C9++ Mini Mafia

On March 18 2012 10:31 xsksc wrote:


While I certainly dislike what I've seen of him so far, I hesitated to add a vote to my post on him, simply because I'm not sure if he's posting that way because he's a brand new townie, or if there is a scum motive to his posts. I don't think it's sensible to call for a bandwagon on him THIS early in the game, give it some time (we have practically the whole day left). If nothing much has changed when it comes to lynch time, sure, I'm totally up for lynching fuck out of him. No need to rush into things though, let's use all this time we've got!

On March 18 2012 10:14 xsksc wrote:
Then you posted your early game reads and said you thought Jackal was town, then when you're questioned about it, you instantly became wishy-washy about it.
Reading your posts, I'm getting the feeling that you're posting for the sake of posting something, rather than trying to push a town agenda.

You seem very keen to let everyone know how on the fence you are. Why?

On March 18 2012 15:41 xsksc wrote:
Are you seriously trying to tell me I'm scum because I called him out on bad posting?
What "pre-emptive defense" are you talking about? In that quote I'm talking to VE after he called for votes on johnny, please read the thread properly.


I don't understand what you mean here. It sounds like you're suggesting that I'm not taking my time? Please clarify.

Also, please state why you believe johnny is town, I'd be interested to know.

On March 19 2012 03:23 xsksc wrote:
3) We do have plenty of time, keep in mind this was just a few hours after the game had started, we only had a few people posting. In my post that contains the "meat of your suspicions", I tell VE to put the breaks on a bit. I go on to say why I won't be joining his vote crusade until I've seen more of johnnys posts. Now, for whatever reason, you see it that I'm scummy because of this and you think that Johnny is a scared townie. Why then, would I wait and keep an open mind? Why doesn't scum xsk just throw an extremely easy vote on an extremely easy bandwagon? Because I'm town bro.

4) I ignored them because they're baseless. I've never been wishy-washy. My opinnion does not just change when I'm called out about it, like johnnys did. I don't care if it's unpopular. I would believe that he is 100% scum just from his responses to pressure IF it wasn't his first game, it sucks that we have to account for that, but we do, new players can make giant errors of judgement. I'm going to wait and see how he posts in the second part of day before I make my mind up. That's not being wishy-washy, it's being sensible.

As for the last part, I didn't mean to imply that you are stupid, I think your case is stupid however, especially now that I'm seeing where the meat of it originated.
I did not sidestep anything, I have nothing to pre-emptively defend from, and my stance on the matter should already be pretty obvious.

Now, I'd LOVE to know your reasons for being so sure that johnny is town, please. Because no, you haven't stated why, all you've said was this.
Why do you believe he is a newbie town and not a newbie mafia by the way he reacted? Let's roll with your example, why is he a deer and not a wolf? Both can be caught in headlights.

On March 19 2012 05:00 xsksc wrote:
The problem is, a newbie scum who messed up would make the same exact defense here.

On March 19 2012 10:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
I fail to see how this exercise has in any way indicated that xsksc is scum at all. I fail to see how this indicates anything at all.

On March 19 2012 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
You think what indicates hypocrisy?

On March 19 2012 05:54 slOosh wrote:
And all of this has nothing to do with johnnywup's alignment as you think it does.
It is your actions and motives in interaction with him.

On March 19 2012 10:53 xsksc wrote:
That's going along with your logic of course.

On March 19 2012 13:02 xsksc wrote:

Maybe that's good idea, tunnel vision is never a good thing.

I think you are highly suspicious. Your case on me feels fabricated and nonsensical, and your filter contains nothing but silly attacks on me, you have literally commented on NOTHING else all game.

Seriously, what on earth kind of reason is that to not elaborate on your read? Withholding information because I hadn't responded yet? WHY?
I don't care if your case on me had nothing to do with johnnys alighnment, your case on me is entirely irellevent to the question. I answered your questions (some of them several times -_-), yet you still neglect to answer me every single time I ask you. Why would it have been so difficult to tell me where you got your town read on him from? Scumbuddies?

On March 19 2012 07:01 Tobon wrote:
Tha't fine. And what are your thoughts about VE's vote and then unvote for Johnnywup? And which, out of Sloosh and Xsksc do you think makes the better case?

On March 19 2012 14:08 Tobon wrote:
I still have a pretty null read on JohnnyWup, but he (and I) are the ones who have had the most widespread support for lynching. Nemesis also has had several people gut feel read him as red. These two I'd also be willing to vote for if it means the difference between a lynch and a no-lynch because they are null to me and potentially achievable vote getters.

On March 20 2012 02:05 Snarfs wrote:
First off, I don't think Nemesis is going down today, and I liked how collected he was in responding to my vote so that's off. He didn't get overly emotional or respond irrationally, which is what I would have expected from scum in his position.

