EPTI see that you have now posted nttea. Everyone's going to want to know what you have to say, and what your reads are on day 3. I'm still favouring a lynch on you right now.
Newbie Mini Mafia IV - Page 41
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k2hd
Cayman Islands78 Posts
I see that you have now posted nttea. Everyone's going to want to know what you have to say, and what your reads are on day 3. I'm still favouring a lynch on you right now. | ||
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k2hd
Cayman Islands78 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
On March 02 2012 16:20 DoYouHas wrote: First and foremost comes the lynching of nttea. He lurks all game, drops a vote in the voting thread without saying anything in this thread. And just happens to vote for a townie. There is no backing your way out of that. He is gone tomorrow. wait what townie did i vote on?! also spent what feels like an eternity sifting through posts and im just lost at this shit... if there is something good there im not the guy that will find it, plenty of time before next lynch though  regarding the accusations against me I'll just plead insanity, and please keep looking for others even if you think im scum there's still 3 more to find. Weak shit i know im sorry but it's also still true. | ||
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
Now moving on to more important things. I DO NOT support a nettea lynch tomorrow. Look at what nearly every single player has said - nttea MUST be the next lynch. There is zero opposition to a nttea lynch. What this means that its either one of these 2 situations - either he is a noob townie who apparently isnt trying very hard, or a mafia getting bussed - which makes zero sense since no one is going to get any sort of credit bussing a vote ninja. Besides, this is a little WIFOMy, but as scum I expect that you would feel a sort of responsibilty towards your team, knowing who they are from the start and being able to communicate with them. I seriously doubt that igabod would go inactive like this with a scum team assisting him and nttea would post this sort of scummy crap. Besides, lynching nttea would simply allow mafia to lurk by and pile on nttea as he is "obv scum", regardless of what his alignment is. The lynch is a valuable tool, and vote patterns and such are an extremely useful tool to hunt down interactions between players, and enable us to spot scummy actions. I would not want to waste a lynch, especially a crucial one on day 3, on what I believe is a bad townie. Sure, he could be scum playing the overly noob card ... but I highly doubt it at this point. I have a couple of suspisions. My primary one is actually that DoYouHas is scum. Firstly, I have already stated I am really suspicious of the way he dealt with Alderan on day 1. Despite thinking that Steve is the better lynch, he decides to leave his vote on igabod, stating that he does not trust Alderan, primarly because he got "burned" by Ald last game. This logic is clearly bullshit. He, at this point, has no reason to suspect Alderan - besides knowing that Alderan's scum play is good. At first, I thought that this might have been fear of Ald's scum play - and he instictively worried about that possibility. However, thinking further, I believe that a townie DYH would have made a case during the day, and pushed it hard, if he indeed did feel Alderan was scum. However, he did no such thing, instead waiting for night and letting a no-lynch happen. Another thing that makes me suspicious is his stance on igabod. He states this on igabod: We don't know igabod is getting modkilled. There is every chance that he will be replaced. Because of this I still think that he is our best lynch option. Why would he think this? For one, it is more often than not a townie which goes inactive and has to be replaced, and Im sure that DYH knows this. Yet, he still feels that igabod will be the best lynch, simply because he will be replaced. It makes no sense, and I think phagga sums it up nicely here. This argumentation is absolutely stupid. If igabod is getting replaced, then he was not playing the game at all. Therefore him lurking does not say anything at all about his alignement. He might even be a blue for all we know, and some real life matter keep him from playing. His case on Alderan rang more alarm bells for me. A large portion of it lies on how Aldrean has been attempting to "buddy" him, which I feel is complete bullshit. Again, this seemed (at first) to be him subconciously being afraid of Ald's scum play, but in reality, I believe that he is more likely to be fearmongering here. Hyde also gives a good explanation why DYH's venture into the speculation of scums actions in day 1 in SNMMIV to aglin with scum's motives this game. I see no parallel at all between these two games, and I believe that DYH should be able to see this. This is most likely an attempt to derail the topic at hand, and indulge town in a useless topic for quite a while. Thankfully it didnt succeed though. Gumshoe's lynch is another area for suspision. Although he was on the "right" side of the lynch, I believe that it is a null tell, and may even be an indication of scum, considering the number of votes that were on gumshoe. The reason for this is that scum will want to split up their votes, and it is rather likely that he is doing what