Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia IX - Page 2
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Mementoss
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On March 24 2012 08:04 sc2system wrote: Sorry I hit F5 (refresh but I was clicked out of the window) I am so sorry =S And I am not voting to kill Rise Of Fenix even though I would do becuase his comeback is bad. But I am felling that the mafia is manipulating us and I believe that ROF is the person to kill. I believe that he is a villager so if you want to kill the a person that is lurking but is a villager (i believe) then go ahead. Becuase if we dont kill him that is only a extra person for the mafia to kill. One more thing is that if ROF is mafia it is possible that the mafia are killing one of them so they seem to not to be mafia becuase their vote killed a mafia member. I cant decide so I am voting for a no lynch. ##unvote: virtu ##vote: no lynch No Mafia would ever bus their own team mate day 1, when there is only three mafia -_- | ||
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On March 24 2012 23:11 virtu wrote: I suppose this outcome is about the same as lynching an inactive green, as he was pretty much useless as far as pro-town posting goes...my big worry is that tomorrows lynch will be on sc2system who kinda seems the same as RoF, he could very well be another genuine case of a quite inactive and weak posting townie. If this happens the town numbers will be dwindling rather quickly... Will have a good read through the D1 activity and come up with some thoughts later on today. That is true, we can't commit to any votes based on day 1 opinions we need to make some new ideas based on day 2 activity as well. Sc2system was just so shitty during the end of the voting phase, he just seemed like he was taunting everyone. | ||
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My thoughts on the Nova_Terra case vs BlueyD felt very weak and forced. I read the points and it felt like he was trying to put some scummy behaviour into posts that weren't scummy to begin with. Since when is taking leadership a scum trait, it's a very risky thing to do as scum unless you are good at it as it gives you more connections to more players and allows most posts for people to analyse. Also a couple of the posts were taken out of context of what was happening in the thread at the time, eg, I tried to force BlueyD for an initial vote, before he left. Cause the town needed votes, and vote were not happening. Also I would kinda like prelim votes to start as early as second 24 hours of the day. As at least it provokes discussion and allows plenty of time for defense/ change majority. As we all live in different time zones. Im going out tonight so I probably will not post, until tommorrow. | ||
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Here is pressure: Im going to put a strong case/analysis on you and vote/FoS you Here is not pressure: Im voting you to pressure you, but im not going for the lynch. | ||
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On March 25 2012 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: sc2system has posted plenty of bad posts, I'm fairly certain he won't improve on that any time soon. He's not going to be much use to the town imo. Ninja4ever mentioned he was going to be AFK today so I'll put pressure on him tomorrow. How come you didn't mention Gossemerr? Taking leadership without solid reasoning is a scummy thing to do. You're attempting to get people to follow what you say, and you can convince people by taking a position of authority, even if not earned. Posts can be taken out of context due to the filter option which is what people will usually use to analyze one person's posts, so an advice to anyone analyzing players; make sure to read the thread alongside it so you remember what was on the minds of town at the time. I'm good with the prelim votes starting as early as possible, as long as people will be present later too to change them should things develop. Yeah that is true, but it doesn't make the play any less risky, but even so the posts he quoted had no real showing of taking leadership anyways. I missed that from ninja4ever, thanks for the correction. I mentioned the first two that came to my head, as far as I remember Gossemer posted after the night post correct? He said he had some thoughts on Nova so I'm interested in hearing those when he came back. Imo Night 1 is such an awkward night to discuss things and I find it hard figuring out what to say as you don't wanna put yourself in the spotlight. I'm still trying to figure out the most beneficial things to discuss and how to do it as town. Everything I underlined in your post is a good point and I agree with it. | ||
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On March 25 2012 07:42 Nova_Terra wrote: Mementoss, what do you mean the posts i quoted didnt show much of taking leadership? for instance, 1 - "I'd like to see everyone at least post to confirm activity. Whoever doesn't start posting is already suspicious at worst, and useless at best. We don't want any mafia hiding among the lurkers. I'll personally support lynching an inactive unless something pretty big happens. " 2 - "This means we have to start thinking about who to lynch if there's no convenient lurker." 3 - " Of course we'll modify our opinions based on night 1 and day 2, but for the moment I still think my case against sc2system remains reasonably strong, and if there were a 2nd vote right now I'm sure he would get lynched on the spot." I may be misreading the second one wrong, but even so, the fact that he has been allowed to maintain an authoritative posture without pressure isnt good. Im pretty sure everyone in the thread has said 1 and 2 at the start of the game. 1 -> Be more active, inactives dont help scum hunting. 2 -> Lynch someone with a good case, if not lynch a lurker. 3-> A response to me saying, I dont want the the town getting hung up on day 1 opinions as better information to come, EG just cause we suspected RoF and sc2system, doesnt mean we should nessecarily lynch sc2system day 2. As better cases may come up. I didn't mean for this defense to stretch out for so long and so analysed, cause if he actually ends up flipping mafia my ass will be on the line. But I just think it was a weak case and I didn't really see where you were coming from, and usually on the good cases I do, without being like erm well that is possible I guess. Felt really forced. I;m not saying he's innocent. But this case hasn't made him more scummy in my eyes, no offense. | ||
