Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account. 11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM.[/spoiler] Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Other Rules
I tried to mark all things that are specific to my game in bold blue
Posting:
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Questions All questions should be PMd to the moderator. You are not allowed to say in thread you’re going to ask the moderator something, and you are not allowed to share your answer with the thread. If the question is a clarification all town needs to know, I will simply post an announcement in the thread.
Do not ask questions in the thread once the game has started (you can do it during sign-ups).
Activity: There are no activity requirements. Take notice that Voting is however mandatory.
Smurfs: Smurfs and Hydras are not allowed this game.
Spam: Strategical spam within reason is fine. Don’t be an idiot with it.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a modkill. Quite simple. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
Threatening to ask to be replaced or even simply announcing it is a modkillable offense. Just PM the mod
You have been warned.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes here. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. This game uses instant majority voting. As soon as someone is hammered they're dead. Please be respectful and stop talking immediately even if a host is not around to flip you. Just say GG and wait for the flip 6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain. If a no Lynch is reached, everyone must still have casted a vote (you can vote for ##Vote: No-Lynch)
Signups:
This game is open to anyone.
Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements This game does not use replacements. Please sign up only if you intend to actually play the game through. In extraordinary situations (things can always come up). PM me as soon as you know you have to bail, and I will see if I can make an exception
Clues: There are no clues.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 48 hour day cycle. Once night hits, scum and power roles must submit their actions asap. If they have not been submitted 12 hours after the deadline (that's 10:00 GMT (+00:00) I will RNG their action. . In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 22:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Votes will be accepted up to and including the posted time, but not after.
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
I decided to allow the doctor to act night 0. If he gets a hero save town has a mislynch available making the game much harder for scum, but I think the tiny chance of that happening is worth not giving mafia completely free reign during night 0. The rules have been updated to reflect this.
Role PMs go out sometime today. Game starts 22:00 GMT (+00:00) That's about 11 hours from the time of this post. Game starts night 0, and night 0 ends as soon as I get all night actions or at latest 10:00 GMT (+00:00) tomorrow morning.
5. This game uses instant majority voting. As soon as someone is hammered they're dead. Please be respectful and stop talking immediately even if a host is not around to flip you. Just say GG and wait for the flip 6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain. If a no Lynch is reached, everyone must still have casted a vote (you can vote for ##Vote: No-Lynch)
to clarify. The day ends as soon as everyone has casted their votes, be it towards no-lynch or another player. You CAN unvote.
No Majority/No-Lynch Majority both end in no-lynch.
On April 13 2012 22:19 Palmar wrote: new rule added: instant majority:
5. This game uses instant majority voting. As soon as someone is hammered they're dead. Please be respectful and stop talking immediately even if a host is not around to flip you. Just say GG and wait for the flip 6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain. If a no Lynch is reached, everyone must still have casted a vote (you can vote for ##Vote: No-Lynch)
to clarify. The day ends as soon as everyone has casted their votes, be it towards no-lynch or another player. You CAN unvote.
No Majority/No-Lynch Majority both end in no-lynch.
GUYS...... We have to beat Purgatory Mafia's record with a faster day phase than 20 minutes.
On April 13 2012 22:19 Palmar wrote: new rule added: instant majority:
5. This game uses instant majority voting. As soon as someone is hammered they're dead. Please be respectful and stop talking immediately even if a host is not around to flip you. Just say GG and wait for the flip 6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain. If a no Lynch is reached, everyone must still have casted a vote (you can vote for ##Vote: No-Lynch)
to clarify. The day ends as soon as everyone has casted their votes, be it towards no-lynch or another player. You CAN unvote.
No Majority/No-Lynch Majority both end in no-lynch.
GUYS...... We have to beat Purgatory Mafia's record with a faster day phase than 20 minutes.
On April 13 2012 22:19 Palmar wrote: new rule added: instant majority:
5. This game uses instant majority voting. As soon as someone is hammered they're dead. Please be respectful and stop talking immediately even if a host is not around to flip you. Just say GG and wait for the flip 6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain. If a no Lynch is reached, everyone must still have casted a vote (you can vote for ##Vote: No-Lynch)
to clarify. The day ends as soon as everyone has casted their votes, be it towards no-lynch or another player. You CAN unvote.
No Majority/No-Lynch Majority both end in no-lynch.
GUYS...... We have to beat Purgatory Mafia's record with a faster day phase than 20 minutes.
On April 13 2012 22:19 Palmar wrote: new rule added: instant majority:
5. This game uses instant majority voting. As soon as someone is hammered they're dead. Please be respectful and stop talking immediately even if a host is not around to flip you. Just say GG and wait for the flip 6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain. If a no Lynch is reached, everyone must still have casted a vote (you can vote for ##Vote: No-Lynch)
to clarify. The day ends as soon as everyone has casted their votes, be it towards no-lynch or another player. You CAN unvote.
No Majority/No-Lynch Majority both end in no-lynch.
GUYS...... We have to beat Purgatory Mafia's record with a faster day phase than 20 minutes.
Purgatory was 8 minutes between day and night posts, and we reached a majority lynch in that time. Don't sell us short with that 20 minute bullshit Bluelightz.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
If the cop claims there will be a counter-claim. Make no mistake about that. That means the medic DOES NOT have to protect one of the cops, because mafia cannot shoot the real cop, as it would expose their counter-claiming member.
There will certainly be no confirmed town. Any medic claim will likely be counter-claimed as well, which again puts us at 50-50, instead of 60-40.
I'm rushing here and can't quite get my thoughts straight on paper, but there is an optimal play in here somewhere.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
Well, you might be right that a N0 claim is better than a D1 claim. I'm just not sure yet.
Lets assume our cop claims right off the bat, one of two things will happen. Mafia will either counter-claim, or will leave it be.
N0 Cop Claim + Counter Claim: both survive the night, we have to lynch one of them on Day 1. Cop is unkillable because that would leave us a free mafia. Medic is free to protect anyone, giving him a 1 in 4 chance of protection instead of a 1 in 6.
N0 Cop Claim + No Counter Claim: Medic is forced to protect Cop. Cop has a 1 in 6 chance of finding scum. Assuming he does not find scum, we have 2 confirmed town, 2 scum, 1 doc and 1 townie. 50-50. If we have the Doctor claim, mafia is forced to cc or give us 2/3 chance of hitting scum. A doctor counter claim gives us a 50-50 again. No chance of a medic save in this scenario though.
Assuming no claim, that leaves doc free to protect whomever they want. Cop has a chance of getting shot. Day 1 cop claims his results, and we have the whole scenario over again, either counter claim or no counter claim.
I think cop claiming right now is superior in every way. Thoughts? Agree or Disagree?
On April 14 2012 09:29 Radfield wrote: N0 Cop Claim + Counter Claim: both survive the night, we have to lynch one of them on Day 1. Cop is unkillable because that would leave us a free mafia. Medic is free to protect anyone, giving him a 1 in 4 chance of protection instead of a 1 in 6.
Actually, Mafia might shoot the cop in this scenario, as it's a guaranteed kill. It exposes the counter claiming mafia, but that is not terrible I suppose as it's still lylo the following day.
At any rate the Doctor would get another shot at a save N1, only with increased odds. So I suppose the Cop is safe.
I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Is that a counter claim for real? Tunkeg vs Blazinghand?
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
On April 14 2012 09:37 Radfield wrote: If so it means the medic is free to pick from the remaining players as both Tunkeg and Blazinghand will surely survive the night.
This is true. Scum won't shoot a claimed cop since their counterclaiming scum will get lynched the next day.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
I don't care what you think We get the one for one trade on you and me, so no problem. I allready sent my night check in on you though BH, so it was a good move to claim cop, cause I would have figured you out by tomorrow. Now I change my check
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
I don't care what you think We get the one for one trade on you and me, so no problem. I allready sent my night check in on you though BH, so it was a good move to claim cop, cause I would have figured you out by tomorrow. Now I change my check
There is no one for one trade. There is either a successful lynch and we keep player, or a mislynch and we lose.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
I don't care what you think We get the one for one trade on you and me, so no problem. I allready sent my night check in on you though BH, so it was a good move to claim cop, cause I would have figured you out by tomorrow. Now I change my check
All I need to do is find your scumbuddy and town wins this ez. I think I know what's going to happen here though: You're gonna claim you checked the guy who you're shooting N0. He'll wind up dead and you won't "give" any info to town, and if the medic saves him, you're just corroborating an already-confirmed town info.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
I don't care what you think We get the one for one trade on you and me, so no problem. I allready sent my night check in on you though BH, so it was a good move to claim cop, cause I would have figured you out by tomorrow. Now I change my check
All I need to do is find your scumbuddy and town wins this ez. I think I know what's going to happen here though: You're gonna claim you checked the guy who you're shooting N0. He'll wind up dead and you won't "give" any info to town, and if the medic saves him, you're just corroborating an already-confirmed town info.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
I don't care what you think We get the one for one trade on you and me, so no problem. I allready sent my night check in on you though BH, so it was a good move to claim cop, cause I would have figured you out by tomorrow. Now I change my check
All I need to do is find your scumbuddy and town wins this ez. I think I know what's going to happen here though: You're gonna claim you checked the guy who you're shooting N0. He'll wind up dead and you won't "give" any info to town, and if the medic saves him, you're just corroborating an already-confirmed town info.
Yeah, the best part of this is that the scummy has a chance of fucking up the results in the morning.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
I don't care what you think We get the one for one trade on you and me, so no problem. I allready sent my night check in on you though BH, so it was a good move to claim cop, cause I would have figured you out by tomorrow. Now I change my check
All I need to do is find your scumbuddy and town wins this ez. I think I know what's going to happen here though: You're gonna claim you checked the guy who you're shooting N0. He'll wind up dead and you won't "give" any info to town, and if the medic saves him, you're just corroborating an already-confirmed town info.
Yeah, the best part of this is that the scummy has a chance of fucking up the results in the morning.
I just wanted to make sure that tunkeg would look like dick if he used this "strategy" n0. He's going to try to give the least useful check possible.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield.
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
And BH if by any chance you guys shoot my N0 check I will tip my hat to you, because then you have won the game by leveling me on the who to chose for check part.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it.
I'm not sure I fully understand these two sentences. You wouldn't suggest an n0 cop claim as scum... but if you are not to claim, you will... pretend to be a VT, then leave the thread? Isn't that what you did?
On April 14 2012 09:51 Tunkeg wrote: Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it.
I'm not sure I fully understand these two sentences. You wouldn't suggest an n0 cop claim as scum... but if you are not to claim, you will... pretend to be a VT, then leave the thread? Isn't that what you did?
On April 14 2012 09:51 Tunkeg wrote: Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
I'm honored <3
As a scum I wouldn't have posted what I did in my opening posts, thats all I am saying. I would advocate all the cons, but none of the pros if anyone were to bring it up. You guys can't know this for sure, but I am just saying.
When no one started discussing it as soon as the game was up, I was thinking town will never agree upon a cop claim before I got to go to bed anyway. The best way for me is to just "leave" the thread and wait for a bit before I post my nightaction, so that not me leaving happends and then nightpost happends straight after. That would lead scum to understand I was scum, and town not to know.
I will honor you even more if you manage to pull of a win on this BH, then I will tip my hat to you
I will leave you guys for now then. It is getting way late here now, and either scum kills me tonight and you have a confirmed scum in BH or we can continue discussing tomorrow after the flips.
Best start to a mafiagame ever (that I've been in).
Good night, and good luck. Leaving for reals this time.
On April 14 2012 10:20 johnnywup wrote: EBWOP: That's enough to make me confident you're scum. Scum.
##vote Tunkeg
That is some poor poor scumhunting, and an even poorer reason for a vote.
NOT TO MENTION WE WILL LIKELY BE AT LYLO TOMORROW, SO DROPPING YOUR VOTE FOR SOME BUNK REASON IS OUTRAGEOUS. /yelling
No one votes tomorrow, and I do mean no one(I suppose BH and Tunkeg can vote for each other). Feel free to talk about who you WILL vote, but don't actually place the vote. A quick hammer is extremely bad for us.
On April 14 2012 10:01 Bluelightz wrote: I dont fucking have an idea on what to say but my logic says this
Tunkeg scum => Radfield Tunkeg scum team
BH scum => BH & ??? Scum team.
How am I linked to Tunkeg? Because I am 56% sure that Blazinghand is scum? If you want the truth I'm creeping up near 60% at the moment, but I still haven't done an actual reread.
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
On April 14 2012 10:20 johnnywup wrote: EBWOP: That's enough to make me confident you're scum. Scum.
##vote Tunkeg
._.
1) n0 2)
5. This game uses instant majority voting. As soon as someone is hammered they're dead. Please be respectful and stop talking immediately even if a host is not around to flip you. Just say GG and wait for the flip
Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why.
Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about the cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early.
I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive.
There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.
On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence.
Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post.
Second is the contradiction between this:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts.
Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre.
From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.
Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen.
Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying:
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly.
Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town).
Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive.
I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!).
Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because....
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb.
I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum.
I'm playing DoTA and also I find it pointless to do anything for now. I read the roleclaims and I just started reading your post. If I feel like it I might consider putting in my thoughts.
Okay. Good morning =) (And sorry for drunk posting. Wasn't as bad as other players though )
What I learned from DF2 was keep it simple. What that means here is to resolve the BH/Tunkeg thingy. While Radfields case is making sense I'll try to make my own case and own conclusions.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg first post is solid. It makes sense. But why does he assume the Medic should be on the cop? He was expecting a counterclaim which means the Medic have to choose between the 2 cop claims on who to protect. From a scum perspective it would be fine since they get 25% chance to hit the medic out of the last remaining townies. A medic save besicly wins the game for us. But I get a town feeling from this. It just stood out to me.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
If BH is cop. Why didn't he just claim right here? He already seemed convinced that it was the best choice. (Bolded) He also doesn't mention counter claiming at all. Scenario B will never happen since scum are forced to counter claim. I find it weird that being a cop you would not think about a possible counterclaim. BH also auto assumes that medic will protect the cop - maybe because he didn't think about counter claims at all.
Radfield post his super logic about claim or not to claim and BH instantly claims Cop. It lines up with him having already made up his mind.
On April 14 2012 09:33 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not calling my check beforehand since mafia will just kill who I'm checking. I'll announce my result as soon as D1 starts.
This makes me think BH thought about what being a cop would mean but since it very basic anyone could have brought it up.
Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town.
Tunkeg and BH goes at eachother. Most post are entirely useless to us. But some stands out:
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
But BH didn't discuss it? His first post he was already dead set on that the Cop should claim and he instant claimed after Radfields post (where Radfield himself was asking for discussion and not just stating: "Do this!")
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield.
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic.
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
I would, if I were cop, go back and read the OP very carefully to fully understand my role. It's weird that Tunkeg assumed he was a role cop. His PM doesn't say and as far as I'm aware alignment cops are the norm? This can be a misunderstanding but it could be a "slip". I don't think we should put much focus on this since we won't know which it is.
To conclude something. Both have done things that I find scummy or "weird-if-town". The biggest point for me is that Tunkeg stayed up. Radfield naiiled when he said that scum is always looking for a reason to NOT be active. Sleeping is the best and most valid reason. I went to bed and I live in the same timezone as Tunkeg. Why wouldn't he do it? Because he know the game revolved around the cop and he was the cop so he HAD to stay up to make a difference. A big scumtell on BH is how he, in his first post, was dead set on claiming. But didn't. Then when Radfield made logic work he claimed. Later he claimed his mindset was to "wait and discuss". His words and actions just didn't add up.
I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote.
Good morning all. You are probably right about me just beeing able to see alignement. Roledescription just say you are a Cop, I thought this meant I get a role back, I can see how that may sound scummy if in fact I don't.
Also the key to reading our claims as both Radfield and Dirkzor have pointed out before me is how the claim is made.
I make a post willing to discuss it before considering to claim (Post game note: I think a cop never should claim without the support of the town first in this kind of setup).
I sort of give up claiming n0 because of not everyone beeing able to chip in and I "leave" the thread. I counterclaim once there is a claim.
This way of playing do not indicate a townclaim or scumclaim. I would say if I as a scum were to post my first post (which I have stated before I wouldn't) I would probably follow it up in the same manner I did. What I think is to be focused on is BH's claim:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
Saying Cop should claim period. If he was cop he should be his own logic just claim straight from the get go. But he doesn't meaning he wants to discuss it. If he wants to discuss it he should wait for more players to chip in but he doesn't, he doesn't even follow Radfields advice to wait before claiming:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
He then proceeds to say his logic is to DISCUSS whether or not he should cop claim, when in fact such discussion never happened:
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
I think this should tell you that his claim is the false one, and that it is damn sure more likely for scum to do a claim this way then a townie to do it this way.
I am biased though because I know the truth here, so do BH and his scumbuddy, but I think this is the greatest indicator of who is scum and who is not.
"Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. ".
The reason for me saying I am going to bed was that I wouldn't send in my nightactions and then go to bed, only to see that straight after I go to bed the nightpost goes up. Pretty much revealing to the scum that I had a nightaction. I did not stick around to counterclaim, I stuck around because I wasn't going to bed yet, but wanted to avoid what I wrote above.
You also say:
Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic.
I think scum wouldn't want to bring attention to a cop claim from the get go, but thats my opinion, and it is impossible for you to see whether I reallly mean it or if it is some scumtactics trying to portray my first posts as only something a townie would do. When it is allready out there well then it is just a matter of what the scumteam prefer, do they support a copclaim (which then will lead to a CC) or do they try to shut it down. I would go for the latter.
Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
"Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. ".
The reason for me saying I am going to bed was that I wouldn't send in my nightactions and then go to bed, only to see that straight after I go to bed the nightpost goes up. Pretty much revealing to the scum that I had a nightaction. I did not stick around to counterclaim, I stuck around because I wasn't going to bed yet, but wanted to avoid what I wrote above.
Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic.
I think scum wouldn't want to bring attention to a cop claim from the get go, but thats my opinion, and it is impossible for you to see whether I reallly mean it or if it is some scumtactics trying to portray my first posts as only something a townie would do. When it is allready out there well then it is just a matter of what the scumteam prefer, do they support a copclaim (which then will lead to a CC) or do they try to shut it down. I would go for the latter.
I just don't understand why you'd have to lie about going to bed. Wouldn't it have been easier to just stop posting? It seemed you wanted to lure a reaction but at the same time you later wrote that you didn't think scum would claim cop so it just doesn't add up.
The cop claim is already on the spotlight due the nature of the setup and the name. There is no avoiding a cop claim at some point during this game. All we had to figure out was when it was the best time to claim. So I don't agree with you here at all. With your logic anyone who talked about the cop claim and tried to figure out how it worked best/worst for us is town? Or am I mistaken here? Or is it only because you were the first one to bring it up that you are town?
"Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. ".
The reason for me saying I am going to bed was that I wouldn't send in my nightactions and then go to bed, only to see that straight after I go to bed the nightpost goes up. Pretty much revealing to the scum that I had a nightaction. I did not stick around to counterclaim, I stuck around because I wasn't going to bed yet, but wanted to avoid what I wrote above.
You also say:
Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic.
I think scum wouldn't want to bring attention to a cop claim from the get go, but thats my opinion, and it is impossible for you to see whether I reallly mean it or if it is some scumtactics trying to portray my first posts as only something a townie would do. When it is allready out there well then it is just a matter of what the scumteam prefer, do they support a copclaim (which then will lead to a CC) or do they try to shut it down. I would go for the latter.
I just don't understand why you'd have to lie about going to bed. Wouldn't it have been easier to just stop posting? It seemed you wanted to lure a reaction but at the same time you later wrote that you didn't think scum would claim cop so it just doesn't add up.
The cop claim is already on the spotlight due the nature of the setup and the name. There is no avoiding a cop claim at some point during this game. All we had to figure out was when it was the best time to claim. So I don't agree with you here at all. With your logic anyone who talked about the cop claim and tried to figure out how it worked best/worst for us is town? Or am I mistaken here? Or is it only because you were the first one to bring it up that you are town?
As I brought up the subject of the cop claim I think it is only fair to say when you leave. Starting a discussion and then just not answering isn't right in my book. Reason for not going to bed straight away was that I wanted to put some distance between the sending in of my n0 action, and my departure from the thread, just to not make it obv to scum that I got nightactions. If BH had waited lets say 20 more minutes before he claimed I wouldn't have been around. Were closing up a Dota2 and were waiting to respawn when I refreshed the thread and saw the claim. I was by no means sticking around for the counterclaim (but more so for a possible nightpost and a pm with my check, after I sent in my nightactions).
I agree that a copclaim have to come eventually in this setup. But my logic is that it would be better for scum not to have it happening on n0. My logic is (although I am biased as hell in this) that scum would not be the one who bring this up early in n0, when first brought up they can swing whatever way (for or against), but I would definately not bring any attention to it if it weren't previously mentioned.
Now I don't think BH thought I was the cop, and that this caught him offguard. This is also why I think his post after my counterclaim is abit inconsistent with his actual claim (saying he wanted to discuss it before doing it and so). His claim would have been way stronger if someone who had not previously talked about it was the cop. In fact if they had a single suspicion about me being cop he would just not do it, and just kill me as I would never had gotten a doc protection n0 in this lineup.
I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this:
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen?
Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do
On April 14 2012 18:34 Dirkzor wrote: If you think it was bad for scum that the cop claimed n0 why didn't you claim? Why wait?
Because I wanted the towns input on this. In a game like this I think not just the cop should decide when to claim. There is both pros and cons, I clearly thinking more pros than cons. But again my decision alone shouldn't decide whether I claim or not.
