Election Mafia

On December 09 2011 10:31 Zona wrote:

Including the day 1 "election" to be lynched?

On December 10 2011 01:36 layabout wrote:
what exactly is a hydra?
and does it move slowly?

On December 10 2011 01:44 kitaman27 wrote:
GreYMisT a corsair? Did you join the noble protoss cause?

On December 12 2011 06:18 xsksc wrote:
Who is this Sheth guy anyway?

On December 12 2011 06:45 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Whats WIFOM ? And yea, thats interesting picture of me when I was a child. You now have a somewhat ok read on me for when I'm lieing. Figured sence I havn't played any mafia here before, I'd give you some help in the form of those statements. Town for life!

On December 12 2011 07:00 risk.nuke wrote:
Kita, please make me a hydra bane.

You are Herkules. You spent your childhood beeing neglected by your father, the king. You hate hydras. Day 1 you may kill all the hydras. Also your unlynchable due to your half-god blood. You can choose to ignore democracy and lynch whoever you want cause you're crazy strong.

In addition everything that the townies say must praise either your strenght, your intelligence or your unmatched sexual prowess.

On December 12 2011 06:56 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Ok cool thanks. And yea I liked Princess Bride. I get it !

On December 12 2011 07:14 risk.nuke wrote:

I'm recruiting gm's smurf army. they're in the torches & forkpitch business,

On December 12 2011 07:47 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Hm, so question that is somewhat important, have any of you guys been to any live events and played mafia with TL there? o o

On December 12 2011 14:28 prplhz wrote:

You'll have to ask the host about that but I doubt you'll get an answer. In PYP:Interesting scum could choose to have one of their members become a bodyguard that didn't protect the elected officials, but in the game the elected offices knew who the bodyguards were so that's a different scenario. The daypost alludes to the bodyguard being assigned using an unspecified algorithm, but I think we can assume that the bodyguard is effective in all cases, and that kinda means that he's very likely not scum.

On December 12 2011 14:33 GreYMisT wrote:
/confirm

One thing of note this game is the difference in power that the mayor and the pardoner have in this game, because the mayor does not decide the day1 lynch, and the pardoner gets 2 votes. I am of the opinion that pardoner's powers should be used in extremely rare cases, and I mean really rare. All it does is serve to create WIFOM, and a repeat of the previous day. while it is obvious that we should try to elect people we think are town, I think the mayor should be someone who also has good scumhunting capabilites, while the pardoner needs to be REALLY town. Therefore i recommend people hold off their votes for now until we hear more from each of the canidates, aside from "look at all the games i was town in!"

On December 12 2011 14:53 Comprissent wrote:


If you are uneasy about him, then why don't you vote him for pardoner in order to keep better tabs on him?

By your logic I would like to keep someone questionable in the pardoner office as it is easier to keep track of his/her actions

On December 12 2011 15:09 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
@Greymist What do you think about what prplhz just said above your post?

On December 12 2011 16:17 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
i dont like how the general attention is focussed on the election and not on the lynch...
@prplhz, i have to start somewhere right?!

On December 12 2011 16:53 prplhz wrote:
@DEUS-ex-MAFIA Oh, I thought you said "GO to reread what they've done so far ;-)" like you'd found something and wanted people to seek it out too.

Anyway, I agree that elections should really be locked down as fast as possible, and on Radfield/Arctocod/ProfessorBadass. I don't particularly care too much who we elect among those though I'll strongly recommend Arctocod because that hydra is the best townie in the game, but I'll vote for any of these if it will keep anybody else out of office.

@GreYMisT I personally don't see anything wrong with Radfield endorsing Arctocod in his very own campaign post. Radfield knows that it will be a lot easier for town to win if both of them are elected and both of them are town so this make perfect sense to me, if Arctocod turns out not to be town then no real harm done. What I think is a bit weird is that nobody is endorsing ProfessorBadass since Curu is also pretty good at this game from what I've gathered. Wouldn't you agree with all this GreYMisT?

