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syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
December 21 2011 09:57 GMT
#361
I thought it was a pretty dumb case, so pretty much what I would expect. Not sure about the forced part because it takes some forcing for me to read his posts in general. As for the SK part, he seemed to be saying that lsb knows there is a SK because he is mafia but that's stupid because OP only says they'll be given some sort of list of blues and not third parties. And the OP does hint about the possibility of other black roles than just the traitor
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
December 21 2011 10:03 GMT
#362
The case on GMarshal would simply be "he doesn't offer anything but policy lynches".

What do you think about chaoser mentioning that he thinks he knows what GM is doing? Whatever GM is doing I'm pretty certain it's dumb as shit. I can't think of anything that looks like a plan based on how GM has been posting.
Computer says mafia
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
December 21 2011 10:11 GMT
#363
I thought it may have been a trap to see who would immediately jump on him but that doesn't really work when there's no follow up, which may be what chaoser was alluding to. That or triggers hurrr
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
December 21 2011 10:13 GMT
#364
Perhaps trying to inflame at least one of the heads of the hydra to try and get a read?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
December 21 2011 10:19 GMT
#365
That doesn't actually work VE, because if the hydra is scum there is no reason to react to something like that because it's terrible.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
December 21 2011 10:21 GMT
#366
You never responded about L and BC syllo, what do you think of those two?
Computer says mafia
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
December 21 2011 10:23 GMT
#367
On December 21 2011 19:21 Palmar wrote:
You never responded about L and BC syllo, what do you think of those two?

Both completely worthless so far, so potentially decent lynches even today
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
December 21 2011 10:38 GMT
#368
I find it kinda infuriating that the problem is not finding someone to lynch, but rather deciding which useless person is most likely to flip scum. In a game like this I'd expect everyone to look town on day 1, yet I have only a few town reads at the moment. Seriously, the student mafia town was better than this.

GMarshal is getting my vote. All he has given us is the idea of policy lynching the hydra, which includes sandroba who is one of the best players in this game. It's straight up beneficial to scum to get him killed off. In addition, GMarshal has stated outside games that he always suggests a Chezinu policy lynch regardless of his alignment. The fact that he brought it up here without actually pushing it looks very much like him bringing it up because he knows we expect him to. That's what I meant when I asked GM the question he hasn't responded to yet earlier.

I don't even care if GM is right or wrong about the hydra because that's subjective (is he harder to read? are hydras better for town or scum?), the problem I have is that he doesn't offer us anything beyond that, and in a game of veterans only I'd expect us to do better than to policy lynch something on day one.

All in all, I see no town reasons for playing the way GM is playing right now. Look to Cosmic Horror if you want to see how I'd expect a town GM to play on day 1.

##Vote GMarshal
Computer says mafia
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
December 21 2011 10:44 GMT
#369
Can you guys clue me in to what you consider to be 'worth something'? Because you call everyone worthless, and I'm failing to see how that's any better than any of them giving a whole list of null reads. Most everyone you guys have mentioned has said who they find suspicious, and I'm just not seeing why you're calling these people worthless.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
December 21 2011 10:44 GMT
#370
Palmar, what happened to your L suspicion? Gone with the wind?
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
SamuelLJackson
Profile Joined December 2011
223 Posts
December 21 2011 10:45 GMT
#371
I'm here now, I was playing spaz/out all day. And yes I voted LSB based on flimsy evidence to get discussion to move on from the useless shit it was before. I don't know much about L, I have no previous info on him, but I thought his first couple posts were okayish because they were really early on and there wasn't much to comment on at the time. His later posts though keep following the same pattern and that's more suspicious. BC's post really did rub me in the wrong way because he ressurected the shit topic that I wanted to move away from for no reason and didn't comment on anything else besides saying that chezinu/bum were really insightful (lol). GM I want to give a chance to step up, but I agree that he will make a fine day 1 lynch if he decides not to.

@L I see you included us on your arbitrary "list" of I don't even know what (people who can read roles?) but I'm pretty sure neither me or curu has ever played with you before and seeing that you are gone for a long time you don't strike me as someone that reads recent games. Care to explain your reasoning to posting such list? You also jump to the conclusion that there must be 1-2 mafia in that arbitrary list of nothingness. Any particular explanation for that?

@palmar/syllo I don't know if I'm just biased but I didn't like any of wiggles posts. What do you guys think of them?

/sandroba
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
December 21 2011 10:45 GMT
#372
On December 21 2011 19:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar, what happened to your L suspicion? Gone with the wind?


I can only vote one person per day.
Computer says mafia
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7468 Posts
December 21 2011 10:52 GMT
#373
On December 21 2011 19:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Can you guys clue me in to what you consider to be 'worth something'? Because you call everyone worthless, and I'm failing to see how that's any better than any of them giving a whole list of null reads. Most everyone you guys have mentioned has said who they find suspicious, and I'm just not seeing why you're calling these people worthless.

