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I'm a cop you idiot mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-13 10:50:20
April 13 2012 10:48 GMT
#14
How many players? (Am I Blind?)

/in

Edit: Is it 7 players then? =)
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 13 2012 22:22 GMT
#51
Hello drunk and sleepy. Game filled up fast... Lets kill scum okay? good night!
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 07:59 GMT
#115
Okay. Good morning =) (And sorry for drunk posting. Wasn't as bad as other players though )

What I learned from DF2 was keep it simple. What that means here is to resolve the BH/Tunkeg thingy. While Radfields case is making sense I'll try to make my own case and own conclusions.

On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote:
So this have been churning in my mind all day:

COP CLAIM.

Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:

Pros:
1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.

1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt.
1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.

2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.

3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.

Cons.

1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).

2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.

3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.


So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.


Tunkeg first post is solid. It makes sense. But why does he assume the Medic should be on the cop? He was expecting a counterclaim which means the Medic have to choose between the 2 cop claims on who to protect. From a scum perspective it would be fine since they get 25% chance to hit the medic out of the last remaining townies. A medic save besicly wins the game for us.
But I get a town feeling from this. It just stood out to me.

Then he go to fake-claim going to bed (lol).

BH comes in supporting the claim.

On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 08:13 Bluelightz wrote:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote:
So this have been churning in my mind all day:

COP CLAIM.

Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:

Pros:
1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.

1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt.
1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.

2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.

3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.

Cons.

1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).

2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.

3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.


So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.


Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.


That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.

Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind.
Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.

I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.

If BH is cop. Why didn't he just claim right here? He already seemed convinced that it was the best choice. (Bolded) He also doesn't mention counter claiming at all. Scenario B will never happen since scum are forced to counter claim. I find it weird that being a cop you would not think about a possible counterclaim. BH also auto assumes that medic will protect the cop - maybe because he didn't think about counter claims at all.

Radfield post his super logic about claim or not to claim and BH instantly claims Cop. It lines up with him having already made up his mind.
On April 14 2012 09:33 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm not calling my check beforehand since mafia will just kill who I'm checking. I'll announce my result as soon as D1 starts.
This makes me think BH thought about what being a cop would mean but since it very basic anyone could have brought it up.

Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town.

Tunkeg and BH goes at eachother. Most post are entirely useless to us. But some stands out:
On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote:
Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D


See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."

Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:

"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".

I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?

Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?

But BH didn't discuss it? His first post he was already dead set on that the Cop should claim and he instant claimed after Radfields post (where Radfield himself was asking for discussion and not just stating: "Do this!")
On April 14 2012 09:51 Tunkeg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote:
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote:
Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D


See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."

Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:

"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".

I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?

Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?


Lol, I would never ever in a million years suggest a cop claim N0 as a scum, as the cop claim is what wins us the game. But if I am not to claim I will pretend to be normal vanilla who brought it up, and who leaves the thread when no one is interested in continuing discussing it. It is currently 02:48 here, I could not sit around and wait for the thread to heat up. So I typed it up in thread, sent in my nightactions about 40 mins later, played some dota, and waited to see if we got some nightpost. Then Bluelightz comes in right after me to post, I continue to lurk, you come in and type your stuff, and then Radfield.

Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.

Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic.
On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote:
Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.


That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...

I would, if I were cop, go back and read the OP very carefully to fully understand my role. It's weird that Tunkeg assumed he was a role cop. His PM doesn't say and as far as I'm aware alignment cops are the norm? This can be a misunderstanding but it could be a "slip". I don't think we should put much focus on this since we won't know which it is.

To conclude something. Both have done things that I find scummy or "weird-if-town". The biggest point for me is that Tunkeg stayed up. Radfield naiiled when he said that scum is always looking for a reason to NOT be active. Sleeping is the best and most valid reason. I went to bed and I live in the same timezone as Tunkeg. Why wouldn't he do it? Because he know the game revolved around the cop and he was the cop so he HAD to stay up to make a difference.
A big scumtell on BH is how he, in his first post, was dead set on claiming. But didn't. Then when Radfield made logic work he claimed. Later he claimed his mindset was to "wait and discuss". His words and actions just didn't add up.

I would say that BH is the best guess of who is scum right now. But we have plenty of time tomorrow to figure it out. Don't be hasty with your votes btw. If 2 townies vote for wrong one scum can hammer and we loose. So first we agree and then we vote.