On December 13 2011 05:00 GiygaS wrote:
I have already stated that I would want an exception to the no pardon rule (before anyone else actually, I stated that the pardoner rule should only be used in aforementioned exceptions). I'm just thinking of a hypothetical situations that we suddenly get a really strong scum-read on somebody, and the majority of people in the thread want to lynch this new guy, but there are a lot of inactives who can't switch their vote because they are afk. Basically, we want to regulate these kind of exceptions so that we don't have no direction when these sitautions arise. This is what I want:

When the Pardoner should Pardon:
In a period of time of 30 minutes to 3 hours before the lynch, a pardoner can commence an unofficial voting session . All those active int he thread at this time will HAVE to vote either Yes or No to pardon the person in quesiton.

This keeps the pardoner power in the hands of the town, and keeps things by and large under control. If anyone has any doubts ont his subject, bring them up, and we may want to change some of the restrictions on this. If there's a stituation that this rule did not think of, I would really feel bad

On the subject of rules for elected officials: I believe mayoral candidates should declare who their hidden vote is for. The benefits simply outweigh the negatives. Sure, the mafia gets a better idea of the voting situation, but it gives the mayor far more transparency, and gives us ability to monitor and regulate these powerful roles.

On the subject of campaigns, I'm going to be voting for Radfield/Arctocod.and more specifically Arctocod. I feel he's being more transparent than Radfield, and has been raising some good points with good logic. I feel like Radfield has kind of said canned start of game sort of stuff so far, so i don't have any reason to think he's mafia, but I'm not convinced he's totally town either. Again, I'm leaning more int eh way that he's town because he brought up another very good palyer so quickly, who I would believe would be a threat to him if he was a mafia.

On to the subject of who I want to vote:
I'll be be putting my tentative lynch vote on Zeks. This will turn in to a real vote if I come back in 3 hours and no new info has really been unveilied/no info that's an easy analysis for a lynch. The points against him have been pointed out by Deus-Ex, he wanted to vote a hydra off for really no reason, other than what I can see that he's threatened by them (a mafia would be threatened!) He also dissappeared for a while, and when he returned, he just quickly answered a quesiton, and didn't either reference or defend his accusations.

On December 13 2011 05:14 GiygaS wrote:
My only problem with that is: a lot of the time, the majority IS offline in the time period given. This with the fact that a pardoner doesn't actually nullify all votes that day making there be a no lynch, it's on one specific person, making the next highest person get lynched. Right? There would be no WIFOM because it would be a mojority decision, especially if there WAS a good reason that had been brought up, which was the hypothetical situation I brought up. This situation is going to come by VERY rarely, but we need to be prepared if something like this does happen, we can't just be: "Oh yeah, that now (mostly) confirmed blue got lynched becuase we initially thought he was mafia, then some info got brought up, but our pardoner was scared to use his power cause of some stupid policy. Oh well *shrug*"

On December 12 2011 15:40 Jitsu wrote:


I agree with this. Radfield tied himself quickly to another player. I have no scumread on him right now (nothing he has done really screams "mafia" to me) but I think we should hold on voting and bandwagoning this early, regardless. How would it look if Arcotocod flipped mafia after Radfield tied himself too him?

Again, not claiming I have scum-vision. Just making a point that "itchy-trigger-finger" voting might be a bad thing.

On December 13 2011 01:09 Jitsu wrote:


Sure. Hopefully we can clear this up quickly.

In my opinion, lying does nothing to benefit the town, save rare circumstances in which a blue town role needs to keep their identity hidden. If we can bring issues to the fore-front with honesty and integrity, we would be able to root scum out quicker than if everyone was throwing off-hand lies. I can understand you're feeling on the case-by-case basis; I think it's pretty self-evident that most things in mafia need to be treated on a case-by-case basis; In this way, Policy is a bad word to use since it shows an unwavering thought process regardless of potential outcomes.