Alderan did with DYH's own lynch last game - claiming that he didnt think gumshoe was scum and getting some towncred for the lynch. Besides this, he is also really wishy washy about gumshoe. He states that he believes he is town based on his similar posting style - something which I feel is completely different (but that might be personal opinion, so w/e), but instead does not push against the lynch hard, citing that gumshoe might in fact be scum using his town meta as a cover. That is a bloody weak reason and we know it, and it is never enough for one to doubt one's innocence based on that and that alone. I would expect a townie in that sort of situation (thinking that a townie was to be lynched) to push against the lynch hard, and not apply some soft defense that wont stick. It seems that he wants the lynch to go through - yet doesnt want to be lynched for it. And the slip nttea found, listed here for your viewing pleasure, is just lol. So apparently k2hd is townie now? On March 02 2012 23:29 nttea wrote: wait what townie did i vote on?! -useless shit that makes 0 sense- Honestly, I could go on, as I feel that DYH's logic this game is really off. I believe that he is good, and should know better, which is also why I believe that he is scum. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
@k2hd Sorry I missed your post against me, I will address it when I get home. | ||
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
If you do think so, who do you want to lynch? | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
As far as who I would like to lynch, I would like to take a look at DoYouHas (as you stated) and Chocolate. Both of them were giving off some bad vibes yesterday, which I pointed out here. I'll formalize my thoughts and opinions later. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
If I die, please dont use my death to speculate the reason for me being shot. This goes for anyone else being shot of course, dont use wifom as a primary reason to push people. Im also fairly suspicious of testsubject due to his day 1 involvment with DYH (steveling incident, harped enough on that). Alderan with his recent lurking makes me really suspicious - post more. I also find everyone that jumped onto the "nttea needs to be lynched tomorrow" train without a second thought is scummy as ****. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 02 2012 23:29 nttea wrote: wait what townie did i vote on?! also spent what feels like an eternity sifting through posts and im just lost at this shit... if there is something good there im not the guy that will find it, plenty of time before next lynch though regarding the accusations against me I'll just plead insanity, and please keep looking for others even if you think im scum there's still 3 more to find. Weak shit i know im sorry but it's also still true. I thought you voted for gumshoe, sorry. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
I don't care what nttea's alignment is, I don't care how well intentioned he sounds right now. He lurked for an entire day, after replacing a modkill, and then ninja voted. That means he gets lynched, period. I will not suffer that kind of play in any game I am in. The is the one instance where I will policy lynch the hell out of anyone. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 03 2012 01:31 ghost_403 wrote: I agree with zelblade, a nttea lynch is not optimal town play. If nttea had ninja voted for gumshoe, I would be calling for his lynch right now. But he didn't; he threw it on a random player. As far as I can see, his vote had no benefit for the scum, without going into full WIFOM mode. That's not why a nttea lynch isn't optimal. It is wifom to say what benefits scum or not because we don't know k2hd's alignment. A nttea lynch is a bad idea because it doesn't pressure anyone and allows easy "contribution" - I pointed it out previously when I explained why I held back on my opinions On March 01 2012 01:55 slOosh wrote: First off is the flushing of lurkers. I held off on commenting because of this exact reason, and we see nttea come out, sheeping my case. Could be a newbie townie unsure of how to contribute or a mafia supporting a mislynch, or a mafia busing a teammate under scrutiny to take attention off of themselves. Its good that people are keeping watch of everyone, and a few people have called him out. Please stay on that, and for everyone else keep an eye on that (it is counter productive if we all turn our attention to that since if case he is newbie town we just wasted the whole day, and it might turn into easy bandwagon on him, and we don't need whole town to pressure lurkers) It is far from optimal as we are using one of our strongest tools - the lynch - and wasting it with all possible discussions and content by going straight for nttea. Even if he does flip scum (which I doubt), we would have wasted so much time and attention and it would be like a day 1 all over again. That being said, nttea please continue posting and clarify your posts. What exactly is your stance on Alderan? What do you think about k2hd and DYH? DYH: Before D2 I've been on the fence with DYH as on one side it does look like he is trying to contribute and drive discussion, but on the other he is flip flopping a lot and seems really unsure of his reads. I understand your desire to lynch the hard lurker - but I really