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HarbingerOfDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States508 Posts
January 17 2012 18:41 GMT
#2121
I criticize him for posting all his reads and not having enough scum on the list for the number of scum still alive, not for posting the list. READ
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 17 2012 18:42 GMT
#2122
If your claim of the twister being alive and using twist could be 100% confirmed then we could conclude that Wiggles was not a demon.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 17 2012 18:45 GMT
#2123
essentially you are criticising BL for not believing that he has caught all of the remaining scum?
do you try to find all of the scum at once?
or do you try to read people draw the best conclusions you feel you can and then evaluate the implications of those conclusions?
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25562 Posts
January 17 2012 18:48 GMT
#2124
you're right layabout BL is a great player
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
HarbingerOfDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States508 Posts
January 17 2012 18:49 GMT
#2125
He has 6 leaning town reads, 2 leaning town/scum (what does that even mean?), one leaning scum. HOW IS THERE THAT MUCH TOWN STILL ALIVE TO HIM?!?
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 17 2012 18:53 GMT
#2126
On January 18 2012 03:36 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
Reads/Explanations:
Blazinghand - 99% town, 1% demon. Claimed corrupted town. He is either town (very likely), or an exceptionally ballsy demon.
Bluelightz - Wat. Just posted his list of reads, includes more town reads than the number of remaining townies, unless Syllo was somehow a demon and RoL was an angel. I want to believe he is town, but he makes it so hard to. Reading his filter makes my brain numb. I would not be particularly surprised with him flipping any alignment.
Dirkzor - Seems scummy to me, I could see him flipping angel or demon. any scum
Grackaroni - Leaning town. 100% not a demon. Some chance of being an angel, but I have now read his past games and the main difference I see is only a bit of a drop in activity. Also, if you were scum, Palmar was not on your team, and he was acting fairly scummy and being attacked by several vets, would you defend him day 1? I know I wouldn't. However, he still remains a potential angel, although I do not think it is the most likely. [b]town
Jackal58 - Might be an angel...? I can't shake the feeling that he might be an angel, but I don't have any particularly good explanation for it.
layabout - Probably demon. He was twisted, but is not the corrupted townie. Also wants me dead like none other. Possibility of him being town if the demons managed to guess who I was investigating.
Refallen - Probably town. Besides being more aggressive, which is in itself generally a town trait, and his play has been fairly consistent with my last game with him where he was town.
Tyrran - Still isn't playing anything like he did when he was town in steamship. A number of his statements don't seem like a bullshitting scum player...but his play is still very different. I could see him flipping any alignment.
Zephirdd - Hopefully town. While his actions have been odd, they don't match up with his scum play from steamship. His reactions to being accused by syllo of being scum-buddies with me seemed extremely similar to my reaction to being tied to Risk.

So, I am willing to take our chances on lynching Bluelightz, Dirkzor, Jackal, Tyrran, or Grackaroni, with a preference of not Grackaroni.

so thats:
Town
Any
a bit scummy
leaning town
maybe angel
probably demon
probably town
Any
hopefully town

1 scum read
2"maybe" scum
2 i havent a clue

Bluelightz had:
[B]On January 17 2012 23:53 Bluelightz wrote:
Blazinghand: Leaning Town
Dirkzor: Leaning Town
Grackaroni: Leaning Town / Scum
HarbingerOfDoom: Leaning Town
Jackal58: Leaning Town/Scum
layabout: Leaning Town
Refallen: Leaning Scum
Tyrran: Leaning
Zephirdd: Leaning Town

1 maybe scum
2 maybe scum, maybe town.

way to go stick your neck out and criticise BL from a position that you could legitimately do so from.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
January 17 2012 18:55 GMT
#2127
On January 18 2012 03:35 layabout wrote:
the demons would love to inform town the channeller was lynched if this was the case
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
why would a scum team willingly give up information to town that could be to their detriment

how about instead of first assuming that i am a demon, you try to look at how HoD has behaved and see how it makes sense if he is an angel.

claiming sage was not only safe for an angel but it allowed him to then make an OMGUS against me.

+did you really think that i looked like scum until HoD said that i was twisted?

Consider that i believe HoD to be the AoD.
Consider that my reasons have not been shown to be incorrect. (because they aren't)
Consider that as town i need to lynch an angel and that killing the AoD is the best possible lynch for town.



Because that would mean instant HoD lynch, how can you not realize that? It can only be beneficial to them as the HoD is would be a freaking Angel, and with HoD's flip(if he is lynched) we will know that anyway.

[Loading...]




Allow me to apply Zephirdd's logic into my previous post and consider that HoD is the Angel, that the Demons are stupid and that you are probably not even a Demon. Yes, HoD is a real lynch target.

+ Show Spoiler [Possibly useless voting analysis] +

Quickly, anyone good with voting analysis?