Seeing as how we are almost down a day already, and I agree with your statement about giving the mafia a way to tie up valuable time spent discussing this topic, I thought it better to drop the whole thing and defer to you're rational as a vet, and let sleeping dogs lie, as it were.

The whole point of bringing policy questions up in the first place was to try to get discussion to try to start some analysis. Maybe it's not a stereotypical move by players on the first night - we can chalk that up to my inexperience if you want, I think it was just my personal way of getting discussion started.

Does that clear things up a bit, Radfield?

On December 13 2011 09:09 Eiii wrote:
I'm going to be voting Radfield for mayor/pardoner. He would be good to have in either role, and now that he's posted some more I'm pretty confident that he's legit. If anyone hasn't looked at the election voting thread yet, it's literally all rad/arc, so it looks like our candidates are decided unless anyone has some major objections.

I'm not going to lie, I generally don't really have any clue what's going on day 1, and this game is no exception. I like prpl and Deus' posting. People have called out zeks a few times, and if you filter his posts it's clearly not without reason-- he went from not wanting a rad/arc office to, twelve hours later, voting for both of them. When questioned about it, he sidesteps the issue entirely. Trying to lay low like that after silently making such a big swing in his stance isn't something I'm comfortable seeing, so I'm throwing my lynch vote on him now. I want to see this guy under more pressure!

On December 13 2011 10:47 nyczbrandon wrote:
Whose everyone going to vote for lynch? times gonna be up in about an hour

On December 13 2011 12:18 MrZentor wrote:


We should lynch some lurkers to keep them active, but I don't think that will get us any mafia, because the mafia will end up shifting the vote to a non mafia lurker. I am just saying that given the current information, it would be best to lynch him. This could easily change with any new information or posts.

On December 13 2011 12:39 Nisani201 wrote:
We could also lynch a lurker (such as TotallyNotTwoPeople). Again, I want more information.

On December 13 2011 12:00 MrZentor wrote:
Hola! After reading this, I decided to post again.



Because apparently one post isn't enough, here's my second one. :p

Anyways, I think we should lynch zeks. He wants to kill the hydra, because it will be "dangerous for the town", but having the hydra only helps town. He is either extremely stupid or he is mafia. Either way, it's best to kill him.

I already stated my view on who should be elected and voted for said person.

On December 13 2011 13:26 Eiii wrote:


he says as he hops on my easy bandwagon

On December 13 2011 15:43 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:


you misunderstood him. he wants to lynch zeks.
this post looks of zentor looks better than his previous one.
i think this sounds more like his own thoughts... and if these are his own thoughts, i am willing to believe that the zeks vote might have been his own idea... but i need to talk to you zentor

On December 14 2011 02:09 Comprissent wrote:


From what i've gathered from vets/reading other games, lynching a lurker is a guaranteed town hit, which I don't want.
Yes, I would like more analysis to go on. What i said was greymist is the only one to use logic in his analysis, that being said you're the only one with any analysis on (at the point of that post). I don't think you've been scummy, I am just trying to put my vote somewhere early to help move discussion.

I should also pay attention to the accusers in these scenarios, and others have agreed that MrZentor's analyses have made no sense and he does not seem to follow what is going on in this thread. He hasn't posted in several pages, so I want to see more from him.

On December 14 2011 03:59 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
So, as to avoid the same mistake I made with prplhz... would you guys check what I'm been reading up on about risk.nuke.

His posts don't make much sense hes just wildly accusing whoever for no reason. He started off calling FoS on Deus-Ex and then drops it randomly and accuses Gylgas, TotallyNot2ppl, Arcto and a few others. A lot of just confusing things added in by him. I'm NOT saying hes mafia, just that I think his posts also show very little logic. And I'm simply pointing them out to the rest of you guys. Thoughts anyone ?

On December 14 2011 10:06 risk.nuke wrote:

Since graymist is voting for him I sure as hell don't want him to be pardoner.
Vote me for pardoner if you belive I'm town. Then atleast you'll know the role is not in scum hands.