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1. The focus is off sc2system, we can actually focus on scum-hunting and hopefully get one. 2. Mafia easily coulda killed artanis, hey I never woulda expected FroggyNoddy, then vig is wasted 3. We gain information from the vig claim, that Artanis is in fact a town player if the claim is correct. Im not saying we can confirm off the claim, but its a good tidbit. I need to look into FroggyNoddys death now, probably not too much posting later in day as barcraft. | ||
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Nova_Terra: His meta is completely different. He explained that he changing the way he plays to improve his game. As vanilla town, he had long thought out posts, and pressure posts. In this game I read through his first 2 pages of filter, it 50% spam. The other 50% is dedicated to either responding to people, or asking peoples opinions on things usually leading the town in circles. Honestly, I can't even find anything to quote because its all useless. He seems to be posting in fear and holding back. He posts a case about BlueyD, but it was very forced and weak. Things were taken out of context to make them look scummy, and things that weren't scummy were meant to look scummy. Such as the leadership thing. Here is another thing that makes him seem suspicious. He totally ignored talk about the vig shot, until after it was done. He didn't want to push it cause he knew it would make him suspicious, but he didn't want to stop it because he knew sc2system was town. Maybe I should be suspicious for bringing it up, but as a mafia wouldn't that be too risky to do? I think the people we should look at are the people who ignored the topic who were active, these people being: Nova, Seviro, and BlueyD (but he was defending himself) On March 25 2012 17:10 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, If you are the vig artanis you should have waited. We could have had a free mafia death at some point. At least, sc2system was relatively worthless, so it should be a bit easier to go scumhunting. BlueyD, i kind of think the point of the hit on froggynoddy is in essence exactly what you said. he was off the radar, and its hard to read anything from the hit. I will go into his filter today, but i really dont expect to find much, unless its based on WIFOM. Says you shouldn't have shot, yet didn't say anything during the night when it was actually important. Also in many instances in this game he is constantly apologetic. Doesn't want to get on anyones bad side, and is just slipping by. + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2012 06:47 Nova_Terra wrote: I am so sorry, i got caught up in a game of quake. I really feel bad. Mementoss, the main thing thats changed is that i am trying hard to not let behaviors bother me and change the way i play. I took a lot of flak last time around, and while i am still trying to be active and helpful i dont want to go all out aggression because i will get too caught up like last time. even to the point of deluding myself that i was totally right. I defended artanis because i think that it was an innocent mistake, albeit a bad one. For my reasons previously stated, i am voting for Rise of Fenix. his play is not helping us at all, and i do not find artanis or anyone else (until i analyze the filters hard tomorrow morning) more suspicious. ##Vote: Rise of Fenix On March 24 2012 06:52 Nova_Terra wrote: Wow, i really messed up the time. Once again, sorry all, I promise that i will stick to it for sure next time. I will be on for another hour or so. On March 25 2012 07:23 Nova_Terra wrote: Oh, sorry. I didnt read over the thread while i wrote it and was going by filters. I did understand that he had a reason for it. I just didnt think that the reason made much sense when he had said that he would vote for RoF if he didnt contribute. As Artanis just said, I do find the manner in which he tried to take leadership to be scummy. He has been guiding the town towards a certain lynch from this position, without being forced to post much analysis, which i think is a result of having made a couple posts that seemed to be from an authoritative position. Another thing that i did not like from this is that as he is seemingly capable, he isnt posting as much content as i think he could be, like what i should have noticed about you last game mementoss. Prelim votes is OK with me, but i think that as much of the town is relatively inactive getting a clear consensus right away will be a bit challenging. I also dont want people to leave a prelim vote and forget about it until relatively late in the day because of this inactivity. Please stay active! We cant just let scum lurk this out. On March 25 2012 05:50 Nova_Terra wrote: sorry, got ninja'ed, i meant that to be for BlueyD. Overall his play is just spammy, hes not taking the town forward, his meta is completely off his vanilla. He has had one unique opinion in 3 pages of filter. He seems to be just the one asking the questions, and apologizing. Rather than analysing play and applying pressure. He is taking the town in circles. He is probably in the scum QT posting huge plans, while in here just spamming up the thread. The only reason I would think he was town, is because he defended Artanis's scum slip, and now it is shaping up for Artanis to be town. Other than that, I would be very sure this guy is scum. Maybe he just defended Artanis, to stay away from the same opinion of his scumbuddy seviro, who quickly after Artanis's case on him OMGUS'd and voted Artanis. But that is just WIFOM. ##Vote: Nova_Terra | ||