Assume that Blazinghand, Mr Wiggles and syllogism as town

Erandorr (10): Blazinghand, Tyrran, Cwave, HarbingerOfDoom, syllogism, risk.nuke, Grackaroni, Jackal58, Mr. Wiggles, layabout

risk.nuke (9): Refallen, syllogism, Bluelightz, Zephirdd, RebirthOfLeGenD, Grackaroni, Blazinghand, Cwave, Jackal58

RebirthOfLeGenD (7): Blazinghand, Spaackle, Refallen, Grackaroni, HarbingerOfDoom, Zephirdd, syllogism

(mind you that even if grack is not dark, he could be angel; that doesn't matter RIGHT NOW)

What makes more sense: Painting HoD or RoL as scum on these?

To me its HoD.



BTW Mr Wiggles had to be at least VT, why the fuck would he create the first case against his own Palmar buddy? -_-


...Are we even lynching? I doubt a no-lynch would be beneficial to anyone but angels.

Either way, If I'm wrong we lynch the AoD, if I'm right we at least get a shot at second place with Demons winning. laya/syllo made a ton of sense and it's just silly that HoD happened to get twisted on the one guy that made a case against him.


ASDFAFSDFASFDASFDASDFAS





oh btw I couldn't find Angel on Refallen, nor scum or whatsoever
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
HarbingerOfDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States508 Posts
January 17 2012 18:55 GMT
#2128
Well, we really need to pick a lynch soon. Blazinghand, Zephirrd, I think you are both still here, I posted my preferred lynch targets, are any of those acceptable lynch targets to both of you?
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 17 2012 18:56 GMT
#2129
given how passive and disinterested people have been playing and the lack of votes and lynch candidates and cases, wouldn't it be fair to say that most of the people in the thread are uncertain of their scumreads, and by extension must find everyone else either town or null?
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
January 17 2012 18:58 GMT
#2130
TBH Bluelightz would be a nice lynch early on, but we can't really miss. He hasn't provided anything useful at all. at all.

At all.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
January 17 2012 18:59 GMT
#2131
OH, I didnt make it clear previously.

I voted HoD.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
HarbingerOfDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States508 Posts
January 17 2012 18:59 GMT
#2132
On January 18 2012 03:56 layabout wrote:
given how passive and disinterested people have been playing and the lack of votes and lynch candidates and cases, wouldn't it be fair to say that most of the people in the thread are uncertain of their scumreads, and by extension must find everyone else either town or null?

Or about half the people alive are some type of scum and therefore have more trouble finding enough scum.
HarbingerOfDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States508 Posts
January 17 2012 19:00 GMT
#2133
Zephirrd T_T

I am the sage. If you are town, don't throw this game dammit.
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
January 17 2012 19:01 GMT
#2134
Actually, re-reading things here, Bluelightz indeed looks waaaaaaaaaaaay scummy. I mean, it's a common strategy for scum to look useless and active like that.
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
January 17 2012 19:05 GMT
#2135
I mean, look at this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&currentpage=106#2105

Next, Refallen

I think Refallen is scum because he seemed preeety sure about some ??? flips in some of his post's
<random quote about syllo being VT>

But, his stance on Palmar day 1 make's me look as he is town tho


That is simply retarded. Angels know the ??? flips except for RoL's flip(or not, if he was Angel). Palmar was demon. OF COURSE an Angel would go against Palmar.

+ OMGUS on Jackal

wtf...?
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
HarbingerOfDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States508 Posts
January 17 2012 19:15 GMT
#2136
On January 18 2012 03:53 layabout wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2012 03:36 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
Reads/Explanations:
Blazinghand - 99% town, 1% demon. Claimed corrupted town. He is either town (very likely), or an exceptionally ballsy demon.
Bluelightz - Wat. Just posted his list of reads, includes more town reads than the number of remaining townies, unless Syllo was somehow a demon and RoL was an angel. I want to believe he is town, but he makes it so hard to. Reading his filter makes my brain numb. I would not be particularly surprised with him flipping any alignment.
Dirkzor - Seems scummy to me, I could see him flipping angel or demon. any scum
Grackaroni - Leaning town. 100% not a demon. Some chance of being an angel, but I have now read his past games and the main difference I see is only a bit of a drop in activity. Also, if you were scum, Palmar was not on your team, and he was acting fairly scummy and being attacked by several vets, would you defend him day 1? I know I wouldn't. However, he still remains a potential angel, although I do not think it is the most likely. [b]town
Jackal58 - Might be an angel...? I can't shake the feeling that he might be an angel, but I don't have any particularly good explanation for it.
layabout - Probably demon. He was twisted, but is not the corrupted townie. Also wants me dead like none other. Possibility of him being town if the demons managed to guess who I was investigating.
Refallen - Probably town. Besides being more aggressive, which is in itself generally a town trait, and his play has been fairly consistent with my last game with him where he was town.
Tyrran - Still isn't playing anything like he did when he was town in steamship. A number of his statements don't seem like a bullshitting scum player...but his play is still very different. I could see him flipping any alignment.
Zephirdd - Hopefully town. While his actions have been odd, they don't match up with his scum play from steamship. His reactions to being accused by syllo of being scum-buddies with me seemed extremely similar to my reaction to being tied to Risk.