On December 14 2011 10:08 risk.nuke wrote:

I think you are scum.

On December 14 2011 10:09 Spaackle wrote:
@MrZentor risk.nuke has been playing pretty aggressively. He's been trying to force discussion on a lot of candidates for the lynch, and ended up tunnelling a bit on Gigyas and GreYMisT, but hasn't made any irrational vote switches. He's not really giving me that much of a town read, but his play isn't raising a red flag either.

Read:null

On December 14 2011 10:12 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
EBWOP Ninja'ed by ProfBA...., point still applies to Deus-ex if either of them is awake? And I actually forgot TNTP as well. What are your thoughts? Are you still going to let your friend decide for tonight? And do you want to be pardoner?

Also, as I don't know who is really experienced. Are there any other top level players that think they'll die tonight?

On December 14 2011 10:14 prplhz wrote:
People need to stop voting for people based on day1 reads, we are currently not agreeing on a lynch because no one is obviously scummy, because day1 reads are often very unreliable. We are voting the best player and anybody who is voting for somebody because "he's town" or not voting for somebody because "he's scum" is crazy.

Even though Radfield wanted to lynch him, he never provided a case for why he was scummy so I'm going to vote ProfessorBadass for pardoner.

On December 14 2011 10:24 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
yeah, i see the arcto ability.

okay. who did radfield want lynched and who did arcto want lynched?

On December 14 2011 10:28 zeks wrote:


How is it not the same for prof - Erandorr isn't even playing

On December 14 2011 10:32 prplhz wrote:
HEY GUYS MRZENTOR IS VERY LIKELY NOT SCUM STOP VOTING FOR HIM

Both Radfield and Arctocod says that the lynch is bad and you should listen to those because they're likely the best townies here and they're agreeing. Look at the people on MrZentor right now: Eiii, GreYMisT, Cwave, MarserBlood, TotallyNotTwoPeople, Spaackle, Comprissent. This list isn't very impressive, Eiii got onto the lynch ages ago and GreYMisT, well I have no idea why he's on there really. This guy is very likely to flip town and you should all switch away from him right now.

On December 14 2011 10:08 risk.nuke wrote:

I think you are scum.

On December 14 2011 10:44 GiygaS wrote:
Look at his filter and say Zentor looks scummier.

On December 14 2011 10:50 GiygaS wrote:
Look at his(Nisani's) and say MrZentor looks scummier than him.

That is what I meant.

On December 13 2011 12:37 Nisani201 wrote:
Zeks is a null-read for me. Yeah the scumslips are pretty stupid but in my experiences I've found that these easy D1 lynches don't go too well.

If there are no other candidates besides him then I will definitely vote him. Otherwise I will wait for more.

On December 13 2011 14:11 Nisani201 wrote:
I just read Greymist's analysis on Jistu and I think he is much more viable lynch then Zeks.

Eiii, why are you voting MyZentor? You provided no reason other than a quote.

Somewhat off topic: after playing in XLVII, this is much more relaxing... so much better not having 100 players or whatever it was that game.

On December 14 2011 11:03 zeks wrote:


AFAIK only you and ProfessorBA have stepped up since the (kidnapping) of Arc

Scum used ability on Arc for:
1. Silence
2. The fact that he now has no protection for night kill since he wont have a body guard
3. Now it frees up an election spot for scum to take. As we can see for the voting picture after Arc got taken out it was practically a reset. I believe that if you are scum they'd clearly won't throw you out for their candidate as you have developed no credibility at all - which is the exact reason why I am really uneasy about ProfessorBA's uprising all of a sudden.

Of course there is the possibility that scum team is terribly weak this game and can't afford to have both Rad/Arc in office so they just got desperate and outed one

Now I have no idea how much credibility you have curu as I've never played with you. However you have satisfactorily answered my questions for now so I will give you the benefit of the doubt for now. I will hold my vote on Radfield.

On December 14 2011 11:05 Radfield wrote:
If you are making a post without discussing a lynch candidate. Stop. We need to discuss our lynch.

