens help.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 27 2012 04:51 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 04:35 layabout wrote:
ghost you may want to do some redirecting:
JK's stay the hell away from ottox, if you want to block a goon go for BK (or maybe MG) instead.
Vig's shoot the crap out of ottox. When he flips red we will be in a great position. On the outside chance that he flips green then we will know we are on the wrong track.
Trackers on Risen or BK or MG. If I am scum, BK is town. If he were scum he would have voted before mat and laya so I wouldve lived without Risens help.
Why would you even comment or speculate on this if you're town?!
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I pointed out that is a mistake in his argument. I think BK is town. If JK/Tracker thinks I am scum, pointing out the uselessness of tracking or jailing BK is good.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 27 2012 05:10 Ottoxlol wrote:
I pointed out that is a mistake in his argument. I think BK is town. If JK/Tracker thinks I am scum, pointing out the uselessness of tracking or jailing BK is good.
The mistake in his argument if you're town is that you're town.
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EPT