don't want N2 and D3 to be dominated by discussion of the validity of policy lynches. My questions for you still remain: Did you think that k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe? Do you still think that he is a good lynch suspect for tomorrow? We need as much info as we can get and we can pick up discussion on nttea lynch if you still feel inclined to do during D3, but it doesn't make sense to do it now at night since you could die and mafia might WIFOM stuff up if your reads and stances aren't clear. Chocolate: On March 02 2012 21:44 Chocolate wrote: I continue to be suspicious of phagga because he was interested in lynching me on day 1 and lynched a town on day2 You've spent most of the game pointing out how suspicious of phagga you are, but haven't actually built a case that we can work with. If you are so sure of it, then please be clear instead of making little jabs here and there. I personally don't see the logic in how someone wanting to lynch you makes them necessarily scum, especially if you admit that you acted in a dubious manner D1 to generate content, and 8 people lynched town D2 - that means at least 4+ town there. I'm calling you out right now as all you've had are these weak interactions with people (NightFury, k2hd, ghost and DYH). If you are suspicious, bring a case to the plate, instead of pointing fingers. NightFury and TestSubject 893: I'm still waiting. You guys haven't produced much for us in terms of original content, pulling the newbie card (intentionally or not doesn't matter). It is N2 and plenty of content. Please address my questions and the new things that have occured in the thread. | ||
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
If I'm being 100% honest, I don't even remember posting those 2 posts last night. For that I apologize. As for the ntea lynch. It seems unacceptable to allow him to continue lurking and ninja voting. My vote will be on him unless something very drastic happens. ##Vote: Ntea I'm going to go back and read through the last couple of pages again so I can comment on the other issues. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 03 2012 01:00 zelblade wrote: Goddamm, wasnt expecting that flip. Thought that he was most definately scum.. guess I was wrong. I have a couple of suspisions. My primary one is actually that DoYouHas is scum. Firstly, I have already stated I am really suspicious of the way he dealt with Alderan on day 1. Despite thinking that Steve is the better lynch, he decides to leave his vote on igabod, stating that he does not trust Alderan, primarly because he got "burned" by Ald last game. This logic is clearly bullshit. He, at this point, has no reason to suspect Alderan - besides knowing that Alderan's scum play is good. At first, I thought that this might have been fear of Ald's scum play - and he instictively worried about that possibility. However, thinking further, I believe that a townie DYH would have made a case during the day, and pushed it hard, if he indeed did feel Alderan was scum. However, he did no such thing, instead waiting for night and letting a no-lynch happen. 1. Another thing that makes me suspicious is his stance on igabod. He states this on igabod: Why would he think this? For one, it is more often than not a townie which goes inactive and has to be replaced, and Im sure that DYH knows this. Yet, he still feels that igabod will be the best lynch, simply because he will be replaced. It makes no sense, and I think phagga sums it up nicely here. 2. His case on Alderan rang more alarm bells for me. A large portion of it lies on how Aldrean has been attempting to "buddy" him, which I feel is complete bullshit. Again, this seemed (at first) to be him subconciously being afraid of Ald's scum play, but in reality, I believe that he is more likely to be fearmongering here. 3. Hyde also gives a good explanation why DYH's venture into the speculation of scums actions in day 1 in SNMMIV to aglin with scum's motives this game. I see no parallel at all between these two games, and I believe that DYH should be able to see this. This is most likely an attempt to derail the topic at hand, and indulge town in a useless topic for quite a while. Thankfully it didnt succeed though. Gumshoe's lynch is another area for suspision. Although he was on the "right" side of the lynch, I believe that it is a null tell, and may even be an indication of scum, considering the number of votes that were on gumshoe. 3.1 The reason for this is that scum will want to split up their votes, and it is rather likely that he is doing what Alderan did with DYH's own lynch last game - claiming that he didnt think gumshoe was scum and getting some towncred for the lynch. 