The faster you claim the harder it is for scum to CC IMO. It's not much usually but it's something (e.g. scum would have to choose which player CCs and stuff)
On April 14 2012 18:40 wherebugsgo wrote: there is no reason not to claim as cop.
The faster you claim the harder it is for scum to CC IMO. It's not much usually but it's something (e.g. scum would have to choose which player CCs and stuff)
Well, I don't have the experience nor confidence to take that decision straight from the get go. I don't want to fuck up the game by doing something not thought through. Hopefully post game discussion can give a clear guideline to what is optimal play though.
Also what is the best way for me to proceed here? Is it to stay in thread and responding to everything (might spam up the thread), or to step back and let you guys who aren't biased discuss it among yourself?
Don't want these two posts to get burried as they are good posts on what happened with the claim and the counter claim:
On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is?
Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum.
Only me that finds this suspicious?
I mean asking this after we have confirmed BH as scum is the next logical step towards winning this, but asking before the flip?! Just doesn't seem very townie-like to do...
let's use some time to discuss, but not much. We don't want to give scum an idea of who it's okay to shoot.
But yes, I'd like to kill blazinghand and then look for the last scum on d2. The reasoning for that is because one of the townies will die (most likely) unless the medic pulls off a save. That reduces our possible targets by 1.
On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is?
Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum.
Only me that finds this suspicious?
I mean asking this after we have confirmed BH as scum is the next logical step towards winning this, but asking before the flip?! Just doesn't seem very townie-like to do...
I asked it because I wanted an answer from bluelightz. Nothing more, nothing less.
On April 14 2012 19:34 wherebugsgo wrote: let's use some time to discuss, but not much. We don't want to give scum an idea of who it's okay to shoot.
But yes, I'd like to kill blazinghand and then look for the last scum on d2. The reasoning for that is because one of the townies will die (most likely) unless the medic pulls off a save. That reduces our possible targets by 1.
On April 14 2012 19:34 wherebugsgo wrote: let's use some time to discuss, but not much. We don't want to give scum an idea of who it's okay to shoot.
But yes, I'd like to kill blazinghand and then look for the last scum on d2. The reasoning for that is because one of the townies will die (most likely) unless the medic pulls off a save. That reduces our possible targets by 1.
On April 14 2012 19:34 wherebugsgo wrote: let's use some time to discuss, but not much. We don't want to give scum an idea of who it's okay to shoot.
But yes, I'd like to kill blazinghand and then look for the last scum on d2. The reasoning for that is because one of the townies will die (most likely) unless the medic pulls off a save. That reduces our possible targets by 1.
On April 14 2012 19:37 wherebugsgo wrote: also how the fuck would voting BH give me towncred? Everyone will ultimately vote BH today.
It doesn't in itself. Everyone will vote him. Just combined with the fact that you had already move on from the BH/tunkeg situation before the lynch makes it suspicious. But you're right the voting thing probably doesn't mean much. The other part is still odd to me.
On April 14 2012 19:37 wherebugsgo wrote: also how the fuck would voting BH give me towncred? Everyone will ultimately vote BH today.
It doesn't in itself. Everyone will vote him. Just combined with the fact that you had already move on from the BH/tunkeg situation before the lynch makes it suspicious. But you're right the voting thing probably doesn't mean much. The other part is still odd to me.
I had already come to a conclusion, that's fairly obvious. I even answered myself. It was pretty simple; Tunkeg wouldn't make such a shitty claim if he was scum. That made him town and BH scum.
Bluelightz is one of the candidates for the last scum, and as you've probably noticed he still hasn't answered the question I posed to him.
Not that I expected much though, bluelightz is generally completely and utterly worthless.
On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you depending who dies tonight.
So what you're saying is that Dirkzor is probably Town?
Yes.
Care to elaborate on why?
My mind tells me that dirk being drunk is a sign of being town because i don't think scum would've kinda did that IMO, aside that he has been giving his opinion on stuff like BH\tunkeg thing
On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you depending who dies tonight.
So what you're saying is that Dirkzor is probably Town?
Yes.
Care to elaborate on why?
My mind tells me that dirk being drunk is a sign of being town because i don't think scum would've kinda did that IMO, aside that he has been giving his opinion on stuff like BH\tunkeg thing
and what do you think of me. I'll admit that I haven't posted drunk yet, so there's one strike against me.
On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why.
Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about the cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early.
I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive.
There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.
On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence.
Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts.
Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre.
From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.
Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen.
Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying:
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly.
Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town).
Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive.
I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!).
Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because....
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb.
I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum.
You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing.
Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate:
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
and posts like this fairly scummy:
On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this:
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen?
Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do
Also, let me reiterate. KIlling Tunkeg is actually a BAD move, unless the mafia cop-candidate is already in a bad position relative to the real cop. If you still have 50/50 than it makes sense to leave the cop and fight it out, because the medic has a good chance at a hero save N1.
On April 14 2012 20:04 wherebugsgo wrote: man if only johnny were here
sucks the time zones are so far apart
I'm less interested in Johnny and more in Dirkzor. What are your thoughts Dirkzor?
On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why.
Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about th cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early.
I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive.
There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.
On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence.
Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts.
Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre.
From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.
Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen.
Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying:
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly.
Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town).
Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive.
I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!).
Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because....
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb.
I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum.
You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing.
Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate:
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this:
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen?
Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do
Your saying bugs is scum? Also, let's drop this... I'm gonna regret this if our scum but I think your town now, well you convinced me.....
I say it like it is! In RL that tends toward me being "brutally honest" with people. Although in mafia I exaggerate it because it's a good way (IMO) to make people react genuinely.
On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why.
Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about the cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early.
I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive.
There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.
On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence.
Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts.
Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre.
From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.
Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen.
Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying:
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly.
Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town).
Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive.
I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!).
Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because....
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb.
I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum.
You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing.
Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate:
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this:
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen?
Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do
I disagree, obviously because I am town, but also because I had come to the conclusion that BH was scum and I was looking for the second scum. I was trying to jump the gun.
Dirkzor was correct to point out that I had assumed BH was scum and I was trying to move on early. It doesn't exonerate Dirkzor, since some of his wording was questionable, but I think between the remaining four players you and dirkzor would rank above johnny and bluelightz.
Right now bluelightz is acting incredibly strangely and not responding to the questions we're asking in a way I'd expect a townie to respond. It's really weird that he got prickly to my question of "are you scum" and he actually called himself useless. I'd expect that if he were actually town to take offense to that and at the very least try to prove he's not useless.
On April 14 2012 20:12 Blazinghand wrote: What Rad doesn't understand is that *I*, Blazinghand, and town by elination.
##vote: Palmnar
On April 14 2012 20:12 Blazinghand wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Palmar
EBWOP: I meant to vote for myself in these posts, rather than "Palmnar" or "Palmar", neither of whom are in the game. Please make note, I'm trying to help town lynch Blazinghand.
On April 14 2012 20:13 Radfield wrote: Also, let me reiterate. KIlling Tunkeg is actually a BAD move, unless the mafia cop-candidate is already in a bad position relative to the real cop. If you still have 50/50 than it makes sense to leave the cop and fight it out, because the medic has a good chance at a hero save N1.
On April 14 2012 18:28 Tunkeg wrote: I love you, BH. I truly do.
Thanks man, I love you too.
This is the poster for a movie I'm self-publishing about us.
Tunkeg x Blazinghand: Bro Love
Act I
Scene III
JAKARTA- Mall Exterior. Overhead shot of Tunkeg and Blazinghand walking along the sidewalk. Blazinghand is talking animatedly with Tunkeg. Tunkeg is holding his cell phone.
Camera pans over to PALMAR, who pushes his way through the crowd, following the two sexy mafia lovers. Cut to shot of left hand in pocket. Cut to shot of PALMAR's face-- a dark grimace, with teeth clenched.
Fade to wide shot: the busy subway stop. 2 rail lines pass through the center of this station, with platforms on either side. Large electronic billboards on either wall.
Tunkeg and Blazinghand are standing close to the rails, talking animatedly. PALMAR comes down the stairs and spots them.
Close-up of PALMAR pushing through the crowd. A woman's voice intones that the train has arrived, first in Indonesian, then in English.
Split-screen shot of PALMAR breaking through the crowd as Tunkeg and Blazinghand enter the train and sit. PALMAR slips through the safety barrier just before it closes, entering two traincars behind.
Cut to JAKARTA EXTERIOR -- wide shot Tunkeg and Blazinghand exiting train, with PALMAR following them. Pan to Tunkeg.
Tunkeg I dunno, I think I should call her now, while she's still thinking about it.
Blazinghand Trust me, younger lover-- if you do that she won't want to talk to you.
Tunkeg She gave me her number!
Blazinghand Look, it's only going to annoy her if you call her now. Let her think about you a little. You can't seem desperate, or she won't want to talk to you.
Tunkeg I know that, but-- oh, here's a shortcut. We don't want to go around the block.
The lovers turn down a narrow alley that cuts through the city block. PALMAR turns the corner behind them, a dark figure silhouetted against the bright surroundings of the city street behind them.
As they walk down the alley, Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone from his outstretched hand.
Blazinghand You're not allowed to use this for the rest of the day, you're probably texting her right now!
Tunkeg, laughing Hey! Give that back!
They struggle with the phone, and finally Tunkeg wrests it free. He looks up and sees PALMAR approaching.
Tunkeg What-
Close-up as PALMAR leaps forward, elbowing Tunkeg in the gut. Tunkeg doubles over, coughing. PALMAR follows it up by grabbing Tunkeg's head and kneeing it. Tunkeg grunts and falls to the ground. His cell phone clatters to the ground.
Ground-level close-up of cell phone screen. TO: 555-8364 MSG: I'm glad you enjoyed it, too. How does Saturday sound?
The phone cracks under PALMAR's shoe as he steps back.
Pan up to PALMAR blocking a punch from Blazinghand. The older man's finely-tuned physique is an awe-inspiring sight in hand-to-hand combat.
Blazinghand steps forward as PALMAR recovers, grabs him by the torso and takes him to the mat, pinning him easily.
Blazinghand What's the meaning of this?
PALMAR, gasping You violated the agreement, and you will be punished like anyone else. Nobody is above it, not even one of you. You know what happened with Bill Murray.
Blazinghand You can't come against me. Not you, not the president, not ANYONE. I'm the greatest brood war player alive, and the council exists only by my hand! So I make it, so I can unmake it.
PALMAR, smirking There will be more after me. The others aren't like you-- they have no limits. They'll break your shoulder, your hand if they have to. More will come. Nobody is above the rules, not even you.
Blazinghand, snarling I wrote those rules. If more of you will come, then let them come. Tell your chairman that this is a warning: next council meeting I'm retaking the chairmanship, there's nothing he can do to stop me.
Blazinghand lifts PALMAR and dumps him into the trash can, headfirst. He closes the lid.
Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone and grabs Tunkeg, lifting him over his shoulders. Sweat trickles down Blazinghand's firm, supple muscles as he carries his groggy teammate out of the alley.
Blazinghand reaches the other end of the alley. Tunkeg stirs, and Blazinghand sets him on his feet. Blazinghand's face shows deep concern for his teammate,
Blazinghand, whispering to the semiconscious Tunkeg You're bleeding... we've got to get you cleaned up and fully-awake before D3 or you're gonna lose all your cases. Come on, man, hang in there...
Wide shot-- with Tunkeg's arm around his shoulders, Blazinghand presses on into the bright JAKARTA day. The silhouettes fade into the sunlit background. Fade to white.
lol I have no more patience for this I'm going to bed hahaha
dude if you're actually town you realize it's nearly impossible to understand what you're thinking, right? None of what you say makes a shred of sense.
On April 14 2012 20:32 wherebugsgo wrote: lol I have no more patience for this I'm going to bed hahaha
dude if you're actually town you realize it's nearly impossible to understand what you're thinking, right? None of what you say makes a shred of sense.
Before you go, could you take a look at my manuscript
On April 14 2012 18:28 Tunkeg wrote: I love you, BH. I truly do.
Thanks man, I love you too.
This is the poster for a movie I'm self-publishing about us.
Tunkeg x Blazinghand: Bro Love
Act I
Scene III
JAKARTA- Mall Exterior. Overhead shot of Tunkeg and Blazinghand walking along the sidewalk. Blazinghand is talking animatedly with Tunkeg. Tunkeg is holding his cell phone.
Camera pans over to PALMAR, who pushes his way through the crowd, following the two sexy mafia lovers. Cut to shot of left hand in pocket. Cut to shot of PALMAR's face-- a dark grimace, with teeth clenched.
Fade to wide shot: the busy subway stop. 2 rail lines pass through the center of this station, with platforms on either side. Large electronic billboards on either wall.
Tunkeg and Blazinghand are standing close to the rails, talking animatedly. PALMAR comes down the stairs and spots them.
Close-up of PALMAR pushing through the crowd. A woman's voice intones that the train has arrived, first in Indonesian, then in English.
Split-screen shot of PALMAR breaking through the crowd as Tunkeg and Blazinghand enter the train and sit. PALMAR slips through the safety barrier just before it closes, entering two traincars behind.
Cut to JAKARTA EXTERIOR -- wide shot Tunkeg and Blazinghand exiting train, with PALMAR following them. Pan to Tunkeg.
Tunkeg I dunno, I think I should call her now, while she's still thinking about it.
Blazinghand Trust me, younger lover-- if you do that she won't want to talk to you.
Tunkeg She gave me her number!
Blazinghand Look, it's only going to annoy her if you call her now. Let her think about you a little. You can't seem desperate, or she won't want to talk to you.
Tunkeg I know that, but-- oh, here's a shortcut. We don't want to go around the block.
The lovers turn down a narrow alley that cuts through the city block. PALMAR turns the corner behind them, a dark figure silhouetted against the bright surroundings of the city street behind them.
As they walk down the alley, Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone from his outstretched hand.
Blazinghand You're not allowed to use this for the rest of the day, you're probably texting her right now!
Tunkeg, laughing Hey! Give that back!
They struggle with the phone, and finally Tunkeg wrests it free. He looks up and sees PALMAR approaching.
Tunkeg What-
Close-up as PALMAR leaps forward, elbowing Tunkeg in the gut. Tunkeg doubles over, coughing. PALMAR follows it up by grabbing Tunkeg's head and kneeing it. Tunkeg grunts and falls to the ground. His cell phone clatters to the ground.
Ground-level close-up of cell phone screen. TO: 555-8364 MSG: I'm glad you enjoyed it, too. How does Saturday sound?
The phone cracks under PALMAR's shoe as he steps back.
Pan up to PALMAR blocking a punch from Blazinghand. The older man's finely-tuned physique is an awe-inspiring sight in hand-to-hand combat.
Blazinghand steps forward as PALMAR recovers, grabs him by the torso and takes him to the mat, pinning him easily.
Blazinghand What's the meaning of this?
PALMAR, gasping You violated the agreement, and you will be punished like anyone else. Nobody is above it, not even one of you. You know what happened with Bill Murray.
Blazinghand You can't come against me. Not you, not the president, not ANYONE. I'm the greatest brood war player alive, and the council exists only by my hand! So I make it, so I can unmake it.
PALMAR, smirking There will be more after me. The others aren't like you-- they have no limits. They'll break your shoulder, your hand if they have to. More will come. Nobody is above the rules, not even you.
Blazinghand, snarling I wrote those rules. If more of you will come, then let them come. Tell your chairman that this is a warning: next council meeting I'm retaking the chairmanship, there's nothing he can do to stop me.
Blazinghand lifts PALMAR and dumps him into the trash can, headfirst. He closes the lid.
Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone and grabs Tunkeg, lifting him over his shoulders. Sweat trickles down Blazinghand's firm, supple muscles as he carries his groggy teammate out of the alley.
Blazinghand reaches the other end of the alley. Tunkeg stirs, and Blazinghand sets him on his feet. Blazinghand's face shows deep concern for his teammate,
Blazinghand, whispering to the semiconscious Tunkeg You're bleeding... we've got to get you cleaned up and fully-awake before D3 or you're gonna lose all your cases. Come on, man, hang in there...
Wide shot-- with Tunkeg's arm around his shoulders, Blazinghand presses on into the bright JAKARTA day. The silhouettes fade into the sunlit background. Fade to white.
On April 14 2012 18:28 Tunkeg wrote: I love you, BH. I truly do.
Thanks man, I love you too.
This is the poster for a movie I'm self-publishing about us.
Tunkeg x Blazinghand: Bro Love
Act I
Scene III
JAKARTA- Mall Exterior. Overhead shot of Tunkeg and Blazinghand walking along the sidewalk. Blazinghand is talking animatedly with Tunkeg. Tunkeg is holding his cell phone.
Camera pans over to PALMAR, who pushes his way through the crowd, following the two sexy mafia lovers. Cut to shot of left hand in pocket. Cut to shot of PALMAR's face-- a dark grimace, with teeth clenched.
Fade to wide shot: the busy subway stop. 2 rail lines pass through the center of this station, with platforms on either side. Large electronic billboards on either wall.
Tunkeg and Blazinghand are standing close to the rails, talking animatedly. PALMAR comes down the stairs and spots them.
Close-up of PALMAR pushing through the crowd. A woman's voice intones that the train has arrived, first in Indonesian, then in English.
Split-screen shot of PALMAR breaking through the crowd as Tunkeg and Blazinghand enter the train and sit. PALMAR slips through the safety barrier just before it closes, entering two traincars behind.
Cut to JAKARTA EXTERIOR -- wide shot Tunkeg and Blazinghand exiting train, with PALMAR following them. Pan to Tunkeg.
Tunkeg I dunno, I think I should call her now, while she's still thinking about it.
Blazinghand Trust me, younger lover-- if you do that she won't want to talk to you.
Tunkeg She gave me her number!
Blazinghand Look, it's only going to annoy her if you call her now. Let her think about you a little. You can't seem desperate, or she won't want to talk to you.
Tunkeg I know that, but-- oh, here's a shortcut. We don't want to go around the block.
The lovers turn down a narrow alley that cuts through the city block. PALMAR turns the corner behind them, a dark figure silhouetted against the bright surroundings of the city street behind them.
As they walk down the alley, Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone from his outstretched hand.
Blazinghand You're not allowed to use this for the rest of the day, you're probably texting her right now!
Tunkeg, laughing Hey! Give that back!
They struggle with the phone, and finally Tunkeg wrests it free. He looks up and sees PALMAR approaching.
Tunkeg What-
Close-up as PALMAR leaps forward, elbowing Tunkeg in the gut. Tunkeg doubles over, coughing. PALMAR follows it up by grabbing Tunkeg's head and kneeing it. Tunkeg grunts and falls to the ground. His cell phone clatters to the ground.
Ground-level close-up of cell phone screen. TO: 555-8364 MSG: I'm glad you enjoyed it, too. How does Saturday sound?
The phone cracks under PALMAR's shoe as he steps back.
Pan up to PALMAR blocking a punch from Blazinghand. The older man's finely-tuned physique is an awe-inspiring sight in hand-to-hand combat.
Blazinghand steps forward as PALMAR recovers, grabs him by the torso and takes him to the mat, pinning him easily.
Blazinghand What's the meaning of this?
PALMAR, gasping You violated the agreement, and you will be punished like anyone else. Nobody is above it, not even one of you. You know what happened with Bill Murray.
Blazinghand You can't come against me. Not you, not the president, not ANYONE. I'm the greatest brood war player alive, and the council exists only by my hand! So I make it, so I can unmake it.
PALMAR, smirking There will be more after me. The others aren't like you-- they have no limits. They'll break your shoulder, your hand if they have to. More will come. Nobody is above the rules, not even you.
Blazinghand, snarling I wrote those rules. If more of you will come, then let them come. Tell your chairman that this is a warning: next council meeting I'm retaking the chairmanship, there's nothing he can do to stop me.
Blazinghand lifts PALMAR and dumps him into the trash can, headfirst. He closes the lid.
Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone and grabs Tunkeg, lifting him over his shoulders. Sweat trickles down Blazinghand's firm, supple muscles as he carries his groggy teammate out of the alley.
Blazinghand reaches the other end of the alley. Tunkeg stirs, and Blazinghand sets him on his feet. Blazinghand's face shows deep concern for his teammate,
Blazinghand, whispering to the semiconscious Tunkeg You're bleeding... we've got to get you cleaned up and fully-awake before D3 or you're gonna lose all your cases. Come on, man, hang in there...
Wide shot-- with Tunkeg's arm around his shoulders, Blazinghand presses on into the bright JAKARTA day. The silhouettes fade into the sunlit background. Fade to white.
On April 14 2012 18:28 Tunkeg wrote: I love you, BH. I truly do.
Thanks man, I love you too.
This is the poster for a movie I'm self-publishing about us.
Tunkeg x Blazinghand: Bro Love
Act I
Scene III
JAKARTA- Mall Exterior. Overhead shot of Tunkeg and Blazinghand walking along the sidewalk. Blazinghand is talking animatedly with Tunkeg. Tunkeg is holding his cell phone.
Camera pans over to PALMAR, who pushes his way through the crowd, following the two sexy mafia lovers. Cut to shot of left hand in pocket. Cut to shot of PALMAR's face-- a dark grimace, with teeth clenched.
Fade to wide shot: the busy subway stop. 2 rail lines pass through the center of this station, with platforms on either side. Large electronic billboards on either wall.
Tunkeg and Blazinghand are standing close to the rails, talking animatedly. PALMAR comes down the stairs and spots them.
Close-up of PALMAR pushing through the crowd. A woman's voice intones that the train has arrived, first in Indonesian, then in English.
Split-screen shot of PALMAR breaking through the crowd as Tunkeg and Blazinghand enter the train and sit. PALMAR slips through the safety barrier just before it closes, entering two traincars behind.
