Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VIII - Page 2
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
| ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
Janaan I dont really think that Firmtofu is more suspicious than say Cosine, but Cosine had a chance to come and explain. if thats the plan for a lynch though, i dont disagree. ##Unvote Eleanthas ##Vote FirmTofu This will likely be my last post for tonight, see you in the morning | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
| ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
| ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 13 2012 06:22 InfernOokami7 wrote: @Nova_Terra, for someone so opinionated about the everyone else's absence from this tread, I'm surprised you have such little to say about FirmTofu's absence, only than to say that you're not confident in with the everyone trying to lynch him. Why is that? I feel that FirmTofu's first few comments were to produce discussion from those who hadn't contributed to the game (myself included on that list). I don't find fault in that initial posting, but his absence from that point is suspicious. His post drew attention to everyone else in the thread, while he could sit back and watch everyone on that list try to make a case for themselves not to get lynched. ##Vote: FirmTofu Oh, simply because he was one of the few early posters that generated discussion, and therefore i was more suspicious of those who didnt. I feel that he is being sufficently pressured to the point of where if he was lurking, he would say something, and therefore i find it more likely that RL got in the way and that he should be given the chance to respond. Also, its going a little too easily. Eleanthas, i think i finally got it right! Ok. i decided that i dont want a lynch on tofu, yet. lemme quickly find someone not likely to be voted so i can put a vote on them (not actually trying to lynch you, no hard feelings) | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision. Unvote: FirmTofu Vote: Gossemerr | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
##Unvote: FirmTofu ##Vote: Gossemerr | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 13 2012 07:19 Gossemerr wrote: You realize you can just vote for a no lynch? OH, damn, my bad. when i saw that voting is mandatory, i just assumed that meant if nobody has majority it goes to no lynch. sad about tofu's death. I do think kori's posts were a bit strange, and it definitely merits further discussion. Also, the general lack of posts from him doesnt help his case. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote: So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list: - Eleanthas - koritora - cosine What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote: GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote: You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote: I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote: Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra Okay, i dont have time for a long post right now, but i will come on in a few hours and hopefully respond to everything in this post. Lets just think about this for a second. Forgive me if i am wrong, but Sbrubbles didnt really present us with anything other than suspicion about me. he did it twice, i believe, and both times it was noticable. Then he dies. Of course it makes sense to suspect me, but Thats just the point. What would the mafia gain from his death if he died? nothing really, and his only big suspicion was on me. Therefore i would seem suspicious. its like framing without a framer, i guess. I voted for Gossemerr instead of tofu because i thought tofu was a townie and therefore not the target to lynch. it makes sense to avoid lynching someone you suspect as townie. By thinking Eleanthas i meant that i agreed with whoever suggested a vote on him unless he stepped up, which he did. I meant that i would probably go with him of nothing else came up and he didnt post. I apologise, i should have clarified what i thought more. sorry, i will post in a couple hours, just dont have the time, and i hate typing on an ipad. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote: GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote: You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote: I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote: Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra I think you have been misunderstanding many of the points I’ve been making. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Yes, that is accurate except for the part about the town being frustrated by the town not agreeing with me. I was frustrated that people found me suspicious for the ways that I found Cosine suspicions, but then immediately used my same logic to find him suspicious. I found it hypocritical. It is true that I was mad that the town didn’t think like me, yes. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. Meh, I didn’t consider it semi random as he made a suspicious first post as well and appeared to be lurking. See last post on the “thinking him” thing, I think you just interpreted “thinking him” wrong as I should have clarified it more. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Sorry, maybe shouldn’t have used the word ‘The’ in ‘The Blame’. He was putting blame on me, not tossing it from him to me. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. Uhhh, sorry? He wanted MORE explanation about my early FOS? I thought he was accusing me for repeatedly defending myself for it. I think that I explained my early FOS well enough. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Please clarify. I do not understand what you mean. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. I still maintain that the thing with Eleanthas as a misunderstanding where you considered my ‘Im thinking’ to not being to point a finger, Whereas I meant that that would probably be my vote if nothing happened to clarify. I was not asking for anyone else to point a finger at him, etc. I find that my clarification of my FOS from beforehand was enough, and therefore I feel that he had an obligation to read the thread through fully, especially if he had just arrived. And he did ignore a few of my posts, as I directly talked to him and he didn’t respond. I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. Well I think/thought that my logic on FirmTofu was accurate, and therefore didn’t want to vote for someone that I was relatively sure was town, especially with the lynch going so easily. I was hoping that enough people would agree with my logic that they would stop their votes, but it was too close to the lynch deadline. in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. You mean my “play” of not voting for the townie, correct? If so, I agree that that was a nice play, as the town’s general goal is to not lynch townies. Of course, Phagga only said that he was sure we could find 1-2 scum in that list, therefore leaving 1-2 out as well, so I consider that as touching on us as well. I find it sad that tofu died, I really thought that my reasoning was enough for people to cancel votes, but it was probably a bit WIFOMy. Anything else? Many of the points you made are based on WIFOM, and therefore I apologize if I was not able to respond to those in a way that cleared it up, as I have trouble defending against WIFOM cases. