EPTThat's a first lol
Maybe we could span a whole industry, and have interviews with each player and have tabloids and stuff
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
That's a first lol Maybe we could span a whole industry, and have interviews with each player and have tabloids and stuff | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
Mafia Progaming news - Community - Hosts including Live Report QTs, the scumpedia and live streaming of games commentated by Palmar and Marv! Quick, the url is still available! On another note, thanks to Palmar! looking the vid currently, it's really interesting. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Isn't scumhunting enough? Is it really productive for anyone to waste posts on trying to sell themselves as a townie? That's what the mafia is trying to do. I usually look at the players who are trying the hardest to "prove" their innocence as immediately suspicious because it suggests some kind of paranoia or inherent guilt and it makes analysis a lot easier. A good townie will make themselves apparent through their cases and scumhunting, that should be enough for anyone. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17800 Posts
That's why establishing your innocence is important  Not to mention: if people have painted a target on your head and are gunning for your lynch, isn't it important to show them why that is a mistake, and they should lynch a scum instead of a townie? If your method for establishing your innocence is by clear analysis and catching scum, then that's great, but there are other ways (and ways for scum to spoof it all)! | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 21 2013 22:28 Acrofales wrote: Don't you agree that your job as a scumhunter is made easier by townies looking ridiculously townie? If that is so, then don't you agree that other people's scumhunting jobs are made easier by YOU looking ridiculously townie? That's why establishing your innocence is important Not to mention: if people have painted a target on your head and are gunning for your lynch, isn't it important to show them why that is a mistake, and they should lynch a scum instead of a townie? If your method for establishing your innocence is by clear analysis and catching scum, then that's great, but there are other ways (and ways for scum to spoof it all)! No. I try not to focus too much on defending myself against accusations because it's wasting time I could be using to try to oust scum. Unless someones case is actually gaining traction, I (in theory, assuming I don't get emotional) would prefer to just ignore it. The one thing scum CAN'T spoof is scumhunting. It's really the only thing they can't do easily. It's a lot harder to continue to pump out fake cases than it is to do anything else that seems "townie". Townie behavior varies from player to player, I'm very abrasive and aggressive, Palmar trolls, Kenpachi claims townie either way, how exactly am I supposed to prove to anyone I am a townie? I don't really see how there is any other way to establish innocence besides good scumhunting other than some way to prove yourself via your role like a dayvig or something. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 21 2013 22:34 marvellosity wrote: Yeah, I generally agree with Acro. Actually making a compelling/good case on someone isn't that hard for mafia. Faking prolonged investment in town with all the tidbits/questions/attitude is in many ways quite a bit harder. Isn't it the hardest thing to do as mafia besides deciding what to do with your activity level? When I'm looking for scum I tend to look at their cases or what their attitude is regarding the bandwagons/discussion which is usually related to a good or bad case in some way. If "establishing innocence" just means acting in a way that is productive and pro-town, then yeah it's obvious that's something every player should do. But my #1 priority should be finding and lynching scum, not making sure everyone thinks I'm town. A town player who is always thinking about his own innocence isn't going to find scum very well. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17800 Posts
On February 22 2013 02:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote: No. I try not to focus too much on defending myself against accusations because it's wasting time I could be using to try to oust scum. Unless someones case is actually gaining traction, I (in theory, assuming I don't get emotional) would prefer to just ignore it. The one thing scum CAN'T spoof is scumhunting. It's really the only thing they can't do easily. It's a lot harder to continue to pump out fake cases than it is to do anything else that seems "townie". Townie behavior varies from player to player, I'm very abrasive and aggressive, Palmar trolls, Kenpachi claims townie either way, how exactly am I supposed to prove to anyone I am a townie? I don't really see how there is any other way to establish innocence besides good scumhunting other than some way to prove yourself via your role like a dayvig or something. I think you're arguing the same point If you are making good cases and continuing to pressure people correctly, ruling out townies and finding scum, I would argue that you look townie as all hell and have thus established your innocence.However, if you say it is difficult to fake scumhunting, I respectfully disagree. Some of the scum on TL has gotten rather adept at "faking a town meta" by looking as if they are hunting scum. I'd suggest, for instance, Marv's play in Hero Mini Mafia. Did he *want* to bus Adam on D1? Not particularly, but he read the game correctly, buddied up to Palmar and lynched the crap out of his scumbuddy. He then rode the wave, "pressuring" people and making bogus cases on whoever he could get away with. I'd argue my own play in LVI was somewhat similar to this (although less refined). I even simulated a "thought process" on how I was hard on Vivax's case until I realized he couldn't be scum for some reason. Does this play require town, to some certain extent, not be paying enough attention? Yes. It requires other townies who are not good at establishing their innocence, so scum can easily pressure them without looking bad themselves. Therefore, if you are not all that good at scumhunting, then the least you can do is establish your innocence. Some players are simply really good at looking townie even without pro scumhunting skills catching scum at every turn. Particularly newbies and players known to have atrocious scumplay have this advantage  Players, who, imho, don't have to work on establishing their innocence: Sandroba, Syllo, Palmar, Marv, Foolishness, Radfield, maybe some others I'm forgetting. Why? Because if they are town, they will be either shot dead, or lynching the entire scumteam soon enough. If they are still alive by D3 there has to be a very very ironclad reason, or they're scum. Most of these are generally caught out as scum well before D3, though, because they don't have the same quality of posts as scum as they do as town and are thereby caught (not saying I can recognize a Sandroba or Foolishness scum on D1, but other players can and have). Everybody else could be making case after case on a townie without looking anything other than wrong, except for how they make cases, how they pressure people and how they act and react throughout the game. If you get mislynched as a townie, it is almost always your own fault, for not adequately establishing your innocence | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
What you choose to ignore may also depend on the state of the game. For instance early on it's usually a good idea to answer almost everything as it keeps the thread moving. Later on when there is a lot of evidence to shift through and few people are suspecting you it makes more sense to ignore questions that you deem pointless. Another thing to consider is that you usually want answers to your own questions. Is it reasonable to expect people to answer your questions if you never answer theirs? Obviously no one thinks their own questions are pointless. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You can have correct reads, but if no one thinks you are town then you will never get your reads lynched. You need to both have good scumhunting skills and good town-establishment skills. It's not one or the other generally. Obviously for new players the best thing for them to focus on at the beginning is to establish innocence, because it's easier. Both of these things are hard for scum to do because they're interrelated when you're trying to kill townies on purpose. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On February 22 2013 21:29 Aquanim wrote: Can someone explain to me how you establish townyness by some means other than honestly searching for scum? consistent interest and an attempt to understand the game with an open thought process. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On February 22 2013 21:29 Aquanim wrote: Can someone explain to me how you establish townyness by some means other than honestly searching for scum? I would argue that there's not much more than that, but: getting people to lynch the people you think are scum. Searching for scum is all well and good but a lot of the times what separates the townies from the scum (who may even be bussing) is the fact that townies generally put a lot of effort into actually getting their ideas heard. Scum will say some names and often won't actively push their ideas to the forefront of discussion. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On February 22 2013 21:11 wherebugsgo wrote: You can have correct reads, but if no one thinks you are town then you will never get your reads lynched. On February 22 2013 21:38 wherebugsgo wrote: [You get people to think you're town by] getting people to lynch the people you think are scum. I understand what you're trying to say (I think) but these two seem pretty circular | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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