Cut to JAKARTA EXTERIOR -- wide shot Tunkeg and Blazinghand exiting train, with PALMAR following them. Pan to Tunkeg.
Tunkeg I dunno, I think I should call her now, while she's still thinking about it.
Blazinghand Trust me, younger lover-- if you do that she won't want to talk to you.
Tunkeg She gave me her number!
Blazinghand Look, it's only going to annoy her if you call her now. Let her think about you a little. You can't seem desperate, or she won't want to talk to you.
Tunkeg I know that, but-- oh, here's a shortcut. We don't want to go around the block.
The lovers turn down a narrow alley that cuts through the city block. PALMAR turns the corner behind them, a dark figure silhouetted against the bright surroundings of the city street behind them.
As they walk down the alley, Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone from his outstretched hand.
Blazinghand You're not allowed to use this for the rest of the day, you're probably texting her right now!
Tunkeg, laughing Hey! Give that back!
They struggle with the phone, and finally Tunkeg wrests it free. He looks up and sees PALMAR approaching.
Tunkeg What-
Close-up as PALMAR leaps forward, elbowing Tunkeg in the gut. Tunkeg doubles over, coughing. PALMAR follows it up by grabbing Tunkeg's head and kneeing it. Tunkeg grunts and falls to the ground. His cell phone clatters to the ground.
Ground-level close-up of cell phone screen. TO: 555-8364 MSG: I'm glad you enjoyed it, too. How does Saturday sound?
The phone cracks under PALMAR's shoe as he steps back.
Pan up to PALMAR blocking a punch from Blazinghand. The older man's finely-tuned physique is an awe-inspiring sight in hand-to-hand combat.
Blazinghand steps forward as PALMAR recovers, grabs him by the torso and takes him to the mat, pinning him easily.
Blazinghand What's the meaning of this?
PALMAR, gasping You violated the agreement, and you will be punished like anyone else. Nobody is above it, not even one of you. You know what happened with Bill Murray.
Blazinghand You can't come against me. Not you, not the president, not ANYONE. I'm the greatest brood war player alive, and the council exists only by my hand! So I make it, so I can unmake it.
PALMAR, smirking There will be more after me. The others aren't like you-- they have no limits. They'll break your shoulder, your hand if they have to. More will come. Nobody is above the rules, not even you.
Blazinghand, snarling I wrote those rules. If more of you will come, then let them come. Tell your chairman that this is a warning: next council meeting I'm retaking the chairmanship, there's nothing he can do to stop me.
Blazinghand lifts PALMAR and dumps him into the trash can, headfirst. He closes the lid.
Blazinghand grabs Tunkeg's phone and grabs Tunkeg, lifting him over his shoulders. Sweat trickles down Blazinghand's firm, supple muscles as he carries his groggy teammate out of the alley.
Blazinghand reaches the other end of the alley. Tunkeg stirs, and Blazinghand sets him on his feet. Blazinghand's face shows deep concern for his teammate,
Blazinghand, whispering to the semiconscious Tunkeg You're bleeding... we've got to get you cleaned up and fully-awake before D3 or you're gonna lose all your cases. Come on, man, hang in there...
Wide shot-- with Tunkeg's arm around his shoulders, Blazinghand presses on into the bright JAKARTA day. The silhouettes fade into the sunlit background. Fade to white.
On April 14 2012 20:13 Radfield wrote: Also, let me reiterate. KIlling Tunkeg is actually a BAD move, unless the mafia cop-candidate is already in a bad position relative to the real cop. If you still have 50/50 than it makes sense to leave the cop and fight it out, because the medic has a good chance at a hero save N1.
On April 14 2012 20:04 wherebugsgo wrote: man if only johnny were here
sucks the time zones are so far apart
I'm less interested in Johnny and more in Dirkzor. What are your thoughts Dirkzor?
I think BH should stop spamming the thread for starters... So annoying to read stuff.
On topic: BL is making no sense. First up a weird town claim that we can use for nothing. Why? Just to say he is town?
He is flip flopping on his reads all the time when pushed:
On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you (WBG) depending who dies tonight.
On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why.
Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about th cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early.
I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive.
There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.
On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence.
Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts.
Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre.
From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.
Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen.
Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying:
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly.
Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town).
Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive.
I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!).
Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because....
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb.
I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum.
You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing.
Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate:
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
and posts like this fairly scummy:
On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this:
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen?
Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do
Your saying bugs is scum? Also, let's drop this... I'm gonna regret this if our scum but I think your town now, well you convinced me.....
Now Johnny is town and Radfield or WBG is scum again.
On April 14 2012 20:29 Bluelightz wrote: Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph.
Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person.
Im open to change though
It just doesn't add up. He is changing his opinion in the same pace that BH is posting stupid pictures... He also seems very keen on us hammering BH. + Show Spoiler +
On April 14 2012 19:52 Bluelightz wrote: Oh..... Gaiz hammer him or not?
On April 14 2012 19:59 wherebugsgo wrote: BH you scum?
yes
Hammer him gaiz
All this and he still downplay himself by saying he is useless town and blah blah. He is a good target for the last scum. The time(s?) I've seen him as scum he have been easily found out and makes mistakes when pressured. So this should make sense. He is a bit more active then last time he was scum but maybe he is trying to change it up since last...
Oh and why was it a bad move from scum to kill Tunkeg? isn't it almost the same? They just changed the 50/50 lylo to a 1/4 lylo (if they dodge our medic proc n1) on d2?
That second quote you have, about 'elimination', he was actually referring to WBG.
However, I agree with you that he may be scum. His play is off the wall this game, but reading through his play in Death Factory(town) and Aperture(scum), it seems a bit par for the course.
However, I refuse to lose this game because a singe townie starts playing irrationally. He's the obvious choice right now, but so far nothing seems really scummy, just bad (no offense intended bluelightz, but it seems like your not really putting in any effort to understand what's going on). At the very least, Medic should NOT be covering bluelightz tonight, as his death would be a blessing. I highly doubt mafia will take that kill, which leaves coverage on either Radfield, johnnywup, Bugs or Dirkzor.
Right now my gut tells me Bugs has a decent chance of flipping scum, but I wouldn't put any money on it just yet. Assuming the medic doesn't die tonight and doesn't make a save, he has to claim tomorrow. That will change things around again.
On April 14 2012 21:28 Dirkzor wrote: Oh and why was it a bad move from scum to kill Tunkeg? isn't it almost the same? They just changed the 50/50 lylo to a 1/4 lylo (if they dodge our medic proc n1) on d2?
Because by killing Tunkeg they give up their shot at an instant win on Day 1.
Before we had to lynch successfully twice in a row and 1 failure would mean GG. By killing Tunkeg, we get one kill for free, and only have to worry about making 1 correct lynch instead of two.
I see with the 2nd quote. Must have either misread or wrote the wrong name O_o. But the point is the same. I'm not excluding anyone at this point and anyone doing so is stupid. wbg could very well be scum. He is certainly good enough to not make obvious mistakes.
Johnny's filter is very bad at this point. He tried to undermine Tunkeg early on calling out a potential scumslip. It was stupid since Tunkeg was obviously (we know that now) not scum. He then voted hinting that he doesn't read or care to read the thread closely - hinting he is scum or just a bad reader. Then in his last post he basicly posted nothing taking no stance whatsoever. Not the same he had hinted earlier about him thinking Tunkeg was scummy for his "slip". If mattchew knew Tunkeg was about to die it would make sense to pull back on his "tunkeg is scum" statement. It was to late for him to bus BH since he already called Tunkeg the scum one of the two. So he was forced to write he didn't know which of them was scum.
About it being bad. I'm not quite following you Rad. But since done is done there is no point arguing for or against... We can discuss post game.
Dirkzor, do you agree with me that the medic should probably not protect bluelightz tonight?
My thought is that if bluelightz is a townie, than that is who the mafia will try to go after on Day2 for the mislynch. If mafia chooses to kill bluelightz, that means mafia are left with a much harder task on Day2.
Personally I think that even if bluelightz is publicly not protected, mafia will still want to keep him around, and use that as yet another strike against him.
Hence the medic should not protect bluelightz tonight. Thoughts?
At any rate, the medic should be protecting the player they most want to have around on Day2.
I actually don't want to talk to much about the medic. I don't want to give the mafia to much infomation about how we think the townie way to operate would be. I think the medic should just act on his own.
On April 15 2012 02:56 johnnywup wrote: just woke up. ##vote Blazinghand
Tell me more. Who do you think is scum?
BH obviously for having claimed cop, then the CCer dies, so he should obviously be scum, save idiocy for a town claiming cop. I think you're the scumbuddy for your "confidence" in BH being the scum so early. Only scum should know that, so I think you're bussing.
Assuming I die tonight, where does that leave you with your reads? Who do you think is likely town? Who would you think is likely scum.
In fact, maybe you could rank people for me, give them a grade on how likely to be townie they are.
Does Bugs late condemnation of BH seem off to you?
Does Bluelightz not making sense lead you to think he is scummy, or just a confused townie?
Where does Dirkzor rank? Do you see his contributions as legitimate or contrived?
These are just starter questions to get your juices flowing, so feel free to elaborate above and beyond the things I'm asking in this post. Bluelightz, feel free to respond to this as well(though substitute bluelightz for johnnywup)
On April 15 2012 08:10 Radfield wrote: Lets try this again Johnny.
Assuming I die tonight, where does that leave you with your reads? Who do you think is likely town? Who would you think is likely scum.
In fact, maybe you could rank people for me, give them a grade on how likely to be townie they are.
Does Bugs late condemnation of BH seem off to you?
Does Bluelightz not making sense lead you to think he is scummy, or just a confused townie?
Where does Dirkzor rank? Do you see his contributions as legitimate or contrived?
These are just starter questions to get your juices flowing, so feel free to elaborate above and beyond the things I'm asking in this post. Bluelightz, feel free to respond to this as well(though substitute bluelightz for johnnywup)
Bugs "late condemnation" was fine, when he saw something scummy he went on it and I agree that what he pointed out made me suspect BH more. If it was me I wouldn't really condemn someone unless I thought he was scum, so maybe he was just late to the BH-is-scum party, and didn't see why BH was scum initially.
Actually, looking back at bluelightz he does look way more scummy than you. His responses are exclusively one-liners. And this is extremely contradictory ( the posts are also somewhat far apart so i may be completely wrong about them talking about the same thing but I think they both are talking about my early vote on tunkeg)
On April 14 2012 20:29 Bluelightz wrote: Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph.
Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person.
Im open to change though
[B]On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. [b]Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you depending who dies tonight.
emphasis mine. obviously contradictory
Dirkzors arguments seem genuine and make a ton of sense. Super logical. I'd say he's one of the most likely to be town.
from townliness 1 to 10: Dirkzor 8 Radfield 5 Bluelightz 3 Wherebugsgo 6
I said its either you/wbg and I said you were more townie in the post where I said it, I'm on the road posting from the phone so don't expect me to respond rly fast. Here I'm telling this again: I'm town and I'm not sure your town aswell. Scum hurry up wif your nk plz.
How is it a 50/50 chance to confirm a second player?
If we no-lynch, there is a chance that the doc will die tonight(1/3). That will leave us at a 2v1, exactly the same scenario as if the doctor claims right now. It the doc does not die and does not give us a save, it will give us a 50/50 shot tomorrow. The doc will claim, and mafia will either cc (giving a 50/50) or won't cc (giving a different 50/50).
If the doc makes a save(~1/4 chance?), that means we will have 2 confirmed townies, leaving a 50/50 lynch. NO better than if he doesn't make a save.
If the doctor claims today, we will have the confirmed doc, leaving us a 2v1, no better than our worse case scenario for tomorrow.
It seems to me that no-lynching today is the best chance of victory. If the doc survives we are guaranteed a 50/50. If the doc dies we are no better off than right now. Thoughts?
On April 15 2012 10:22 Bluelightz wrote: I said its either you/wbg and I said you were more townie in the post where I said it, I'm on the road posting from the phone so don't expect me to respond rly fast. Here I'm telling this again: I'm town and I'm not sure your town aswell. Scum hurry up wif your nk plz.
Now that the night kill is in, do you still think I am the most likely scum? If not me than who?
I agree. Doc should stay anonymous and we have a nolynch today in order to have a SLIGHTLY better shot tommorrow. It's only slightly but we need as many advantages as we can get right now.
On April 16 2012 01:41 Radfield wrote: How is it a 50/50 chance to confirm a second player?
If we no-lynch, there is a chance that the doc will die tonight(1/3). That will leave us at a 2v1, exactly the same scenario as if the doctor claims right now. It the doc does not die and does not give us a save, it will give us a 50/50 shot tomorrow. The doc will claim, and mafia will either cc (giving a 50/50) or won't cc (giving a different 50/50).
If the doc makes a save(~1/4 chance?), that means we will have 2 confirmed townies, leaving a 50/50 lynch. NO better than if he doesn't make a save.
If the doctor claims today, we will have the confirmed doc, leaving us a 2v1, no better than our worse case scenario for tomorrow.
It seems to me that no-lynching today is the best chance of victory. If the doc survives we are guaranteed a 50/50. If the doc dies we are no better off than right now. Thoughts?
I agree. Better to have the chance to make it 50/50 tomorrow then to try finding the last scum today when the best scenario possible today is 2v1 (if the last scum doesn't counter claim of course).
About who the last one is... I'm not sure. I won't exclude anyone at this point, but BL is probably on top. He haven't made much sense so far and haven't really chipped in with any thoughts of importance. He also continiously state that he is town. I'm just not sure if he really is the last scum or just not playing well.
Johnny is posting carefully I think. Maybe scum tried to push tunkeg hard in the beginning and that was why he voted and all that jazz. When that didn't work out he went neutral. The fact that he is buddying me rubs me the wrong way.
Then there is you (Radfield) who are making a ton of sense. But that just gives me the willies since I - by reputation - know that you are good at this mafia business. Maybe I'm just paranoid... I'm just scared that you are pulling all the strings here and we are just following you around.
But tomorrow there are less suspects and it should make it easier.
Not buddying you, just think you're least likely to be scum. Things could change that, nothing has so far.
BL seems most likely to scum but I'm not liking how "on top of town" Radfield is. Not necessarily scummy, but if scum is on top of town then it's unlikely for people to lynch him. So that's something to keep in mind. If I learned anything from LI that would be don't take for granted someone acting like a town leader is in fact town.
On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts?
Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.
On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts?
Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.
On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts?
Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.
Why me and Radfield now? Is Johnny town?
johnny is town because IMO scum wouldnt go that far on Tunkeg like johnny did
Its either you or Radfield because out of elimanation you and radfield are left out as the most not sure town reads, I'm still leaning on Radfield but depending on tonight's NK im maybe going to change.
So your logic says that if for example I die tonight Radfield is the last one? And vice versa? I think its stupid to rule out anyone at this point. What if Johnny dies? Where does it leave you?
You say you are still leaning with Rad as the scummiest of me and him - why?
Scum will never kill me period. I'm a liability and an easy mislynch for scum.
Therefore I singled out my most confident town read(jwup) , There's how I got you/radfield.
IMO, you are town for example because of for example this pressure on me.
That's why I'm leaning on Radfield.
I said my reads can change because:
-Medic can Claim -Rad/you might die.
If johnny dies: This, I am not sure, I guess by this case if johnny dies and doesnt flip medic we can find the final scum ez.But if he does, I'm not gonna be sure anymore, but IF that really happens, I'm going to go with my most confident scum read: Radfield.
Lastly, I am town, don't deny it, Wondered why I havent died? I'm town and I'm an easy mislynch, Dirk in all the games you played with me have you not learned? Why I always live to LYLO?
Am I town? Would scum stress this topic this much?
On April 17 2012 00:18 Radfield wrote: That's much better bluelightz. And i agree that there is no way scum will hit you tonight.
lets see what the night brings.
##vote no-lynch
You write as if you already think BL is town? Do you?
##Vote No-Lynch
Not at all, but at least he's giving us something to work with.
I haven't actually gone over any filters recently(or re-read the thread), and am doing my best to keep an open mind until I do. Right now any of the 3 of you could be scum. I will post my reads tonight, and do my best to leave town in good shape if I am killed. I'm pretty confident we have this.
no lynch huh? right decision because a mislynch would cost us the game. if doc heals correctly then it's 100% win for town i think. if maf kills doc we're in a tough situation though. so this game is almost completely decided tonight.
On April 17 2012 04:47 johnnywup wrote: dead thread is dead ;;
no lynch huh? right decision because a mislynch would cost us the game. if doc heals correctly then it's 100% win for town i think. if maf kills doc we're in a tough situation though. so this game is almost completely decided tonight.
How do you figure that? Best case for us is any way where its 50/50. Only way this won't be the case is if Mafia hit our medic. It would be slightly better - in the way that we have more people to find the last - with a save tonight but it would still be 50/50 with 2 confirmed town.
If mafia hit our medic it would end in a 2v1 scenario.
this orginally had me derp on timezones and said for people not to post cause i thought the night phase was over. as palmar says below night ends in a little over 11 hours
Well, common sense seems to point to bluelightz as the last scum, but he's almost too scummy. He folded under a small amount of pressure from bugs, and his reads have been flopping around like landed fish all game.
Lets start first with Dirkzor though, whom I think is town.
Dirkzor
If Dirkzor is scum, he has played a very strong game indeed. However, I think him strongly town. His breakdown analysis of Tunkeg vs BH was quite good. Not because it came to any definite conclusions, but because it pointed out all the little niggly stuff that should have been pointed out. Making a case as a mafia is quite difficult, and often you miss things that a townie would see. Dirkzor hits most of the important points, and comes to a solid conclusion:
To conclude something. Both have done things that I find scummy or "weird-if-town". The biggest point for me is that Tunkeg stayed up. Radfield naiiled when he said that scum is always looking for a reason to NOT be active. Sleeping is the best and most valid reason. I went to bed and I live in the same timezone as Tunkeg. Why wouldn't he do it? Because he know the game revolved around the cop and he was the cop so he HAD to stay up to make a difference. A big scumtell on BH is how he, in his first post, was dead set on claiming. But didn't. Then when Radfield made logic work he claimed. Later he claimed his mindset was to "wait and discuss". His words and actions just didn't add up.
I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote.
On the surface you could read that quote and think Dirkzor is being wishy washy, but he's not. He breaks down his thought process, and concludes that BH is the likely scum, but by no means definite. It's a good conclusion.
Dirkzors posting is generally very open and unafraid. He's pointing out the important bits when they come up, and I've shared many of the same conclusions as him about bugs, johnnywup and BL. He has also been putting in a fair amount of effort to his posting, and is obviously rereading and filtering.
Honestly, when I do get fooled hard by scum it's by the ones who put in lots of effort. However I don't think that's the case here. Dirkzor is firmly town in my mind.
johnnywup
Johnny I am less sure of. However he has several points that lead me to believe he is town,but also several points that are scummy.
First is the Tunkeg vote, which is a strange one. I've seen townies jump on the exact same thing before, and generally not mafia. It's a very extreme thing to jump on someone because they changed one word, and mafia does not like to be extreme. The vote isn't something I would necessarily say is a move that generates johnny townie points, but neither does it send him in the direction of scummy.
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
Now this is a wishy-washy paragraph. It basically just regurgitates dirkzors posts, but without the dirkzor conclusion that BH is the likely scum. However, the post doesn't really resonate with any kind of fear, and is certainly not well-crafted(like I would expect a mafia post to be). Additionally, this is 1 hour from the lynch, and an hour from it becoming obvious that BH is scum. I feel like scum would have used an opportunity like this to get a little extra cred by calling out BH, but maybe not since scum KNEW BH was getting lynched.
It's possible that if johnny is scum, this post was made simply to get it in before blazinghand flipped. It would certainly explain the low content and the lack of effort, since he knew the flip was coming shortly.
On April 15 2012 02:56 johnnywup wrote: just woke up. ##vote Blazinghand
Tell me more. Who do you think is scum?
BH obviously for having claimed cop, then the CCer dies, so he should obviously be scum, save idiocy for a town claiming cop. I think you're the scumbuddy for your "confidence" in BH being the scum so early. Only scum should know that, so I think you're bussing.
The above quote is a strange one, but I see where he is coming from. My initial post detailing suspicion of BH was very early, and based almost entirely on a gut. If the mafia plan all along was to simply cc and shoot the cop, then it makes sense for mafia to be the first person to call out the false cop.
What makes this seem genuine is that at the time johnny is writing this, calling me out is not popular opinion(unlike bluelightz who later claims I am bussing). Scum like popular opinions, and this is not one. In fact, it puts him square in the spotlight of a potentially dangerous player. + Show Spoiler +
On April 15 2012 08:10 Radfield wrote: Lets try this again Johnny.
Assuming I die tonight, where does that leave you with your reads? Who do you think is likely town? Who would you think is likely scum.
In fact, maybe you could rank people for me, give them a grade on how likely to be townie they are.
Does Bugs late condemnation of BH seem off to you?
Does Bluelightz not making sense lead you to think he is scummy, or just a confused townie?
Where does Dirkzor rank? Do you see his contributions as legitimate or contrived?
These are just starter questions to get your juices flowing, so feel free to elaborate above and beyond the things I'm asking in this post. Bluelightz, feel free to respond to this as well(though substitute bluelightz for johnnywup)
Bugs "late condemnation" was fine, when he saw something scummy he went on it and I agree that what he pointed out made me suspect BH more. If it was me I wouldn't really condemn someone unless I thought he was scum, so maybe he was just late to the BH-is-scum party, and didn't see why BH was scum initially.