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 14 2012 21:52 Mementoss wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote: GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late! It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote: You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote: I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote: Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra Wow, long post. I also was surprised when I seen this mafia kill. I immediately thought the same thing that mafia kills are usually motivated by people who on the right track for hunting scum. The only person to put relatively any pressure on NovaTerra was Sbrubbles. Of course this is just WIFOM situation, as the mafia could just be trying to mess with the town there is no way of knowing. But I do find it interesting the way NovaTerra replied. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote: What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. This reply is very defensive. He FoS'd him, but in an aggressive manner to get the whole town on board early, at least for a thought. By being aggressive and FoS an early proof of innocence, doing what is good for the town.Also by the same most people would be thinking that no mafia would be that aggressive early game. Is that what he wants us to think? Then he goes on to state Eleanthas is his most suspicious at the moment. Then bam, change of though Sbrubbles is his suspicious now. OMGUS sorta attitude. You think i'm suspicious well that makes you suspicious kind of defensive manuever. I have the same thoughts on this as Seviro, basically, but i'll quickly go through it. 1. "Throws blame on others." Why would he do this? No one suspected Sbrubbles. 2."Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion" - At that point discussion was discussion, and overall your argument wasn't exactly strong, so it was more like disagreeing not , not understanding. 3. "Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness" - Trying to give a reason for your defensiveness if you were town 4. "Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious." - I think he was just against early FoS because he wasn't confident in his read on you without more posts. Not because he didn't want to bring further attention to himself. Also as stated before, the vote change by Nova_Terra was weird. He didn't push the town to get off of Tofu's case until it was too late to lose majority. Does this make him innocent, just because he didn't have a final vote for a townie. Well it looks like that is the way he was trying to make it look. Also I noticed something else that was a bit weird. Maybe just a coincidence. The connection between Phagga and Nova_Terra 1. Only 2 people to have suspicion on Sbrubbles. Phagga and Nova_Terra. I've already shown Nova's so here is Phaggas post. + Show Spoiler + On March 12 2012 18:33 phagga wrote: Where is FirmTofu? He posted a lurker list 5 hours into the game (which is VERY early for a lurkerlist) and has not posted since then. If we would hold him up to his own standard, he is lurking very hard. You can see his filter here I read through all the filters, and besides FirmTofu the following people are rather suspicious to me: - Eleanthas (Only posted a one liner) - koritora (not posting anything of value) - sbrubbles (only two posts in rapid succession where he basically calls out lurkers and fluff, only to disappear again). IMO, if there is a DT out there, these four would be possible check targets. What do you guys think about it? Also, if none of them adds anyhting significant in the next 6 hours, my vote will go to one of these four. Soft deadline 8 hours before is ok with me. Also, as a heads up, I generally won't be around on deadline, as it is at 3 am in my timezone. By final vote will normally be casted around 5 to 3 hours before deadline. --> Also maybe trying to push a waste of DT check onto Sbrubbles? 2. Another agreeance on the DT check, again maybe trying to lure out a Blue or waste a check? + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote: I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. 3. First to defend Nova_Terra + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2012 18:47 phagga wrote: Seviro, while I like your analysis on a first glance, I would like to note that you start your case with some heavy WIFOM. We have no idea what the motives of the mafia are for killing sbrubbles. We can only speculate. And if we speculate wrong, we might start hunting and lynching people for the wrong reasons, we will get WIFOM, it will create more uncertainty than facts. The only ones profiting from it will be the mafia. There is no benefit in guessing what the mafia is up to. Also, it does not matter. Whatever the mafia wanted to achieve, we just need to make sure that we can lynch them, then we win. However, I think your case is not only base on WIFOM, so I will go through it later when I have more time. --> Doesn't really go into the case, just dis regards it because it has some WIFOM. When really, there was a lot of WIFOM but there were some other good points too, that he didn't post his opinion on. Adds some fluff about trying to guess what the mafia is up to is useless. Well usually finding what the mafia are up to leads to them, and it all starts making sense. Or you find a mafia, then you find what they were up to and make a connection that way. So yes eventually mafia motives are relevant. 4. Leaves Nova_terra out of his analysis because of the vote switch. + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote: So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas Even though the vote switch does not prove innocence or town so this seems a bit odd. Unless it was pre-planned. FirmTofu already had the majority, so Nova_Terra could switch. Phagga could then post an analysis post, to look town, while leaving out any analysis of his scum buddy Nova_Terra, without looking suspicious because of the vote switch. These are just some things I noticed and my thoughts for now. But as of now, I'm leaning towards ##FOS: Nova Terran Hi, just wanted to clarify a couple of things before you go through my defense. after you do, please feel free to ask me any more questions, as long as they havent already been defended against, i would be glad to answer them. The thing about why Sbrubbles' post was suspicious was not a defensive maneuver. I was attempting to state that his post was suspicious as well, not because he accused me or anything. 1. If Sbrubbles had been mafia, I do think that a likely strategy would be to try to blame other people for mistakes. Which is why i pointed out the blame thing. 2. I did find that he had seemingly not understood my posts, as he was referencing questions that i thought i had already answered completely. The fact that there was barely any discussion happening notwithstanding. 3. Of course, there is a reason for defensiveness, as being thought of as a likely mafia who could easily be lynched is a bad thing, and therefore i was showing why i defended myself. 4. Probable, but at least by my logic his post was enough against me to warrant further investigation. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
