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EBWOP: I didn't update the number of votes on hyshes, it should say zero.
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for a while there I didn't think we would lynch anyone...
People who i think came out of this looking bad are ET and Jay. But there is still very little from ET to analyze. I'll look at it tomorrow after sleep and jay is hanging soon.
Hyshes is still useless.
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Night post incoming any minute now!
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On December 28 2011 12:12 Grackaroni wrote:
indeed... GG btw.. never did say that =)
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Night 2: A Cold Winter's Evening![[image loading]](http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium/cold-winter-night-martie-dandrea.jpg)
The town stood in solemn silence as they looked down upon Jaybrundage clawing at the sides of the earthen pit he had been thrown down.
"Please, you've got to believe me, I've done nothing wrong! Why are you doing this to me! Please stop!", Jaybrundage screamed up at them, pulling handfuls of earth from the sides of the deep hole, struggling to climb out.
His eyes were full of fear and pleading, but the town took no pity on him, and made no indications that they had even heard him over the howling wind. Instead, they took it in turns to dump down shovelfuls of frozen earth into the pit, and eventually his cries were muffled by the snow and dirt. After a while, they were done, and without remorse they left, leaving no mark of what they had done.
Jaybrundage the Townie has been lynched!
Night 2 has begun, please send all night actions to me before the deadline, at 12 KST 24 hours from now.
+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +Final Vote Count
GiygaS - 2
EchelonTee
jaybrundage
Dirkzor
Shraft
Shraft - 1
Hyshes
Hyshes - 0
Adam4167
Cyber_Cheese
Dirkzor - 0
Cyber_Cheese
Jaybrundage - 6
Adam4167
Dirkzor
Shraft
Cyber_Cheese
Misder
GiygaS
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VIGILANTE, HOLD YOUR SHOT!
And with that, I'm off to bed.
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That last minute vote switch OP. GG town
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In fact, it might be better to just have our vigilante shoot. If we can't get an unanimous lynch going (and, looking at today's lynch, that is highly unlikely) it will be very easy for them to force a no lynch by switching their votes at the very last second. Our vigilante should shoot.
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On December 28 2011 12:44 jaybrundage wrote:
That last minute vote switch OP. GG town
Knowing that ET wouldn't get modkilled, it was better to ensure a lynch tham to risk a no lynch.
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On December 28 2011 12:51 Shraft wrote:
In fact, it might be better to just have our vigilante shoot. If we can't get an unanimous lynch going (and, looking at today's lynch, that is highly unlikely) it will be very easy for them to force a no lynch by switching their votes at the very last second. Our vigilante should shoot.
No, vigi should not shoot.
If they do a mass unvote tomorrow we'll know exactly who they are, then the vigi can shoot one of them tomorrow night and it wont be game over, since they'll be down to 2.
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Bwhahahaha. Should have known. I really didn't think if jay was scum, they would have let the bandwagon form that quickly.
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....................that bandwagon did not have to happen. Like seriously, wtf, that was some epic vote switching, even though jay hadn't done shit.
Started by Misder:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2011 04:03 Misder wrote:
Surprised no one called me out on not being here.
Anyways,
##Vote: jaybrundage
I'm still going to vote him because I think my gut read is correct. I was going to wait til he posted something, but meh.
I think GiygaS is town.
I think Adam is scum (though might be me being paranoid).
I can see a hyshes scum.
Everyone else is null.
Your gut read was wrong brah. Interestingly enough your first line reminds me of seph's "surprised that no one called me out for lurking" thing from earlier. You make a bunch of gut assumptions. But you're not the one who's been twisting words to advance these bandwagons. That guy that your gut tells you is town is the one doing fishy shit. Let's examine, shall we?
Giygas' post on jay, footnoted with red numbers:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2011 04:08 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 07:57 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys,
Sorry for not being to active. Internet is a commodity not always provided at my families house.
Ok lets get started. On policy lynches i think that there fine guidelines for how we should act and at the same time we should not follow them blindly and be the main reason we lynch someone.
Onto the good stuff. I think that the sephirotharg case is an interesting one. I do find his first post suspicious.
Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency.
I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest. You know people think your suspicious if not just plain scum. Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that.
##Vote sephirotharg
Honestly you seem to want to be voting for the way your acting. Post a solid reason why we should not vote for you. Defend your self give people another case on someone you think is scummy. Something Right off the bat we see hypocrisy, bolded for your leisure  . 1Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote:
Alright sep you just got a warning. As of now i see as scum and you have a lot of votes on you. Plz address these concerns.
And it would be great for you to give your scum reads. As we have about 2 and a half hours till deadline.
If your town tell use everything you know so that we have tools to get scum. Give us everything you got this is the time you can change the vote. Now or never.
Oh and in case my nonbolded vote doesnt count.
##Vote Sephirotharg Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 09:58 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm I find it interesting that you choice to vote for me.
The Sephirotharg so called bandwagon is going so well because hes had some huge scum tells. If you dont realize this then you should reread his posts. I stated why i think hes scummy.
You state its stupid but please do explain that. Dont you think its weird that Sephirotharg instead of defending himself that he just leaves? And the votes for himself just not to get modkilled however he knows people are voting for him but he ignores it. He is much more likly to be lynched at this point.
The part where he edited a post to appear innocent is pretty much nailing him the coffin. A townie would not have to be so conscious of his posts because he has nothing to hide.
He then states at this point he would rather not play the game. He doesn't want to play the game because hes mafia that got caught day one. Kinda sucks but pretty good for town dont ya think.
And if you want to make a case on me go for it.
So far you posted everything about policy lynches which is a great discussion starter. You have to move on sooner or later.
You then vote for me with practically nothing. You claim i haven't contributed but all you talked about was policy lynches. Here are his next two posts, again, I bolded the offensive statements. The guy is fricking bipolar in his first 3 posts. He goes from Kill Seph to Maybe he's town but vote for him anyway, to Kill Seph again (notice the timing of him being attacked by seph based off instructions he gave out to aggressiveness on seph). He's also making a list of what seph has done this game, not detailing WHY it's scummy. But you know the scummiest thing in this last post? He does not defend himself here at all, He doesn't defend himself till the next day, on further prompting. Why wouldn't he do this? 2Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 03:35 jaybrundage wrote:
There is nothing scummy about my action its simple IF YOU VOTE, HAVE A CASE.