Actually, looking back at bluelightz he does look way more scummy than you. His responses are exclusively one-liners. And this is extremely contradictory ( the posts are also somewhat far apart so i may be completely wrong about them talking about the same thing but I think they both are talking about my early vote on tunkeg)
On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you depending who dies tonight.
emphasis mine. obviously contradictory
Dirkzors arguments seem genuine and make a ton of sense. Super logical. I'd say he's one of the most likely to be town.
from townliness 1 to 10: Dirkzor 8 Radfield 5 Bluelightz 3 Wherebugsgo 6
His next post however he correctly calls out bluelightz for his contradiction. He also disagrees with me about WBG, instead of taking the easy stance and agreeing that bugs looked a bit scummy. Lastly he paints dirkzor as solid town, something mafia would be loathe to do in a game that will likely come down to a 50/50.
There are a few other things as well that stick out to me, but nothing particularly important or pressing. In general johnny seems like he is posting freely, and is unafraid to make his own opinions.
PS: Johnny you're hanging '/b' that you missed threatened my entire post!
bluelightz
bluelightz I have an incredible time reading. His posts are basically just his blurbs of though from the exact moment he is typing. More than 2/3rds of his posts are 1-liners(including a zero-liner!), and the others are often just him repeating himself.
It's almost like he's trying to look scummy, as he hits ever major checklist item:
- Super wishy-washy with reads - calls himself useless multiple times - gives himself an excuse to still be alive(when he didn't need one) - calls everyone town for weak reasons, and calls no one scum. Honestly he has no actual reasons for why anyone is scummy.
However, some of what he's written I just don't understand why mafia would write.
On April 14 2012 10:01 Bluelightz wrote: I dont fucking have an idea on what to say but my logic says this
Tunkeg scum => Radfield Tunkeg scum team
BH scum => BH & ??? Scum team.
Then he backtracks like 5 minutes later when I ask him what ties me to Tunkeg. It's like he's just writing stream of consciousness.
I've glanced over a couple of his other games, one as scum and one as town, and honestly neither looks like this. The bluelightz in those games looks like a guy actually playing the game, whereas for the first few days of this game bluelights is out to lunch:
On April 14 2012 19:32 Bluelightz wrote: Okay. The doctor selected BH I guess :| answer coming as I read pals filter
On April 14 2012 19:33 Bluelightz wrote: Ignore BH he's scum
On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck?
Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield
Why do you think Bugs is town?
Elimination and he's been active, and I don't think scum would lunge at me like that.
Some of this stuff is just ridiculous, and I kind of expect a mafia to be more careful in their posting. However, the list of scum-tells is just too long. In particular, and most damning, are his reads(and contradictions) and lack of reads:
On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you depending who dies tonight.
On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck?
Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield
Jwup is still scummy, along with radfield. Bugs is now town for some strange reason
On April 14 2012 20:29 Bluelightz wrote: Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph.
Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person.
Im open to change though
Jwup is now town for voting Tunkeg...
On April 14 2012 19:49 Bluelightz wrote: My mind tells me that dirk being drunk is a sign of being town because i don't think scum would've kinda did that IMO, aside that he has been giving his opinion on stuff like BH\tunkeg thing
Dirkzor is town for being drunk and giving an opinion
On April 14 2012 20:20 Bluelightz wrote: IMO dirk is town, he uses logic for his reasons on stuff, him being drunk lol,etc.
Dirkzor is still town, this time with an actual arguable reason
On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts?
Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.
On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts?
Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.
Why me and Radfield now? Is Johnny town?
johnny is town because IMO scum wouldnt go that far on Tunkeg like johnny did
Its either you or Radfield because out of elimanation you and radfield are left out as the most not sure town reads, I'm still leaning on Radfield but depending on tonight's NK im maybe going to change.
Dirkzor is now one of the top scum candidates(for no reason), equal to radfield.
Johnny goes from scummy to most townie for the exact same reason(voting Tunkeg). Dirkzor goes from likely town to equal scum candidate for no reason at all. Radfield is scummy for a random reason. Mainly by process of elimination. WBG is town for a really random reason.
Basically, no one is ever on the scum list by virtue of being scummy. People are on the scum list by virtue of not being seen as townies. That would even be fine and dandy if the list of townies wasn't constantly changing for random reasons. When I am scum, I find it very hard to call out townies as being scummy, because I KNOW they are not scum. Likewise everything they do seems like a townie tell, because I KNOW they are townies.
That certainly seems what is going on here. It's possible that bluelightz is just a poor townie, and for that reason I am continuing to keep my mind open. I refuse to lose because 1 townie played really bad. If we had more than one mislynch this game, killing bluelightz would be a no-brainer. If he's not scum, then it's the worst town play I've ever seen, which is actually possible, as something has to be the worst I've seen
The only real other reservations I have about bluelightz possibly being town is his exchange with BH after BH was revealed. It was weird for sure, and I don't know what to make of it. Again, I would not expect mafia to post like he did.
Anyways, bluelightz is probably the last scum, fortunately bugs agrees with his dying post. The only niggle is that johnnywup could potentially be the last scum, but I doubt it at this point.
I don't think bl is a bad townie, he usually puts more effort in so he's either scum or busy. most likely scum. its weird how different he is in this game than any other game i've seen/played with him in it. Also calling someone town then KPing them seems like a way for scum to be like "ha i told you he was town!" thing, trying to clear himself of guilt.
good writeup, i agree with the points, i almost wish it was a third party writing that so i could see an analysis on you haha. its good to see someone putting effort in this dead thread. If BL turns out to be town i will be extremely shocked.
(PS way to use my contradiction argument as your own ><)
I agree very much with your analysis. I think the scummyness-gap between BL and Johnny is smaller. I think Johnny is a bit more scummy then you make him. Your point about him pointing out BL's contradicting statements was already pointed out by me. I just can't shake how he acted regarding the Tunkeg/BH situation day 1. Scum knew that 1 mislynch day1 would mean victory. Between Johnny and BH the obvious choice to fake-claim cop is BH. He have the thread presence and can write a lot of shit. Johnny just needed to push the idea that the real cop was scum (tunkeg). Thats what I think he did, but poorly. When they could see your and my posts suggesting BH as the scum one they changed tactics and so did Johnny's posting.
I think the last scum is between BL and Johnny. With BL leading the race to scummyness.
I have nothing really to add about BL then what you already wrote and what I've written earlier.
Day 3 ends about 36 hours from now, that's Wednesday, Apr 18 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). Remember the day ends as soon as everyone has voted, or there is a majority for one person.
Here. I'll stress this out, I AM TOWN. People, do I look like scum for fucking pressing this the whole game? Would scum claim town openly like this?(Not Kenpachi)
Nice surge of activity BL. I'm writing from work so this won't be long.
Blue is the last scum. If I'm not and BL is not claiming medic then Johnny have to be medic. That means BL is the last scum. I just can't figure out how he guessed Johnny was medic? There are no way to know who the medic is.. as scum or town?! So he guessed and got lucky?
On April 17 2012 20:06 Dirkzor wrote: Nice surge of activity BL. I'm writing from work so this won't be long.
Blue is the last scum. If I'm not and BL is not claiming medic then Johnny have to be medic. That means BL is the last scum. I just can't figure out how he guessed Johnny was medic? There are no way to know who the medic is.. as scum or town?! So he guessed and got lucky?
On April 17 2012 20:06 Dirkzor wrote: Nice surge of activity BL. I'm writing from work so this won't be long.
Blue is the last scum. If I'm not and BL is not claiming medic then Johnny have to be medic. That means BL is the last scum. I just can't figure out how he guessed Johnny was medic? There are no way to know who the medic is.. as scum or town?! So he guessed and got lucky?
On April 17 2012 20:06 Dirkzor wrote: Nice surge of activity BL. I'm writing from work so this won't be long.
Blue is the last scum. If I'm not and BL is not claiming medic then Johnny have to be medic. That means BL is the last scum. I just can't figure out how he guessed Johnny was medic? There are no way to know who the medic is.. as scum or town?! So he guessed and got lucky?
##Vote Bluelightz
GG BL. To bad we all figured you out anyway...
Here ye, here ye Dirkzor just claimed scum thanks Dirk.
Logic = Im Town, johnny is medic, your town? nahhh your scum Dirk my logic worked out after all <3 <3 <3
My knowledge of my role pm tells me that I am town. Your intention of not claiming means your vt or scum. But since jwup is medic your confirmed scum to meh. Johnny please believe me ;;
On April 17 2012 22:41 Dirkzor wrote: How is that a scumslip? Are you going BH on us now and just spam up the thread because you know you lost?
From your posting its clear you'll never claim medic. I'm not the medic, I'm town. That means Johnny is the medic and you are the last scum!
I've just got home so I'll re-read and filter in a bit. Try to actually make a case (more then I already have) instead of using convoluted logic...
Err my logic is that I think you are scum? Good effort dirk but your not town blame it on me though if jwup votes me I played terribly. DIRKZOR IS SCUM. I'll repeat that. Idc about making a case because you went from not sure town to sure scum with your first post in this day
I'm not medic = scum or town but I know I'm town so your scum. JWUP. Hammer dirk and your sig will change for da better
Hey dirk would town keep on stressing the fact that he's town? Would scum openly claim?
On April 17 2012 22:41 Dirkzor wrote: How is that a scumslip? Are you going BH on us now and just spam up the thread because you know you lost?
From your posting its clear you'll never claim medic. I'm not the medic, I'm town. That means Johnny is the medic and you are the last scum!
I've just got home so I'll re-read and filter in a bit. Try to actually make a case (more then I already have) instead of using convoluted logic...
Err my logic is that I think you are scum? Good effort dirk but your not town blame it on me though if jwup votes me I played terribly. DIRKZOR IS SCUM. I'll repeat that. Idc about making a case because you went from not sure town to sure scum with your first post in this day
I'm not medic = scum or town but I know I'm town so your scum. JWUP. Hammer dirk and your sig will change for da better
Hey dirk would town keep on stressing the fact that he's town? Would scum openly claim?
From what I bolded you are using the logic anyone - town or scum - would use in this situation. Its shit because its the only argument you have. I have the same argument just reversed.
As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter that I KNOW you are scum. I matters that I can convince Johnny that what I know to be true is also right. You don't even care to make a case because you can't really find evidence to prove that I'm scum. You just blatantly state it while I have 3+ days of scummyness from you that I (and Radfield) have pointed out throughout this game.
On April 17 2012 22:58 Bluelightz wrote: You cemented my read dirk after killing radfield
If I were scum why would I kill Radfield knowing you would pick me as the last scum? Doesn't make sense. Had you been the medic you would have had the deciding vote. So if I were scum I would be dead. Doesn't make sense for me to kill Radfield If I were scum. You are reaching. I think you killed Radfield so you had a clear reason to call me scum today. Also because Radfield clearly thought you were the last scum.
You did the same night 1:
On April 15 2012 10:22 Bluelightz wrote: I said its either you(radfield)/wbg and I said you were more townie in the post where I said it, I'm on the road posting from the phone so don't expect me to respond rly fast. Here I'm telling this again: I'm town and I'm not sure your town aswell. Scum hurry up wif your nk plz.
That was just before night 1 ended and wbg died. I think you just forgot about the No-lynch option and had to change your plan instead of getting Radfield killed. So now you made it between me and him and killed Radfield assuming I was either the medic or the townie who would be protected.
Also:
On April 15 2012 16:09 wherebugsgo wrote: dunno if I'll be around or not for the daypost, but if I die tonight let it be known that I believe bluelightz to be the scum.
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
Kinda looks like im rushing to type right? lots of words put together? First letter of each multiword spells out IAMDOC. So yeah, I'm doc.
But you guys know this already, as of today.
I also don't like your surge in activity, BL, and your argument against him isn't that good. Anyways, I'm not gonna vote just yet, even though I'm 99% sure it's BL. I need to go to school and will read filters hardcore when I'm back.
On April 17 2012 23:01 Bluelightz wrote: Guys if you look at dirks first conclusion he says that he thinks BH is more scummy but slightly encourages change in mind.
You really are making this easy for me BL.
Why wouldn't I encourage change of mind on the BH/Tunkeg situation? It was before any flip. I didn't know you would kill Tunkeg so BH would be confirmed scum... Had I know it would have been easy to just call out BH as a scummy bastard!
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
Kinda looks like im rushing to type right? lots of words put together? First letter of each multiword spells out IAMDOC. So yeah, I'm doc.
But you guys know this already, as of today.
I also don't like your surge in activity, BL, and your argument against him isn't that good. Anyways, I'm not gonna vote just yet, even though I'm 99% sure it's BL. I need to go to school and will read filters hardcore when I'm back.
Jdub if u vote me we lose. End of story. I'm the 1% rofl.
4h. Cool. I'm glad you are not rushing even though I know the last scum I can see your position. You just have 2 people shouting at the other one calling him scum.
And BL I'm not trying to convince you that you are scum. You already know that. I'm trying to convince Johnny.
Fact is this: your trying to lynch me for being me. You played with me many times dirk, u know that I'm useless, now your trying to push me for it. I'm just playing in a way that I think is good to win.
Side note: I want to release my emotions right now ;;
You guys know why dirk is pushing me of all people? Why he left me alive? Because I'm an easy mislynch, in lylo PLEASE BELIEVE ME JUST THIS ONCE, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DIRKZOR IS SCUM!!!!
I think I'm going to wake up finding town lose because of me so gg good game dirk u played well.
Hereby ignoring DIRKZOR and never responding to him ever again.
On April 17 2012 23:38 Bluelightz wrote: Fact is this: your trying to lynch me for being me. You played with me many times dirk, u know that I'm useless, now your trying to push me for it. I'm just playing in a way that I think is good to win.
Side note: I want to release my emotions right now ;;
Thats actually why I've not been completely sure you were the last scum. Thats why I pointed out Johnny as the potential last scum just before day post. I've had this annoying feeling you were being you normal self. But all that is just WIFOM now since I know you are scum.
I'm currently re-reading the entire thread waiting for Johnny. Post when you are here Johnny.
i'd appreciate a post that actually explains dirkzor being scum if you want me to take you seriously BL. you're defending yourself and posting a lot without really saying anything. Explain why you're town and he's scum. don't say "hes scum by the merit of me being town". I don't know you're town so that kind of explanation isn't helpful.
On April 14 2012 20:16 wherebugsgo wrote: I say it like it is! In RL that tends toward me being "brutally honest" with people. Although in mafia I exaggerate it because it's a good way (IMO) to make people react genuinely.
On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why.
Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about the cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early.
I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive.
There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.
On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence.
Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts.
Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre.
From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.
Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen.
Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying:
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly.
Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town).
Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive.
I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!).
Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because....
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb.
I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum.
You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing.
Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate:
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
and posts like this fairly scummy:
On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this:
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen?
Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do
I disagree, obviously because I am town, but also because I had come to the conclusion that BH was scum and I was looking for the second scum. I was trying to jump the gun.
Dirkzor was correct to point out that I had assumed BH was scum and I was trying to move on early. It doesn't exonerate Dirkzor, since some of his wording was questionable, but I think between the remaining four players you and dirkzor would rank above johnny and bluelightz.
Right now bluelightz is acting incredibly strangely and not responding to the questions we're asking in a way I'd expect a townie to respond. It's really weird that he got prickly to my question of "are you scum" and he actually called himself useless. I'd expect that if he were actually town to take offense to that and at the very least try to prove he's not useless.
On April 14 2012 20:13 Radfield wrote: Also, let me reiterate. KIlling Tunkeg is actually a BAD move, unless the mafia cop-candidate is already in a bad position relative to the real cop. If you still have 50/50 than it makes sense to leave the cop and fight it out, because the medic has a good chance at a hero save N1.
On April 14 2012 20:04 wherebugsgo wrote: man if only johnny were here
sucks the time zones are so far apart
I'm less interested in Johnny and more in Dirkzor. What are your thoughts Dirkzor?
I think BH should stop spamming the thread for starters... So annoying to read stuff.
On topic: BL is making no sense. First up a weird town claim that we can use for nothing. Why? Just to say he is town?
He is flip flopping on his reads all the time when pushed:
On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote: Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you (WBG) depending who dies tonight.
On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote: Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why.
Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about th cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early.
I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive.
There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor. First is his response to me on page 3:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote: I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.
There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.
I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.
After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.
Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.
On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote: Ok.
Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.
His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence.
Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts.
Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre.
From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.
Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen.
Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying:
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly.
Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First.
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.
I am the cop.
Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!
Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.
BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town).
Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive.
I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!).
Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because....
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb.
I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum.
You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing.
Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate:
On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote: Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.
and posts like this fairly scummy:
On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote: I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this:
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen?
Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do
Your saying bugs is scum? Also, let's drop this... I'm gonna regret this if our scum but I think your town now, well you convinced me.....
Now Johnny is town and Radfield or WBG is scum again.
On April 14 2012 20:29 Bluelightz wrote: Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph.
Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person.
Im open to change though
It just doesn't add up. He is changing his opinion in the same pace that BH is posting stupid pictures... He also seems very keen on us hammering BH. + Show Spoiler +
On April 14 2012 19:52 Bluelightz wrote: Oh..... Gaiz hammer him or not?
On April 14 2012 19:59 wherebugsgo wrote: BH you scum?
yes
Hammer him gaiz
All this and he still downplay himself by saying he is useless town and blah blah. He is a good target for the last scum. The time(s?) I've seen him as scum he have been easily found out and makes mistakes when pressured. So this should make sense. He is a bit more active then last time he was scum but maybe he is trying to change it up since last...
On April 17 2012 11:48 Radfield wrote: --snipped--
bluelightz
bluelightz I have an incredible time reading. His posts are basically just his blurbs of though from the exact moment he is typing. More than 2/3rds of his posts are 1-liners(including a zero-liner!), and the others are often just him repeating himself.
It's almost like he's trying to look scummy, as he hits ever major checklist item:
- Super wishy-washy with reads - calls himself useless multiple times - gives himself an excuse to still be alive(when he didn't need one) - calls everyone town for weak reasons, and calls no one scum. Honestly he has no actual reasons for why anyone is scummy.
However, some of what he's written I just don't understand why mafia would write.
On April 14 2012 10:01 Bluelightz wrote: I dont fucking have an idea on what to say but my logic says this
Tunkeg scum => Radfield Tunkeg scum team
BH scum => BH & ??? Scum team.
Then he backtracks like 5 minutes later when I ask him what ties me to Tunkeg. It's like he's just writing stream of consciousness.
I've glanced over a couple of his other games, one as scum and one as town, and honestly neither looks like this. The bluelightz in those games looks like a guy actually playing the game, whereas for the first few days of this game bluelights is out to lunch:
On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote: like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck?
Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield
Why do you think Bugs is town?
Elimination and he's been active, and I don't think scum would lunge at me like that.
Some of this stuff is just ridiculous, and I kind of expect a mafia to be more careful in their posting. However, the list of scum-tells is just too long. In particular, and most damning, are his reads(and contradictions) and lack of reads:
On April 14 2012 19:49 Bluelightz wrote: My mind tells me that dirk being drunk is a sign of being town because i don't think scum would've kinda did that IMO, aside that he has been giving his opinion on stuff like BH\tunkeg thing
Dirkzor is town for being drunk and giving an opinion
On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts?
Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.
On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote: Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.
Who do you think is the last scum?
BL, any thoughts?
Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.
Why me and Radfield now? Is Johnny town?
johnny is town because IMO scum wouldnt go that far on Tunkeg like johnny did
Its either you or Radfield because out of elimanation you and radfield are left out as the most not sure town reads, I'm still leaning on Radfield but depending on tonight's NK im maybe going to change.
Dirkzor is now one of the top scum candidates(for no reason), equal to radfield.
Johnny goes from scummy to most townie for the exact same reason(voting Tunkeg). Dirkzor goes from likely town to equal scum candidate for no reason at all. Radfield is scummy for a random reason. Mainly by process of elimination. WBG is town for a really random reason.
Basically, no one is ever on the scum list by virtue of being scummy. People are on the scum list by virtue of not being seen as townies. That would even be fine and dandy if the list of townies wasn't constantly changing for random reasons. When I am scum, I find it very hard to call out townies as being scummy, because I KNOW they are not scum. Likewise everything they do seems like a townie tell, because I KNOW they are townies.
That certainly seems what is going on here. It's possible that bluelightz is just a poor townie, and for that reason I am continuing to keep my mind open. I refuse to lose because 1 townie played really bad. If we had more than one mislynch this game, killing bluelightz would be a no-brainer. If he's not scum, then it's the worst town play I've ever seen, which is actually possible, as something has to be the worst I've seen
The only real other reservations I have about bluelightz possibly being town is his exchange with BH after BH was revealed. It was weird for sure, and I don't know what to make of it. Again, I would not expect mafia to post like he did.
Anyways, bluelightz is probably the last scum, fortunately bugs agrees with his dying post. The only niggle is that johnnywup could potentially be the last scum, but I doubt it at this point.
bluelightz is very likely the last scum
On April 17 2012 12:46 johnnywup wrote: I don't think bl is a bad townie, he usually puts more effort in so he's either scum or busy. most likely scum. its weird how different he is in this game than any other game i've seen/played with him in it. Also calling someone town then KPing them seems like a way for scum to be like "ha i told you he was town!" thing, trying to clear himself of guilt.
good writeup, i agree with the points, i almost wish it was a third party writing that so i could see an analysis on you haha. its good to see someone putting effort in this dead thread. If BL turns out to be town i will be extremely shocked.
(PS way to use my contradiction argument as your own ><)
On April 18 2012 04:17 johnnywup wrote: No questions for you I just want to know BL's explanation. I doubt anything he can say will change my mind on him being scum though
I can understand the need for answer from BL, but if you don't really think he can provide an answer that turn you around can you just vote now so we can celebrate?