You just got moved up to my ally list below the bum. FINALLY! someone else is using the define useless argument besides me. I've been asking that question for a long time.. still no reply...Welcome to the family.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
December 21 2011 10:53 GMT
#374
Wiggles' posts regarding GM/you was quite strange. The one about LSB made a bit more sense in terms of content, but was still rather cautious
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7468 Posts
December 21 2011 10:55 GMT
#375
On December 21 2011 19:45 SamuelLJackson wrote:
to get discussion to move on from the useless shit it was before.

useless... oh you mean when everyone wanted to lynch you? You gotz scared? I understand. That was a brilliant move. Shift the blame tactic.. my new v-eyes is on to you..
lol, clueless in The Prism!
SamuelLJackson
Profile Joined December 2011
223 Posts
December 21 2011 10:55 GMT
#376
@LSB The reason of no follow up on chezinu is because Curu wants him dead while I don't, because I enjoy reading his posts and would rather wait and see than preemptively lynch him. So I moved the discussion to another topic because I didn't think w/e we were discussing at that time was providing any useful info. I didn't catch him on skype yet so you are pretty much getting these different opinions from the same poster. I can understand being against lynching foolishness day1 and I think it makes sense even in this roster. Another thing I'd like to comment is that you mockingly say "I mean, he was the one who believed chezinu was claiming traitor". Tbh I don't really know if that was a traitor claim or not, but it at least looked like one. You seem confident that it isn't, any particular reason?
SamuelLJackson
Profile Joined December 2011
223 Posts
December 21 2011 10:57 GMT
#377
@chezinu pretty weird that you are throwing suspicion on me while following bum's orders and unvoting me at the same time. If you want to imply something, be a man and take some responsibility.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
December 21 2011 11:01 GMT
#378
On December 21 2011 19:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Can you guys clue me in to what you consider to be 'worth something'? Because you call everyone worthless, and I'm failing to see how that's any better than any of them giving a whole list of null reads. Most everyone you guys have mentioned has said who they find suspicious, and I'm just not seeing why you're calling these people worthless.


I'll try to be nice but you're starting to annoy me VE.

GM's posts are completely worthless, the reason is that nothing he has posted furthers our goals of finding mafia. Here's his best attempt at provoking/scumhunting in the thread:

On December 20 2011 21:39 GMarshal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2011 18:59 L wrote:
RE: The hydra
I have no idea what/who this is, but I think I happened across it twice reading the thread. Is this someone's nickname? I haven't kept up with the last few (months of) games, so hook a brother up.


A hydra is an account shared by two players, in this case SamuelLJackson shared by Curu and Sandroba. They are, of course the ideal target for a day one lynch! As they have the issue of being extremely difficult to read, because of the two heads.

##Vote: SamuelLJackson

Also, as much as I love Chezinu, is anyone up for either policy lynching him or teaching me how the hell you get a grasp on his alignment? I enjoy his insanity, but its hardly conducive to figuring out his alignment.


This is useless for a town point of view, the possible goal of this is to either get the hydra lynched (which he does a stunningly bad job at), or to provoke a reaction (which won't work because there is no actual case, just a policy, you can't argue with dumb policies).

So, this post does nothing to further our goals.

On December 21 2011 01:59 GMarshal wrote:
Or we could just ignore roles and work on analysis, since in a half flip setup with completely unknown mechanics its going to be hard to sort out truth from lies.


Funny, coming from the man with the least amount of effort put into the thread.

Another worthless post.

Sadly, GM isn't the only person posting like that. Read BC's only post in the game here:


On December 21 2011 13:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
OK, this game is seriously wtf balls at the moment. To state a few things after my quick read through the thread. Bum and chez regardless of alignment have actively helped people regardless of what people may or may not believe. Their posts illustrate what I am saying. If you cannot find it now it will become apparent later.

As for the general play of this game. It is responsibility mafia. This should just mean Ver has made a game that is designed to stop blatant asshattery. Playing badly will get punished is the general take.

Now one point of this game that has me instantly glued to is the whole idea of RNG day 1 lynch. L is saying its anti town to base an initial lynch off it while palmar believes it is pro town. Guess what? L is right, Palmar is wrong.

RNG the person who is lynched gives no real onus to the player or players responsible for the name being brought up and then lynched. In a game with a no flip on role mechanic will also not let us glean information about the games setup. Since the advantage of discussing lynch choices day 1 is forcing people to take a stand via analysis not luck. If you analyze player x and they flip town you look slightly bad. If the logic used was poor then information was garnered on the accuser.

If you RNG a day 1 lynch it is a crap shot and you learn near nothing from the lynch except the few peoples stance on RNG who started the process.

Now as Palmar is pushing an obvious shitty play I will quote something of his.

Show nested quote +
On December 20 2011 08:05 Palmar wrote:
Alright people, let's make this a game worth referencing to new people if they want to see how mafia should be played.

No lazy posting, no bullshit.