I find this part of your defense very interesting, as you had really no case on seph, you were, plain and simple, sheepvoting. Literally all he adds to the discussion this day is that Seph voting for himself has to be scummy, even though almost everyone else agreed, including vets, that it was a null read. You kept going on and on and on and on about it: why? 3This and you just say seph is scummy - "It speaks for itself" without ever giving reason for his scumminess beyond him voting for himself >.<. Another thing - Seph mentionned that you only posted to push Seph's lynch or to defend yourself, and otherwise you were lurking. Guess what's happened now that there's no easy bandwagon and your not the focus of scrutiny? Yep, we're all playing Where's Jay. Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 14:34 jaybrundage wrote:
Sucks Sep was town
Moving on.
I would like to lynch hyshes next he has not attributed much to the discussion at all.
And in general has not posted anything that has any significance Accusations like this are just retarded, no offense. Like seriously, you just make an accusation on him for being inactive, when you said specifically that LynchAllLurkers was a bad idea. Wtf? 4Final reason to lynch JB is that if he dies and is revealed as mafia, we can then lynch Shraft for chainsaw defensing for him. ##Vote jaybrundage
1.Jay is not being hypocritical; he is saying that soft-claiming that lurking is bad, and the he is SORRY for not posting much. He is actually discrediting himself by saying this; yes this makes no damn sense, but all game jay has been saying "im a bad player guys, honest, i havent been able to post much". You take his statement, "i havent been active much" and imply that jay is saying "its ok that i havent been active much right? Word twisting.
2.You are using strong language to try and convey that jay did egregious things; you state that he is being "friggen bipolar" yet if anyone examines jay's three posts, they are not inconsistent. Wishywashy as shit sure, but he is on seph in every one of those posts. The middle post says "if you're town, contribute". Not "i think you might be town... here's a vote anyways". You're twisting that shit up man.
3.what the hell are you even saying here? You are taking jay's quote out of context; he is defending himself by saying that Misder meta'ing him from 1/2 posts is illogical, and that Misder needs a case before accusing. You use this quote as evidence of jay not having a case on seph; read through jay's filter. He doesn't constantly go on and on about seph's self vote, other people continually brought it up. Jay's case was weak, but it had more than once facet. Why are you trying to make jay look one dimensional?
4.twisting words twisting words. where did jay "specifically" say that lynchallurkers was a bad idea. He called suspicion on seph, like everyone else did.
That's why his case is weird and weak. Now why is he suspicious?
Giygas' defense posts from pressure:
From Dirk
+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2011 04:07 GiygaS wrote:Defense in bold.Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 22:20 Dirkzor wrote:GiygaS:I would like to kill him. It would atleast be very interesting to see what he flips. (Wow batman slow down... It's ALWAYS interesting what people flip... O_o) + Show Spoiler +On December 24 2011 21:18 Dirkzor wrote:GiygaS:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 03:28 GiygaS wrote:On Sephiroth (goddamn you were hard to beat in Kingdom Hearts 2 ), I think his post is definitely scummy, and I'm placing my FoS on him, but I am not lynching him yet. I want to see more than one post out of him to decide if I want to lynch him, as I don't believe one singular post should ever be the reason someone is lynched unless it is really extremely crazy. I'm looking forward to his defense and responses to future questions I ask of him and Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 03:30 GiygaS wrote:
Ninja'd.
First of all, you expected to be voted on early? A town would never have that tendency.
You made a comment on your tendencies that just sparks excuses for yourself later on down the road, that's NOT pro-town.
Your last sentence didn't really "generate discussion", as that info was used as a footnote to other people's posts already.
##Vote sephirotharg He adds nothing new other then to hesitate a bit before voting for seph (after his first defence). This could easily be jumping on the wagon that Shraft and myself started. I can't really say anything here other than I disagree. My hesitation to lynch him was merely that, a hesitation, based off my previous experiences. I hate voting for people off one vote to "pressure them" because it starts a bandwagon too easily, but at the time of Sephs second post, I was convinced he was scum (wrongly). I also was the first to analyse (and only) his second post.1 As i wrote earlier (see spoiler) he jumped on the Seph wagon prette early without much reasoning. He don't want to vote on a person with just 1 post but immediatly after sephs 2nd post he votes for him with not much more to go after then after the first post. I thought he was scum after the first post, it was confirmed (for me) in the second post, for the reasons I entailed in that post. Why is that so hard to believe?2After this he have a few post with nothing in them. Then he is gone for almost 24hours and comes back posting this: On December 25 2011 04:49 GiygaS wrote:
I just read seph's defense and I've skimmed throught his whole jaybrundage thing. I'm not sure on him, and not nearly as much as I am on Sephiroth. All I heard in the defense was literally "I'm not mafia, would mafia do this?" can of defense, let alone how many times he mentions "I'm town", or that he's just a noob with a bad strategy. If I read honestly from him one more time I'm going to scream D:
Reading through the rest now. On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. He admits that he just skimmed trough "the whole jaybrundage thing" but in the same post comes to the conclusion that Seph is more scummy than Jay. The reasoning for thinking Seph is scum is okay, but not very in-depth considering how much Seph had actually written to defend himself at this point. I didn't come to the conclusion that Seph was more scummy, I came to the conclusion that he WAS scummy (you must have agreed considering you voted for him too.) I did say I only skimmed through the jay thing because I was saying that I was going to read through it and give my thoughts, which I did in the next post 30 minutes later. I said I was going to post my thoughts, and the throughts weren't really all that in-depth in my mind either that Jay wasn't AS scummy as seph, of course, now I have my doubts on him based off seph's results, going to be looking through his filter some.The last post just screams scumbuddy to me. No reasoning. No logic. Just a statement to further enhance the image that Jay is a good guy. How does it scream scumbuddy? I posted my thoughts that I didn't think Jay was as scummy as Seph, that's it that's all. I'll be honest, I was tunelling on Seph, which I won't do again.3On December 25 2011 06:49 GiygaS wrote:On December 25 2011 06:38 sephirotharg wrote:On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. Care to expand on that? Why do you believe Jay and not me? Lay out your reasoning, convince others. That's the town play. A lot of the stuff on Jay is twisting words to say he's mafia. While the first evidence against you was indeed flavor text (the lurker thing), most of he stuff on you now is how you've reacted to things IMO. Meanwhile Jay only has weird flavor text twisting against him4. BTW, I think the reason he hasn't scumhunted yet is there's pretty much him and you on the chopping block. That and I just get a tone of voice thing in yours that makes it seem you're way more concerned about getting lynched than Jay is, which I usually associate with a mafia. This post is to me a null read. But i'll run over it anyway. The first part (bolded) makes perfectly sense to me. GiygaS argues that the case on Jay is mostly twisting words and then acknowledges that the case on Seph is similar but to him its more _how_ seph responded then what was the actual case. Again i would have liked to see more in-depth analysis. How did Seph react to make you think he was scum? How did Jay react better? Last part of the post is again defending Jay on why he hasn't scumhunted (besides Seph). At this early stage of the game why would you defend someone? It just strikes me as weird since it is hard to get a read this early. Sorry, I'll be more in-depth with my thoughts from now on *salute*All in all not much was done from his side on day1. Would we have missed him if he had not posted at all? (yes he had a few post regarding lynch policy but those are useless) He pushed gently towards Seph in the beginning not overcommiting. Then later comes back and push Seph again without going all out crazy bananas mega case. Small nudges to get wagon on seph to continue while taking of spotlight from potential scumbuddy Jay. On Shraft's coming soon!
