Responsibility Mafia! - Page 4

On December 23 2011 14:42 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
That would also explain why GM released all his reads. If you believe my analysis of this, then congrats. I am now confirmed town by GM's death, or at the very least, confirmed not mafia. If only he said specifically how his role worked, oh well.

On December 23 2011 14:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
He's apologizing in case he dies. I am guessing he has some sort of conscience where if he doesn't target a mafia then he dies. This post reads like a last will and testament because GM knew he was going to die. This could also explain why I didn't die or get notified of getting hit at all. His hit is only successful if its on a mafia, or he dies instead. This would also fit nicely with the theme of the game too.

On December 23 2011 15:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
More likely, the mafia was going to let GM kill himself/whoever else since it wasn't them, and as a result GM hit me and killed himself because I am town aligned.

On January 04 2012 05:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
In terms of real time questioning I'm around right now, I have something at 5pm PST until 9:30pm PST but if you're still awake after that we could talk then as well.

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Right off the bat he starts putting soft pressure on Sheth. Super easy target this is like Sheth’s second game, it’s not gonna be hard at all to get a ball rolling against him if you want to.

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
In his subsequent posts he continues to call out BC, and Foolishness and Sheth. This pattern continues for the rest of the day until we get to the lynch. At this point, Kita keeps his wording vague. Using phrases such as “I'm leaning scum on GM and uncertain/null on LSB” Kita keeps his reads very muddy and uncertain. If either GM or LSB are lynched and flip town then you certainly aren’t going to be able to associate it with him. This is important in two ways, one because mafia never want to be in the center of attention, and the other is to distance himself from WBG who is one of the pilots of the day one lynch. Kita first votes for GM saying “I know it may look like an OMGUS, but this really isn't the GM town play that I'm used to, so that is where my vote is going for the moment.” With this enourmous vote of confidence (sarcasm) kita finishes this post by once again asking people if they would like to lynch foolishness. With 20 minutes left in the day, kita completes his distancing of himself from a lynch that would have killed a townie either way and votes for foolishness.

In his post lynch thoughts, kita comes up with this gem “Chezinu or Foolishness obviously wasn't going to get lynched” -_- dot dot dot, guess who had his vote on foolishness at the end of the day. He then bashes RoL for putting a placeholder vote on chez but if he’s angry about worthless votes then there’s someone a lot closer to home who needs some attention

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Now we’re on to the next day, you’d think we’d be ready to hear more about foolishness however Kita punts on this one, “Looking back at his [foolishness’s] past games on day one, they all seem pretty similar, with minimal posting and a bit of trolling regardless of alignment. I'm still learning scum on him based on his general attitude and would probably be willing to lynch him today, but I'm having trouble coming up with a strong case against him from the current set of posts. As for his case against bugs, I'm leaning town on bugs at the moment. “ This is just terrible. Not only do we have continued shots at foolishness’s credibility, we also have kita calling WBG likely town after the LSB debacle. It’s actually not so much the lynch itself that kita is defending WBG against, it’s foolishness’s accusations which have a history of being chillingly accurate.

This is actually a pretty big deal right here. Foolishness was a huge threat to the scum team this game, he nailed half of it. Kita has spent the entire game trying to discredit him and here he
is directly defending a confirmed scum, and not only that, a scum that foolishness named.

On December 24 2011 23:36 kitaman27 wrote:


What exactly has he done so far that "looks exactly like his town play"? Could you be more specific?

As for BC, what makes him different than another lurker, say GGQ?

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So syllo (who is scum) shoots down his idea of lynching prplhz. He then suggests that he’d like to lynch a lurker and BC would be his number one choice. What does kita say? If you all guessed “he says yeah I’ve been calling BC scummy all game long let’s do it” you’re wrong. Instead he says “lol wut about GGQ.” -_-. Here’s what I think happened. Kita isn’t agreeing with syllo just to be on the safe side and it doesn’t appear that they are buddying. Kita read syllo’s post and decided to just deflect the topic about BC so he doesn’t get associated with syllo. This is the only explanation I can think of. A townie who hears someone agree with them generally goes “yeah me too, let’s look into it” a townie doesn’t know the alignment of who they’re talking to, all they know is that someone else thinks they’re right so why not explore this option. But Kita doesn’t do this. He instead casually distances himself with syllo by not fully engaging him.