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On March 26 2012 03:54 Nova_Terra wrote: Ok. I just went over last game briefly. Starting off with, i made an apparently "bad move" by FoS'ing somebody early. Then, i got mad and frustrated, and ended up spamming defense posts and some OMGUS. At least in the pages i read, i was responding to people calling me out and playing aggressively because i was lashing out at people. After last game, i learned that i wanted to play in a more "emotionless" manner where it wouldnt screw me up and cause me to post cases and analysis that goes totally incorrect because my mind wanted to lynch them for even daring to accuse something i did to be bad or wrong. I wanted to play more like Mementoss (which is a bad example as he was scum, but still accurate) but he really did seem like a helpful townie, and he just seemed like his behavior never changed when different things happened. His posts didnt have OMGUS, or terrible cases. I wanted to do just that. And that i feel accounts for my meta. My pressure posts made me feel like i didnt actually do anything. We ended up letting a mafia through and a townie die. Yet, I dont even get how it could have helped. We pressured a townie who posted and then left, and he didnt respond and so he died. Then i received flak for switching my vote off him when i thought he was innocent later. All that this reinforced to me was that i shouldnt play the way my brain thinks. because its suspicious, etc. Enter this game. It starts in a week where i am busy to begin with with many tests, and my brain was scrambled to begin with. And i knew that i wanted to change up my play and play without this emotion crap. Because it was making me scummy. I've been trying to let people know that i agree with them in some issues here, and others there, to make myself as transparent as possible. And then every now and again, when some posts went through me, I went a little into rage mode. Immediately to shut it down, i kinda held back on analysis so i wouldnt let it influence my play, which i realize now makes no sense because by shutting down the analysis it was influencing my play.I was kinda scared about how i would come across because of how i was feeling. Strangely enough, this weekend i have had a relatively busy social schedule. Thats kind of new for me, and i realize this. Then i started missing deadlines (that i myself had made) and just not posting on time, making stupid lapses in judgement (like not reading the thread alongside filters and taking BlueyD's post out of context) as a result of me being out and about and/or playing games with friends. And i feel so bad about it, because i really didnt want to come off as suspicious but because of these little things i found that i was coming across in that manner, at least to myself, and thats why i've been apologising. Its so hard to be transparent when i was screwing up these little things, and i feel bad for making it so hard on the other townies to read me. However, i was spending some time looking over filters. I still maintain that i find the leadership thing to be scummy. I cant remember if i explained why i did in a previous post, but please ask if you want me to again. Dont want to waste space if i dont have to. Looking over the case, it definitely felt to me like it was certainly warranted and some things were suspicious, but it also felt like my case on seviro last game. I dont get why my analysis is apparently so bad, but all i know is that im trying to put tons of effort on these cases and nobodys really agreeing with it and it doesnt do anything.it feels terrible to be putting all the time and feeling into it and having it do nothing. Last night i came in after an exciting day out in the city, and finished my case, and then decided to relax for a little while and watch some MLG. yeah, i did see something about vigilante shot on sc2system, but at the time wasnt concerned about it and actually thought that it made sense as we wouldnt waste the day arguing about him (which i didnt post because people were taking flak for making posts to just agree with people), and only when i was literally falling asleep did i realize that the vigilante shot is pretty much a free kill against mafia if its used right, and didnt feel like getting up to go post to state my opinion. Not because i knew system was town or anything like that, I was just too damn tired around 1 in the morning. Which was another thing that i apologized for as i should have gotten up to do that. So, to end this defense, I want to add my reads on everybody so far. Mementoss: Leaning far town, seems very inno which scares me as thats how i was thinking last game. Seviro: leaning scum, actually. I hope to provide analysis on him tonight or tomorrow during the day. artanis: most likely to be town, at least in my eyes Virtu: Relatively null. I havent really gotten any vibes from him at all. Posts some analysis (of last games play etc) but doesnt really seem to do much with it at least in my eyes. Nova_Terra (yes i am putting myself on my own list): null. hard to read because of not posting thoughts when they seem to arise. Michaelthe: null leaning