"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 09:13 GMT
#119
On April 14 2012 17:49 Tunkeg wrote:
@Dirkzor:

You say:
Show nested quote +

"Tunkeg counter claims the cop claim. I don't get why he had to fake-claim going to bed in order to be able to counter-claim. It just seems very townie-like to stay up like that. I've never been scum, but as town I have set my alarm in the dead of night to vote just to be sure I did everything I could as town. ".



The reason for me saying I am going to bed was that I wouldn't send in my nightactions and then go to bed, only to see that straight after I go to bed the nightpost goes up. Pretty much revealing to the scum that I had a nightaction. I did not stick around to counterclaim, I stuck around because I wasn't going to bed yet, but wanted to avoid what I wrote above.

You also say:
Show nested quote +

Anyone in this game should suggest a cop claim. The game revolve around the cop. It's WIFOM to say "I would never as scum..." I find it interesting that he think (and points out) that scum would never suggest a cop claim. We have 2 people who were both for the claim and one of them have to be scum. So scum would suggest the claim. Looks to me like he is saying he is town with very very poor logic.


I think scum wouldn't want to bring attention to a cop claim from the get go, but thats my opinion, and it is impossible for you to see whether I reallly mean it or if it is some scumtactics trying to portray my first posts as only something a townie would do. When it is allready out there well then it is just a matter of what the scumteam prefer, do they support a copclaim (which then will lead to a CC) or do they try to shut it down. I would go for the latter.


I just don't understand why you'd have to lie about going to bed. Wouldn't it have been easier to just stop posting? It seemed you wanted to lure a reaction but at the same time you later wrote that you didn't think scum would claim cop so it just doesn't add up.

The cop claim is already on the spotlight due the nature of the setup and the name. There is no avoiding a cop claim at some point during this game. All we had to figure out was when it was the best time to claim. So I don't agree with you here at all. With your logic anyone who talked about the cop claim and tried to figure out how it worked best/worst for us is town? Or am I mistaken here? Or is it only because you were the first one to bring it up that you are town?
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 09:25 GMT
#121
yo wherebogsgo, who do you think the second scum is?

Who do you think the first scum is? BH or Tunkeg?
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 09:34 GMT
#124
If you think it was bad for scum that the cop claimed n0 why didn't you claim? Why wait?
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 10:11 GMT
#133
So BH is scum. I will vote for him. Not now since it will end the dayphase before we can discuss the implications.
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 10:20 GMT
#139
BH stop cluttering the thread. Thats just annoying.

WBG do you think we should just head directly into n1 asap? and then find the last scum d1 with potentially less targets?
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 10:31 GMT
#142
On April 14 2012 18:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
yo bluelightz, who do you think the second scum is?

Why did you post this before the kill post? like you already knew we had found scum #1? Did you know who would die, scum? You also then instantly votes for BH to gain towncred by voted the obvious scum.

Only me that finds this suspicious?

I mean asking this after we have confirmed BH as scum is the next logical step towards winning this, but asking before the flip?! Just doesn't seem very townie-like to do...
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 10:40 GMT
#155
On April 14 2012 19:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
also how the fuck would voting BH give me towncred? Everyone will ultimately vote BH today.


It doesn't in itself. Everyone will vote him. Just combined with the fact that you had already move on from the BH/tunkeg situation before the lynch makes it suspicious. But you're right the voting thing probably doesn't mean much. The other part is still odd to me.


"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 12:19 GMT
#232
On April 14 2012 20:13 Radfield wrote:
Also, let me reiterate. KIlling Tunkeg is actually a BAD move, unless the mafia cop-candidate is already in a bad position relative to the real cop. If you still have 50/50 than it makes sense to leave the cop and fight it out, because the medic has a good chance at a hero save N1.

Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 20:04 wherebugsgo wrote:
man if only johnny were here

sucks the time zones are so far apart


I'm less interested in Johnny and more in Dirkzor. What are your thoughts Dirkzor?


I think BH should stop spamming the thread for starters... So annoying to read stuff.

On topic: BL is making no sense.
First up a weird town claim that we can use for nothing. Why? Just to say he is town?

He is flip flopping on his reads all the time when pushed:
On April 14 2012 19:38 Bluelightz wrote:
Presto I'm town. Last scum somewhere between jwup for voting tunkeg, or rad/you (WBG) depending who dies tonight.

Last scum is between Johnny or wbg/rad. Then:
On April 14 2012 20:01 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote:
On April 14 2012 19:58 Bluelightz wrote:
On April 14 2012 19:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
like, no shit if he doesn't live it's not a bus....what the fuck?