##Unvote Nemesis

I liked Nemesis and Probulous's votes on VE. I think since thoses votes we've seen a bit better VE.

On March 20 2012 02:56 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
+Slo0sh VE was an sk in storm so it is not a great example of his town play.

On March 20 2012 02:37 sandroba wrote:
I changed my mind about xsksc

On March 20 2012 13:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah, I'm just idly speculating because there isn't much to do until morning. *shrug*

When he is town he posts like crazy and forces town to follow his reads. He is forthright and pressuring

Then when this is not enough he moves in another direction

On March 19 2012 12:49 slOosh wrote:
EBWOP: scratch that I'm rereading the whole thread. Realized I missed much stuff due to my dialogue w/ xsksc.

On March 21 2012 00:17 Dirkzor wrote:
You were scared that Sandroba was mafia pushing for a mislynch? Sandrobe is at best confirmed town (and was) at worst easy to find scum later on due to his mason claim. So thats bull.

On March 21 2012 00:17 Dirkzor wrote:


About this post. I disagree that it makes sloosh look scummier if jackal flipped town than if Jackal flipped scum.

This post makes perfect sense if Sloosh knew Jackal allignment. We only had 7 votes on Jackal and this was 10 min before lynch. He only needed to convince 1 person to vote differently to get jackal off the hook.

He spends most of this post explaining reasons why it is most likely that Jackal isn't scum. Then ends with:

And a no-lynch is better than a lynch on (someone who I think is) a null read, especially since this is a true bandwagon where the only true read is Sandroba's and mostly everyone is sheeping. Not gonna lynch someone who I don't think is scum, and can't even apply the faulty "we get information out of it" because we won't.

Which is gently telling people to take votes of because the lynch is bad without saying it outright.

On March 20 2012 07:20 Dirkzor wrote:
Last scum:

Probulous
Nemesis
Sloosh

Or 2 therein if only 3 scum.

GG

On March 21 2012 01:55 sandroba wrote:
@sloosh can you please provide your complete and analytical read of nemesis and tobon?

On March 21 2012 00:02 slOosh wrote:
Lastly is the hop off the Jackal - bandwagon issue:
I looked at his filter and from what I understand from the mafia games I have read, jackal himself admits that his reads are really bad day 1. Combine that with the factors that I mention and I saw that it could just be that.

The reason I didn't want to sheep Sandroba was because the bandwagon was forming really fast and I was scared that he could have been mafia pulling off an easy mislynch with no repercussions. I was willing to sheep on Snarfs because I could see how he could be mafia and that wasn't a 10 minute before deadline bandwagon, which allowed for additional information input and discussion and a possible change in vote. I didn't have that luxury with Jackal and so I decided no lynch was better than a null read lynch.

Now with the Jackal flip I'd be totally content in letting him direct votes and such. But before that he didn't really respond to my questions with his xsksc read and so I was unsure if this was just his style or intentionally not giving his reads, hence the hesitation to do a total sheep (opposed to partial sheep when I could see for myself why Snarfs looked somewhat suspicious).

On March 18 2012 10:28 Nemesis wrote:

Mind explaining your vote?

I think that right now you guys are jumping on an easy bandwagon. johnnywup is a new player and this is his first game. Newbie mafias are more likely to lurk and be wishy washy with their post as you say. But he did take a stance that he thought jackal was town, which means that he is not avoiding the issue at all.

On March 19 2012 01:39 Nemesis wrote:

UMM NO, that is very horrible reasoning. People get defensive no matter what their role is when put under pressure. Take a look at chaoser in Mafia Factory where he was town and got lynched for being overly defensive. You are doing the same stupid shit here.

On March 19 2012 07:35 Nemesis wrote:
##Vote: Probulous

As I said before, you are usually a lot more helpful as non-scum, and you are usually a bit spammy with your posts. But in here you've only posted once.

On March 21 2012 14:14 johnnywup wrote:
And if you were roleblocked, what is your role? you're probably going to get lynched so if you want any chance of not being lynched you have better give your role RIGHT NOW. and thats a very small chance of not being lynched as well

On March 21 2012 16:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
@SlOosh
This isn't so much about the fact that you didn't sheep sandroba. Games don't have that many blind sheep. Jackal made himself suspicious enough to gather that many votes by being inactive. The fact that you were willing to "sheep" sandroba on a Snarfs lynch "because town sandroba is boss", yet when sandroba calls for someone else, you vote for "no-lynch" over a null read is suspicious no matter what you give as your reasoning. Jackal was suspiciously silent, and this lynch didn't happen just because sandroba waved a magic wand. Your reasoning for not being on the lynch is inconsistent with your previous votes.

On March 21 2012 14:13 johnnywup wrote:
so, sloosh, whos the scum we should pressure?