scummy. makes some posts that i find were pretty good early game, but then he just randomly drops off and doesnt post much. One thing in his favor in my eyes is how he has been playing aggressively. Gossemerr: Null leaning town. I like the aggressiveness however. Ninja4ever.:Null. not a very active player, but he does come and post his thoughts a couple times a day. I dont like his activity however. BlueyD: Null leaning scummy. I still think my points on the position he has been taking in the game are valid, and i find that he got defensive pretty dang fast. Alright lets respond to this defense. First lets start off by underlining everything Nova_Terra said about IRL, and just not read it. Why? IRL stuff has nothing to do with the game, because it can be lied about and no one would know the difference. It is not acceptable as a defense in any form. You shouldn't be scared to post as a vanilla townie. The only way scum is found is through posting your ideas. Re-read your posts from a different perspective to see how it sounds. No excuse to not be posting analysis. Stick to your guns if you think your right, correct yourself if you think you are wrong and explain why the change of thought. No apologizing needed. While you maintain your opinion on leadership, I maintain my opinion that it is bullshit. Not only is it not a good scum argument, it could scare BlueyD and other newer players away from posting, because they don't want this "leadershit" stuff to come back and haunt them. And why BlueyD? I would consider myself in that role more than him. I put out a case that lead to a townie lynch, and was the first to suggest a vigshot on another townie. Would I rathered one or both of them to flip scum? Of course. Am I pissed at myself about it? Not really. It did its job at getting rid of 2 confusing shitty players. Confirmed a townie that was leaning scum in a couple peoples eyes. And took a lot of time that woulda been wasted pushing/pressure sc2system and Artanis. Now we can continue with the game. It gained time and added information, 2 very important resources. About people not agreeing with your case and putting time into it. This game is not being able to be right and finding scum. Its about being able to convince people to agree with your opinions. No matter how much your right about finding scum, if you cant convince the rest of the town, it will not matter. Don't let this discourage you, keep getting better. About people saying its a free kill against a mafia? No it isn't. You realize how hard it would be for Artanis to survive to a point where it actually would be this situation. Hell we mighta lynched him day 2. At least it wasn't wasted in a death, and helped the town and gave information. Which is helpful at anytime. Then to end your defense you post something scummy. Ugh. This list is not helpful to me. If your posting with purpose and concisely. You should be able to know someones read on everyone just by reading their filter. The list basically says who you think is scum and half a sentence explanation. Would it not make more sense to just post a post based on the explanation? This doesn't pressure the players, it doesn't generate discussion and is easy way for mafia to "contribute" while he can just put a townie label on his mafia friends and scum on the popular choices. Im not retracting my vote on you at the moment. Let the discussion continue. I want to see some opinions. We have a relatively good chance of killing a scum today, and it would be huge to do so. | ||
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On March 26 2012 10:20 Seviro wrote: Hey Mementoss, I'd like to hear your opinion on what have been said since your last post and if you feel like Nova's response to your accusation was satisfying. What are your thoughts on Nova/his defense? | ||
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If we lynch Seviro and Seviro flips town, Michael would be highly suspicious and so would Nova Terra. If we lynch Seviro and Seviro flips scum, Michael would be off my radar, and Nova would still remain suspicious. If we lynch Nova_Terra and he flips town, I would be highly suspicious, and ninja4ever would be partially suspicious. If we lynch Nova_Terra and he flips scum, I would be off the radar, and ninja4ever wouldn't be that suspicious. The thing that confused me is day 1 they both defended Artanis slip. Which is something scum I would have thought would jumped all over, if a town had a scum slip. Obviously all 3 mafia aren't going to connect themselves by jumping on it. But at least one would jump on it, and if the town went with it they would get that day 1 active lynch. Michael pushed this point hard, but it seemed like he really believed it, even though the lynch was really risky. The main reason I would pick a Seviro lynch over a Nova_Terra is to get information on Michael, who has a super Null read for me at the moment. I can't figure it/him out. I still think case-wise, the Nova_Terra case seems stronger to me, but Seviro is suspicious based on the context of his actions/posts, more than the actual post content. Gotta go back over the filter, and gotta recheck the meta, as this is a really close call in my head: Seviro (Vanilla Town SNMM VIII): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317174&user=188261 Seviro this game:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322222&user=188261 Nova_Terra (Vanilla Town SNMM VIII): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317174&user=255225 Nova_Terra this game : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=322222&user=255225 @Michael, I feel like your tunnelling Goss hard, He defended the same case twice already. It is stopping you and him from providing further analysis. | ||
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