Generally I think your town somehow also based on this and based of elimination it's jwup or radfield



Why do you think Bugs is town?

Elimination and he's been active, and I don't think scum would lunge at me like that.

Now Radfield is no longer scummy
On April 14 2012 20:14 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 20:06 Radfield wrote:
On April 14 2012 20:00 Bluelightz wrote:
On April 14 2012 19:59 Radfield wrote:
and yes, if I die I assume it would change your opinion of me.....

Mostly my opinion of you is because I think you bussed and of elimination your one of two candidates for 2nd scum.



Just to be clear, you think this was a bus: + Show Spoiler +
On April 14 2012 12:24 Radfield wrote:
Ok, I think Blazinghand is the fake-claimer and I'm writing this now as I don't expect to live through the night. Let me tell you why.

Lets first consider mafia motivations for this game. You KNOW that it's all about th cop, and counter-claiming the cop. If I rolled mafia, first thing I'm doing is discussing which of us is going to claim as the cop. Also consider this: mafia want to be the first out of the gate to claim cop, because whoever claims second generally looks like a pretty lame counter-claimer. So mafia will try to be johnny-on-the-spot and snipe the claim before the actual cop. Anything that gives you a measure of credibility is worth it, considering one has to assume this game will be decided on the slightest misstep. Hence mafia will be looking for an excuse to claim early.

I'd like to talk first about why I think Blazinghand is scum, then I will talk about why I think Tunkeg is the actual Cop. Those two points are mostly exclusive.

There are several reason I think Blazinghand is scum and first is his demeanor.
First is his response to me on page 3:

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 14 2012 08:46 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 08:13 Bluelightz wrote:
On April 14 2012 07:17 Tunkeg wrote:
So this have been churning in my mind all day:

COP CLAIM.

Now that we have doc protection on night 0, cop should claim and doc should heal him. Why do I think this is a great idea:

Pros:
1. We get a confirmed town or a counterclaim.

1. a. We got a confirmed town, which makes it easier for us to scumhunt.
1. b. We get a 1 for 1 trade with scum. Which isn't as great is pretty great considering there are only 2 scums in this game.

2. Scum will be shooting in to the 4 townies leftover (Doc must protect cop after claim obviously). They will then have a 1/4=25% chance to hit one of our important blue players, instead of a 2/5=40% chance of hitting one of our blue players.

3. As long as cop is alive we get a new confirmed town for every day or a scum. Cop should post his checks as vanilla town=town. Scum= scum. Doc= Checked doc will not reveal. On day one this narrows the field to either 2 confirmed town and 4 remaining players giving us a 50% chance to lynch scum (which should increase by reasoning). Or it gives us the first scum to lynch.

Cons.

1. Scum knows our Cop (obv).

2. Scum can lynch into any other town at night, securing guaranteed kill knowing doc is on cop. This also include picking of the ones Cop reveals as confirmed townies the night after they are reveales.

3. If Doc is killed or lynched we lose our Cop, and we will be in some real trouble.


So guys any thoughts on this? I am for a Cop claim.


Tunkeg, its insta-lylo tommorow if mafia get an NK.


That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.

Scenario A (cop does not claim): We enter D1 and the mafia has possibly shot the cop. The cop can claim at this point and we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum. If the cop got shot, though, we're flying blind.
Scenario B (cop DOES claim): We enter D2 and the mafia cannot have shot the cop, because the medic protected him overnight. THE COP CANNOT HAVE BEEN SHOT, meaning we have 2 confirmed town, or 1 confirmed town and 1 confirmed scum.

I think that even though it's gonna be LYLO tomorrow, the cop should claim, and the medic should just protect him.

On April 14 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote:
I want to discuss this Tunkeg, but NO ONE claim yet.

There are pro's and con's to each claiming + counter-claim, and not claiming at all. At the moment I'm leaning towards it being better to not claim. Keep in mind that barring a hero medic protect, we are in constant lylo no matter what.

I'm at work right now, but will be home in just over 2 hours. I would like to discuss this in depth.

After typing that, it's possible that claiming IS the best call because it forces a 50-50 lynch, which is decent. I'm not sure yet though, so hold off until we discuss.

Stick around for two hours(or 2.5) though and I'll be here.

On April 14 2012 08:53 Blazinghand wrote:
Ok.

Bear in mind that the night is pretty short (only 10 hours left). I'll be around for some time. The only reason I brought this up again was that an N0 claim could be more advantageous than a D1 claim-- mafia has no RB.



