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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 22 2013 21:42 Aquanim wrote: I understand what you're trying to say (I think) but these two seem pretty circular  it is circular, yeah, because they're closely related. you can have good reads and not appear town. Just ask marv for all the times he's been right and people have still wanted to kill him. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
And Fruity was bloody unlucky :/ | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
which doesn't happen too often :p | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On February 22 2013 22:18 marvellosity wrote: Surely you're a better example of that my friend. I've not been mislynched in my last 20 town games ^^ And Fruity was bloody unlucky :/ ...mtg ii | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17800 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Anyway, we (by we, I mean I) don't bring up such nitty gritty details, they detract from the grand canvas. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 22 2013 21:11 wherebugsgo wrote: if you don't find the need to explain your motives (i.e. why you are pushing certain players) then how will you convince others that you are right? You can have correct reads, but if no one thinks you are town then you will never get your reads lynched. You need to both have good scumhunting skills and good town-establishment skills. It's not one or the other generally. Obviously for new players the best thing for them to focus on at the beginning is to establish innocence, because it's easier. Both of these things are hard for scum to do because they're interrelated when you're trying to kill townies on purpose. having correct or rather reasonable reads => you're town. The other way around usually doesn't work. For all I care there's people I'd rather sheep with knowledge of them being mafia then with knowledge of them being town :p | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On February 21 2013 17:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I kinda hate this idea of "establishing innocence". I always end up butting heads with newer players because I don't feel the need to always explain my motives or elaborate extensively on every point I make and they immediately assume I'm mafia or want to really aggressively pressure me for it. I understand the idea that it's ultimately bad for mafia to have to explain everything they think and do but I ultimately think a lot of the information people want from you is really useless. Isn't scumhunting enough? Is it really productive for anyone to waste posts on trying to sell themselves as a townie? That's what the mafia is trying to do. I usually look at the players who are trying the hardest to "prove" their innocence as immediately suspicious because it suggests some kind of paranoia or inherent guilt and it makes analysis a lot easier. A good townie will make themselves apparent through their cases and scumhunting, that should be enough for anyone. It works for me. It gives other townies 1 less suspect to find scum, thus it's good for everybody. It makes people sheep me easier as well If I have good reads then everybody wins, wohoo! (except scum that is) On February 22 2013 02:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: No. I try not to focus too much on defending myself against accusations because it's wasting time I could be using to try to oust scum. Unless someones case is actually gaining traction, I (in theory, assuming I don't get emotional) would prefer to just ignore it. . Establishing your innocence isn't "defend myself against accusations". If someone accused you to begin with (for you to have the need to defend yourself), then you didn't actually "establish your innocence". On February 22 2013 22:18 marvellosity wrote: Surely you're a better example of that my friend. I've not been mislynched in my last 20 town games ^^ And Fruity was bloody unlucky :/ I haven't been misslynched as town either my dear (I don't count Bang Bang II since that was just a random dude shooting me!) On February 22 2013 22:35 Toadesstern wrote: having correct or rather reasonable reads => you're town. The other way around usually doesn't work. For all I care there's people I'd rather sheep with knowledge of them being mafia then with knowledge of them being town :p This is somewhat true If you see Mattchew FoSing someone, then sheep him. If Matt's town it's likely he's right and the guy is scum, if Matt is scum he's 100% bussing his buddy. Win-win | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
very easy for mafia to make a lot of empty posts and pressure/ask useless questions to seem like theyre trying to do something. much harder as the game progresses (in theory, assuming town does their work) to make their cases seem better than cases against actual scum. as far as needing to respond to every single question or accusation in order to establish cred that's just stupid. every time i always have like 3-4 people pointing a finger at me (usually newer players) and all the little pressures and dumb questions distract me and i end up focusing on defending myself instead of thinking about what everyone else is doing. unless that pressure gains traction, why should I even address it? there is no reason everyone needs to know what im thinking at any given moment, that's not the point of the game. the point of the game is to lynch scum. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Creating a logically consistent case is pretty easy, the hard part is staying away from the blame when the target dies. If you are being attacked as town then you do, IMO, need to do something to minimize the suspicion. You're thinking of the game too selfishly. You might know you are town and so you have no interest in responding to anything that is thrown at you. Many good townies might see this as a sign that you are town (perhaps the reason you feel you get attacked by newer players) but if you are believed to be a good scum player it probably means nothing at all with respect to your alignment. You certainly don't need to respond to everything, but I think it would be pretty dumb to ignore everyone who is attacking you. As you say, the point of the game is to lynch scum, so if you believe that any of your accusers are town, then you have an incentive to get them off of you ASAP so that you can help each other find the actual scum. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 23 2013 13:38 wherebugsgo wrote: I personally don't think it's that hard to come up with cases against townies as scum, given that a lot of cases are based upon sound logic but fail to take into account everything in context of the game and its players. Creating a logically consistent case is pretty easy, the hard part is staying away from the blame when the target dies. [...] Agree. There's so much bullshit going on in games. You just have to forget about being mafia, focus on said bullshit and explain why this particular set of bullshit has mafia motivation behind it's back and you're good. And while doing that keep asking yourself what kind of bullshit your townie-self would just ignore and go after everything that's left. The existence of mislynches proves the fact that there's plenty of people who look blatantly scummy without actually being mafia at all or noone would ever end up being mislynched at all. + Show Spoiler [my approach] + I usually don't ever try to explain why someone is mafia, neither as mafia nor as town. That's impossible to do without knowledge of their pm. I try to explain why "being mafia" is the way more likely explanation given a specific behavior. You just won't ever be able to prove someone to be mafia at all, so don't even bother trying and aim for what's possible. Makes it way easier for when you're playing mafia as well: Don't try to explain why someone is mafia, that's not possible, you even know them to be town. Try to explain why said person looks scummy and as already mentioned, there's plenty of people looking scummy for whatever reason in every single game. You don't even have to lie / make up some bullshit that way. The hardest thing (for me) is having enough motivation to actually read the thread when you rolled mafia. Once that base is covered there really should be no problem whatsoever. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7432 Posts
Edit: reading the town rules was hilarious, I couldn't stop laughing. Seeing that I have broken every rule! Only sane townies play by the town rules. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
Whens the next newbie game? or is it possible for a newbie to join a normal game or even a themed game without pissing everyone off / having no clue? Anyone help me with this? XD | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On February 24 2013 00:20 Capped wrote: Thanks, i think this finally informed me of how mafia actually works, and interested me enough to get me to try it. Whens the next newbie game? or is it possible for a newbie to join a normal game or even a themed game without pissing everyone off / having no clue? Anyone help me with this? XD Next newbie is here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399518 Cool Flavor :D Just assume that mafia takes a ton of time to play and you will be alright. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On February 24 2013 00:20 Capped wrote: Thanks, i think this finally informed me of how mafia actually works, and interested me enough to get me to try it. Whens the next newbie game? or is it possible for a newbie to join a normal game or even a themed game without pissing everyone off / having no clue? Anyone help me with this? XD You can join a normal game without playing in a newbie, just read the rules and try to understand a bit of whats going on before hand | ||
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Namunelbo
501 Posts
I'm looking more for a 'live' version of the game, aside from the Arcade and forum version. Maybe an IRC version? I visited the IRC TL-Mafia channel but seems to be empty most of the time. I remember reading about other IRC channels, but not sure how active they are. I may try the forum version in the future, but usually it seems to take a few days to complete, and for me a more 'live' version would be more suitable right now (ranging from minutes to hour). Suggestions? Also, I'm still relatively new to this game and the forum / reddit / written version of the game seems to be more organized / professional / methodical than the one in the Arcade, that from time to time there are those games that grind your gears... | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
edit: Arcade version? | ||
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Namunelbo
501 Posts
On April 14 2013 13:09 Ace wrote: I think Epic Mafia is more "live". Check them out as it is some kind of IRC based thing if I remember. edit: Arcade version? Thanks, will do. Arcade, as in Arcade section (for minigames) in SC2, below 'Custom Games' section. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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