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Seriously? He just flat out says that BC made the vig shot. Nothing like “oh he’s lying about the vigi shot, he’s only mentioning it now because it seems like a safe claim.” No arguments like that. Instead he’s gonna lynch him because he made a bad vig shot. That’s just plain pants on head retarded if you’re town, kita admits in his post that BC made the shot sooooo doesn’t that make him a confirmed townie? No one cc’d him. It’s just poor reasoning. A better argument against BC would have been that he’s lying about the vigi shot because that would at least mean there’s a possibility of being BC being scum.

However from a scum perspective this slip actually makes sense. Kita knows that BC made the shot and he can truthfully say that it was a stupid shot. He’s forgotten along the way however is that a) BC could be lying about the shot and b) if he’s not then the shot is confirmed. So as a tl;dr there are two problems with his reasoning. One is that he’s attacking BC from a non townie angle. The second is that if he does accept that BC is telling the truth (which according to his post he did) then he’s blatantly voting for someone who is confirmed (at least according to his logic).

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:


Look at his scum team. He’s got his favorite targets of the entire game, but look who else made the list (drum roll fanfare) L! now other than a briefly directed question, Kita has never called out L at all. This is an extremely random scum suspect. What is the motivation for putting L here? I admit that I don’t know how kita thinks, but my bet would be that he felt like he should put one mafia on his list to make it more believable. It’s the same reason syllo made his secondary list. The thing is, none of the town know that L is mafia so putting him there really serves no purpose except it plays into the inherent guilt of scum. It doesn’t matter that we don’t know L is scum, kita knows and in a subconscious attempt to make his list more believable he’ll put in L. It also gives L (and to a lesser extent syllo) something to go back to and quote if Kita gets killed at some point.

On January 04 2012 17:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Next up is Kita’s current claim to town fame, his lynch on L. Here’s the thing, he’s not actually the first person to go after L on day 3. Bum is actually the first person to call out L with his very first post of the day. Kita isn’t even the second person to mention L as possible scum, prplhz, and RoL call L scum. Even Syllo beats around the bush saying that “In terms of balance L is probably scum but I don’t think we should kill him today” (paraphrase( and this is the main reason why I killed syllo for posterity sake)). The pressure on L doesn’t stop there, Bum continues to call him out going so far as to flat out say that L is scum. Keep in mind, this has all happened before kita does his analysis on L. Even Sheth manages to call L mafia and since Chez was absent, that’s every player in the game who is not L or Kita who has called L scum or at least hinted at it on day 3. Bum starts the voting on L, everyone in the game has called L scum at least once except for kita.

On January 03 2012 06:27 bumatlarge wrote:


I'm not certain on anyone right now. Kita has been constantly active this entire game, and reading his posts more, he has quite a few hiccups in his reads. He goes all over the place, calling Sheth, Foolishness, prphlz, BC, then actual scum in L. I think I need to read more into the L lynch to see if mafia were really "Fuck it, vote L", like syllo did as the 5th person on the wagon. Kita made his read on L very clear an hour after I voted L.



This is a few hours before anyone even mentions L as a lynch target, and it was after a whole response to Sheth's kita analysis. Kita as scum could have just put his vote on Sheth after calling him scummy, but he decides to push L instead. If the scum team was Kita/L/syllo, I don't understand why kita didn't take the easy way out with pushing sheth which I proabably would have gotten behind or jumping on RoL. It explains sheth being roleblocked, if they feared him shooting Kita, but that's all I can reason out. I believe kita did shoot syllo, though Kita didn't mention that he had a strong read on syllo before the shot. Kita has not been posting scared, and all his actions have a very townie perspective, even though he only started getting results late-game, and then he posted everything I was thinking. I'm gonna say Town.

Meapak/Chezinu has been a rough read, because a relevant part of the game was played by chezinu who I can't really decipher well, and I pride myself in being a good judge of random posters. Meapak's reads thus far in the game have been a claimed shot on syllo (there was no in-thread analysis, but there was only a night cycle for him to do this), and a sheth lynch, which all of us are guilty of. Other then that, I'm not mustering much townie points in his favor.

The abscence of his vote at a lylo scum lynch; a non-refunded shot dual claim on, in my opinion, a less prominent scum; and a random Roleblock claim that has zero reason behind it. Suspicious shifty shit shapes scummy standards.

I just need to review RoL again. I'm still hazy on the roleblock thing and what not. L went ballsdeep on RoL (sexy) the day he got lynched. I think we are basing RoL being confirmed based on his BC hit right? Hmmm. It does seem pretty straightforward if during the night you make me out to be superduper town and then shoot me because you aren't a roleblocker. If there was a scum medic, then that would explain both GM and Foolishness missing their hits. No, I am not content in throwing that in the trashcan.