Yeah, i noticed phagga supporting me and i just assumed it was because he thought i was town, as i am. Wasnt sure if he was trying to buddy me, or just thought like me or something, but I was pleased that at least someone agreed with my status as an active townie. He did say though that he was busy and would go through his case when he had the time and did not dismiss it. The thing about the DT check was so that the DT wouldnt be alone in deciding who to check, and would be able to secretly know what other towns though. I still stand by my opinion of Sbrubbles having seemed suspicious. Especially so as he seemed to have ignored my posts multiple times, where he was referenced in them and where i directly asked him to share some thoughts. I still feel that i am one of the people who is providing the most pro-town ideas and thoughts. Maybe my brain just works strangely. You are entirely correct to question my wishy washy vote switch, which i immediately admitted, and i feel that that was the most/only really suspicious thing i did. However, i feel that it was the right move, and it was as he was town. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
As i was looking through his filter, i often saw a trend. he would post something questioning somebody else, to get their reads on everything, and then not post much about his thoughts. Also, as a way of avoiding posting much about his own thoughts, he would say that nothing seems to have changed, or something of the sort. Janaan, I would love it if you could make a post explaining your reads on people so far. too much happens by way of your posts and not enough happens that questions your posts. Note that this is not an FOS. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
Mafia literally doesnt even have to post as enough town is lurking as well that they can just sit back and watch townies clobber eachother because the only ones that get accused are the ones speaking. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 15 2012 03:26 Janaan wrote: At the moment, there's been so much limited activity, I'm finding it hard to get decent reads off. I'm still waiting for an answer from Koritora, but at the moment, he's my best scum read for the reasons that I presented earlier. Phagga is looking pretty townie to me, his posts make a lot of sense to me and seem to have the right intentions behind them. Nova_Terra, I don't really know what to think about you, to be honest. It seems like you're trying to be active and helpful, but things like your defense of your actions on day 1 being very defensive and emotionally charged don't quite sit right with me. Neutral for the moment. Seviro actually looks a bit scummy to me, not enough to come out with any sort of case on him, but I'm keeping close watch on him. Bits like after Day 1 ended, implying that we should simply wait until after Night 1 is over before doing anything, wasting 24 hours, doesn't look good to me. Then his accusation of Nova_Terra was full of WIFOM argument, and possibly confirmation bias. Mementoss has a townie feel to me, he's been a fairly active poster so far, and seems to be speaking his mind on what's going on. The other players, I don't have nearly enough posts from them to make any kind of read. The trouble is that it's quite possible for all the mafia to be in this category, but we can't know for sure until they decide to start posting. Okay, fair enough. I cant help but feel like we are doomed unless people start posting. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
From the way i had seen it, there was ample time left for people to switch their votes after i made mine. as most players in this game are in North America, i believe, it made sense to me that they would see my post at a time when most of them would be online, around 6pm ESTish. I attempted to post the best defense of him that i could, which was hard due to his inactivity. The reason why i did not come up with another case or present any defense for him earlier was that i had been hoping that he would come and post a defense of himself when he learned he was under fire. I really thought that it might influence the result, and my thinking was, if he did get lynched, at least i didnt vote for a townie. About the lurkers, you know someone has really been allowed to lurk when you cant even remember a single opinion that they had, and to me that person i remember nothing about is inferno. there is one or two other players that i dont get good vibes from, but i dont really have any non-WIFOM points so i shall have to wait with that until more posts are made. Anyway, If it does come down to those three you said, i would prefer an Inferno lynch, but a Kori lynch is a-ok with me too. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
One thing i just dont like from that post is the kind of. Oh im new sorry i know now i did bad kind of attitude. once again, not a big deal at least to me, however. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
I think that he had not fully read the thread, or at least fully understood it, as he did not seem to understand why i was impaitently pushing on cosine, which i felt i had explained and accounted for. Even if it is an "excuse for what i had posted earlier" i find that calling something inexperienced/carelessness to be discrediting. to me, this was not about defending myself there as it was just pointing out not to discredit anyone's posts in that manner because once a post is thought of as inexperienced or careless it doesnt carry the same weight, at least to me, as one that hasnt been called out in any way. my point was that that kind of post, at least in my mind, shouldnt have been made. | ||
Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
I think i mentioned the connection between myself and phagga in an earlier post. I am not voting yet as there is still time for a well made case, but when i do, It will be on InfernOokami. | ||
| ||