On March 21 2012 22:36 Nemesis wrote:
My main reason for voting you is this:


This is inconsistent with your previous vote and previous read:

Mind addressing that. You mentioned previously that you thought sandroba was town, and hopped in the bandwagon against snarfs. But when he pushed against Jackal, you suddenly changed your mind and thought sandroba was scum?

On March 22 2012 01:00 sandroba wrote:
@SlOosh Can you please claim your role? I'm starting to get this weird feeling that you are town and probulous is scum.

On March 20 2012 02:37 sandroba wrote:
Remember people, the ones that we are really looking after are people that are actively avoiding to say anything that could be considered scummy, trying to blend in and hide, while not actually doing anything thing useful

On March 22 2012 05:15 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
I am about to take a trip to indonesia and slap my other head across the face with a wet fish for out-lurking me when i am still alive in another game.

Nemesis what is your current stance on VE?

On March 22 2012 06:56 Snarfs wrote:
@slOosh:

Can you point me to where your opinion changed on xsksc and what your reasoning is for no longer believing he is scum (or at least him not warranting your top 2 picks)?

On March 21 2012 00:02 slOosh wrote:
shift onto Snarfs / other stuff:
I realized that my focus on xsksc led me to miss a lot of stuff going on in the thread. Which is what I tend to do when I tunnel and as effort to improve myself as a player I stopped.

Notice that this is the turning point in which I redirect my focus onto Snarfs / other stuff.

On March 20 2012 03:05 slOosh wrote:


Could you explain your read on xsksc?
I want to improve my scum-hunting skills and I feel like I could learn much from you.

On March 22 2012 07:53 Probulous wrote:
The only one who was really pushing [VE] was me. Sure sandroba was a little skeptical of you but you were in no danger of being lynched. The upside was minimal compared to losing a scum buddy.

On March 22 2012 08:39 Probulous wrote:


Really?

Come on son there is no need for that. I agree with Johnny that you have been useless this game. Laya, I don't expect anything from Bluelightz but you are a decent scum-hunter. Shape up.

On March 22 2012 09:52 Probulous wrote:
After we lynch slOosh we lynch TIPD.

On March 22 2012 09:40 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
I'm dead in Aperture Mafia so I can put more time to this now.

On March 22 2012 09:52 Probulous wrote:
Here we have a nice little attempt at outing the Cop (assuming we have one) (Klicky). Follow the cop only works if we have a medic, with two roleblocks claimed it is possible that instead of a medic we have a town roleblocker. Then comes a blatant bandwagon vote for slOosh (Klicky) and a useless put down of both VE and myself (Klicky).

On March 22 2012 16:50 Dirkzor wrote:
Oh my. Why did slOosh keep quite during the probulous interrogation and now when the focus is back on himself he starts posting more?

On March 22 2012 18:59 Probulous wrote:


Fair point but you can't argue that I wasnt pushing VE.

On March 22 2012 18:59 Probulous wrote:


You are really stretching here. A bandwagon of any sort is scummy because you don't provide any reasoning for your vote. As for TIPD, I spent all morning defending myself from accusations I wasnt scum hunting. When I got the chance I took a look at those on the Jackal wagon and he jumped out at me.

On March 21 2012 08:15 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
We have agreed to vote slOosh

##Vote: slOosh

On March 19 2012 14:30 slOosh wrote:
Has everyone just learned to ignore TIPD (Toad_in_Pink_Dress)'s posts?
Contents of filter:
- bunch of fluff
- expression of suspicion on Tobon but no actions indicating a desire to make a better judgement as indicated by general inactivity and his lack of response to this quote

- a desire to lynch Nemesis without backing up with any reasoning

On March 21 2012 14:06 slOosh wrote:
Concerns right now:
TIPD is lurking hard and threw a vote on me without any reasoning. As it is I think the whole town is lynching me, so you will find scum on that list - and this is the same concern I had about jackal lynch - there isn't any voting pattern analysis but people sheeping and bandwagoning without repercussions.

On March 22 2012 18:59 Probulous wrote:
Do you have any issue with case itself? No only with my apparent change of mind. Well yes my mind did change because I actually read his filter carefully. What is your problem here?

From phone

On March 22 2012 23:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, the way I see it we're either flipping slOosh or we're no-lynching.

##Unvote: Probulous
##Vote: slOosh

Not sure how I feel about it, given the roleblock claim. If it's legit, initial reaction is that he's probably town...but going back over his filter, he doesn't do anything like blue-slip or lurk or anything. I can't imagine why scum would roleblock him.

So, if I had to guess, I'd say that it was town who roleblocked him and scum who roleblocked me. Obviously speculation, but it at least puts my mind at ease about flipping slOosh...the chances are much greater that slOosh is scum (in my eyes) since it appears that town RB'd slOosh.

If anyone has any serious reservations about slOosh flipping, now is the time guys. If we want to switch targets, we need to start talking about it now. I'm okay with slOosh flipping, myself.