Mostly I'm certain Kita is town. If he's not he deserves to win. Kita, I think it's gonna be down to you deciding who is scum between Cheazpak and RoL. I'd probably go with Cheeseypak, because RoL being scum does require him to be a scum-vig (or some awful townie vig) and having a scum medic.

On December 22 2011 05:53 kitaman27 wrote:
lol what you are you two even arguing about? How is the percentage of games that scum get lynched day one even relevant? Who cares what the percentages are on MS or how the last 20 games have gone? Even if it was really poor odds, you still try to find scum regardless.

L, your Metric post is nice and all, but who exactly did you catch? It's not a very good trap if you don't mention anyone that has fallen for it.

On December 23 2011 01:15 kitaman27 wrote:
There were also several other people who disappeared from the discussion, such as L and BC.

On December 23 2011 14:39 kitaman27 wrote:


If that was the case, why in the world would GM not inform us who he really shot after the 12:00 deadline? He had around 20 minutes to share who he really would have shot, during a time which the scum team wouldn't be able to change their actions. Are you purposely trying to shift focus away from RoL or something?

On December 23 2011 15:07 kitaman27 wrote:


That doesn't make sense at all. GM knows he is a suicide vig, so why would he leave it a mystery to who he really shot? He knows that it is highly likely that he will die if his shot is wrong. He wouldn't leave us in the dark knowing that he would likely never have a chance to reveal his true target. That wouldn't be a hyper pro-town move in the slightest.

On December 27 2011 13:35 kitaman27 wrote:
@L, have you been looking through posts for three days straight or do you just not care? Why does it matter who jackal was suspicious of? I want to know who you are suspicious of.

On December 28 2011 14:03 kitaman27 wrote:
L- Seems to be discussing a lot of things that aren't very relevant distracting town. Hasn't given us any solid analysis.

On December 29 2011 07:25 kitaman27 wrote:
I think L is scum, either chez or RoL is scum, and either you or syllo is the third.

On December 29 2011 09:22 kitaman27 wrote:


First off, when L is asked about fishing for blue roles, he responds that he did it because other players would have likely caught on. He then proceeded to list the six players better than him at role reading "for future reference". This list is completely irrelevant. He states that 25% of the game being scum means 1-2 of them on the list are probably scum. That is equivalent to selecting six random players and saying 1-2 are scum. He lists me and curu/sandro as being people with better blue reads than him, yet I've only ever played one game with him as a newbie and curu/sandro haven't even played any. He is likely just listing six of the most experienced players and immediately casting doubt on them from the start of the game.



Next L comes up with this extremely long post about some Metric he came up with for catching scum. He acts as if he set up a trap to catch scum. The one problem? He never mentions anyone that he actually caught. This reminds me exactly of my "trap" in LotR mafia, where I tried to explain that I was trapping scum with the knowledge that I was Radfield's mason partner, yet never actually brought up anyone that I caught.

He then proceeds to argue with Palmar about the win rate of town on day one. This is a common theme of L's play this game. He is more than willing to argue about things that have absolutely no impact on the game, yet when it comes to scum hunting, he really doesn't seem to care at all.

After that, L decides to give his reads on every single player in the thread. It looks as if he is making a contribution, but he never follows through with any of his reads.

The weirdest point comes when L insists that GM lied about his vig target. This makes absolutely no sense. GM posted his shot target when night actions would have been locked. Scum couldn't react to his target, so there is no reason not to post who he was targeting. He argues with me and chaoser that keeping the town in the dark was a good thing, but in reality L is only distracting the town with misdirection. He cares more about figuring out the night actions than finding who is scum. He tries to get himself out of it by asking other people to present a valid explanation of night actions, while knowing that only scum have the ability to know how everything turned out.

When pressed for delivering a scum suspect, he promises to contribute later, but never does. He says he was looking through jackals filter and explains who Jackal thought was scum, but never explains who he thinks is scum. He mentions me as a good vig target on night two, without ever bringing me up previously, with his only reasoning being that my posts are "careful".

Overall, L is more than willing to talk about things that don't matter, yet has no interest in finding scum.

##Vote L

On December 29 2011 11:18 kitaman27 wrote:


oh so now we're the scum team because we decided to vote for you? How about this one:



bum goes from huge content and very town to doing relatively little and playing very conciliatory? Do you have no comments on the case made against you rather than just calling us scum for bringing it up? You seem to try to pass it off as being the target of Foolishness's shot, but there has been much more than you never address.