His response to me is deferential and defensive. He gives an excuse for why he brought it up, when no excuse was needed. There was nothing even really wrong with his post, except for the fact that he completely leaves off mentioning a counter-claim scenario. How can you entertain the idea of a cop claiming but not notice the obvious counter-claim scenario. It's conspicuous in it's absence.

Fact is, I wasn't even responding to BH, I was talking to Tunkeg, as you can see by my next post.

Second is the contradiction between this:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote:
I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.

I am the cop.


and this:

Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 09:45 Blazinghand wrote:
On April 14 2012 09:42 Tunkeg wrote:
Yeah, this is indeed very fun now. Didn't think we would get a scum claim on cop first though :D


See, this is what doesn't make sense to me. This game clearly is about the cop claim. It's even called "I'm the cop you idiot."

Let me explain MY thought process up until my claim:

"whether or not I claim is important. I will discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is, then I will execute it immediately".


I don't really understand what you were thinking, adding that big about claims to the discussion then bailin out hard. wouldn't a cop be more worried about the implications of his role? Wouldn't, a scum player, in fact, try to lay some groundwork for his claim but not want to?

Which of us has played like he wants the town to win?


Keep in mind that Blazinghand's claim came apprx 2 minutes after I posted my analysis of 'to claim or not to claim'. If his strategy was truly to 'discuss it with other players until it's clear what the optimal strategy is", he most certainly did NOT do that. What he did was leap at the first opportunity to claim cop that he had. There was basically no discussion of the pros and cons or potential merits of claiming or not. Just me stating that one was better than the other, when I had JUST posted that I was feeling muddled about the potential cost-benefit analysis and was asking for people's thoughts.

Remember that mafia are looking for a reason to claim first, and my post is an easy excuse. In this post BH also states the the game is "clearly about the cop", yet in his initial post he completely fails to talk about counter-claims, which is bizarre.

From there on out it's just a shoving match between Tunkeg and Blazinghand. The crux of my argument truly comes down to the contradiction. Blazinghand claims that his whole mindset was to discuss and wait for the optimal strategy, and then claim. However he waits only for my opinion, and then claims. But what if I am scum and being intentionally misleading!? BH gives no thought to that(because he knows i am town), but immediately claims in thread. I hold that the immediacy of that claim is due to not wanting to be the second claimer, because BH KNOWS there will be two claimants.




Tunkeg on the other hand, I have a fairly town read on. First his opening post shows he cares about and has thought about the game. It includes things such as medic save percentages, which is something that isn't an obvious pro/con at first glance. His post also reads like a cop just begging for someone to say "Hey Cop! TIme to claim!". He then follows it up with trying to encourage discussion, which doesn't happen.

Second, Tunkeg claims he first sent in a check on Blazinghand, and then changed once the CC happened. He follows up by saying:
Show nested quote +

Why did I pick you for my first nightaction check - Well I consider Radfield and WBG the best players in the game. I assume scum kills one of them if both aren't scum, and I therefor chose the one I consider third, which is you.


This is actually pretty good logic, and shows that either he has been thinking about his check, or is just really good at making shit up on the fly.

Lets compare and contrast BH and Tunkeg's claim-posts:

Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote:
I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.

I am the cop.

Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote:
I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.

I am the cop.


Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!


One is well structured, with blue font and a couple well reasoned sentanced. The other is slapdash and spontaneous. Speaking as a player who has played as scum before, I would NEVER make a post like Tunkegs as a fake counter claim. My post would look exactly like BH's. Safe, Neutral and most important: First.

Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 09:38 Blazinghand wrote:
On April 14 2012 09:36 Tunkeg wrote:
On April 14 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote:
I agree strongly. In this setup the cop will basically HAVE to claim D1 since we'll be at lylo, and claiming N0 is superior to claiming D1. Guaranteeing the cop surviving the night is worth it.

I am the cop.


Lie, I didnt go to bed, I am the real cop! There you have it!


Well, that was quick. So you went to bed, but you were actually here watching the thread so you could counter claim the cop, huh. I know you're scum.


BH accuses Tunkeg of being scummy for not going to bed, and returning to the thread. However this is the exact opposite of typical scum play. When you say you're going to bed as scum, you go to bed. It's when you say you are going to write an analysis or something is when you actually don't follow through. Town players are constantly drawn back to the thread, while mafia players are constantly looking for reasons to leave it(usually). Look at my posting this game, I stated I was going to wait until I got home, but then just kept posting from work at the expense of my work(hint: it's because I am town).