On April 17 2012 19:24 Bluelightz wrote: medic is jwup GG.
15 minutes later
On April 17 2012 19:39 Bluelightz wrote: Here. I'll stress this out, I AM TOWN. People, do I look like scum for fucking pressing this the whole game? Would scum claim town openly like this?(Not Kenpachi)
MEDIC CLAIM NOW.
emphasis mine
rofl, if bluelightz is town then dirkzor is a fucking genius at mafia.
i definitely thought dirkzor was scummy as shit esp this last day but i couldnt see bl not being scum with how he played the whole game. scummy whole game > scummy one day. sigh
[4/13/2012 11:20:20 PM] Blazinghand: yo [4/13/2012 11:20:22 PM] Blazinghand: so i claimed cop [4/13/2012 11:20:24 PM] Dirkzor: Hi there! [4/13/2012 11:20:26 PM] Dirkzor: Dirk here [4/13/2012 11:20:29 PM] Dirkzor: yeah i saw [4/13/2012 11:20:30 PM] Blazinghand: since the cop claim was inevitable [4/13/2012 11:20:39 PM] Dirkzor: yeha. one of us had to do it [4/13/2012 11:20:43 PM] Blazinghand: who should we shoot? [4/13/2012 11:20:49 PM] Dirkzor: still reading last page now Just woke up [4/13/2012 11:20:58 PM] Blazinghand: kk [4/13/2012 11:21:15 PM] Blazinghand: i'm considering johnnywup because he supported me [4/13/2012 11:21:32 PM] Dirkzor: Right now we should shoot WBG i think. Radfield is making ton of sense but I don't think he is a blue. and the blue wins this game [4/13/2012 11:21:36 PM] Blazinghand: ok [4/13/2012 11:21:42 PM] Blazinghand: i'll PM Palm [4/13/2012 11:21:49 PM] Dirkzor: wait we have time [4/13/2012 11:21:56 PM] Dirkzor: let me read the rest first and post =) [4/13/2012 11:22:02 PM] Blazinghand: ok [4/13/2012 11:22:03 PM] Blazinghand: I sent in the JW shot already [4/13/2012 11:22:06 PM] Blazinghand: so i'm gonna change it [4/13/2012 11:22:12 PM] Blazinghand: just because WBG sounds smarter [4/13/2012 11:22:17 PM] Dirkzor: let it stay for now [4/13/2012 11:22:19 PM] Blazinghand: oh ok [4/13/2012 11:22:31 PM] Dirkzor: what the time in your zone now? [4/13/2012 11:22:35 PM] Blazinghand: 11:20 pm [4/13/2012 11:22:40 PM] Blazinghand: i'll be up for another 3-4 hours [4/13/2012 11:22:45 PM] Dirkzor: ok [4/13/2012 11:22:46 PM] Dirkzor: super [4/13/2012 11:23:54 PM] Blazinghand: N0 is only 12 hours btw [4/13/2012 11:24:09 PM] Dirkzor: yeah.. 3½ h left [4/13/2012 11:28:44 PM] Dirkzor: hmm. YOu're dead =) [4/13/2012 11:28:59 PM] Blazinghand: should we just shoot tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:29:37 PM] Dirkzor: I was thinking about it. That way town don't get to me by being lucky and they dont get anymore confirmed towns by way of him checking. [4/13/2012 11:29:55 PM] Dirkzor: But i just have to think it through. I bus/vote you d1 [4/13/2012 11:30:11 PM] Blazinghand: yeah I mean there is another option right [4/13/2012 11:30:14 PM] Blazinghand: shoot a townie [4/13/2012 11:30:19 PM] Blazinghand: and you just buddy up to tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:31:32 PM] Dirkzor: hmm... Right now tunkeg won't ever check radfield. [4/13/2012 11:31:40 PM] Blazinghand: right [4/13/2012 11:31:50 PM] Blazinghand: I think he's gonna check JW [4/13/2012 11:31:55 PM] Blazinghand: which is why i want to shoot JW [4/13/2012 11:31:55 PM] Dirkzor: or BL [4/13/2012 11:32:14 PM] Blazinghand: if we can shoot whoever he's checking [4/13/2012 11:32:21 PM] Blazinghand: he'll look very bad [4/13/2012 11:33:04 PM] Dirkzor: yeah. But do you want to risk it? [4/13/2012 11:33:28 PM] Dirkzor: I would rather end up with a scenario like this: [4/13/2012 11:34:42 PM] Dirkzor: n0: Shoot tunkeg d1: Lynch you N1: Shoot whoever i think is medic (or the most townie). Medic have 25% to save. d2: 4 players alive. LYLO. no one confirmed. [4/13/2012 11:35:03 PM] Blazinghand: the good news is we go into D2 with no good discussion happening [4/13/2012 11:35:03 PM] Dirkzor: With me BL and mattchew is should be able to come out alive [4/13/2012 11:35:13 PM] Blazinghand: ok, I agree with this plan [4/13/2012 11:35:19 PM] Blazinghand: i'll change the shot to tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:35:36 PM] Dirkzor: But it all depends on if we want to get lucky now or lucky later [4/13/2012 11:36:04 PM] Blazinghand: if we dont' shoot tunkeg though,a nd I get lynched D1 [4/13/2012 11:36:05 PM] Dirkzor: we have to dodge 2 medics with my plan (tonight and night1) or get lucky and kill the right dude to night [4/13/2012 11:36:21 PM] Blazinghand: we're looking at 3 confirmed town players D2 [4/13/2012 11:36:25 PM] Blazinghand: unless we shoot one of them of course [4/13/2012 11:36:40 PM] Blazinghand: if Radfield hasn't made his case I'd say we shoot JW [4/13/2012 11:36:46 PM] Blazinghand: but after the Radfield case it might be better just to shoot tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:38:32 PM] Dirkzor: another scenario: we shoot JW. Tunk checked BL. d1: You get lynched (most likely). Now there are 2 confirmed. n1: I shoot either BL (can't shoot Tunkeg due to the medic) [4/13/2012 11:38:56 PM] Dirkzor: d2: Ends with me, rad, wbg, tunkeg at lylo. 2 confirmed. [4/13/2012 11:39:16 PM] Blazinghand: then it's basically you vs the other unconfirmed guy [4/13/2012 11:39:20 PM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/13/2012 11:39:36 PM] Blazinghand: if tunkeg checked JW though, then we have a strong chance D1 [4/13/2012 11:40:03 PM] Blazinghand: the real question is how confident we are that tunkeg is going to check JW [4/13/2012 11:40:44 PM] Dirkzor: Not very good. WBG havent posted anything usefull yet. Mattchew is being an idiot. BL is spewing nonsense and I havent even posted [4/13/2012 11:40:53 PM] Dirkzor: so he have reason to check any of the 4 [4/13/2012 11:41:14 PM] Dirkzor: If i start posting sense (which i should soon) that leaves maybe only 3 [4/13/2012 11:41:40 PM] Blazinghand: tunkeg is asleep though [4/13/2012 11:41:43 PM] Dirkzor: But will medic protect Tunkeg n0? [4/13/2012 11:41:44 PM] Blazinghand: he probably already sent in his check [4/13/2012 11:41:53 PM] Blazinghand: medic MIGHT protect tunkeg n0 [4/13/2012 11:41:55 PM] Blazinghand: but that's a huge risk [4/13/2012 11:42:06 PM] Blazinghand: because... if tunkeg is scum [4/13/2012 11:42:13 PM] Dirkzor: yeah.. [4/13/2012 11:42:22 PM] Blazinghand: and we're expected to shoot into the VTs looking for the medic [4/13/2012 11:42:32 PM] Dirkzor: I think we should kill Tunkeg. [4/13/2012 11:42:39 PM] Blazinghand: I think so as well [4/13/2012 11:42:42 PM] Blazinghand: I'll send in the shot. [4/13/2012 11:43:17 PM] Dirkzor: problem is medic will protect rad/WBG night1 and I don't want those guys at LYLO :D But thats my problem I guess. [4/13/2012 11:44:08 PM] Blazinghand: very well [4/13/2012 11:44:11 PM] Blazinghand: I have pmed Palmar [4/13/2012 11:44:33 PM] Blazinghand: at this point I think i'm just gonna be silent until daybreak unless you need me to bus or something [4/13/2012 11:45:18 PM] Dirkzor: good. Don't bus today. It will be obvious once Tunkeg dies that you as scum would be anti his team mate. [4/13/2012 11:45:35 PM] Dirkzor: So basicly doing nothing leaves be pretty neutral so they can't find me through you [4/13/2012 11:45:42 PM] Dirkzor: leaves me* [4/13/2012 11:45:49 PM] Blazinghand: gotcha [4/13/2012 11:46:41 PM] Dirkzor: But I will be leaning you as scum and support radfeilds case. That will make radfeild even more town and hopefully me aswell by extension [4/13/2012 11:46:54 PM] Blazinghand: gotcha [4/13/2012 11:47:04 PM] Blazinghand: i won't respond to your or Rad until morning [4/13/2012 11:47:10 PM] Blazinghand: and D1 [4/13/2012 11:47:13 PM] Blazinghand: I guess I just won't talk [4/13/2012 11:47:15 PM] Blazinghand: since tunkeg will be dead [4/13/2012 11:47:18 PM] Blazinghand: i'll be claimed scum [4/13/2012 11:47:30 PM] Dirkzor: posting time! So fun being scum btw. First time I'm scum btw [4/13/2012 11:47:31 PM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/13/2012 11:47:35 PM] Blazinghand: me too [4/13/2012 11:47:36 PM] Blazinghand: rofl [4/13/2012 11:49:21 PM] Blazinghand: oh at daybreak i'll post one final message [4/13/2012 11:49:23 PM] Blazinghand: "blow me town" [4/13/2012 11:49:28 PM] Dirkzor: hahaha [4/13/2012 11:49:52 PM] Blazinghand: brb [4/13/2012 11:53:22 PM] Blazinghand: btw i'm blazinghand.736 on EU [4/13/2012 11:54:20 PM] Dirkzor: Im.. eh... I dont play [4/13/2012 11:54:27 PM] Blazinghand: oh [4/13/2012 11:54:28 PM] Blazinghand: lol [4/13/2012 11:54:35 PM] Dirkzor: well... very rarely. [4/13/2012 11:54:35 PM] Blazinghand: what brings you by TL, then? [4/13/2012 11:54:46 PM] Dirkzor: SC2 did... but mostly to watch [4/13/2012 11:55:19 PM] Blazinghand: cool [4/13/2012 11:55:23 PM] Blazinghand: i'm watching GSL right now [4/13/2012 11:55:56 PM] Dirkzor: yeah... I would be but i need to post Its going to get a big one [4/14/2012 12:01:23 AM] Blazinghand: another thought is you could support me really hard [4/14/2012 12:01:33 AM] Blazinghand: and then when i claim scum it'll be like "oh hey dirk must be town [4/14/2012 12:01:41 AM] Blazinghand: cause scum would know if tunkeg was gonna die" [4/14/2012 12:01:59 AM] Dirkzor: hmm... [4/14/2012 12:02:05 AM] Dirkzor: maybe [4/14/2012 12:02:49 AM] Dirkzor: I don't know. I just think I want to go into d1 without to much of a reputation. Then I should be able to argue that BL or mattchew is scummy.. [4/14/2012 12:02:55 AM] Blazinghand: true [4/14/2012 12:03:00 AM] Blazinghand: mattchew and BL are both scummy [4/14/2012 12:03:12 AM] Blazinghand: just throwing out another way you could get a little bit of towniness [4/14/2012 12:03:16 AM] Blazinghand: it's sorta a gambit though [4/14/2012 12:03:22 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 12:03:29 AM] Dirkzor: I'll think about while posting =) [4/14/2012 12:50:34 AM] Dirkzor: Okay. Good morning =) (And sorry for drunk posting. Wasn't as bad as other players though )
What I learned from DF2 was keep it simple. What that means here is to resolve the BH/Tunkeg thingy. While Radfields case is making sense I'll try to make my own case and own conclusions.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg first post is solid. It makes sense. But why does he assume the Medic should be on the cop? He was expecting a counterclaim which means the Medic have to choose between the 2 cop claims on who to protect. From a scum perspective it would be fine since they get 25% chance to hit the medic out of the last remaining townies. A medic save besicly wins the game for us. But I get a town feeling from this. It just stood out to me.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
If BH is cop. Why didn't he just claim right here? He already seemed convinced that it was the best choice. (Bolded) He also doesn't mention counter claiming at all. Scenario B will never happen since scum are forced to counter claim. I find it weird that being a cop you would not think about a possible counterclaim. BH also auto assumes that medic will protect the cop - maybe because he didn't think about counter claims at all.
Radfield post his super logic about claim or not to claim and BH instantly claims Cop. It lines up with him having already made up his mind.
On April 14 2012 09:33 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not calling my check beforehand since mafia will just kill who I'm checking. I'll announce my result as soon as D1 starts.
This makes me think BH thought about what being a cop would mean but since it very basic anyone could have brought it up.
Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. But only townies (or insane scum) stay up just to change the course of a game. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town.
Tunkeg and BH goes at eachother. Most post are entirely useless to town. But some stands out:
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
But BH didn't discuss it? His first post he was already dead set on that the Cop should claim and he instant claimed after Radfields post (where Radfield himself was asking for discussion and not just stating: "Do this!")
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield.
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic.
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
I would, if I were cop, go back and read the OP very carefully to fully understand my role. It's weird that Tunkeg assumed he was a role cop. His PM doesn't say and as far as I'm aware alignment cops are the norm? This can be a misunderstanding but it could be a "slip". I don't think we should put much focus on this since we won't know which it is.
To conclude something. Both have done things that I find scummy or "weird-if-town". The biggest point for me is that Tunkeg stayed up. Radfield naiiled when he said that scum is always looking for a reason to NOT be active. Sleeping is the best and most valid reason. I went to bed and I live in the same timezone as Tunkeg. Why wouldn't he do it? Because he know the game revolved around the cop and he was the cop so he HAD to stay up to make a difference. A big scumtell on BH is how he, in his first post, was dead set on claiming. But didn't. Then when Radfield made logic work he claimed. Later he claimed his mindset was to "wait and discuss". His words and actions just didn't add up.
I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote. [4/14/2012 12:50:50 AM] Dirkzor: copy that to TL and read it. Tell me what you think [4/14/2012 12:50:57 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 12:51:02 AM] Dirkzor: (just dont fucking post it LOL) [4/14/2012 12:52:49 AM] Blazinghand: "But only townies (or insane scum) stay up just to change the course of a game" [4/14/2012 12:52:51 AM] Blazinghand: I'd reword this [4/14/2012 12:53:48 AM] Blazinghand: and be like "a scum player wouldn't do this, this is a very bold move, as a town player would make" [4/14/2012 12:53:49 AM] Blazinghand: or something [4/14/2012 12:54:21 AM] Dirkzor: okay.. yeah.. [4/14/2012 12:54:54 AM] Blazinghand: " I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote." [4/14/2012 12:54:56 AM] Blazinghand: this is really good [4/14/2012 12:55:01 AM] Blazinghand: I like that you end with that paragraph [4/14/2012 12:55:07 AM] Blazinghand: overall this is a good post [4/14/2012 12:55:28 AM] Blazinghand: make sure you send it in before palmar triggers day post [4/14/2012 12:55:38 AM] Blazinghand: Day 1 is going to be very short [4/14/2012 12:55:42 AM] Blazinghand: i'll probably get instahammered [4/14/2012 12:55:46 AM] Blazinghand: btw [4/14/2012 12:55:54 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 12:55:58 AM] Blazinghand: make sure you vote for me as soon as tunkeg flips cop [4/14/2012 12:56:02 AM] Blazinghand: or at lest, quickly [4/14/2012 12:56:05 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 12:56:18 AM] Dirkzor: Who do you tihnk is the medic? [4/14/2012 12:56:26 AM] Blazinghand: hmmmmm [4/14/2012 12:56:27 AM] Dirkzor: if I could hit him n1 it would be insane [4/14/2012 12:56:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah if you hit the medic n1 we're in a good shape [4/14/2012 12:57:26 AM] Blazinghand: in any case, once i'm hammered I can't help you any more [4/14/2012 12:57:30 AM] Blazinghand: i'll become an observer [4/14/2012 12:57:36 AM] Blazinghand: bluelightz typically is quiet [4/14/2012 12:57:50 AM] Dirkzor: good for me. [4/14/2012 12:57:55 AM] Dirkzor: should be lynchable =) [4/14/2012 12:58:03 AM] Dirkzor: Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. [4/14/2012 12:58:07 AM] Blazinghand: I dont' think Radfield is the medic [4/14/2012 12:58:09 AM] Dirkzor: re-wrote it [4/14/2012 12:58:14 AM] Blazinghand: I think he'd be more quiet about his scum reads as the medic [4/14/2012 12:58:57 AM] Blazinghand: WBG might be [4/14/2012 12:59:33 AM] Dirkzor: its hard [4/14/2012 1:00:07 AM] Blazinghand: I like this new paragraph [4/14/2012 1:00:18 AM] Dirkzor: posted [4/14/2012 1:00:21 AM] Blazinghand: so i mean, as available "could be the medic" people [4/14/2012 1:00:27 AM] Blazinghand: we've got BL, JW, Rad, WBG [4/14/2012 1:00:31 AM] Blazinghand: Rad seems too aggressive [4/14/2012 1:00:36 AM] Blazinghand: I wouldn't shoot BL [4/14/2012 1:00:41 AM] Blazinghand: because he's good to keep around [4/14/2012 1:00:41 AM] Blazinghand: as a mislynch [4/14/2012 1:00:45 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 1:00:52 AM] Dirkzor: mattchew aswell [4/14/2012 1:00:57 AM] Dirkzor: with his stupid vote thingy [4/14/2012 1:00:58 AM] Blazinghand: oh I forgot about mattchew [4/14/2012 1:01:01 AM] Blazinghand: wait [4/14/2012 1:01:06 AM] Blazinghand: i thought the player loist was [4/14/2012 1:01:11 AM] Blazinghand: BL, JW, Rad, Tunkeg, WBG, you, me [4/14/2012 1:01:37 AM] Blazinghand: 7 players [4/14/2012 1:02:23 AM] Blazinghand: so I'd say, keep BL around as mislynch material [4/14/2012 1:02:23 AM] Dirkzor: it is lol [4/14/2012 1:02:37 AM] Dirkzor: everytime I'd written mattchew I meant johnnywup [4/14/2012 1:02:39 AM] Blazinghand: ah [4/14/2012 1:02:40 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 1:02:45 AM] Blazinghand: yeah, the big thing is [4/14/2012 1:02:48 AM] Blazinghand: if you can't tell who the medic is [4/14/2012 1:02:51 AM] Blazinghand: shoot JW [4/14/2012 1:02:58 AM] Blazinghand: I THINK WBG is the medic [4/14/2012 1:03:01 AM] Blazinghand: that's what my gut says [4/14/2012 1:03:10 AM] Blazinghand: but if WBG isn't the medic, the medic may be protecting him [4/14/2012 1:03:16 AM] Blazinghand: the medic will definitely protect him or radfield [4/14/2012 1:03:26 AM] Dirkzor: Think it will be rad who protected [4/14/2012 1:03:34 AM] Dirkzor: every night [4/14/2012 1:03:35 AM] Blazinghand: yeah rad will have a lot of town cred after i flip [4/14/2012 1:03:40 AM] Blazinghand: and i dont' think rad is medic [4/14/2012 1:03:42 AM] Blazinghand: so [4/14/2012 1:03:46 AM] Dirkzor: agree [4/14/2012 1:03:53 AM] Blazinghand: shooting WBG is probablyt he right move [4/14/2012 1:03:57 AM] Blazinghand: and JW and BL are both weak players [4/14/2012 1:04:02 AM] Blazinghand: making it hard to lynch you [4/14/2012 1:04:05 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 1:04:36 AM] Dirkzor: I think the ranking would be: rad WBG Me/Johnny BL
in how good they are perceived [4/14/2012 1:05:04 AM] Blazinghand: sounds about right [4/14/2012 1:05:09 AM | Edited 1:05:13 AM] Blazinghand: JW will look bad after i flip [4/14/2012 1:05:38 AM] Dirkzor: Yeah. I'll push the thought about him basicly bussing you because he knew Tunkeg would die [4/14/2012 1:05:59 AM] Blazinghand: sounds like a good plan [4/14/2012 1:06:15 AM] Dirkzor: This is very interesting =) [4/14/2012 1:06:19 AM] Blazinghand: it's a fun setup [4/14/2012 1:06:21 AM] Blazinghand: very fast-paced [4/14/2012 1:06:31 AM] Dirkzor: hehe yeah :D [4/14/2012 1:09:20 AM] Dirkzor: And now: GSL! [4/14/2012 1:09:32 AM] Dirkzor: Naniwa made it trough!!! WOO! Did he play well? [4/14/2012 1:09:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah [4/14/2012 1:09:39 AM] Dirkzor: I was at work so couldn't watch [4/14/2012 1:09:51 AM] Blazinghand: i think the vod of game 1 is free [4/14/2012 1:10:10 AM] Blazinghand: I hope naniwa makes it to the Ro8 [4/14/2012 1:10:32 AM] Dirkzor: yeah.. Would be insane.. But i think he needs a PvP to do it... [4/14/2012 1:11:15 AM] Blazinghand: it really depends who's in his group in the 2nd group stages [4/14/2012 1:12:26 AM] Blazinghand: MC vs Inca happening atm [4/14/2012 1:12:40 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 1:13:48 AM] Dirkzor: i love pvp... so much action =) [4/14/2012 2:10:09 AM] Blazinghand: daybreak in about 30 minutes [4/14/2012 2:10:24 AM] Dirkzor: aye [4/14/2012 2:46:15 AM] Dirkzor: any thoughts about WBG now that he posted a bit? [4/14/2012 2:47:03 AM] Blazinghand: i mean, i have a townread on him [4/14/2012 2:47:13 AM] Dirkzor: obviously [4/14/2012 2:47:36 AM] Blazinghand: he's being very "town" [4/14/2012 2:47:43 AM] Blazinghand: I think he's not the medic [4/14/2012 2:47:44 AM] Blazinghand: and he anticipates being protected [4/14/2012 2:48:26 AM] Dirkzor: damn... I don't want the medic to be BL or Johnny. If they are and I try to get one of them lynched I have to counter claim [4/14/2012 2:49:55 AM] Blazinghand: " Well, I don't have the experience nor confidence to take that decision straight from the get go" -tunkeg [4/14/2012 2:50:00 AM] Blazinghand: man [4/14/2012 2:50:02 AM] Blazinghand: mannnn [4/14/2012 2:50:06 AM] Blazinghand: tunkeg playing such a bad cop [4/14/2012 2:50:15 AM] Dirkzor: hehe =) [4/14/2012 2:50:34 AM] Dirkzor: I'm sure if I should point out he is playing the newbie card.. [4/14/2012 2:51:22 AM] Blazinghand: remember he's gonna flip in like 5 minutes [4/14/2012 2:51:35 AM] Dirkzor: yeah... But i dont know that [4/14/2012 2:52:29 AM] Dirkzor: I'll just stop posting.. I came out of n0 looking town i think. I made a good case, pushed discussion and with no bias... [4/14/2012 2:52:54 AM] Blazinghand: at this point [4/14/2012 2:52:58 AM] Blazinghand: just stay silent until the flip [4/14/2012 2:54:34 AM] Dirkzor: SUPER! [4/14/2012 2:54:44 AM] Dirkzor: he just pointed me out as a town read [4/14/2012 2:56:29 AM] Blazinghand: nice [4/14/2012 2:56:48 AM] Blazinghand: so you and Rad are basically gonna have a lot of town cred [4/14/2012 2:56:55 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 2:57:31 AM] Dirkzor: If i can just keep this going town have to lynch into WBG/BL/Johnny. I just hope our night kills goes through. [4/14/2012 2:57:47 AM] Blazinghand: it's pretty unlikely tunkeg got protected [4/14/2012 2:57:54 AM] Blazinghand: if he did, medic will claim and i'll get lynched D1 like normal [4/14/2012 2:58:03 AM] Blazinghand: and you'll have to shoot the medic N1 [4/14/2012 2:58:05 AM] Dirkzor: yeah... radfield pointed it out aswell as a "bad" option for scum [4/14/2012 3:09:28 AM] Dirkzor: hahaha [4/14/2012 3:09:34 AM] Dirkzor: I laughed when I saw your post [4/14/2012 3:12:07 AM] Dirkzor: GG mate! Good claim. One of us had to do it at some point =) [4/14/2012 3:12:13 AM] Blazinghand: um [4/14/2012 3:12:15 AM] Blazinghand: just vote me now [4/14/2012 3:12:16 AM] Blazinghand: imo [4/14/2012 3:12:25 AM] Blazinghand: like [4/14/2012 3:12:31 AM] Blazinghand: no real discussion can happenw hile i'm alive [4/14/2012 3:14:30 AM] Dirkzor: Thats just not me. I'm trying to play this as I would as town. The others will vote you no worries... [4/14/2012 3:15:22 AM] Blazinghand: kk [4/14/2012 3:20:17 AM] Dirkzor: cluttering the thread is fine =) [4/14/2012 3:23:49 AM] Dirkzor:
On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is?
Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum.
Only me that finds this suspecious? [4/14/2012 3:23:52 AM] Dirkzor: good or bad post? [4/14/2012 3:28:19 AM] Blazinghand: WBG's question is definitely suspicious [4/14/2012 3:28:24 AM] Blazinghand: calling him out for it is reasonable [4/14/2012 3:28:30 AM] Blazinghand: that being said [4/14/2012 3:28:36 AM] Blazinghand: the 2nd scum is now aq good thing to talk about [4/14/2012 3:28:40 AM] Blazinghand: like, as of tunkeg's flip [4/14/2012 3:28:46 AM] Blazinghand: so specficy that the question was bad then [4/14/2012 3:28:47 AM] Blazinghand: but good now [4/14/2012 3:28:53 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 3:28:54 AM] Blazinghand: and that asking it back then is what scum would do [4/14/2012 3:28:57 AM] Blazinghand: asking it NOW is what town does [4/14/2012 3:30:34 AM] Dirkzor:
On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is?
Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum.
Only me that finds this suspicious?
I mean asking this after we have confirmed BH as scum is the next logical step towards winning this, but asking before the flip?! Just doesn't seem very townie-like to do... [4/14/2012 3:30:42 AM] Dirkzor: bolded the before in the first sentence aswell [4/14/2012 3:31:00 AM] Blazinghand: sounds good [4/14/2012 3:31:01 AM] Blazinghand: do it [4/14/2012 3:34:34 AM] Dirkzor: whatever medic tell you find just post it to me here. I'll make up my mind later if I want to try and kill the medic or whoever is less likely to be protected and not someone I can get a mislynch on [4/14/2012 3:36:16 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 3:36:21 AM] Blazinghand: i'm probably dead pretty soon [4/14/2012 3:36:25 AM] Blazinghand: after which i won't be able to help you any more [4/14/2012 3:36:48 AM] Dirkzor: thats why you should post just when you find them... :D (ofc stop when you die. No cheating! ) [4/14/2012 3:37:10 AM] Dirkzor: BL could be the medic. Why would he talk about that the medic protected BH... [4/14/2012 3:37:14 AM] Dirkzor: makes no sense [4/14/2012 3:37:18 AM] Dirkzor: but then again BL never makes sense [4/14/2012 3:37:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah i wouldn't consider that a medic tell from BL [4/14/2012 3:37:42 AM] Blazinghand: he's unreadable to me [4/14/2012 3:40:57 AM] Dirkzor: lol BL called me town. [4/14/2012 3:58:09 AM] Blazinghand: dude BL is burying himself [4/14/2012 3:58:10 AM] Blazinghand: this is great [4/14/2012 3:58:13 AM] Blazinghand: just let him interact with wBG [4/14/2012 4:02:15 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 4:02:50 AM] Dirkzor: i'll be away for 30 in or so... Have to get some food. [4/14/2012 4:02:53 AM] Blazinghand: kk [4/14/2012 4:03:03 AM] Blazinghand: i don't really know what i'm doing in the thread [4/14/2012 4:03:11 AM] Blazinghand: rofl [4/14/2012 4:03:16 AM] Dirkzor: you're just fucking it up thats what... and its good fun :D [4/14/2012 4:09:26 AM] Blazinghand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827¤tpage=10#197 [4/14/2012 4:09:27 AM] Blazinghand: ROFL [4/14/2012 4:09:32 AM] Blazinghand: this is so good [4/14/2012 4:11:45 AM] Dirkzor: Rad think I'm town too... He doesn't mention me at all.. [4/14/2012 4:11:49 AM] Dirkzor: Well shopping brb [4/14/2012 4:12:09 AM] Blazinghand: kk
I thought for sure we'd get a bh paint pic for this... Also wanted to make the last pic Viking palmar with arnold's head on his sword but I left class early to get the post up
On April 18 2012 04:17 johnnywup wrote: No questions for you I just want to know BL's explanation. I doubt anything he can say will change my mind on him being scum though
I can understand the need for answer from BL, but if you don't really think he can provide an answer that turn you around can you just vote now so we can celebrate?
this made me think dirk was scummy as shit but I STILL couldn't see him being more scummy than BL. It was so fucking scummy i was about to vote dirk right then but the townies that died said BL was probably scum so that's in the end why I voted. I didn't trust myself
BL, how can you post oneliners and baseless arguments and expect me to think you're town. last day you put some effort but even then your arguments depended on you being town which i obviously didnt think you were.
I just read some IRC log where, I think you were in it johnny, and it came down to a 2v1 and someone was screaming that town never votes first in a 2v1... or at least shouldn't. That was something that had me leaning Dirkzor too.
that post i just quoted made me want to vote dirk but i couldn't because of everything else he did to 'help', and the lack BL did. He was trying to rush me to make the wrong decision, I saw and understood that, but I couldn't bring myself to think BL was town at the time with his lack of effort up till last day. I know it was a reasonable choice to lynch BL in my position but I feel like I could have made right one.
It was by request. I posted the mafia chat above for those who are interested. I must say, dirkzor was the right choice between the two of us to play the long game. Good work!
reposted here for reference:
On April 18 2012 08:32 Blazinghand wrote: Scum convo:
[4/13/2012 11:20:20 PM] Blazinghand: yo [4/13/2012 11:20:22 PM] Blazinghand: so i claimed cop [4/13/2012 11:20:24 PM] Dirkzor: Hi there! [4/13/2012 11:20:26 PM] Dirkzor: Dirk here [4/13/2012 11:20:29 PM] Dirkzor: yeah i saw [4/13/2012 11:20:30 PM] Blazinghand: since the cop claim was inevitable [4/13/2012 11:20:39 PM] Dirkzor: yeha. one of us had to do it [4/13/2012 11:20:43 PM] Blazinghand: who should we shoot? [4/13/2012 11:20:49 PM] Dirkzor: still reading last page now Just woke up [4/13/2012 11:20:58 PM] Blazinghand: kk [4/13/2012 11:21:15 PM] Blazinghand: i'm considering johnnywup because he supported me [4/13/2012 11:21:32 PM] Dirkzor: Right now we should shoot WBG i think. Radfield is making ton of sense but I don't think he is a blue. and the blue wins this game [4/13/2012 11:21:36 PM] Blazinghand: ok [4/13/2012 11:21:42 PM] Blazinghand: i'll PM Palm [4/13/2012 11:21:49 PM] Dirkzor: wait we have time [4/13/2012 11:21:56 PM] Dirkzor: let me read the rest first and post =) [4/13/2012 11:22:02 PM] Blazinghand: ok [4/13/2012 11:22:03 PM] Blazinghand: I sent in the JW shot already [4/13/2012 11:22:06 PM] Blazinghand: so i'm gonna change it [4/13/2012 11:22:12 PM] Blazinghand: just because WBG sounds smarter [4/13/2012 11:22:17 PM] Dirkzor: let it stay for now [4/13/2012 11:22:19 PM] Blazinghand: oh ok [4/13/2012 11:22:31 PM] Dirkzor: what the time in your zone now? [4/13/2012 11:22:35 PM] Blazinghand: 11:20 pm [4/13/2012 11:22:40 PM] Blazinghand: i'll be up for another 3-4 hours [4/13/2012 11:22:45 PM] Dirkzor: ok [4/13/2012 11:22:46 PM] Dirkzor: super [4/13/2012 11:23:54 PM] Blazinghand: N0 is only 12 hours btw [4/13/2012 11:24:09 PM] Dirkzor: yeah.. 3½ h left [4/13/2012 11:28:44 PM] Dirkzor: hmm. YOu're dead =) [4/13/2012 11:28:59 PM] Blazinghand: should we just shoot tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:29:37 PM] Dirkzor: I was thinking about it. That way town don't get to me by being lucky and they dont get anymore confirmed towns by way of him checking. [4/13/2012 11:29:55 PM] Dirkzor: But i just have to think it through. I bus/vote you d1 [4/13/2012 11:30:11 PM] Blazinghand: yeah I mean there is another option right [4/13/2012 11:30:14 PM] Blazinghand: shoot a townie [4/13/2012 11:30:19 PM] Blazinghand: and you just buddy up to tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:31:32 PM] Dirkzor: hmm... Right now tunkeg won't ever check radfield. [4/13/2012 11:31:40 PM] Blazinghand: right [4/13/2012 11:31:50 PM] Blazinghand: I think he's gonna check JW [4/13/2012 11:31:55 PM] Blazinghand: which is why i want to shoot JW [4/13/2012 11:31:55 PM] Dirkzor: or BL [4/13/2012 11:32:14 PM] Blazinghand: if we can shoot whoever he's checking [4/13/2012 11:32:21 PM] Blazinghand: he'll look very bad [4/13/2012 11:33:04 PM] Dirkzor: yeah. But do you want to risk it? [4/13/2012 11:33:28 PM] Dirkzor: I would rather end up with a scenario like this: [4/13/2012 11:34:42 PM] Dirkzor: n0: Shoot tunkeg d1: Lynch you N1: Shoot whoever i think is medic (or the most townie). Medic have 25% to save. d2: 4 players alive. LYLO. no one confirmed. [4/13/2012 11:35:03 PM] Blazinghand: the good news is we go into D2 with no good discussion happening [4/13/2012 11:35:03 PM] Dirkzor: With me BL and mattchew is should be able to come out alive [4/13/2012 11:35:13 PM] Blazinghand: ok, I agree with this plan [4/13/2012 11:35:19 PM] Blazinghand: i'll change the shot to tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:35:36 PM] Dirkzor: But it all depends on if we want to get lucky now or lucky later [4/13/2012 11:36:04 PM] Blazinghand: if we dont' shoot tunkeg though,a nd I get lynched D1 [4/13/2012 11:36:05 PM] Dirkzor: we have to dodge 2 medics with my plan (tonight and night1) or get lucky and kill the right dude to night [4/13/2012 11:36:21 PM] Blazinghand: we're looking at 3 confirmed town players D2 [4/13/2012 11:36:25 PM] Blazinghand: unless we shoot one of them of course [4/13/2012 11:36:40 PM] Blazinghand: if Radfield hasn't made his case I'd say we shoot JW [4/13/2012 11:36:46 PM] Blazinghand: but after the Radfield case it might be better just to shoot tunkeg [4/13/2012 11:38:32 PM] Dirkzor: another scenario: we shoot JW. Tunk checked BL. d1: You get lynched (most likely). Now there are 2 confirmed. n1: I shoot either BL (can't shoot Tunkeg due to the medic) [4/13/2012 11:38:56 PM] Dirkzor: d2: Ends with me, rad, wbg, tunkeg at lylo. 2 confirmed. [4/13/2012 11:39:16 PM] Blazinghand: then it's basically you vs the other unconfirmed guy [4/13/2012 11:39:20 PM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/13/2012 11:39:36 PM] Blazinghand: if tunkeg checked JW though, then we have a strong chance D1 [4/13/2012 11:40:03 PM] Blazinghand: the real question is how confident we are that tunkeg is going to check JW [4/13/2012 11:40:44 PM] Dirkzor: Not very good. WBG havent posted anything usefull yet. Mattchew is being an idiot. BL is spewing nonsense and I havent even posted [4/13/2012 11:40:53 PM] Dirkzor: so he have reason to check any of the 4 [4/13/2012 11:41:14 PM] Dirkzor: If i start posting sense (which i should soon) that leaves maybe only 3 [4/13/2012 11:41:40 PM] Blazinghand: tunkeg is asleep though [4/13/2012 11:41:43 PM] Dirkzor: But will medic protect Tunkeg n0? [4/13/2012 11:41:44 PM] Blazinghand: he probably already sent in his check [4/13/2012 11:41:53 PM] Blazinghand: medic MIGHT protect tunkeg n0 [4/13/2012 11:41:55 PM] Blazinghand: but that's a huge risk [4/13/2012 11:42:06 PM] Blazinghand: because... if tunkeg is scum [4/13/2012 11:42:13 PM] Dirkzor: yeah.. [4/13/2012 11:42:22 PM] Blazinghand: and we're expected to shoot into the VTs looking for the medic [4/13/2012 11:42:32 PM] Dirkzor: I think we should kill Tunkeg. [4/13/2012 11:42:39 PM] Blazinghand: I think so as well [4/13/2012 11:42:42 PM] Blazinghand: I'll send in the shot. [4/13/2012 11:43:17 PM] Dirkzor: problem is medic will protect rad/WBG night1 and I don't want those guys at LYLO :D But thats my problem I guess. [4/13/2012 11:44:08 PM] Blazinghand: very well [4/13/2012 11:44:11 PM] Blazinghand: I have pmed Palmar [4/13/2012 11:44:33 PM] Blazinghand: at this point I think i'm just gonna be silent until daybreak unless you need me to bus or something [4/13/2012 11:45:18 PM] Dirkzor: good. Don't bus today. It will be obvious once Tunkeg dies that you as scum would be anti his team mate. [4/13/2012 11:45:35 PM] Dirkzor: So basicly doing nothing leaves be pretty neutral so they can't find me through you [4/13/2012 11:45:42 PM] Dirkzor: leaves me* [4/13/2012 11:45:49 PM] Blazinghand: gotcha [4/13/2012 11:46:41 PM] Dirkzor: But I will be leaning you as scum and support radfeilds case. That will make radfeild even more town and hopefully me aswell by extension [4/13/2012 11:46:54 PM] Blazinghand: gotcha [4/13/2012 11:47:04 PM] Blazinghand: i won't respond to your or Rad until morning [4/13/2012 11:47:10 PM] Blazinghand: and D1 [4/13/2012 11:47:13 PM] Blazinghand: I guess I just won't talk [4/13/2012 11:47:15 PM] Blazinghand: since tunkeg will be dead [4/13/2012 11:47:18 PM] Blazinghand: i'll be claimed scum [4/13/2012 11:47:30 PM] Dirkzor: posting time! So fun being scum btw. First time I'm scum btw [4/13/2012 11:47:31 PM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/13/2012 11:47:35 PM] Blazinghand: me too [4/13/2012 11:47:36 PM] Blazinghand: rofl [4/13/2012 11:49:21 PM] Blazinghand: oh at daybreak i'll post one final message [4/13/2012 11:49:23 PM] Blazinghand: "blow me town" [4/13/2012 11:49:28 PM] Dirkzor: hahaha [4/13/2012 11:49:52 PM] Blazinghand: brb [4/13/2012 11:53:22 PM] Blazinghand: btw i'm blazinghand.736 on EU [4/13/2012 11:54:20 PM] Dirkzor: Im.. eh... I dont play [4/13/2012 11:54:27 PM] Blazinghand: oh [4/13/2012 11:54:28 PM] Blazinghand: lol [4/13/2012 11:54:35 PM] Dirkzor: well... very rarely. [4/13/2012 11:54:35 PM] Blazinghand: what brings you by TL, then? [4/13/2012 11:54:46 PM] Dirkzor: SC2 did... but mostly to watch [4/13/2012 11:55:19 PM] Blazinghand: cool [4/13/2012 11:55:23 PM] Blazinghand: i'm watching GSL right now [4/13/2012 11:55:56 PM] Dirkzor: yeah... I would be but i need to post Its going to get a big one [4/14/2012 12:01:23 AM] Blazinghand: another thought is you could support me really hard [4/14/2012 12:01:33 AM] Blazinghand: and then when i claim scum it'll be like "oh hey dirk must be town [4/14/2012 12:01:41 AM] Blazinghand: cause scum would know if tunkeg was gonna die" [4/14/2012 12:01:59 AM] Dirkzor: hmm... [4/14/2012 12:02:05 AM] Dirkzor: maybe [4/14/2012 12:02:49 AM] Dirkzor: I don't know. I just think I want to go into d1 without to much of a reputation. Then I should be able to argue that BL or mattchew is scummy.. [4/14/2012 12:02:55 AM] Blazinghand: true [4/14/2012 12:03:00 AM] Blazinghand: mattchew and BL are both scummy [4/14/2012 12:03:12 AM] Blazinghand: just throwing out another way you could get a little bit of towniness [4/14/2012 12:03:16 AM] Blazinghand: it's sorta a gambit though [4/14/2012 12:03:22 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 12:03:29 AM] Dirkzor: I'll think about while posting =) [4/14/2012 12:50:34 AM] Dirkzor: Okay. Good morning =) (And sorry for drunk posting. Wasn't as bad as other players though )
What I learned from DF2 was keep it simple. What that means here is to resolve the BH/Tunkeg thingy. While Radfields case is making sense I'll try to make my own case and own conclusions.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg first post is solid. It makes sense. But why does he assume the Medic should be on the cop? He was expecting a counterclaim which means the Medic have to choose between the 2 cop claims on who to protect. From a scum perspective it would be fine since they get 25% chance to hit the medic out of the last remaining townies. A medic save besicly wins the game for us. But I get a town feeling from this. It just stood out to me.
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote: So this have been churning in my mind all day:
COP CLAIM.
Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:
Pros: 1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.
1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt. 1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.
2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.
3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.
Cons.
1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).
2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.
3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.
So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.
Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.
That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.
Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind. Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.
I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.
If BH is cop. Why didn't he just claim right here? He already seemed convinced that it was the best choice. (Bolded) He also doesn't mention counter claiming at all. Scenario B will never happen since scum are forced to counter claim. I find it weird that being a cop you would not think about a possible counterclaim. BH also auto assumes that medic will protect the cop - maybe because he didn't think about counter claims at all.
Radfield post his super logic about claim or not to claim and BH instantly claims Cop. It lines up with him having already made up his mind.
On April 14 2012 09:33 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not calling my check beforehand since mafia will just kill who I'm checking. I'll announce my result as soon as D1 starts.
This makes me think BH thought about what being a cop would mean but since it very basic anyone could have brought it up.
Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. But only townies (or insane scum) stay up just to change the course of a game. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town.
Tunkeg and BH goes at eachother. Most post are entirely useless to town. But some stands out:
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
But BH didn't discuss it? His first post he was already dead set on that the Cop should claim and he instant claimed after Radfields post (where Radfield himself was asking for discussion and not just stating: "Do this!")