On January 04 2012 01:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Then I look at Kitaman, he started the lynch on L, but that's not really the important part. Look at the mafias position going into that, it was a 5v3 situation and they needed one last mislynch, L was reaming into me hard trying to force my mislynch it doesn't REMOTELY look like he was setting himself up to get bussed, he was pushing for the end game right there. Instead Kita pushes his lynch and it gets flipped on L. I read him yesterday, but it would require an impeccable scum game from Kita for this read to be wrong and all the things he did be setting up the illusion of being town.

With those two reads I had the process of elimination and that leaves bumatlarge, I could only hope his filter didn't disagree with me, and it didn't. But I have work, so the rest of that comes later.

On December 21 2011 08:34 Foolishness wrote:
List of people who have made a post that's a giant wall of text:

wherebugsgo
bumatlarge
Ver
L

On December 21 2011 13:51 Foolishness wrote:
I will support BC in everything at this point because he used the word asshattery.

On December 22 2011 09:51 Foolishness wrote:
##Vote: LSB

I will be back before day ends to change if necessary. I'm still against but as always I'd rather lynch than no lynch.

+ Show Spoiler +

On December 22 2011 13:33 Foolishness wrote:
##Unvote: LSB
##Vote: GMarshal

aaawwwwwww yeah!

On January 06 2012 15:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
If you really want to talk about this more bum I suppose we can, but I don't feel like rehashing every point that's been made against kita, its redundant. You were all for killing him a page ago.

On January 07 2012 00:35 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I was scum in this game, I kept it as something to post in case of emergency since its counter intuitive for mafia to need to keep a reads list, but keeping this list also allowed me to keep track of players I wanted to kill.

On January 06 2012 15:43 bumatlarge wrote:
He also accuses RoL in that same post, but I'm interested in the hits. Mafia would have to have some real manpower to pull off these hits AND BC. RoL was claiming the BC hit forever. I know for a fact the last mafia is a roleblocker. Was RoL's positioning really such that they would have their roleblocker claim the hit that another mafia made? It doesn't fit right with me.

On January 06 2012 15:43 bumatlarge wrote:
Though I'm still boggling over the GM > BC, then Fool > L. Both survived. The fuck. No one has come up with a better explanation then roleblocks.

On January 07 2012 02:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Kita, we now know as fact that Chezinu was never roleblocked, which means there was a roleblock and chances are it was mafia RBing Gmarshal to set him up for the next days lynch when he failed to follow through on his promise to kill someone. They didn't count on BloodyC0bbler killing Gmarshal instead. This explains where that roleblock went and why I didn't die and has been realized as a possibility since Meapak said Chezinu wasn't really roleblocked. Now we KNOW Chezinu is town and we can infer that the roleblock was actually on GM the same time BC hit him, hence why I am still alive and GM is dead.

On December 23 2011 15:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
GM Couldn't of been roleblocked because then he wouldn't of been dead. So if he faked his hit to mislead mafia then changed it last minute to try to kill me and he was roleblocked then he wouldn't of killed himself, which means the mafia would of had to RB + hit him, which means there would be 4 hits unaccounted for, which is bad and probably not possible since we know someone claimed killing palmar, that would leave 4 other hits in mafia hands.

More likely, the mafia was going to let GM kill himself/whoever else since it wasn't them, and as a result GM hit me and killed himself because I am town aligned. This would leave 3 hits unaccounted which could be an SK kill and 2 mafia, or just mafia kills. Much more reasonable.

Either way, we can be certain that GM was NOT roleblocked, otherwise it leaves an absurd amount of KP unaccounted for, so he must of killed himself. Any other explanation would be elaborate as shit and confusing therefore, we defer to Occam's and we have our answer.

Then I look at Kitaman, he started the lynch on L, but that's not really the important part. Look at the mafias position going into that, it was a 5v3 situation and they needed one last mislynch, L was reaming into me hard trying to force my mislynch it doesn't REMOTELY look like he was setting himself up to get bussed, he was pushing for the end game right there. Instead Kita pushes his lynch and it gets flipped on L. I read him yesterday, but it would require an impeccable scum game from Kita for this read to be wrong and all the things he did be setting up the illusion of being town.

On December 29 2011 07:07 syllogism wrote:

Very possible, but nothing in above is related to that. Why are you making these bad logical leaps in LYLO?

On December 29 2011 19:20 syllogism wrote:
Sheth: That's not "proof" at all, but I agree with L being the safest lynch today

##vote L