On March 22 2012 23:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's not about proving your innocence at this point - it's about finding a viable different candidate. If you really want to save yourself, convince town to lynch someone else. Just coming in and asking everyone "how you can prove your innocence" is ridiculous - because even if you followed the instructions to the letter, that doesn't do anything to "prove your innocence" because you asked.

So is Probulous your lynch of choice?

On March 21 2012 08:06 Probulous wrote:


This is my feeling too. I think Sloosh is mafia and Nemesis has been pushing Sloosh as well. I find it hard to believe that mafia would be bussing Day 2 given they lost Jackal with the first lynch. I'll take another look and see if I can find anything.

##Vote: Sloosh

On March 22 2012 10:53 Nemesis wrote:
You know what, I think I'll stick to my sloosh vote.

On March 23 2012 00:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
To be fair, as sandroba (I think) explained, scum are going to bus the shit out of their teammates today. Whether you're scum or not, if a wagon gains immediate traction as yours did, scum have no choice but to go along at least at first.

On March 23 2012 00:39 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
Just for explainig guys, I will switch to Probulous if you guys decide to lynch him.

On March 23 2012 01:09 Tobon wrote:


Why would this be damning to Probulous? It's certainly _possible_ that both you and TIPD are scum. What's the supposed inconsistency here?

On March 22 2012 23:23 slOosh wrote:


Based on your reads that both me and TIPD are scum, you are willing to believe all of the following:
1) As a scum team we decided that one of us should bandwagon Jackal and the other one should stay off and draw attention onto themselves
2) As a scum team, now that I am suspicious in D2 we decide that we should do the softest bus ever and the best possible way to do it without suspicion is

3) As a scum team, I was willing to point out that TIPD was lurking on D1 and draw attention to him unnecessarily

and again when in the midst of intense scrutiny the first thing I choose to voice is my concern of TIPD's lurking again

On March 22 2012 07:08 Tobon wrote:
I'd rather lynch slOosh, and I'll tell you why: the role block claim.

I think Probulous and slOosh are both equally probable scum. And I see VE switching targets so that we won't flip slOosh, just as soon as the discussion about how unlikely 2 role blockers are died down a bit.

So if slOosh is scum, we lynch scum (yay!), but if slOosh is town, we lynch VE tomorrow.

On March 23 2012 06:59 Snarfs wrote:

Kinda T_T

On March 23 2012 07:19 Snarfs wrote:

And me and johnny?

On March 22 2012 23:23 slOosh wrote:

I can't, but that is not what you initially said - "the only one who was really pushing [VE]".
Stretching the truth to look town is something town don't need to do.

On March 23 2012 07:50 johnnywup wrote:

what do you mean missing kp? theres been one night, so one kill, right? unless i misunderstand something :0

On March 23 2012 07:52 Dirkzor wrote:
How did I become a suspect? O_o

I'm sorry I wasn't here for the lynch but I put my vote where I thought it would find scum. Many of you were in doubt aswell. Anyway..

Nemesis is someone who has to die before lylo. Blue roles do your job!

Btw this doesn't confirm slOosh in any way really. If both probulous and slOosh are scum it would make perfect sense to just bus eachother. Whoever gets lynched the other gets a lot of towncred. slOosh was fast to point to himself as confirmed town (or 99%). Just saying.
A thing talking against this theory is that they might have tried to push the lynch towards nemesis more?

On March 23 2012 08:25 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
Dumb switch 1




Dumb switch 2

On March 23 2012 07:53 Nemesis wrote:
Shit, I didn't make it in time for the lynch.

I don't know what to say at this point, I know I am rather looking quite scummy now.

On March 23 2012 08:36 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
Dumb so townie i start to question what the point of analysis is.

On March 23 2012 07:59 Dirkzor wrote:

I know. But my statement is still valid. Even is Nemesis is town how can you justify lynching anyone else then him giving how day 1 + 2 went down?

On March 23 2012 08:44 Nemesis wrote:
Obviously you look town now. I was thinking that either you or probulous was scum day 2, but not both of you.

As to who I would lynch right now I'm not sure, but I would take a look at Tobon for not being on the day 1 lynch. I find it more likely that the remaining mafia bussed their teammate on day 2 than on day 1 as I think everyone else in day 2 who weren't on probulous are town.

I think I can get Sloosh onside, he can play really well but has a major tendency to tunnel. He just needs a little support.

VE is dangerous because he is prodding people and getting correct town reads on him, plus he will most certainly be a medic protect option tonight given his early death in the last game he played and his vocal nature.

On March 25 2012 01:14 wherebugsgo wrote:
had you guys fakeclaimed off the jackal death and become "confirmed" (I can 100% guarantee that they would never think a scum claim+counterclaim of cop would ever in a million years happen) then killing jcarl might have been okay.