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D
See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."
Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:
"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".
I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?
Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?
Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield.
Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.
Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic.
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote: Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.
That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...
I would, if I were cop, go back and read the OP very carefully to fully understand my role. It's weird that Tunkeg assumed he was a role cop. His PM doesn't say and as far as I'm aware alignment cops are the norm? This can be a misunderstanding but it could be a "slip". I don't think we should put much focus on this since we won't know which it is.
To conclude something. Both have done things that I find scummy or "weird-if-town". The biggest point for me is that Tunkeg stayed up. Radfield naiiled when he said that scum is always looking for a reason to NOT be active. Sleeping is the best and most valid reason. I went to bed and I live in the same timezone as Tunkeg. Why wouldn't he do it? Because he know the game revolved around the cop and he was the cop so he HAD to stay up to make a difference. A big scumtell on BH is how he, in his first post, was dead set on claiming. But didn't. Then when Radfield made logic work he claimed. Later he claimed his mindset was to "wait and discuss". His words and actions just didn't add up.
I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote. [4/14/2012 12:50:50 AM] Dirkzor: copy that to TL and read it. Tell me what you think [4/14/2012 12:50:57 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 12:51:02 AM] Dirkzor: (just dont fucking post it LOL) [4/14/2012 12:52:49 AM] Blazinghand: "But only townies (or insane scum) stay up just to change the course of a game" [4/14/2012 12:52:51 AM] Blazinghand: I'd reword this [4/14/2012 12:53:48 AM] Blazinghand: and be like "a scum player wouldn't do this, this is a very bold move, as a town player would make" [4/14/2012 12:53:49 AM] Blazinghand: or something [4/14/2012 12:54:21 AM] Dirkzor: okay.. yeah.. [4/14/2012 12:54:54 AM] Blazinghand: " I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote." [4/14/2012 12:54:56 AM] Blazinghand: this is really good [4/14/2012 12:55:01 AM] Blazinghand: I like that you end with that paragraph [4/14/2012 12:55:07 AM] Blazinghand: overall this is a good post [4/14/2012 12:55:28 AM] Blazinghand: make sure you send it in before palmar triggers day post [4/14/2012 12:55:38 AM] Blazinghand: Day 1 is going to be very short [4/14/2012 12:55:42 AM] Blazinghand: i'll probably get instahammered [4/14/2012 12:55:46 AM] Blazinghand: btw [4/14/2012 12:55:54 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 12:55:58 AM] Blazinghand: make sure you vote for me as soon as tunkeg flips cop [4/14/2012 12:56:02 AM] Blazinghand: or at lest, quickly [4/14/2012 12:56:05 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 12:56:18 AM] Dirkzor: Who do you tihnk is the medic? [4/14/2012 12:56:26 AM] Blazinghand: hmmmmm [4/14/2012 12:56:27 AM] Dirkzor: if I could hit him n1 it would be insane [4/14/2012 12:56:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah if you hit the medic n1 we're in a good shape [4/14/2012 12:57:26 AM] Blazinghand: in any case, once i'm hammered I can't help you any more [4/14/2012 12:57:30 AM] Blazinghand: i'll become an observer [4/14/2012 12:57:36 AM] Blazinghand: bluelightz typically is quiet [4/14/2012 12:57:50 AM] Dirkzor: good for me. [4/14/2012 12:57:55 AM] Dirkzor: should be lynchable =) [4/14/2012 12:58:03 AM] Dirkzor: Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. [4/14/2012 12:58:07 AM] Blazinghand: I dont' think Radfield is the medic [4/14/2012 12:58:09 AM] Dirkzor: re-wrote it [4/14/2012 12:58:14 AM] Blazinghand: I think he'd be more quiet about his scum reads as the medic [4/14/2012 12:58:57 AM] Blazinghand: WBG might be [4/14/2012 12:59:33 AM] Dirkzor: its hard [4/14/2012 1:00:07 AM] Blazinghand: I like this new paragraph [4/14/2012 1:00:18 AM] Dirkzor: posted [4/14/2012 1:00:21 AM] Blazinghand: so i mean, as available "could be the medic" people [4/14/2012 1:00:27 AM] Blazinghand: we've got BL, JW, Rad, WBG [4/14/2012 1:00:31 AM] Blazinghand: Rad seems too aggressive [4/14/2012 1:00:36 AM] Blazinghand: I wouldn't shoot BL [4/14/2012 1:00:41 AM] Blazinghand: because he's good to keep around [4/14/2012 1:00:41 AM] Blazinghand: as a mislynch [4/14/2012 1:00:45 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 1:00:52 AM] Dirkzor: mattchew aswell [4/14/2012 1:00:57 AM] Dirkzor: with his stupid vote thingy [4/14/2012 1:00:58 AM] Blazinghand: oh I forgot about mattchew [4/14/2012 1:01:01 AM] Blazinghand: wait [4/14/2012 1:01:06 AM] Blazinghand: i thought the player loist was [4/14/2012 1:01:11 AM] Blazinghand: BL, JW, Rad, Tunkeg, WBG, you, me [4/14/2012 1:01:37 AM] Blazinghand: 7 players [4/14/2012 1:02:23 AM] Blazinghand: so I'd say, keep BL around as mislynch material [4/14/2012 1:02:23 AM] Dirkzor: it is lol [4/14/2012 1:02:37 AM] Dirkzor: everytime I'd written mattchew I meant johnnywup [4/14/2012 1:02:39 AM] Blazinghand: ah [4/14/2012 1:02:40 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 1:02:45 AM] Blazinghand: yeah, the big thing is [4/14/2012 1:02:48 AM] Blazinghand: if you can't tell who the medic is [4/14/2012 1:02:51 AM] Blazinghand: shoot JW [4/14/2012 1:02:58 AM] Blazinghand: I THINK WBG is the medic [4/14/2012 1:03:01 AM] Blazinghand: that's what my gut says [4/14/2012 1:03:10 AM] Blazinghand: but if WBG isn't the medic, the medic may be protecting him [4/14/2012 1:03:16 AM] Blazinghand: the medic will definitely protect him or radfield [4/14/2012 1:03:26 AM] Dirkzor: Think it will be rad who protected [4/14/2012 1:03:34 AM] Dirkzor: every night [4/14/2012 1:03:35 AM] Blazinghand: yeah rad will have a lot of town cred after i flip [4/14/2012 1:03:40 AM] Blazinghand: and i dont' think rad is medic [4/14/2012 1:03:42 AM] Blazinghand: so [4/14/2012 1:03:46 AM] Dirkzor: agree [4/14/2012 1:03:53 AM] Blazinghand: shooting WBG is probablyt he right move [4/14/2012 1:03:57 AM] Blazinghand: and JW and BL are both weak players [4/14/2012 1:04:02 AM] Blazinghand: making it hard to lynch you [4/14/2012 1:04:05 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 1:04:36 AM] Dirkzor: I think the ranking would be: rad WBG Me/Johnny BL
in how good they are perceived [4/14/2012 1:05:04 AM] Blazinghand: sounds about right [4/14/2012 1:05:09 AM | Edited 1:05:13 AM] Blazinghand: JW will look bad after i flip [4/14/2012 1:05:38 AM] Dirkzor: Yeah. I'll push the thought about him basicly bussing you because he knew Tunkeg would die [4/14/2012 1:05:59 AM] Blazinghand: sounds like a good plan [4/14/2012 1:06:15 AM] Dirkzor: This is very interesting =) [4/14/2012 1:06:19 AM] Blazinghand: it's a fun setup [4/14/2012 1:06:21 AM] Blazinghand: very fast-paced [4/14/2012 1:06:31 AM] Dirkzor: hehe yeah :D [4/14/2012 1:09:20 AM] Dirkzor: And now: GSL! [4/14/2012 1:09:32 AM] Dirkzor: Naniwa made it trough!!! WOO! Did he play well? [4/14/2012 1:09:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah [4/14/2012 1:09:39 AM] Dirkzor: I was at work so couldn't watch [4/14/2012 1:09:51 AM] Blazinghand: i think the vod of game 1 is free [4/14/2012 1:10:10 AM] Blazinghand: I hope naniwa makes it to the Ro8 [4/14/2012 1:10:32 AM] Dirkzor: yeah.. Would be insane.. But i think he needs a PvP to do it... [4/14/2012 1:11:15 AM] Blazinghand: it really depends who's in his group in the 2nd group stages [4/14/2012 1:12:26 AM] Blazinghand: MC vs Inca happening atm [4/14/2012 1:12:40 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 1:13:48 AM] Dirkzor: i love pvp... so much action =) [4/14/2012 2:10:09 AM] Blazinghand: daybreak in about 30 minutes [4/14/2012 2:10:24 AM] Dirkzor: aye [4/14/2012 2:46:15 AM] Dirkzor: any thoughts about WBG now that he posted a bit? [4/14/2012 2:47:03 AM] Blazinghand: i mean, i have a townread on him [4/14/2012 2:47:13 AM] Dirkzor: obviously [4/14/2012 2:47:36 AM] Blazinghand: he's being very "town" [4/14/2012 2:47:43 AM] Blazinghand: I think he's not the medic [4/14/2012 2:47:44 AM] Blazinghand: and he anticipates being protected [4/14/2012 2:48:26 AM] Dirkzor: damn... I don't want the medic to be BL or Johnny. If they are and I try to get one of them lynched I have to counter claim [4/14/2012 2:49:55 AM] Blazinghand: " Well, I don't have the experience nor confidence to take that decision straight from the get go" -tunkeg [4/14/2012 2:50:00 AM] Blazinghand: man [4/14/2012 2:50:02 AM] Blazinghand: mannnn [4/14/2012 2:50:06 AM] Blazinghand: tunkeg playing such a bad cop [4/14/2012 2:50:15 AM] Dirkzor: hehe =) [4/14/2012 2:50:34 AM] Dirkzor: I'm sure if I should point out he is playing the newbie card.. [4/14/2012 2:51:22 AM] Blazinghand: remember he's gonna flip in like 5 minutes [4/14/2012 2:51:35 AM] Dirkzor: yeah... But i dont know that [4/14/2012 2:52:29 AM] Dirkzor: I'll just stop posting.. I came out of n0 looking town i think. I made a good case, pushed discussion and with no bias... [4/14/2012 2:52:54 AM] Blazinghand: at this point [4/14/2012 2:52:58 AM] Blazinghand: just stay silent until the flip [4/14/2012 2:54:34 AM] Dirkzor: SUPER! [4/14/2012 2:54:44 AM] Dirkzor: he just pointed me out as a town read [4/14/2012 2:56:29 AM] Blazinghand: nice [4/14/2012 2:56:48 AM] Blazinghand: so you and Rad are basically gonna have a lot of town cred [4/14/2012 2:56:55 AM] Dirkzor: mm [4/14/2012 2:57:31 AM] Dirkzor: If i can just keep this going town have to lynch into WBG/BL/Johnny. I just hope our night kills goes through. [4/14/2012 2:57:47 AM] Blazinghand: it's pretty unlikely tunkeg got protected [4/14/2012 2:57:54 AM] Blazinghand: if he did, medic will claim and i'll get lynched D1 like normal [4/14/2012 2:58:03 AM] Blazinghand: and you'll have to shoot the medic N1 [4/14/2012 2:58:05 AM] Dirkzor: yeah... radfield pointed it out aswell as a "bad" option for scum [4/14/2012 3:09:28 AM] Dirkzor: hahaha [4/14/2012 3:09:34 AM] Dirkzor: I laughed when I saw your post [4/14/2012 3:12:07 AM] Dirkzor: GG mate! Good claim. One of us had to do it at some point =) [4/14/2012 3:12:13 AM] Blazinghand: um [4/14/2012 3:12:15 AM] Blazinghand: just vote me now [4/14/2012 3:12:16 AM] Blazinghand: imo [4/14/2012 3:12:25 AM] Blazinghand: like [4/14/2012 3:12:31 AM] Blazinghand: no real discussion can happenw hile i'm alive [4/14/2012 3:14:30 AM] Dirkzor: Thats just not me. I'm trying to play this as I would as town. The others will vote you no worries... [4/14/2012 3:15:22 AM] Blazinghand: kk [4/14/2012 3:20:17 AM] Dirkzor: cluttering the thread is fine =) [4/14/2012 3:23:49 AM] Dirkzor:
On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is?
Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum.
Only me that finds this suspecious? [4/14/2012 3:23:52 AM] Dirkzor: good or bad post? [4/14/2012 3:28:19 AM] Blazinghand: WBG's question is definitely suspicious [4/14/2012 3:28:24 AM] Blazinghand: calling him out for it is reasonable [4/14/2012 3:28:30 AM] Blazinghand: that being said [4/14/2012 3:28:36 AM] Blazinghand: the 2nd scum is now aq good thing to talk about [4/14/2012 3:28:40 AM] Blazinghand: like, as of tunkeg's flip [4/14/2012 3:28:46 AM] Blazinghand: so specficy that the question was bad then [4/14/2012 3:28:47 AM] Blazinghand: but good now [4/14/2012 3:28:53 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 3:28:54 AM] Blazinghand: and that asking it back then is what scum would do [4/14/2012 3:28:57 AM] Blazinghand: asking it NOW is what town does [4/14/2012 3:30:34 AM] Dirkzor:
On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote: yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is?
Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum.
Only me that finds this suspicious?
I mean asking this after we have confirmed BH as scum is the next logical step towards winning this, but asking before the flip?! Just doesn't seem very townie-like to do... [4/14/2012 3:30:42 AM] Dirkzor: bolded the before in the first sentence aswell [4/14/2012 3:31:00 AM] Blazinghand: sounds good [4/14/2012 3:31:01 AM] Blazinghand: do it [4/14/2012 3:34:34 AM] Dirkzor: whatever medic tell you find just post it to me here. I'll make up my mind later if I want to try and kill the medic or whoever is less likely to be protected and not someone I can get a mislynch on [4/14/2012 3:36:16 AM] Blazinghand: ok [4/14/2012 3:36:21 AM] Blazinghand: i'm probably dead pretty soon [4/14/2012 3:36:25 AM] Blazinghand: after which i won't be able to help you any more [4/14/2012 3:36:48 AM] Dirkzor: thats why you should post just when you find them... :D (ofc stop when you die. No cheating! ) [4/14/2012 3:37:10 AM] Dirkzor: BL could be the medic. Why would he talk about that the medic protected BH... [4/14/2012 3:37:14 AM] Dirkzor: makes no sense [4/14/2012 3:37:18 AM] Dirkzor: but then again BL never makes sense [4/14/2012 3:37:38 AM] Blazinghand: yeah i wouldn't consider that a medic tell from BL [4/14/2012 3:37:42 AM] Blazinghand: he's unreadable to me [4/14/2012 3:40:57 AM] Dirkzor: lol BL called me town. [4/14/2012 3:58:09 AM] Blazinghand: dude BL is burying himself [4/14/2012 3:58:10 AM] Blazinghand: this is great [4/14/2012 3:58:13 AM] Blazinghand: just let him interact with wBG [4/14/2012 4:02:15 AM] Dirkzor: yeah [4/14/2012 4:02:50 AM] Dirkzor: i'll be away for 30 in or so... Have to get some food. [4/14/2012 4:02:53 AM] Blazinghand: kk [4/14/2012 4:03:03 AM] Blazinghand: i don't really know what i'm doing in the thread [4/14/2012 4:03:11 AM] Blazinghand: rofl [4/14/2012 4:03:16 AM] Dirkzor: you're just fucking it up thats what... and its good fun :D [4/14/2012 4:09:26 AM] Blazinghand: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827¤tpage=10#197 [4/14/2012 4:09:27 AM] Blazinghand: ROFL [4/14/2012 4:09:32 AM] Blazinghand: this is so good [4/14/2012 4:11:45 AM] Dirkzor: Rad think I'm town too... He doesn't mention me at all.. [4/14/2012 4:11:49 AM] Dirkzor: Well shopping brb [4/14/2012 4:12:09 AM] Blazinghand: kk
Thanks to Palmar and Mattchew for hosting! This setup was awesome.
On April 18 2012 09:31 wherebugsgo wrote: dunno why radfield wasn't protected either, that was strange.
yeah I consider that JW's only real mistake. radfield had good reads all game and basically forced us to shoot tunkeg n0. Even if there's some wifom floating around and you think scum isn't gonna shoot rad, it's worth it to protect a valuable town player like him.
Bluelightz scum play is fairly different from his town play, even if his town play may be scummier than most people's. Also, if you had read the endgame of Purgatory mafia, which he referenced, Bluelightz reacted basically exactly the same as he did at the endgame here. That alone was enough to cement my read on the situation. I think his reads are also better than people seem to expect from him, even if he isn't the best at conveying the reasoning/convincing others.
If you wanted to use another line of reasoning, if your team was bluelightz/blazinghand...would you really sacrifice blazinghand to out the cop night 0 instead of bluelightz? I think not.
On April 18 2012 09:43 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Bluelightz scum play is fairly different from his town play, even if his town play may be scummier than most people's. Also, if you had read the endgame of Purgatory mafia, which he referenced, Bluelightz reacted basically exactly the same as he did at the endgame here. That alone was enough to cement my read on the situation. I think his reads are also better than people seem to expect from him, even if he isn't the best at conveying the reasoning/convincing others.
If you wanted to use another line of reasoning, if your team was bluelightz/blazinghand...would you really sacrifice blazinghand to out the cop night 0 instead of bluelightz? I think not.
On April 18 2012 09:43 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: If you wanted to use another line of reasoning, if your team was bluelightz/blazinghand...would you really sacrifice blazinghand to out the cop night 0 instead of bluelightz? I think not.
Good reasoning. If I were on a team with BL, I'd have him claim (and make the sacrifice if necessary) and try to keep distance. Dirk is basically a better player than me, so it would make sense for me to claim. That being said, I just claimed because Dirk wasn't awake yet, and I was bored. lol.
On April 18 2012 09:49 johnnywup wrote: yeah gg blazing hope you think im at least somewhat less of an idiot now
We've come a long way from:
On March 27 2012 13:26 johnnywup wrote: I don't think you're mafia, blazing, because no mafia would be so stupid to post something so stupid. At least I think. Utterly garbage posting so far.
On March 27 2012 14:03 Blazinghand wrote: ##vote: johnnywup
I'd say "come at me bro" but your argumentation skills are so benign I feel like any "pressure" you put on me will only serve to exonerate me.
I think you should have saved Rad in the end, but hindsight is 20/20. It's fairly reasonable to expect scum to shoot Dirk if BL is scum? I guess. I feel like scum BL would have shot Rad too in that situation, or maybe deliberately not shot him since it would be obvious he'd shoot him, in which case saving Dirk would be the right move.
I was fairly sure dirk was town until last day. I didn't even consider him being scum until rad died so that's why I healed him. It was between him and rad, and hindsight being 20/20 i definitely should have saved rad. But this is my first time as /any/ power role, so I won't think too much of it right now.
On April 18 2012 08:31 wherebugsgo wrote: johnny you should've voted dirk when blue claimed you were the medic
scum could not correctly guess who the medic was
A VT can't correctly guess who the medic is, so I don't see how scum could or couldn't correctly guess either. As in, if BL thought johnny was scum, then he would have said "GG Dirk is doc". Why him thinking Dirk was scum make him more townie?
Anyways, as soon as johnny said he thought BL was scum...I knew BL was town
On April 18 2012 08:31 wherebugsgo wrote: johnny you should've voted dirk when blue claimed you were the medic
scum could not correctly guess who the medic was
A VT can't correctly guess who the medic is, so I don't see how scum could or couldn't correctly guess either. As in, if BL thought johnny was scum, then he would have said "GG Dirk is doc". Why him thinking Dirk was scum make him more townie?
Anyways, as soon as johnny said he thought BL was scum...I knew BL was town
that's true, but it's what I thought instantly lol.
then again for me it was between BL and dirk and I didn't really think johnny was scum :/
I just figured if BL was mafia, he'd shoot johnny and then this would make radfield vote dirkzor since a shot on johnny it would be "too easy" for town to lynch the last mafia (BL). Since radfield was shot, i figured dirk was mafia since not killing radfield would have sent up big red flags that BL wasn't mafia.
I found dirkzor's posting/cases opportunistic, wishy-washy and his day 1 interaction with BH felt fake, so I correctly identified him as the last mafia to palmar on day 1. BH/Dirkzor team also made most sense based on how n0 went.
DIrkzor slipped in the end. If he was town, and he was sure BL was mafia, then he would have known jonny to be medic by process of elimination. Dirkzor would have had to counter claim medic if BL had been medic, so he could not commit to a role untill he knew who was the real medic. So when dirkzor posts a line wondering how bluelights knew jonny to be medic, it should be clear dirkzor doesn't know his own town role. For setting up that gambit alone i think BL did ok, and it was just up to jonny to realise this.
Gg was entertaining. Medic/detective night actions?
On April 18 2012 14:56 Barundar wrote: DIrkzor slipped in the end. If he was town, and he was sure BL was mafia, then he would have known jonny to be medic by process of elimination. Dirkzor would have had to counter claim medic if BL had been medic, so he could not commit to a role untill he knew who was the real medic. So when dirkzor posts a line wondering how bluelights knew jonny to be medic, it should be clear dirkzor doesn't know his own town role. For setting up that gambit alone i think BL did ok, and it was just up to jonny to realise this.
Gg was entertaining. Medic/detective night actions?
This is wrong. If I was town either Johnny or BL could be the medic. I had no way to know before BL obviously did not claim medic in the end. BL just blatantly stated that Johnny was medic due him being so sure the last scum was between me and Rad. He had no real evidence however, only his own conviction.
Thanks for hosting Palmar! The setup was REALLY cool and super intense!