1.You hesitating to vote is indicative that you don't want to start a bandwagon, despite claiming that you "thought that he was scum after the first post". This is weird as hell. Maybe it's your playstyle, but when you feel that someone is scummy you press them, you analyze them you check things out. Not wait until the bandwagon is started then comfortably jump in. There's a term for that, I forgot it, but sitting in the middle of the bandwagon is where it's at for scum. Ive said this more than once. Also, you are not the only one to analyze that second post of seph's, I did too.
2.It's contradictory because you express reticence to jump onto something, then fn leap onto it when the goings good. Being contradictory makes you hard to believe.
3. You might not be jay's scumbuddy, but you were sure happy tunneling him, despite saying that you weren't going to do any of that nonsense anymore. First you "believe" jay in his defense, then you nail jay using a bunch of ill-conceived tells to get him lynched, while ignoring the defenses that you had previously acknolwedged. Contradictory, while tunneling.
4. ohai scum slip. The case against jay is "twisting words to say he's mafia", eh? Funny that you do exactly that to put jay under. You acknowledge here that the case on jay so far has little substance. When you turn around to tunnel jay, all you CAN do is exactly what you stated: twist words.
From Shraft:
On December 27 2011 04:32 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 03:06 Shraft wrote:If we're going to win this, there are some players that'll have to start being a lot more active (I'm looking mainly at hyshes here). In fact town as a whole needs to be a lot more active, or else we're going to find ourselves at lylo in two cycles with insufficient information to work with. How do you guys feel about jay? Do you still want to off him or do you think that there's better targets? I think his play is more in line with an emotionally invested townie than scum. My scepticism toward the jay lynch probably stems from the lackluster cases on him. I'd argue that we'll gain less information if we keep arguing jay, and that it'll probably be wiser to bring forth new information on other (less discussed) players, and that we should leave jay to the vigilante(s). The problem with that is that we might not even have one. Anyway, if people find jay scummy they'll probably present more cases pinpointing his scummyness, so hopefully that problem will work itself out. Anyway, I have a new candidate for today's lynch. As the new lynch target I present to you, GiygaS! I first caught sight of him when Dirkzor pointed out his attitude toward jay. His first five posts are (more or less) stuff of no value, arguing policy lynches and general advice. It's basically filler, and thusly I won't analyse it. His first interesting post is this one: On December 24 2011 03:28 GiygaS wrote:First of all, shut up about policies people. I know I won't back down on not implementing them, and Cyber_Cheese won't either. This whole discussion on which policy is better was really only good for generating the first bit of discussion, but now we have people ignoring actually important events to talk about this shit. Stop. On Sephiroth (goddamn you were hard to beat in Kingdom Hearts 2 ), I think his post is definitely scummy, and I'm placing my FoS on him, but I am not lynching him yet. I want to see more than one post out of him to decide if I want to lynch him, as I don't believe one singular post should ever be the reason someone is lynched unless it is really extremely crazy. I'm looking forward to his defense and responses to future questions I ask of him Here, he makes it overly clear that he is not jumping on some bandwagon without thinking it through thoroughly first. This is not a bad habit (to think things through), but from experience, only mafia feel the necessity to announce their thoughtfulness explicitly in the thread. A townie will gladly jump on a bandwagon on loose advice based off of one post in order to pressure someone, whereas scum are scared of voting because it attracts unwanted attention. This townie won't. I have a policy on myself that I won't lynch somebody off one post unless it's super uber duper scummy, which Seph's was not. I don't agree that only mafia will announce their thoughtfulness as at this point I was trying to slow down the suspicions on Seph until we got another post out of him.1Just before GiygaS posted the message above, Sephirotharg posts (GiygaS was ninja'd): On December 24 2011 03:25 sephirotharg wrote:
Well, I'm a bit surprised this didn't happen faster.
Shraft, what do you want me to say? I merely made a comment based on my tendencies - if anything, explicitly stating how I play is pro-town.
Add to my case the fact that I've already acted pro-town, in generating discussion with the last part of my first post, and I'm not sure how you can justify voting for me. After this post, the oh so thoughtful GiygaS posts: On December 24 2011 03:30 GiygaS wrote:
Ninja'd.
First of all, you expected to be voted on early? A town would never have that tendency.
You made a comment on your tendencies that just sparks excuses for yourself later on down the road, that's NOT pro-town.
Your last sentence didn't really "generate discussion", as that info was used as a footnote to other people's posts already.