Look at the demeanor of each player. Tunkeg seems relaxed and come-what-may. BH seems wound tightly and defensive.

I'd like to write more, but frankly I'm tired. Here's hoping the medic sees me along to Day 1 (I doubt it though!).




Additionally(upon refreshing the page) I think the rolecop thing is likely a red herring. The OP states this: "Cops can investigate someone's alignment every night". Which means that no, Tunkeg will not be able to get back 'medic' as a result(which I had thought). However, I think one would only know that if you read the OP carefully because....

It doesn't actually say anything in the cop PM!

Blazinghand states this:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 11:08 Blazinghand wrote:
On April 14 2012 09:46 Tunkeg wrote:
Yeah, BH you will just post town on anyone you have claimed to check tomorrow. I on the other hand will post town, scum or doc even.


That's interesting, because my checks only return as town or scum...


And he states it as if that information is written into his role PM and not just publicly available. As we know, the role PMs only state this: "Welcome to Idiot Mafia. You are a Cop/Vanilla Town/Doctor/Mafia Goon". So it's perfectly understandable that Tunkeg could mistake how his role works, particularly with me stating the same thing(and him only agreeing with me). Again, I think it more likely that a scum player will be meticulous about the fine detail of the fake claim, and not unlikely that the actual cop might miss that blurb.

I'd give about 70-75% chance right now that BH is scum.




You realize that ludicrous right? The reason scum shot Tunkeg is because BH was outted, mainly by my spearheading. At that point no one was calling BH scum, and there was in fact gas on the Tunkeg fire because of his rolecop thing.

Once BH was out in the open it only made sense for mafia to shoot Tunkeg. Yes, BH was obviously bussed, and that makes posts like this more legitamate:

On April 14 2012 18:12 johnnywup wrote:
Ikinda see your points, from both tunkeg and dirkzor. i'll read more into cop vs cop in the morning but asof right now they both look evenly scummy/towny, in myopinion. reading the argument from dirkzor, i agree its kinda weird how BH was like "Cop needs to claim NOW" even though he thought claiming cop was best and he was "cop". i dontthink a cop would post that, they would just claim right away. Onthe other hand, tunkegs resistance to claiming n0 even though its clearly the best move for town is also relatively scummy in my opinion. I can'tsay for certain who's lying at this point, will re-assess the situation when i wake up.


and posts like this fairly scummy:

On April 14 2012 18:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
I think BH is far more likely to be scum than tunkeg right now. That's just by feel mostly, but in particular the fact that BH said this:


That doesn't make his idea wrong though. Look, here's what's gonna happen D1: we'll be at lylo. Our cop needs to claim NOW, and get medic protection, and NOT call who he is checking.


Saying "so he can get medic protection" means he probably didn't think very hard (not something the actual cop would do) because he overlooked the counterclaim. Sure, if no one CCs the cop he automatically gets free protection but what scumteam would let that happen?

Also, he said the cop needs to claim now, but if he was actually the cop he would've claimed right away if he had that mindset to begin with. It's what I would do

Your saying bugs is scum? Also, let's drop this... I'm gonna regret this if our scum but I think your town now, well you convinced me.....

Now Johnny is town and Radfield or WBG is scum again.
On April 14 2012 20:29 Bluelightz wrote:
Wbg, Either you or radfield is scum, jwup is town because of the reasons in the next paragraph.

Jwup is town because in my mind scum won't go this far on a person or as far as voting said person.

Im open to change though


It just doesn't add up. He is changing his opinion in the same pace that BH is posting stupid pictures... He also seems very keen on us hammering BH.
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 14 2012 19:52 Bluelightz wrote:
Oh..... Gaiz hammer him or not?

On April 14 2012 19:56 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 19:55 Blazinghand wrote:
[image loading]

BH just claimed scum lets kill him?

On April 14 2012 20:00 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2012 20:00 Blazinghand wrote:
On April 14 2012 19:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
BH you scum?

yes

Hammer him gaiz


All this and he still downplay himself by saying he is useless town and blah blah. He is a good target for the last scum. The time(s?) I've seen him as scum he have been easily found out and makes mistakes when pressured. So this should make sense. He is a bit more active then last time he was scum but maybe he is trying to change it up since last...


"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 12:28 GMT
#233
Oh and why was it a bad move from scum to kill Tunkeg? isn't it almost the same? They just changed the 50/50 lylo to a 1/4 lylo (if they dodge our medic proc n1) on d2?
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 13:05 GMT
#237
I see with the 2nd quote. Must have either misread or wrote the wrong name O_o. But the point is the same.
I'm not excluding anyone at this point and anyone doing so is stupid. wbg could very well be scum. He is certainly good enough to not make obvious mistakes.