4. Besides this, he is also really wishy washy about gumshoe. He states that he believes he is town based on his similar posting style - something which I feel is completely different (but that might be personal opinion, so w/e), but instead does not push against the lynch hard, citing that gumshoe might in fact be scum using his town meta as a cover. That is a bloody weak reason and we know it, and it is never enough for one to doubt one's innocence based on that and that alone. I would expect a townie in that sort of situation (thinking that a townie was to be lynched) to push against the lynch hard, and not apply some soft defense that wont stick. It seems that he wants the lynch to go through - yet doesnt want to be lynched for it. 5. Honestly, I could go on, as I feel that DYH's logic this game is really off. I believe that he is good, and should know better, which is also why I believe that he is scum. 1. I thought igabod was the best lynch because he was a lurker. When the choice was between what I thought was a bad lynch and a lurker. I chose the lurker. The point that he is going to be replaced simply means that he won't be dealt with with a modkill. Later I admitted that objectively Steveling was the better lynch. However, this is not an objective game. My fears that Alderan was trying to pull a vote switch made me dig in my heels and refuse to vote for someone of his choice. 2. My case against Alderan was never meant to push him for a lynch, it was to fish for more content from him. When he played scum he posted a case on Dimmuklok, and managed to avoid chiming in on most other things. So I drew a response and a number of opinions out of him. That was the point. 3. No parallels between this game and SNMM7? Really? Both had a person do something crazy early on, and was largely trusted as a townie because of it. Both had a lack of strong cases day1. Both have the more experienced players at eachother's throats. Both had 2 candidates with a number of votes on them without a majority towards the end of the day. Both threatened a no-lynch and had a 3rd candidate come up as a compromise. That is what I see, why don't you? 3.1 So you see no parallels between this game and SNMM7, but you agree with me and Alderan that scum likely split their vote (which is a parallel), AND you think that I am playing scum similarly to Alderan from SNMM7 (another parallel). SO, let me get this straight. You think that I am scum, that I gave an accurate portrayal of how scum are playing this game, made a point of bringing it back up and getting Alderan to comment on it, and that I wasted everyone's time with speculations that you seem to agree with and even use in your case against me. That is what is absurd. 4. I was wishy-washy about gumshoe, that is how I felt about him. I found things in his play that I did not like, but I also saw things that seemed pro-town. That is why I tried to convince people to lynch k2hd. I felt he was the better lynch. I have no strong defense for this accusation, wishy-washy is accurate. I had no strong read on gumshoe. 5. I do think I'm better than some, but my cases were never rock solid in NMM3, I just had more conviction. My scumhunting was remarkably poor in SNMM7. You want to use the meta that I'm better than this against me? You are wrong, I'm floundering in an unproductive town just as much as everyone else. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 03 2012 03:25 slOosh wrote: DYH: Before D2 I've been on the fence with DYH as on one side it does look like he is trying to contribute and drive discussion, but on the other he is flip flopping a lot and seems really unsure of his reads. I understand your desire to lynch the hard lurker - but I really don't want N2 and D3 to be dominated by discussion of the validity of policy lynches. My questions for you still remain: We need as much info as we can get and we can pick up discussion on nttea lynch if you still feel inclined to do during D3, but it doesn't make sense to do it now at night since you could die and mafia might WIFOM stuff up if your reads and stances aren't clear. No I didn't think k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe. He was someone that I found suspicious when I was making my case against NightFury because he met many of the scum standards I was using to accuse NightFury. I do think he is a good suspect for tomorrow. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:12 DoYouHas wrote: /in I will have a probable schedule conflict with this game. I will be out of town and out of touch for the weekend of March 2-4. This is your reminder. I will be leaving in ~3hours and I will be gone for ~50 hours. I cleared this with dreamflower before the game started, and I apologize. I hope to be back before day3 ends, but there is no guarantee of that. I will be around for the 3 hours, but I will be busy packing and such. Don't expect long responses. | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
Won't link/quote because i'm too lazy, will use number of his posts since he has 2 pages. Not everything is bad. 4. Suspicious of fourface. Thinks he is bad town. 5. starts on me. Dislikes what I'm doing because in #2 he was against lynching lurkers. Thinks me throwing votes around is suspicious and an attempt to get an early bandwagon rolling. 6. wishy washy on fourface, ghost, and igabod. I am the most suspicious for going after easy targets. If he believes I could get a random bandwagon going on a lurker then he is just naive. The only actual target I have gone after is fourface. 7. Doesn't want to vote fourface, suspicious of ghost. Says I disappeared, which is understandable because I did due to my schedule. This is all completely understandable up till now except maybe his position on ghost. He leaves him open to lynch (I don't think I want him lynched) but says he is toxic. The posts between 6-7 by ghost include - telling 4 face not to edit - saying we should lynch someone, preferably scum but otherwise a lurker - what time he'll be on - just got home from work. I think this is pretty suspicious. I want to do a case on ghost before the night is over too. 9. Keeps his vote on me after I made my defense. I can kinda understand this because he said he wanted a lynch no matter what on day1. 