##Vote sephirotharg Notice how he went from being very hesitant to vote for Sephirotharg to voting for him without providing much thought or reasoning at all. (This happened over a span of two minutes - his first post was made 3:28 and his second 3:30.) This means that all it took was two minutes and a rather contentless post from Seph to turn the thoughful GiygaS into voting-aggressively-without-providing-much-thought-GiygaS. Seems rather odd and inconsistent to me. The only thing that might be interpreted as scummy in Seph's second post is that he tries to proclaim his actions as pro-town, but even taking this into consideration, it seems strange that this would be enough to warrant GiygaS's change in his attitude toward Seph. While this is strange looking back on it, I will agree, I disagree with your conclusion. In my head at the time, I treated Seph as scum, he was already tunneled in my brain. Everything he said was wrong and scummy, you can see that based off my responses to his contentless post, treating it like it was big content. Again, apologies for tunneling.2After placing his vote, GiygaS is content to sit back and wait for the day to end without providing much thought on the cases presented on jay. Nor does he provide any additional thoughts on why he wants sephirotharg lynched. This is what Dirkzor discovered. He simply states: I was content because I was out of the house, it's Christmas holidays and I had shopping and a basketball game to prepare for. Not to mention all my free time was on programming an rpg I'm making for computer science.3On December 25 2011 04:49 GiygaS wrote:
I just read seph's defense and I've skimmed throught his whole jaybrundage thing. I'm not sure on him, and not nearly as much as I am on Sephiroth. All I heard in the defense was literally "I'm not mafia, would mafia do this?" can of defense, let alone how many times he mentions "I'm town", or that he's just a noob with a bad strategy. If I read honestly from him one more time I'm going to scream D:
Reading through the rest now. This is just a contentless post attempting to make it appear as though he actually cares about how the lynch is going or making it appear as though he is contributing and actively thinking about choosing the best target for the lynch. Observe that he just uses blanket statements. He doesn't put any effort in pointing out what is wrong with the cases or just what he doesn't like (more specifically) about Seph's defense. I'm using blanket statements because I didn't want to point out the countless times it happened. I was trying to make it appear that I cared about the lynch because I did, but like you said I was gone for 24 hours.On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. This is straight up buddying with jay. There is not a single reason for a townie to ever simply "believe" another player. The only healthy attitude to have as a townie toward other players is to never give them the benefit of the doubt. Always question them. Always demand of them to provide thoughts and reasons to back their statements. To buddy up with someone is foolish. This is pure anti-town play. I'm going to explain this one sentence post here. I said (or I thought I did at the time) that I was going to look over the jay suspicions, and then I did and I posted my thoughts which were basically that the jay suspicions were null reads. Only when he gets called out by Seph he provides more food for thought, and even then he provides only general fluff and makes no real effort to refer to anything specific. Here's the post: On December 25 2011 06:49 GiygaS wrote:On December 25 2011 06:38 sephirotharg wrote:On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. Care to expand on that? Why do you believe Jay and not me? Lay out your reasoning, convince others. That's the town play. A lot of the stuff on Jay is twisting words to say he's mafia. While the first evidence against you was indeed flavor text (the lurker thing), most of he stuff on you now is how you've reacted to things IMO. Meanwhile Jay only has weird flavor text twisting against him. BTW, I think the reason he hasn't scumhunted yet is there's pretty much him and you on the chopping block. That and I just get a tone of voice thing in yours that makes it seem you're way more concerned about getting lynched than Jay is, which I usually associate with a mafia. Again, I'll be more in-depth with my analysis from now on when I can.4To conclude: GiygaS is a scummily scummy scum! When day turns to night, I want his body to hang on the gallows of Liquidia! ##Vote GiygaS Analysis coming soon!
1.Stating that it is a "policy" of yours to avoid starting voting is a convenient out; just like policy lynches are a convenient way to avoid discussion, having a policy to your play means that you can say "yeah it looks scummy, but I always play like this so i'm townie". Or, you're scum. Also, contradiction: you say that seph's post "isn't" super scummy, but earlier you said that you thought seph was scum based off his first post.
2.you are justifying your mistake by saying you were "tunneling"; yet you do the same thing with jay? You even acknoweldge that your actions are strange, but by saying that your "conclusion" differs, you acknolwedge your suspicious behavior but cleverly subvert what should be concluded. That you are tunneling townies.
3.you are making excuses for ignoring defenses from people. everyone's busy, town doesn't need to hear about your activities. putting on airs to justify inactivity.
4.Going to be more indepth with your analysis? Sure, you're writing more. But what about? Your next few posts are about random people who are townies. Why did you do this? You got some pressure from people, saying that it's needless to post this stuff, but you haven't gotten enough pressure imo.
ugh reading over it again, 2 of the 4 town analyses posts you do are about DEAD people already confirmed. You are trying to show your support for their ideas, as they are confirmed green and thus will give you some cred. The other two are hyshes and adam; hyshes = easy lynch target at this point in time, while adam you act all buddy buddy with, agreeing with him to show respect to him.
all of these posts are fluffy and full of words, but lack both consistency and actual substance; why didn't you analyze dirk or shraft, the people ACCUSING you? are they least worthy of analysis, despite the fact that they suspect you?
I'm coming after you in the day, GiygaS.
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Where was that post yesterday ET? O_o
As much as I want to hang GiygaS I would rather hang a lurker this time around. Wouldn't be surprised that atleast 2 mafia are hiding out there chilling.
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On December 28 2011 12:57 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 12:51 Shraft wrote:
In fact, it might be better to just have our vigilante shoot. If we can't get an unanimous lynch going (and, looking at today's lynch, that is highly unlikely) it will be very easy for them to force a no lynch by switching their votes at the very last second. Our vigilante should shoot. No, vigi should not shoot. If they do a mass unvote tomorrow we'll know exactly who they are, then the vigi can shoot one of them tomorrow night and it wont be game over, since they'll be down to 2.
Hmm, yeah, that is true. He shouldn't shoot. He also shouldn't claim tomorrow. Cop and medic should claim though.
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+ Show Spoiler [ET's long post] +On December 28 2011 18:34 EchelonTee wrote:....................that bandwagon did not have to happen. Like seriously, wtf, that was some epic vote switching, even though jay hadn't done shit.
Started by Misder:+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2011 04:03 Misder wrote:
Surprised no one called me out on not being here.
Anyways,
##Vote: jaybrundage
I'm still going to vote him because I think my gut read is correct. I was going to wait til he posted something, but meh.
I think GiygaS is town.
I think Adam is scum (though might be me being paranoid).
I can see a hyshes scum.
Everyone else is null. Your gut read was wrong brah. Interestingly enough your first line reminds me of seph's "surprised that no one called me out for lurking" thing from earlier. You make a bunch of gut assumptions. But you're not the one who's been twisting words to advance these bandwagons. That guy that your gut tells you is town is the one doing fishy shit. Let's examine, shall we? Giygas' post on jay, footnoted with red numbers:+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2011 04:08 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 07:57 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys,
Sorry for not being to active. Internet is a commodity not always provided at my families house.