On December 14 2011 11:06 zeks wrote:


I believe its a safe assumption. If Arc talks before lynch/voting finishes then you can say 'I told you so'

On December 14 2011 11:13 zeks wrote:


I hope to hear more discussion within the next short while and I will place my vote on one of the top 2 leading vote getters and justify with reasoning in 15 mins. I will then not change my vote after that.

On December 14 2011 11:19 Radfield wrote:
Sheth, don't vote for MrZentor whatever you do. It's a complete waste. He has basically claimed blue in the thread, which means there is a decent chance mafia will shoot him and do the job for us.

On December 14 2011 05:07 MrZentor wrote:

Yeah, killing me would be a bad idea.

Well, I just wanted to clear up the confusion, not that I'm actually good at that.

Let me just reiterate: killing me would be a bad idea.

On December 14 2011 11:32 Eiii wrote:
oh man I address sheth just as he addresses me

I think removing Eiii is an awful idea! And I don't think 201 is scummy because he straight-up hasn't done anything scummy. He hasn't contributed, sure, and he's lurked a lot-- but if he hasn't developed significantly as a player since I last played with him, that is exactly what I would expect him to do as town. We have better targets to lynch today than a lurking townie.

On December 14 2011 11:34 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Could someone link Spaaaakle's Filter? I don't know how to do a filter and using cntrl F like I've been doing won't be that quick sense were on such a time limit.

On December 14 2011 11:35 risk.nuke wrote:
As for lynching I just know greymist is scum. I've read his filter so many times I'll be able to start reciting them soon. Nobody can be said to be scum for sure but I feel ten times more strongly about grey then anyone else.

On December 14 2011 11:36 ProfessorBadass wrote:
I also think that risk's actions are consistent with the withdrawal if indeed that was scum-driven. Scum most likely did it to deny Arctocod the protection and risk is trying his damn best to make sure that I, as another Townie target, don't get it.

On December 14 2011 10:08 risk.nuke wrote:

I think you are scum.

On December 14 2011 11:51 risk.nuke wrote:
How about we go with greymist based on the fact that even thoguh his name have come up multiple times not a single one supports the idea to the slightest. If we assume mafia won't influence to get one of their scumbuddies lynched that makes him an as good as and better candidate then anyone else. And if I'm wrong all my towncred is gone and you can try to lynch me tomorrow.

On December 14 2011 12:00 risk.nuke wrote:

It's much harder then it looks to make a strong case day 1. The example that was brought up before. I suspected Toad and Ciryandor to be scum. My gut told me Ciryandor (who was scum) but I could build a good case on Toad who then turned up to be town. Altough in my defense he kept playing scummy and half the observer QT was convinced he was scum.

On December 14 2011 12:08 Refallen wrote:


Sorry, really didn't have time to do anything than a quick skim or two of the thread and I just decided to bandwagon him. I understand that this seems like a scummy thing to do but honestly with everyone pushing for a lynch I thought that getting on the bandwagon would be the most beneficial for town (see TL Mafia XLVIII for when no-lynches happen and screws town up lolol)

On December 14 2011 12:31 Radfield wrote:


Yep, that seems to be my style these days

Day 1 is not my strong suit, but I can guarantee I will do better Day 2 I have plenty of time over the next few days.

If I was scum, I would doublestack Arctocod tonight. I highly recommend all medics cover them, it leaves mafia free to snipe other players, but I think that is an OK trade-off.

There is a chance that Arctocod removed themselves in order to buy town credit. I find this highly unlikely:

1. If Arctocod was scum, they would have removed me from office, as I am far more likely to find them out than any other player.

2. That would be a substantial waste of a very important role. We don't know what elections will be in the future, and some may be very beneficial for mafia to get. Using it now to buy a little town cred is a waste.

3. Mafia wants the elected roles filled with mafia. If they used the ability on themselves it simply allows a chance for a different townie to get elected.