19. Still going after me. 1 isn't even a point for why I'm mafia. 2 isn't valid because fourface wasn't making substantial posts like I wanted him to. 3 is a good point but I've since remedied that. 4 is the same. 5 is good but I was afraid to lynch ghost because I thought he was green due to the wifom argument, leaving me only lurkers to lynch. I've expanded my suspicious arsenal since then, however. 20. 1 says he doesn't want to lynch lurkers, his opinion. He is trying to force his opinion on doyouhas though, not a good way to deduce scum. 2 says what I just said 21-23 completely misunderstood at first. they're fine 24. completely agree 25. see above 26. votes on me again. doesn't buy my arguments. 27. agree, 2 is wifom though 28. disagrees with me 29. says I am suspicious without reasoning, presumably doesn't buy any of my defense posts. 30. votes on gumshoe 32. goes to bed 33. completely agree Most of my suspcion of him is how little he has brought to the table, especially on d1. He hasn't done any pbpa and as far as I can tell hasn't started suspicion on anyone either. He His votes come at good times for pressure but also seem to be bandwagon-ish. I want him to contribute more. Finally, he has lynched gumshoe, town, and pushed very hard on me. He goes after each of us right after we become candidates. I want to see a pbpa from him soon. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote: I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him? Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghost I currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they are Ghost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. I also do not trust this post made by ghost: Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. I don't really know what points you want me to address here. As far as pressuring chocolate, I think he's scum. If I didn't think he was scum, I wouldn't be pressuring him. He hasn't done anything to change my opinion of him since I posted my initial argument or the one thereafter. I've seen him time after time in this thread buddy up to DYH, who I also think is scummy. DYH's insistence on a policy lynch on Day 3 is downright dangerous to the town. As far as being condescending, you're right. I could have presented my arguments better, and for that, chocolate, I apologize. As far as that post you quoted, I stand by it. I think that we would have had a much more productive Day 2 with a lynch Day 1, regardless of whether Chocolate or I were lynched. Either of our flips would have given the town a lot of information. You're right, I made that post from a safer position, but that doesn't mean that it's any less true. If you feel I haven't addressed one of your points properly, point it out and I will. | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
On March 03 2012 02:58 DoYouHas wrote: This will be the scummiest thing I say all game. I don't care what nttea's alignment is, I don't care how well intentioned he sounds right now. He lurked for an entire day, after replacing a modkill, and then ninja voted. That means he gets lynched, period. I will not suffer that kind of play in any game I am in. The is the one instance where I will policy lynch the hell out of anyone. I really don't like this post. At all. Punishing his behavior at the expense of the town is horrible play. (Also, saying it sounds scummy doesn't make it any less scummy.) We have no reason to believe that we have either a medic or a veteran in this game, meaning that we will almost certainly be losing a townie every night. If nttea is townie, that makes it 5 townies against 4 scum on Day 4. I don't like those odds. Of course, he could be scum, but I haven't seen anything from you or anyone else that would convince me of that. I'm not happy about the ninja vote either, but I'm afraid we might be throwing away the game with a policy lynch at this point. | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 03 2012 06:58 ghost_403 wrote: I really don't like this post. At all. Punishing his behavior at the expense of the town is horrible play. (Also, saying it sounds scummy doesn't make it any less scummy.) We have no reason to believe that we have either a medic or a veteran in this game, meaning that we will almost certainly be losing a townie every night. If nttea is townie, that makes it 5 townies against 4 scum on Day 4. I don't like those odds. Of course, he could be scum, but I haven't seen anything from you or anyone else that would convince me of that. I'm not happy about the ninja vote either, but I'm afraid we might be throwing away the game with a policy lynch at this point. You have no reason to believe that there isn't a medic or veteran in this game. Are you blue fishing? As for nttea. I'm taking a stand. We let a lot of things slide because this is a newbie game. nttea is over the line. I won't let it slide and I won't abide that play going un-lynched in any game I am in. nttea, this is not an attack on you personally, I want you to keep playing and learning mafia. But I will not be moved on this point. | ||
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