Ok lets get started. On policy lynches i think that there fine guidelines for how we should act and at the same time we should not follow them blindly and be the main reason we lynch someone.
Onto the good stuff. I think that the sephirotharg case is an interesting one. I do find his first post suspicious.
Trying to soft claim that lurking is ok is honestly pretty anti town. There is not reason to allow it or hint that it's acceptable or we gonna establish a bad town atmosphere. We need people to post what they think so we can get transparency.
I also fine the fact that sephirotharg posted a vote in himself really really weird to be honest. You know people think your suspicious if not just plain scum. Why would you put a vote on your self as a "placeholder" I honestly think its a distraction because why would mafia vote himself. But at the same time why would town vote for himself. Its a action that makes no sense. And when we are trying to get clarity why would you do that.
##Vote sephirotharg
Honestly you seem to want to be voting for the way your acting. Post a solid reason why we should not vote for you. Defend your self give people another case on someone you think is scummy. Something Right off the bat we see hypocrisy, bolded for your leisure . 1Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 09:37 jaybrundage wrote:
Alright sep you just got a warning. As of now i see as scum and you have a lot of votes on you. Plz address these concerns.
And it would be great for you to give your scum reads. As we have about 2 and a half hours till deadline.
If your town tell use everything you know so that we have tools to get scum. Give us everything you got this is the time you can change the vote. Now or never.
Oh and in case my nonbolded vote doesnt count.
##Vote Sephirotharg Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 09:58 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm I find it interesting that you choice to vote for me.
The Sephirotharg so called bandwagon is going so well because hes had some huge scum tells. If you dont realize this then you should reread his posts. I stated why i think hes scummy.
You state its stupid but please do explain that. Dont you think its weird that Sephirotharg instead of defending himself that he just leaves? And the votes for himself just not to get modkilled however he knows people are voting for him but he ignores it. He is much more likly to be lynched at this point.
The part where he edited a post to appear innocent is pretty much nailing him the coffin. A townie would not have to be so conscious of his posts because he has nothing to hide.
He then states at this point he would rather not play the game. He doesn't want to play the game because hes mafia that got caught day one. Kinda sucks but pretty good for town dont ya think.
And if you want to make a case on me go for it.
So far you posted everything about policy lynches which is a great discussion starter. You have to move on sooner or later.
You then vote for me with practically nothing. You claim i haven't contributed but all you talked about was policy lynches. Here are his next two posts, again, I bolded the offensive statements. The guy is fricking bipolar in his first 3 posts. He goes from Kill Seph to Maybe he's town but vote for him anyway, to Kill Seph again (notice the timing of him being attacked by seph based off instructions he gave out to aggressiveness on seph). He's also making a list of what seph has done this game, not detailing WHY it's scummy. But you know the scummiest thing in this last post? He does not defend himself here at all, He doesn't defend himself till the next day, on further prompting. Why wouldn't he do this? 2Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 03:35 jaybrundage wrote:
There is nothing scummy about my action its simple IF YOU VOTE, HAVE A CASE.
I find this part of your defense very interesting, as you had really no case on seph, you were, plain and simple, sheepvoting. Literally all he adds to the discussion this day is that Seph voting for himself has to be scummy, even though almost everyone else agreed, including vets, that it was a null read. You kept going on and on and on and on about it: why? 3This and you just say seph is scummy - "It speaks for itself" without ever giving reason for his scumminess beyond him voting for himself >.<. Another thing - Seph mentionned that you only posted to push Seph's lynch or to defend yourself, and otherwise you were lurking. Guess what's happened now that there's no easy bandwagon and your not the focus of scrutiny? Yep, we're all playing Where's Jay. Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 14:34 jaybrundage wrote:
Sucks Sep was town
Moving on.
I would like to lynch hyshes next he has not attributed much to the discussion at all.
And in general has not posted anything that has any significance Accusations like this are just retarded, no offense. Like seriously, you just make an accusation on him for being inactive, when you said specifically that LynchAllLurkers was a bad idea. Wtf? 4Final reason to lynch JB is that if he dies and is revealed as mafia, we can then lynch Shraft for chainsaw defensing for him. ##Vote jaybrundage Jay is not being hypocritical; he is saying that soft-claiming that lurking is bad, and the he is SORRY for not posting much. He is actually discrediting himself by saying this; yes this makes no damn sense, but all game jay has been saying "im a bad player guys, honest, i havent been able to post much". You take his statement, "i havent been active much" and imply that jay is saying "its ok that i havent been active much right? Word twisting. 2.You are using strong language to try and convey that jay did egregious things; you state that he is being "friggen bipolar" yet if anyone examines jay's three posts, they are not inconsistent. Wishywashy as shit sure, but he is on seph in every one of those posts. The middle post says "if you're town, contribute". Not "i think you might be town... here's a vote anyways". You're twisting that shit up man. 3.what the hell are you even saying here? You are taking jay's quote out of context; he is defending himself by saying that Misder meta'ing him from 1/2 posts is illogical, and that Misder needs a case before accusing. You use this quote as evidence of jay not having a case on seph; read through jay's filter. He doesn't constantly go on and on about seph's self vote, other people continually brought it up. Jay's case was weak, but it had more than once facet. Why are you trying to make jay look one dimensional? 4.twisting words twisting words. where did jay "specifically" say that lynchallurkers was a bad idea. He called suspicion on seph, like everyone else did. That's why his case is weird and weak. Now why is he suspicious? Giygas' defense posts from pressure: From Dirk+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2011 04:07 GiygaS wrote:Defense in bold.Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 22:20 Dirkzor wrote:GiygaS:I would like to kill him. It would atleast be very interesting to see what he flips. (Wow batman slow down... It's ALWAYS interesting what people flip... O_o) + Show Spoiler +On December 24 2011 21:18 Dirkzor wrote:GiygaS:Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 03:28 GiygaS wrote:On Sephiroth (goddamn you were hard to beat in Kingdom Hearts 2 ), I think his post is definitely scummy, and I'm placing my FoS on him, but I am not lynching him yet. I want to see more than one post out of him to decide if I want to lynch him, as I don't believe one singular post should ever be the reason someone is lynched unless it is really extremely crazy. I'm looking forward to his defense and responses to future questions I ask of him and Show nested quote +On December 24 2011 03:30 GiygaS wrote:
Ninja'd.