So, I am willing to take our chances on lynching Bluelightz, Dirkzor, Jackal, Tyrran, or Grackaroni, with a preference of not Grackaroni.

so thats:
Town
Any
a bit scummy
leaning town
maybe angel
probably demon
probably town
Any
hopefully town

1 scum read
2"maybe" scum
2 i havent a clue

Bluelightz had:
Show nested quote +
[B]On January 17 2012 23:53 Bluelightz wrote:
Blazinghand: Leaning Town
Dirkzor: Leaning Town
Grackaroni: Leaning Town / Scum
HarbingerOfDoom: Leaning Town
Jackal58: Leaning Town/Scum
layabout: Leaning Town
Refallen: Leaning Scum
Tyrran: Leaning
Zephirdd: Leaning Town

1 maybe scum
2 maybe scum, maybe town.

way to go stick your neck out and criticise BL from a position that you could legitimately do so from.

Mine is a possible setup given the remaining players. BL's is not unless Syllo was a demon, RoL was an angel, and both of his maybe town, maybe scums are scum. I am criticizing him for suggesting a virtually impossible scenario with an extra fuckload of town in it. And how do you go from a probably demon and a seems scummy -> saying I have 1 scum read? I admit there is the possibility of you being town due to my illuminate failing, but I think it is much more likely you are a demon.
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
January 17 2012 19:19 GMT
#2137
Bluelightz(clicky)

He even makes a huge mistake on one of his "reads":
HoD said that grack was not angel, but what if he is a demon?. He has been sheeping but, how he post's make me lean town.

HoD said he was not Demon. That's what the Sage does.

He complains about one liners when he is the one liner man himself.

And specially
11.Zephirrd

With his VT claim I believe him for now.

Nevermind the double 'r'(which I HATE), but what the fuck kind of reasoning is this? So I post a retarded amount of martyring and claim the one thing that we all are by default, and he "believes" me? This striked me as odd at first, but now I'm trying to take things together.

And then he makes two huge posts about Dirkzor, about how he is scum, and with a single one-liner by Dirkzor he suddenly has him as "Leaning Town".

I mean, I thought I was the king of mind changing and contradictions but this guy wins the prize.

Later,
Since BH claimed the "Not dark" read on Grack, I think he is town but there is still the possibility of him being an angel. He has done nothing helping the town, sheeped hard. He also has been contributing to the discussion though so I'm mixed with Grack.

Wait, I thought HoD had said he wasn't an Angel, according to you?


So, with this last word's I say I am Town. If you Lynch Me, I will flip town.

What, nobody was caring about you at all. Are you really Town, with capital T?
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
HarbingerOfDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States508 Posts
January 17 2012 19:21 GMT
#2138
On January 18 2012 04:00 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
Zephirrd T_T

On January 18 2012 04:19 Zephirdd wrote:
Nevermind the double 'r'(which I HATE)

Sorry Zephirdd :-x
layabout
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom2600 Posts
January 17 2012 19:23 GMT
#2139
he isn't suggesting a scenario
he is posting his read on players based on what he has read.

"seems scummmy" is not a scum read, it's very non-committal
"he is scummy" on the other hand would pretty much a scum read
"he is scum" is a scumread

"Probably" indicates that you think him being scum is the most likely alignment
"seems" or "scummy" is not
"seems and scummy" is not a scumread.
Be the Best You Can Be ! Play MAFIA II http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/ II Dragonsound Best Band
HarbingerOfDoom
Profile Joined December 2010
United States508 Posts
January 17 2012 19:30 GMT
#2140
On January 18 2012 04:23 layabout wrote:
he isn't suggesting a scenario
he is posting his read on players based on what he has read.

"seems scummmy" is not a scum read, it's very non-committal
"he is scummy" on the other hand would pretty much a scum read
"he is scum" is a scumread

"Probably" indicates that you think him being scum is the most likely alignment
"seems" or "scummy" is not
"seems and scummy" is not a scumread.

So I say he seems scummy and I could see him being angel or demon, and I say I am fine lynching him, and you interpret it with your comment as "any scum", but it isn't a scum read? I see.

Re Bluelightz:
You have a list of conclusions. Some of your conclusions must be false. Do you
1) Rethink some of the conclusions
2) Accept them all and share them
...?
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