BH - Good job claiming cop! =) I'm sorry I had to sacrafice you but Radfield had your number early.
I kinda rushed a bit in the end while I throughout the game had played for the long run. Was bad. I shot Radfield in the end since I wouldn't end up in a situation where it was between me and him. Even if medic had protected him it would never be between me and him. It would have been Radfield + medic confirmed against me and either BL/Johnny.
I'm at work and will write more when i get home =)
This is wrong. If I was town either Johnny or BL could be the medic. I had no way to know before BL obviously did not claim medic in the end. BL just blatantly stated that Johnny was medic due him being so sure the last scum was between me and Rad. He had no real evidence however, only his own conviction.
He had his own conviction and the exact knowledge of his role, which is more than you could have pretended to have. If he had been scum it would have been a very high risk gamble to guess on the exact roles instead of just fake claiming medic and play it out from there. You had to wait for him to claim, because you couldn't risk claiming same role as jonny.
Ofcourse this is not 100 % complete evidence, but it should have been enough to look through your posts very carefully.
This is why I don't play mafia here (or on the internet, speaking globally). Because a) it is again and again shown how random it is without physically interacting with the people b) it is played with people like Blazinghand who think that this kind of behaviour is good (or even fun). In this game, all what it took for Mafia to win at the end was to basically play for town.
Nevertheless, its fun reading you guys (and I finally succeeded in following a mafia that enede up short enough to keep my attention!)
I thought people could believe me just this once ;_;
One-liners dont mean any fucking shit if that's really all he want's to say, hell I could just make a fucking list, speculate on crap and still consider it fucking worthy?
Also I can see why jwup protected Dirk
Scum (He thought it was me) will kill directly into dirk/radfield to incrimenate the other therefore he protected Dirkzor thinking he would get hit and confirm radfield and dirk and jwup.
I think it was an okay strategy by BH to spam, and then Dirkzor to tell that it cluttered the thread, and he should stop. It added to the fact that Dirkzor seemed less scummy. Online gives other options for strategies, I assume.
But I don't know. I have never played this game. Why not give it a try before you say it is not for you, just because it is different?
BH spamming and me calling it out was intentional. Was about to point out that BL interacted with BH spam-fest making BL more scum... I decided against it though.
I'm looking forward to radfields take on this... looking through the scum qt it seemed I fooled a lot of people I don't understand how people could find radfield scummy at all. Everything he posted made so much sense even though he was wrong....
This game was won because of good scumplay, and to an extent low activity by town. You might say it is random, and sure there will allways be some randomness, but in the end it came down to scum outplaying town, again.
Don't apologize BL. Yeah, you may be hard to read, but thats part of the game, some players are harder to read. If everyone was easy to figure out this game would be pointless. As long as you try your best to win regardless of alignment don't apologize.
And also for you johnny, don't feel down for beeing wrong. I love how these pro veteran comes in after the game and tell how easy it was to see that Dirkzor was scum. Don't know if their motives is to make you look bad or to make themselves look great. But in hindsight everything is easy, so don't feel bad.
On April 18 2012 19:48 Dirkzor wrote: BH spamming and me calling it out was intentional. Was about to point out that BL interacted with BH spam-fest making BL more scum... I decided against it though.
I'm looking forward to radfields take on this... looking through the scum qt it seemed I fooled a lot of people I don't understand how people could find radfield scummy at all. Everything he posted made so much sense even though he was wrong....
Radfield was to good as a townie. His reads were almost to perfect early on, which is why some of us got suspicious of him. What should have made me stop suspecting him though was him pushing for a no-lynch on day 2, which clearly is very town favored.
Also you were basicly a Radfield light in this game, so if there was no way he should be scum, there should be no way you could be scum. Most scummy thing you did in the game was the halleluja post you made about Radfields last analysis post. And I said in obs QT if Radfield die Dirk is scum because of it. But I changed my mind, so it doesn't really count.
His analysis post impressed me as a Mafia player. Its was a really good post. But at the same time my scum hands were clapping since he was so wrong =)
Aaaaargh can't decide. This scum team! Putting all faith left in Bluelightz may have been a genious move by scumteam. I got to have faith I stay on BL as scum. Or did Dirk lie twice about beeing drunk? No, I stay on BL!
I didn't lie about being drunk btw :D Those post just took execptionally long time to write.
On April 18 2012 18:32 opisska wrote: This is why I don't play mafia here (or on the internet, speaking globally). Because a) it is again and again shown how random it is without physically interacting with the people b) it is played with people like Blazinghand who think that this kind of behaviour is good (or even fun). In this game, all what it took for Mafia to win at the end was to basically play for town.
Nevertheless, its fun reading you guys (and I finally succeeded in following a mafia that enede up short enough to keep my attention!)
I disagree; it is not random but the things you have to pay attention to are different than in a real life game. I don't see how you could reach the conclusion. Mafia won because a few townies failed at their behavioural analysis, not due to random chance. Forum mafia is much more interesting, challenging and, indeed, less random because both sides have more time.
On April 18 2012 19:49 Tunkeg wrote: This game was won because of good scumplay, and to an extent low activity by town. You might say it is random, and sure there will allways be some randomness, but in the end it came down to scum outplaying town, again.
Don't apologize BL. Yeah, you may be hard to read, but thats part of the game, some players are harder to read. If everyone was easy to figure out this game would be pointless. As long as you try your best to win regardless of alignment don't apologize.
And also for you johnny, don't feel down for beeing wrong. I love how these pro veteran comes in after the game and tell how easy it was to see that Dirkzor was scum. Don't know if their motives is to make you look bad or to make themselves look great. But in hindsight everything is easy, so don't feel bad.
No one said claimed it was easy or claimed that they would always make the correct decision in similar circumstances, just that it was quite possible to identify the remaining mafia correctly based on solid reasoning rather than just pure luck. I'm not talking in hindsight.
On April 18 2012 19:49 Tunkeg wrote: This game was won because of good scumplay, and to an extent low activity by town. You might say it is random, and sure there will allways be some randomness, but in the end it came down to scum outplaying town, again.
Don't apologize BL. Yeah, you may be hard to read, but thats part of the game, some players are harder to read. If everyone was easy to figure out this game would be pointless. As long as you try your best to win regardless of alignment don't apologize.
And also for you johnny, don't feel down for beeing wrong. I love how these pro veteran comes in after the game and tell how easy it was to see that Dirkzor was scum. Don't know if their motives is to make you look bad or to make themselves look great. But in hindsight everything is easy, so don't feel bad.
Its fucking hard not to because I was the one scummy in the first place and that's why johnny voted me.
EDIT: and this time I was called worst player evar by everyone town!
On April 18 2012 18:32 opisska wrote: This is why I don't play mafia here (or on the internet, speaking globally). Because a) it is again and again shown how random it is without physically interacting with the people b) it is played with people like Blazinghand who think that this kind of behaviour is good (or even fun). In this game, all what it took for Mafia to win at the end was to basically play for town.
Nevertheless, its fun reading you guys (and I finally succeeded in following a mafia that enede up short enough to keep my attention!)
This is completely wrong. Yes, there is always a random factor, but there is a reason that after multiple games it's very easy to identify strong and weak players.
Blazinghand's behavior would be punished in most games by the mod. I generally choose to instead simply give the players tools to deal with something like this, in this game by simply instantly lynching him.
Really, anyone who thinks mafia is a random game is saying simply being ignorant. And having played 30+ games online and quite a few in real life too, I can say that real life mafia is much less engaging, and in a way more random. Because you lack the ability to go scrutinize everything someone has said.
Oh sorry, I messed the similar nicknames. I meant Bluelightz, of course. Sorry to both (to one for insulting him., the other one for not doing so). What Blazinghand was doing was actually funny
And as for the randomness: I agree that sometimes, you can just analyze the game. But that is mainly because people are not playing mafia as effectively as they could. I believe that there is a simple winning strategy for mafia in any online game: play for town. Imagine what you would do as town and do it (if the setup is complex with many roles, maybe sacrifice a couple of players to negate these roles or waste their time, such as the cop CC in this game). If some mafia do not do anything to help their cause, then the shooting is completely random. What Drizkor did this game was farily close and was very effective. It also nicely uses the fact that in a public setting, there will be townies who "just can't help themselves" like Bluelightz.
edit: misspell that acidentally changed the whole meaning sorry, I have one injured finger today, so my typing is just bad.
On April 18 2012 19:49 Tunkeg wrote: This game was won because of good scumplay, and to an extent low activity by town. You might say it is random, and sure there will allways be some randomness, but in the end it came down to scum outplaying town, again.
Don't apologize BL. Yeah, you may be hard to read, but thats part of the game, some players are harder to read. If everyone was easy to figure out this game would be pointless. As long as you try your best to win regardless of alignment don't apologize.
And also for you johnny, don't feel down for beeing wrong. I love how these pro veteran comes in after the game and tell how easy it was to see that Dirkzor was scum. Don't know if their motives is to make you look bad or to make themselves look great. But in hindsight everything is easy, so don't feel bad.
Its fucking hard not to because I was the one scummy in the first place and that's why johnny voted me.
EDIT: and this time I was called worst player evar by everyone town!
I actually think you played like you always do and would have thought you were town. But I kinda had to call you scum You had a big inactivity period which you normally don't have.
In hindsight I should have not killed anyone the last night. If Johnny had protected me I was home safe. If he had protected someone else it would be a similar situation as it was, with a 50/50 situation - and most probably between myself and BL =) That would have been an awesome move =)
On April 18 2012 19:49 Tunkeg wrote: This game was won because of good scumplay, and to an extent low activity by town. You might say it is random, and sure there will allways be some randomness, but in the end it came down to scum outplaying town, again.
Don't apologize BL. Yeah, you may be hard to read, but thats part of the game, some players are harder to read. If everyone was easy to figure out this game would be pointless. As long as you try your best to win regardless of alignment don't apologize.
And also for you johnny, don't feel down for beeing wrong. I love how these pro veteran comes in after the game and tell how easy it was to see that Dirkzor was scum. Don't know if their motives is to make you look bad or to make themselves look great. But in hindsight everything is easy, so don't feel bad.
Its fucking hard not to because I was the one scummy in the first place and that's why johnny voted me.
EDIT: and this time I was called worst player evar by everyone town!
Well you were the only player ingame to figure out the secound scum, that have to count for something, right?
On April 18 2012 21:21 opisska wrote: Oh sorry, I messed the similar nicknames. I meant Bluelightz, of course. Sorry to both (to one for insulting him., the other one for not doing so). What Blazinghand was doing was actually funny
And as for the randomness: I agree that sometimes, you can just analyze the game. But that is mainly because people are not playing mafia as effectively as they could. I believe that there is a simple winning strategy for mafia in any online game: play for town. Imagine what you would do as town and do it (if the setup is complex with many roles, maybe sacrifice a couple of players to negate these roles or waste their time, such as the cop CC in this game). If some mafia do not do anything to help their cause, then the shooting is completely random. What Drizkor did this game was farily close and was very effective. It also nicely uses the fact that in a public setting, there will be townies who "just can't help themselves" like Bluelightz.
edit: misspell that acidentally changed the whole meaning sorry, I have one injured finger today, so my typing is just bad.
On April 18 2012 19:49 Tunkeg wrote: This game was won because of good scumplay, and to an extent low activity by town. You might say it is random, and sure there will allways be some randomness, but in the end it came down to scum outplaying town, again.
Don't apologize BL. Yeah, you may be hard to read, but thats part of the game, some players are harder to read. If everyone was easy to figure out this game would be pointless. As long as you try your best to win regardless of alignment don't apologize.
And also for you johnny, don't feel down for beeing wrong. I love how these pro veteran comes in after the game and tell how easy it was to see that Dirkzor was scum. Don't know if their motives is to make you look bad or to make themselves look great. But in hindsight everything is easy, so don't feel bad.
Its fucking hard not to because I was the one scummy in the first place and that's why johnny voted me.
EDIT: and this time I was called worst player evar by everyone town!
Well you were the only player ingame to figure out the secound scum, that have to count for something, right?
jdub wouldve figured it out as well if I died but then I didnt u_u
On April 18 2012 21:21 opisska wrote: But that is mainly because people are not playing mafia as effectively as they could. I believe that there is a simple winning strategy for mafia in any online game: play for town. Imagine what you would do as town and do it.
You say this, but through hundreds of games not a single player has been able to do this consistently. Not to mention that as soon as you start playing multiple games, your style becomes more exposed for analysis.
While I think we're far from having hit any kind of a skill ceiling in this game, it is arrogant and frankly a bit dumb, to assume that the game is as simple as you make it out to be.
do you think this forum would've existed for years without there actually being some merit to the game?
You say Dirkzor played a convincing scum game, but syllogism figured his name out (via pm) during n0 in the game. Do you think it's random luck? There is a reason some townies die faster than others.
On April 18 2012 21:21 opisska wrote: But that is mainly because people are not playing mafia as effectively as they could. I believe that there is a simple winning strategy for mafia in any online game: play for town. Imagine what you would do as town and do it.
You say this, but through hundreds of games not a single player has been able to do this consistently. Not to mention that as soon as you start playing multiple games, your style becomes more exposed for analysis.
While I think we're far from having hit any kind of a skill ceiling in this game, it is arrogant and frankly a bit dumb, to assume that the game is as simple as you make it out to be.
do you think this forum would've existed for years without there actually being some merit to the game?
You say Dirkzor played a convincing scum game, but syllogism figured his name out (via pm) during n0 in the game. Do you think it's random luck? There is a reason some townies die faster than others.
One lesson I got from this - don't roll scum in a game with syllogism playing town >.<
On April 18 2012 21:21 opisska wrote: But that is mainly because people are not playing mafia as effectively as they could. I believe that there is a simple winning strategy for mafia in any online game: play for town. Imagine what you would do as town and do it.
You say this, but through hundreds of games not a single player has been able to do this consistently. Not to mention that as soon as you start playing multiple games, your style becomes more exposed for analysis.
While I think we're far from having hit any kind of a skill ceiling in this game, it is arrogant and frankly a bit dumb, to assume that the game is as simple as you make it out to be.
do you think this forum would've existed for years without there actually being some merit to the game?
You say Dirkzor played a convincing scum game, but syllogism figured his name out (via pm) during n0 in the game. Do you think it's random luck? There is a reason some townies die faster than others.
One lesson I got from this - don't roll scum in a game with syllogism playing town >.<
On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote: Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this.
And I think you're the last scum
That's it, jaybrundage, xtf, hassy.
Game solved. Next one?
Grackaroni, RoL, and Jackal58 were scum in the first quote(Purgatory Mafia), the second jay xtf hassy(I replaced him :D) was from student mafia.
And as for the randomness: I agree that sometimes, you can just analyze the game. But that is mainly because people are not playing mafia as effectively as they could. I believe that there is a simple winning strategy for mafia in any online game: play for town. Imagine what you would do as town and do it (if the setup is complex with many roles, maybe sacrifice a couple of players to negate these roles or waste their time, such as the cop CC in this game). If some mafia do not do anything to help their cause, then the shooting is completely random. What Drizkor did this game was farily close and was very effective. It also nicely uses the fact that in a public setting, there will be townies who "just can't help themselves" like Bluelightz.
Please play a game as scum faking "playing for town" and see if you don't get caught. You sound like you are really really lazy and don't want to have to read further than the physical content of people's posts.
On April 18 2012 23:50 chaoser wrote: I love games like this, can we have more of them?!
I concur. Thanks again to Palmar for hosting and Mattchew for not giving Dirkzor away cohosting. The setup was good and intense, I would play this sort of thing again.
Also looking back on it I think Bluelightz was playing to his "town" meta as opposed to his scum meta. He's one of those players who you have to look at his previous games to read him, or else he's just unreadable but if you DO look at his meta, he's readable.
On April 18 2012 21:21 opisska wrote: And as for the randomness: I agree that sometimes, you can just analyze the game. But that is mainly because people are not playing mafia as effectively as they could. I believe that there is a simple winning strategy for mafia in any online game: play for town. Imagine what you would do as town and do it (if the setup is complex with many roles, maybe sacrifice a couple of players to negate these roles or waste their time, such as the cop CC in this game). If some mafia do not do anything to help their cause, then the shooting is completely random.
wrong: mafia will not shoot themselves. seriously though if you think this game is so easy, you're wrong. people still play it and work to become better at it.
On April 18 2012 18:32 opisska wrote: This is why I don't play mafia here (or on the internet, speaking globally). Because a) it is again and again shown how random it is without physically interacting with the people b) it is played with people like Blazinghand who think that this kind of behaviour is good (or even fun). In this game, all what it took for Mafia to win at the end was to basically play for town.
Nevertheless, its fun reading you guys (and I finally succeeded in following a mafia that enede up short enough to keep my attention!)
I fail to see at all how this win was random; 3 townies in a row failed to see who the scum was between 2 players, one townie failed to establish himself, and one scum played well enough to fool all of them.
It's not random that we though Radfield was town or Blazinghand scum. There were specific reasons for everything that happened this game and if you were reading it clearly you would know that. Don't discredit the play of the participants by calling the outcome random.
On April 18 2012 18:32 opisska wrote: This is why I don't play mafia here (or on the internet, speaking globally). Because a) it is again and again shown how random it is without physically interacting with the people b) it is played with people like Blazinghand who think that this kind of behaviour is good (or even fun). In this game, all what it took for Mafia to win at the end was to basically play for town.
Nevertheless, its fun reading you guys (and I finally succeeded in following a mafia that enede up short enough to keep my attention!)
I fail to see at all how this win was random; 3 townies in a row failed to see who the scum was between 2 players, one townie failed to establish himself, and one scum played well enough to fool all of them.
It's not random that we though Radfield was town or Blazinghand scum. There were specific reasons for everything that happened this game and if you were reading it clearly you would know that. Don't discredit the play of the participants by calling the outcome random.
In fact, I forgot to mention in the post-game discussion: mad props to Radfield for basically shitting on my n0 play and forcing us to shoot Tunkeg. It moved us from a "we can get lynched once and still be alive" situation to a very grim one.
Yes, radfield (and tunkeg for looking very townie) won the game right there basically, unfortunately the medic was apparently distracted by another game or something...
Power roles are a bitch... I actually found it easier to play scum then anything else so far. With this being my first game as mafia. Maybe because I was alone. I didn't have to pay attention on how I pushed a buddy... I had free reign to push BH n0 as I would as a town so it made it easy. After that I just pointed out what I felt was scummy...
I typically don't find rolecrumbs to be worth anything. When I roll a blue, I don't crumb my role, I just crumb my actions/results, since those are worthwhile when you claim. I know that if I were in the habit of crumbing my blue roles, as scum I'd put some crumbs for a blue role-- so I don't ever crumb my role. same effect, less effort.
Whenever I play as a Doctor (I've never been a DT), I crumb who I'm going to save in some incomprehensible (except when pointed out, in hindsight) fashion, so that if I save a guy, and that guy gets wagoned later and I'm forced to roleclaim to save him, I can do so more effectively.
If I were a DT I wouldn't crumb my actions before the night (unless there was some mechanic that made it advantageous to do so) but would crumb my results each day, so that later on when I claim (or if I should be NKed) people can find out / confirm my results. At least, that's the plan if I ever roll a dT.
As scum it's not terribly hard to fake crumbs even of your checks, it's just most players are too lazy/scared to do it.
The cool thing about doing it as scum is that you can potentially breadcrumb multiple things at once if you're really good, then when you're in a sticky situation you just use whatever would help you out the most.
I've never been in such a situation yet but it's something I thought about after my fail claims from Mini X and Storm.
Typically though early on as scum it's difficult to know exactly what you should be crumbing (ie are you claiming doctor, jk jk jk, or DT)-- though I guess you could make your crumbs either ambiguous or have multiple crumbs, but it seems possible you could get found out if that were the case.
On April 19 2012 05:04 johnnywup wrote: it's not obvious to me, who were you breadcrumbing that you were going to heal?
Velinath.
On December 10 2011 09:42 Blazinghand wrote: MJY: Just because Veli attacked bad posts a lot doesn't necessarily make him town. Keep your eye on him as always, guys.
Also, it shouldn't be obvious unless it's pointed out-- that's kinda the point.
That's what I thought. But pointing it out later it still seems ambiguous. I think there's no way to convince everyone that you are actually doc by quoting that post.
On April 19 2012 05:08 johnnywup wrote: That's what I thought. But pointing it out later it still seems ambiguous. I think there's no way to convince everyone that you are actually doc by quoting that post.
?? The point is that IF scum targets Velinath that night, AND I save him (they roleblocked me), AND there's a wagon on him later, AND I claim doc and say that veli must be town because I saved him (no vigis that game), then people won't lynch him. Also that crumb is utterly unambiguous in my eyes... I basically say I'm saving Veli.
On April 19 2012 05:11 johnnywup wrote: But I just wonder how that says that you're healing him. It stood out to me as the one you were talking about, but I wasn't sure why.
Oh, I think I get the problem here. You don't know who Ma Jae-Yoon is! MJY is a transposition of MYJ, which is the initials for a famous brood war player whose handle is "sAviOr"-- he later became notorious in a match-fixing scandal.
EDIT: this is something I would point out in my roleclaim
On April 19 2012 05:18 johnnywup wrote: That makes a LOT more sense. The sentence in itself didn't seem like a breadcrumb to me so that explains it
:D yeah my goal with doctor breadcrumbs is for them to be utterly incomprehensible and unnoticeable unless I explicitly roleclaim and explain them. If you're a DT and there's some chance of getting NKed before you reveal your results, you probably want your crumbs to be find/understandable if someone knows you're a DT. Not 100% sure on that though having never been a DT.
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