First of all, you expected to be voted on early? A town would never have that tendency.
You made a comment on your tendencies that just sparks excuses for yourself later on down the road, that's NOT pro-town.
Your last sentence didn't really "generate discussion", as that info was used as a footnote to other people's posts already.
##Vote sephirotharg He adds nothing new other then to hesitate a bit before voting for seph (after his first defence). This could easily be jumping on the wagon that Shraft and myself started. I can't really say anything here other than I disagree. My hesitation to lynch him was merely that, a hesitation, based off my previous experiences. I hate voting for people off one vote to "pressure them" because it starts a bandwagon too easily, but at the time of Sephs second post, I was convinced he was scum (wrongly). I also was the first to analyse (and only) his second post.1 As i wrote earlier (see spoiler) he jumped on the Seph wagon prette early without much reasoning. He don't want to vote on a person with just 1 post but immediatly after sephs 2nd post he votes for him with not much more to go after then after the first post. I thought he was scum after the first post, it was confirmed (for me) in the second post, for the reasons I entailed in that post. Why is that so hard to believe?2After this he have a few post with nothing in them. Then he is gone for almost 24hours and comes back posting this: On December 25 2011 04:49 GiygaS wrote:
I just read seph's defense and I've skimmed throught his whole jaybrundage thing. I'm not sure on him, and not nearly as much as I am on Sephiroth. All I heard in the defense was literally "I'm not mafia, would mafia do this?" can of defense, let alone how many times he mentions "I'm town", or that he's just a noob with a bad strategy. If I read honestly from him one more time I'm going to scream D:
Reading through the rest now. On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. He admits that he just skimmed trough "the whole jaybrundage thing" but in the same post comes to the conclusion that Seph is more scummy than Jay. The reasoning for thinking Seph is scum is okay, but not very in-depth considering how much Seph had actually written to defend himself at this point. I didn't come to the conclusion that Seph was more scummy, I came to the conclusion that he WAS scummy (you must have agreed considering you voted for him too.) I did say I only skimmed through the jay thing because I was saying that I was going to read through it and give my thoughts, which I did in the next post 30 minutes later. I said I was going to post my thoughts, and the throughts weren't really all that in-depth in my mind either that Jay wasn't AS scummy as seph, of course, now I have my doubts on him based off seph's results, going to be looking through his filter some.The last post just screams scumbuddy to me. No reasoning. No logic. Just a statement to further enhance the image that Jay is a good guy. How does it scream scumbuddy? I posted my thoughts that I didn't think Jay was as scummy as Seph, that's it that's all. I'll be honest, I was tunelling on Seph, which I won't do again.3On December 25 2011 06:49 GiygaS wrote:On December 25 2011 06:38 sephirotharg wrote:On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. Care to expand on that? Why do you believe Jay and not me? Lay out your reasoning, convince others. That's the town play. A lot of the stuff on Jay is twisting words to say he's mafia. While the first evidence against you was indeed flavor text (the lurker thing), most of he stuff on you now is how you've reacted to things IMO. Meanwhile Jay only has weird flavor text twisting against him4. BTW, I think the reason he hasn't scumhunted yet is there's pretty much him and you on the chopping block. That and I just get a tone of voice thing in yours that makes it seem you're way more concerned about getting lynched than Jay is, which I usually associate with a mafia. This post is to me a null read. But i'll run over it anyway. The first part (bolded) makes perfectly sense to me. GiygaS argues that the case on Jay is mostly twisting words and then acknowledges that the case on Seph is similar but to him its more _how_ seph responded then what was the actual case. Again i would have liked to see more in-depth analysis. How did Seph react to make you think he was scum? How did Jay react better? Last part of the post is again defending Jay on why he hasn't scumhunted (besides Seph). At this early stage of the game why would you defend someone? It just strikes me as weird since it is hard to get a read this early. Sorry, I'll be more in-depth with my thoughts from now on *salute*All in all not much was done from his side on day1. Would we have missed him if he had not posted at all? (yes he had a few post regarding lynch policy but those are useless) He pushed gently towards Seph in the beginning not overcommiting. Then later comes back and push Seph again without going all out crazy bananas mega case. Small nudges to get wagon on seph to continue while taking of spotlight from potential scumbuddy Jay. On Shraft's coming soon! You hesitating to vote is indicative that you don't want to start a bandwagon, despite claiming that you "thought that he was scum after the first post". This is weird as hell. Maybe it's your playstyle, but when you feel that someone is scummy you press them, you analyze them you check things out. Not wait until the bandwagon is started then comfortably jump in. There's a term for that, I forgot it, but sitting in the middle of the bandwagon is where it's at for scum. Ive said this more than once. Also, you are not the only one to analyze that second post of seph's, I did too.2.It's contradictory because you express reticence to jump onto something, then fn leap onto it when the goings good. Being contradictory makes you hard to believe. 3. You might not be jay's scumbuddy, but you were sure happy tunneling him, despite saying that you weren't going to do any of that nonsense anymore. First you "believe" jay in his defense, then you nail jay using a bunch of ill-conceived tells to get him lynched, while ignoring the defenses that you had previously acknolwedged. Contradictory, while tunneling. 4. ohai scum slip. The case against jay is "twisting words to say he's mafia", eh? Funny that you do exactly that to put jay under. You acknowledge here that the case on jay so far has little substance. When you turn around to tunnel jay, all you CAN do is exactly what you stated: twist words. From Shraft:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 04:32 GiygaS wrote:On December 27 2011 03:06 Shraft wrote:If we're going to win this, there are some players that'll have to start being a lot more active (I'm looking mainly at hyshes here). In fact town as a whole needs to be a lot more active, or else we're going to find ourselves at lylo in two cycles with insufficient information to work with. How do you guys feel about jay? Do you still want to off him or do you think that there's better targets? I think his play is more in line with an emotionally invested townie than scum. My scepticism toward the jay lynch probably stems from the lackluster cases on him. I'd argue that we'll gain less information if we keep arguing jay, and that it'll probably be wiser to bring forth new information on other (less discussed) players, and that we should leave jay to the vigilante(s). The problem with that is that we might not even have one. Anyway, if people find jay scummy they'll probably present more cases pinpointing his scummyness, so hopefully that problem will work itself out. Anyway, I have a new candidate for today's lynch. As the new lynch target I present to you, GiygaS! I first caught sight of him when Dirkzor pointed out his attitude toward jay. His first five posts are (more or less) stuff of no value, arguing policy lynches and general advice. It's basically filler, and thusly I won't analyse it. His first interesting post is this one: On December 24 2011 03:28 GiygaS wrote:First of all, shut up about policies people. I know I won't back down on not implementing them, and Cyber_Cheese won't either. This whole discussion on which policy is better was really only good for generating the first bit of discussion, but now we have people ignoring actually important events to talk about this shit. Stop. On Sephiroth (goddamn you were hard to beat in Kingdom Hearts 2 ), I think his post is definitely scummy, and I'm placing my FoS on him, but I am not lynching him yet. I want to see more than one post out of him to decide if I want to lynch him, as I don't believe one singular post should ever be the reason someone is lynched unless it is really extremely crazy. I'm looking forward to his defense and responses to future questions I ask of him Here, he makes it overly clear that he is not jumping on some bandwagon without thinking it through thoroughly first. This is not a bad habit (to think things through), but from experience, only mafia feel the necessity to announce their thoughtfulness explicitly in the thread. A townie will gladly jump on a bandwagon on loose advice based off of one post in order to pressure someone, whereas scum are scared of voting because it attracts unwanted attention. This townie won't. I have a policy on myself that I won't lynch somebody off one post unless it's super uber duper scummy, which Seph's was not. I don't agree that only mafia will announce their thoughtfulness as at this point I was trying to slow down the suspicions on Seph until we got another post out of him.1Just before GiygaS posted the message above, Sephirotharg posts (GiygaS was ninja'd): On December 24 2011 03:25 sephirotharg wrote:
Well, I'm a bit surprised this didn't happen faster.