Step your game up, for your post you have a filter of terribly uninspired posts talking about very neutral topics.


BC only brings up three points in this entire post.

1. He vaguely says Chez/Bum might be useful at some point in the game. I have no clue how he reached this conclusion and he doesn't offer any explanation.

2. He brings up RNG long after the discussion on that had died down. There is absolutely no reason to even talk about it, either town does it early in the day or ignores it. This is why I never push the idea beyond the first few hours of the game, because it hurts discussion if it gets shot down.

3. He tells me to stop making vague posts (how ironic).

Do you think any of these points further our goals in finding mafia? Do you think that because of this post we are more likely to hit scum today? I don't think so.

Thus this post is worthless.
Computer says mafia
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
December 21 2011 12:54 GMT
#379
That's right boys and girls, it's time for...

Lynching Lurkers
Starring: Palmar


In today's episode, we'll take a look at one of the scummiest bastards in the game, Palmar.

Chapter 1: L
Initially, he took the stance that L was being worthless and had to die. And by had to die, I mean had to be prodded into activity by randomly slinging shit at him most of the day. I called him out for it, because I haven't found much of a problem with L's posts, and because it looked like he was setting up going for the easy lurker lynch. Right before Palmar switched gears, L had a grand total of THREE in-game posts. This means that in spite of everything that's going on, everyone with content in the thread and all the information that's been gained so far, the scummiest person by his estimation has been a lurker. It's worth noting that I defended L's contributions at this point, and I'm not only not scummy for defending one of his scum reads, but not even acknowledged as having said anything to him at all. This is interesting, because the discussion about L's contributions was still going on when Palmar returned to the thread. Rather than comment further on why L is "useless" and should be lynched, he switches gears entirely.

Chapter 2: GMarshal
He and syllogism agree that GM is very useless. I mean, there's only so much you can do with FOUR in-game posts...but at any rate, again, Palmar is going after the LURKERS here, so GM makes for an excellent target. He concludes that the case on GM boils down to "contributes nothing but Policy Lynches"...nevermind that at the only time in-game that GM has been posting in the thread, that was what was being discussed. That's not important. What's important is that GM hasn't contributed anything to the thread but Policy Lynches. I agree that this isn't the most phenomenal contribution, but keep in mind that this is a game chock full of veterans plus a couple decent newer players. I find it rather hard to believe that GM has 'scummily active-lurked in the thread', which MIGHT justify lynching someone with FOUR IN-GAME POSTS. And it's not as if GM has been derailing discussion with his policy lynches. They're simply all he's showed up to contribute so far. But according to Palmar, that's fucking SCUMMY bro. Why? Why is the fact that GM hasn't come back into the thread halfway through the day scummy? He can't be busy? Why condone a lynch on someone who has almost no information down in the thread when there are so many people in town who have contributed more than GM and have actual information to analyze? He even states that "I expect we can do better than a half-assed policy-lynch D1"...WHILE CONDONING A LURKER LYNCH WITHOUT EVEN ANALYZING ANYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING IN-THREAD!!! He's taking the path of least resistance hoping to snag a few followers so that when he's safely away from the almost inevitable townie lynch today, he doesn't look suspicious. I'm fucking calling it. Anyway, I call him out again because I'm starting to notice a trend. I ask he and syllogism to explain what they mean by useless, because that seems to be what they both consider the majority of the active player-base to be. Palmar responds with another analysis, this time BloodyC0bbler, another lurker

Chapter 3: BloodyC0bbler
He opens by attempting to diplomatically "play nice" with me, because for some reason, talking to him about the game is "starting to piss him off"...I hadn't even hinted at suspicion of him at this point, I've simply been asking questions and trying to interact with him, townie to "townie". At any rate, he then goes on to describe why BC's ONE post is scummier than the whole thread, excepting GM's Policy Lynches...because that's where his vote is. Like, the arrogance of thinking you can catch scum in as little as 2 posts, when there's so much other information to analyze, is astounding to me. BloodyC0bbler has all of TWO in-game posts in this thread, and one is a drunk post that has literally ZERO content. So he's basing his analysis of his other top suspect off of ONE post. I'm incredulously shaking my head at the screen while typing this just thinking about it.

Epilogue
I dabble in divination. Sometimes I think I can see the future. I predict that Palmar will be infuriated with my case. That suddenly, I'm just 'bad' all over again, in spite of him having stated IN-THREAD that he feels I've "proven I can scumhunt". I predict that he'll dismiss my case entirely. I also predict that I'll have far more support for his lynch than he anticipates. Time will tell. But I think Palmar is scum.

tl;dr
Palmar's suspects : Their Post-count
L : 3
GM : 4
BC : 2 (1)

Rather than scumhunt, Palmar is on a lurker witch-hunt. It's lazy scum play. Palmar admits his scum play is terrible. You do the math.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
December 21 2011 12:59 GMT
#380
And in case that wasn't clear enough...

##Unvote: Foolishness
##Vote: Palmar
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
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