Johnny's filter is very bad at this point. He tried to undermine Tunkeg early on calling out a potential scumslip. It was stupid since Tunkeg was obviously (we know that now) not scum. He then voted hinting that he doesn't read or care to read the thread closely - hinting he is scum or just a bad reader.
Then in his last post he basicly posted nothing taking no stance whatsoever. Not the same he had hinted earlier about him thinking Tunkeg was scummy for his "slip". If mattchew knew Tunkeg was about to die it would make sense to pull back on his "tunkeg is scum" statement. It was to late for him to bus BH since he already called Tunkeg the scum one of the two. So he was forced to write he didn't know which of them was scum.

About it being bad. I'm not quite following you Rad. But since done is done there is no point arguing for or against... We can discuss post game.
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 13:37 GMT
#239
I actually don't want to talk to much about the medic. I don't want to give the mafia to much infomation about how we think the townie way to operate would be. I think the medic should just act on his own.
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 14 2012 15:33 GMT
#241
Okay I'm going out for a birthday party. Depending on the level of drunkness tonight It might be a while before I get to post again. So...

I'm voting BH. Then you can hammer when you want.

##Vote Blazinghand

NEXT ONE TO VOTE BH HAMMERS!
- so don't do it unless you feel its time to do the nightphase.
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 15 2012 03:22 GMT
#254
Okay. Just got home and very drunk... Got jpb getting BH killed! Now who is the second scum? I'll try to figutre out after nightpost (Sleeeeeeeeep)
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 15 2012 18:43 GMT
#264
On April 16 2012 01:41 Radfield wrote:
How is it a 50/50 chance to confirm a second player?

If we no-lynch, there is a chance that the doc will die tonight(1/3). That will leave us at a 2v1, exactly the same scenario as if the doctor claims right now. It the doc does not die and does not give us a save, it will give us a 50/50 shot tomorrow. The doc will claim, and mafia will either cc (giving a 50/50) or won't cc (giving a different 50/50).

If the doc makes a save(~1/4 chance?), that means we will have 2 confirmed townies, leaving a 50/50 lynch. NO better than if he doesn't make a save.

If the doctor claims today, we will have the confirmed doc, leaving us a 2v1, no better than our worse case scenario for tomorrow.

It seems to me that no-lynching today is the best chance of victory. If the doc survives we are guaranteed a 50/50. If the doc dies we are no better off than right now. Thoughts?



I agree. Better to have the chance to make it 50/50 tomorrow then to try finding the last scum today when the best scenario possible today is 2v1 (if the last scum doesn't counter claim of course).

About who the last one is... I'm not sure. I won't exclude anyone at this point, but BL is probably on top. He haven't made much sense so far and haven't really chipped in with any thoughts of importance. He also continiously state that he is town. I'm just not sure if he really is the last scum or just not playing well.

Johnny is posting carefully I think. Maybe scum tried to push tunkeg hard in the beginning and that was why he voted and all that jazz. When that didn't work out he went neutral. The fact that he is buddying me rubs me the wrong way.

Then there is you (Radfield) who are making a ton of sense. But that just gives me the willies since I - by reputation - know that you are good at this mafia business. Maybe I'm just paranoid... I'm just scared that you are pulling all the strings here and we are just following you around.

But tomorrow there are less suspects and it should make it easier.
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 16 2012 06:07 GMT
#266
Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.

Who do you think is the last scum?

BL, any thoughts?
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 16 2012 12:48 GMT
#268
On April 16 2012 19:45 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2012 15:07 Dirkzor wrote:
Now Radfield, care to share some of your reads? So far you haven't really beside the tunkeg/BH situation n0.

Who do you think is the last scum?

BL, any thoughts?


Im thinking that Its either Radfield/You, Leaning on Radfield but I think we should no-lynch today, it will make my mind much-much better with 1 more guy out of the equation.


Why me and Radfield now? Is Johnny town?
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
Dirkzor
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Denmark1944 Posts
April 16 2012 13:39 GMT
#270
So your logic says that if for example I die tonight Radfield is the last one? And vice versa? I think its stupid to rule out anyone at this point. What if Johnny dies? Where does it leave you?

You say you are still leaning with Rad as the scummiest of me and him - why?
"HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU ON TOP AGAIN???? HOW DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS????" -Julmust (also, thats what she said)
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