Shraft, what do you want me to say? I merely made a comment based on my tendencies - if anything, explicitly stating how I play is pro-town.
Add to my case the fact that I've already acted pro-town, in generating discussion with the last part of my first post, and I'm not sure how you can justify voting for me. After this post, the oh so thoughtful GiygaS posts: On December 24 2011 03:30 GiygaS wrote:
Ninja'd.
First of all, you expected to be voted on early? A town would never have that tendency.
You made a comment on your tendencies that just sparks excuses for yourself later on down the road, that's NOT pro-town.
Your last sentence didn't really "generate discussion", as that info was used as a footnote to other people's posts already.
##Vote sephirotharg Notice how he went from being very hesitant to vote for Sephirotharg to voting for him without providing much thought or reasoning at all. (This happened over a span of two minutes - his first post was made 3:28 and his second 3:30.) This means that all it took was two minutes and a rather contentless post from Seph to turn the thoughful GiygaS into voting-aggressively-without-providing-much-thought-GiygaS. Seems rather odd and inconsistent to me. The only thing that might be interpreted as scummy in Seph's second post is that he tries to proclaim his actions as pro-town, but even taking this into consideration, it seems strange that this would be enough to warrant GiygaS's change in his attitude toward Seph. While this is strange looking back on it, I will agree, I disagree with your conclusion. In my head at the time, I treated Seph as scum, he was already tunneled in my brain. Everything he said was wrong and scummy, you can see that based off my responses to his contentless post, treating it like it was big content. Again, apologies for tunneling.2After placing his vote, GiygaS is content to sit back and wait for the day to end without providing much thought on the cases presented on jay. Nor does he provide any additional thoughts on why he wants sephirotharg lynched. This is what Dirkzor discovered. He simply states: I was content because I was out of the house, it's Christmas holidays and I had shopping and a basketball game to prepare for. Not to mention all my free time was on programming an rpg I'm making for computer science.3On December 25 2011 04:49 GiygaS wrote:
I just read seph's defense and I've skimmed throught his whole jaybrundage thing. I'm not sure on him, and not nearly as much as I am on Sephiroth. All I heard in the defense was literally "I'm not mafia, would mafia do this?" can of defense, let alone how many times he mentions "I'm town", or that he's just a noob with a bad strategy. If I read honestly from him one more time I'm going to scream D:
Reading through the rest now. This is just a contentless post attempting to make it appear as though he actually cares about how the lynch is going or making it appear as though he is contributing and actively thinking about choosing the best target for the lynch. Observe that he just uses blanket statements. He doesn't put any effort in pointing out what is wrong with the cases or just what he doesn't like (more specifically) about Seph's defense. I'm using blanket statements because I didn't want to point out the countless times it happened. I was trying to make it appear that I cared about the lynch because I did, but like you said I was gone for 24 hours.On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. This is straight up buddying with jay. There is not a single reason for a townie to ever simply "believe" another player. The only healthy attitude to have as a townie toward other players is to never give them the benefit of the doubt. Always question them. Always demand of them to provide thoughts and reasons to back their statements. To buddy up with someone is foolish. This is pure anti-town play. I'm going to explain this one sentence post here. I said (or I thought I did at the time) that I was going to look over the jay suspicions, and then I did and I posted my thoughts which were basically that the jay suspicions were null reads. Only when he gets called out by Seph he provides more food for thought, and even then he provides only general fluff and makes no real effort to refer to anything specific. Here's the post: On December 25 2011 06:49 GiygaS wrote:On December 25 2011 06:38 sephirotharg wrote:On December 25 2011 05:23 GiygaS wrote:
Yeah I believe jay in his defense, I'm sticking with seph. Care to expand on that? Why do you believe Jay and not me? Lay out your reasoning, convince others. That's the town play. A lot of the stuff on Jay is twisting words to say he's mafia. While the first evidence against you was indeed flavor text (the lurker thing), most of he stuff on you now is how you've reacted to things IMO. Meanwhile Jay only has weird flavor text twisting against him. BTW, I think the reason he hasn't scumhunted yet is there's pretty much him and you on the chopping block. That and I just get a tone of voice thing in yours that makes it seem you're way more concerned about getting lynched than Jay is, which I usually associate with a mafia. Again, I'll be more in-depth with my analysis from now on when I can.4To conclude: GiygaS is a scummily scummy scum! When day turns to night, I want his body to hang on the gallows of Liquidia! ##Vote GiygaS Analysis coming soon! 1.Stating that it is a "policy" of yours to avoid starting voting is a convenient out; just like policy lynches are a convenient way to avoid discussion, having a policy to your play means that you can say "yeah it looks scummy, but I always play like this so i'm townie". Or, you're scum. Also, contradiction: you say that seph's post "isn't" super scummy, but earlier you said that you thought seph was scum based off his first post. 2.you are justifying your mistake by saying you were "tunneling"; yet you do the same thing with jay? You even acknoweldge that your actions are strange, but by saying that your "conclusion" differs, you acknolwedge your suspicious behavior but cleverly subvert what should be concluded. That you are tunneling townies. 3.you are making excuses for ignoring defenses from people. everyone's busy, town doesn't need to hear about your activities. putting on airs to justify inactivity. 4.Going to be more indepth with your analysis? Sure, you're writing more. But what about? Your next few posts are about random people who are townies. Why did you do this? You got some pressure from people, saying that it's needless to post this stuff, but you haven't gotten enough pressure imo. ugh reading over it again, 2 of the 4 town analyses posts you do are about DEAD people already confirmed. You are trying to show your support for their ideas, as they are confirmed green and thus will give you some cred. The other two are hyshes and adam; hyshes = easy lynch target at this point in time, while adam you act all buddy buddy with, agreeing with him to show respect to him. all of these posts are fluffy and full of words, but lack both consistency and actual substance; why didn't you analyze dirk or shraft, the people ACCUSING you? are they least worthy of analysis, despite the fact that they suspect you? I'm coming after you in the day, GiygaS.
Why'd you go all inactive on us yesterday? If you'd posted this only a few hours earlier, we might have had the power to lynch GiygaS. The vote switch was needed, by the way. If jay hadn't got lynched, we'd have wasted day 2 lynch. Anyway, you seem to be the first one to agree full-out that GiygaS has been acting very scummy this game. I was also displeased with his "analysis", but I was thinking he might just be bad at writing them. Anyway, I'll be pushing for his lynch tomorrow. If GiygaS is scum, there's a good chance that Cyber_Cheese is scum as well. He was quick to disagree with my case on him, and he didn't provide any reasoning about it until I asked him to do so if I recall correctly.
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On December 28 2011 04:03 Misder wrote:
Surprised no one called me out on not being here.
Anyways,
##Vote: jaybrundage
I'm still going to vote him because I think my gut read is correct. I was going to wait til he posted something, but meh.
I think GiygaS is town.
I think Adam is scum (though might be me being paranoid).
I can see a hyshes scum.
Everyone else is null.
I must have missed this post the first time around.
Misder, if you think I am scum, it is your duty to this town to follow this up. Go through my filter and build a case.
At least we can agree on one thing, hyshes. I’ve been trying to push this lynch for over a day now and I’ve met nothing but resistance. I can only assume the worst here, because there’s no damn reason to keep him alive. He’s been evasive, apparently ‘afk’ and written a total of 18 lines this entire game. His two votes were supported by zero analysis or evidence, just dumped on the nearest wagon that was forming. I ask everyone again why has he survived this far?
In regards to EchelonTee’s filter -
Only one line in his analysis of sephirotharg stuck out for me: “that, coupled with your defeatist mentality means you’re either faulty townie with a lynch, or scum.”
found at the bottom of this post.
We are not here to hang faulty townies, only scum.
He only has a dozen or so posts, but at least they are lengthy. His reads don't seem to be lacking in effort.
His sudden re-emergence before the lynch deadline was suspicious. His ‘return’ post states “I don’t feel like making filler posts”, which is a nice idea, but its also a cop-out for not contributing anything. His only reason for being afk was a passing mention of family… well we only have his word on that.
His analysis on giygas is quite compelling. I share your sentiment Dirkzor that I wish it had come before the deadline so we might have changed our votes.
I’d really like to see more out of you EchelonTee, you’ve skated by as a lurker, but that needs to stop.
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Why?
Oh lets see. They were both quite active when we discussed policy lynched in the beginning. 2-4 post for each of them with nothing in it. They both did not jump the wagon for seph but tried to push another townie. Cyber FoS' me and Misder voted Jay with very little. They were both ended up voting jay day 1 (not scummy in itself). They both went through day 2 with minimim effort.
We'll start with misder:
On day1 he was decently active. He was pushing and saying it was obvious that Seph was noobtelling. He did try to push the lynch towards Jay and his vote was on Jay. Seems okay? Not jumping the wagon, trying to find another scummy player.
But remember how easy the wagon for seph was going. Both because of us, the town, and seph's own play. Why meddle in that? Why not just push another townie so you can call it a gut read on day 2 with minimum of effort.
His last post bothers me:
On December 28 2011 14:01 Misder wrote:
Bwhahahaha. Should have known. I really didn't think if jay was scum, they would have let the bandwagon form that quickly.
What bandwagon? The wandwagon, if it was there, came a few hours before lynch. If you think he wasn't scum if it was this 'easy' why didn't you vote giygas or even hyshes. You said you thought giygas was town - okay. But there was lots of time when you voted. Why not push for hyshes then? Or come back to see if the bandwagon went as easy as you thought?
Cyber_Cheese:
Day 1 activity: Discussing policy lynches. FoS' me with a small case. A handfull of fluff posts so he appears to be active: 1 2 3 4 5
After I picked up Misders Jay push he joins in. His case is short and practicly the same as misder wrote. He later shot down some of jays defence.
Day 2 he comes out with a post attacking myself, Shraft, Jay and Hyshes. Jay is confirmed town. Hyshes is the easiest target in the book and Shraft and myself har the most towniest around - imo. This post isn't really a case but it just appears to add to the discussion again. His logic about that i should be scum if jay was scum i can't follow at all. He say that my vote switching saved jay on day 1... I changed TO jay and came back half a day later and knew it was last time to change my vote. Changed to seph to get a lynch. But by his logic I'm town now?! He voted for me after his case on me.
Then changed to Hyshes - the easy target for scum (assuming hyshes is town)
and in the end changed to Jay. Oh and softdefending giygas here: Soft defending giygaS
So all in all i find them scummy.
Edit before posting: when reading this before posting the case didn't turn out as solid as it was in my head... Posting anyway...
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Problem with hyshes is that he is a null read. I would like to send him of to the devil or whatever he believes in, but where does it leaves us if he flips town?
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EPT
*blitz blitz* Miiiiiiiiisdeeer!!!! *blitz blitz* 