On December 14 2011 19:19 Cwave wrote:


Also one of the reason MrZentor lives at the expense of Spaackle. That's all you needed for last minute switching to Spaackle, Greymist?

On December 15 2011 03:58 Radfield wrote:



I guess the disconnect here is that I haven't ever been in a game with dropbear where he has played well. OK yes, but not well. I would put him almost in the exact same boat as greymist, though it's possible dropbear has played well in games I have not seen.

As far as my actions last night, I wanted to get the election talk out of the way and move onto the lynch. Ideal scenario for mafia is Arctocod withdraws, and we spend the rest of the time bickering about who gets elected. Curu can play a strong game of mafia, and is a likely hit if he is town. If not him I would have chosen prplhz. I think you are far less likely to die tonight then you think you are.

What specifically points you towards scum on greymist. I see him as pretty likely town right now.

On December 15 2011 07:58 risk.nuke wrote:

You do realise that YOU are nisani...

On December 15 2011 11:16 bumatlarge wrote:
Ok... so assumng this is a shot shot deal, they used it to prevent a mayor pick (who didn't seem to have the lead) as opposed to a lynchproof pick? That seems like an easy end game for mafia, seems rather stupid unless it was done by town. I could understand a town person doing that rather then making someone lynch proof. I'd claim that if I were you.

Unless I read the rules wrong :X

On December 15 2011 14:02 bumatlarge wrote:


Hmm ok, but I think we should be a bit aggressive with the second voting spot. It's a public rolecop check, so let's use it as such. It seems better to have someone we can deduce as mafia and not be able to lyncht the next day, rather then out a townie to prevent something that would never happen anyway. One of the two as surgeon general sounds superduper.

On December 16 2011 00:39 Arctocod wrote:

What are you talking about? Where did everyone get the idea that Secretary of Defense's role will be announced in public? All it says is that no one will know what the position does until elections are over, and even then only the person elected into that position will be told about it.



Giygas should be the Surgeon General

On December 16 2011 02:53 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:
Relevant part of post from earlier: + Show Spoiler +
Arctocod, I'm assuming at least one of your halves has played with Greymist when he was town before, does he normally play like this as town? In steamship, as scum, he was on the top two vote getters day 1 and day 2, here he already managed to get a vote in on every one of the top 3 vote getters on day 1. Also, as I'm sure most people are aware, some people are just easier to get lynched than others due to the way they play. Scum obviously love to push for lynches that they think will be easiest to pull off. Two of the people getting votes yesterday were Nisani and MrZentor.
This is a quote from Greymist. From Steamship. Scum preying on the same players as he did in a previous game? Seems quite plausible to me.

On December 16 2011 06:09 Arctocod wrote:
His play seems very strange if he is scum. He is attracting a lot of attention, posting quite a bit and being aggressive. His latest post about changing his style also feels genuine to me. I don't see what makes him more likely scum than all the useless people we've around. While he isn't one of my strongest town reads, I don't think he is a good target.

On December 16 2011 08:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
Although it occurs to me that whatever you find will likely be argued to be useless as he's claimed in-thread that he's "changing his playstyle up" this game, essentially rendering any meta research done pretty null.

But I'm totally interested in what you find mang, this was literally next on my to-do list.

On December 16 2011 08:18 Radfield wrote:
Greymist, assuming risk.nuke was unlynchable today, who would you be voting for.

Even if you don't have specifics, who are your top 3 scummy players right now?

On December 15 2011 13:07 evantrees wrote:
true, sorry I will keep from speculating on upcoming offices, though this post probably contains too much speculating anyways.


pretty sure it means can protect for two nights then runs out.


I feel like maybe we shouldn't bother let it hopefully be more of a surprise for the mafia. they've surprised us enough as it is, but then having some suggestion as what to do with it wouldn't hurt whoever gets elected to that position would it?
leaning towards the first one myself.

so assuming radfield is to be believed about being roleblocked.
the mafia has
attorney used
a roleblocker
and 3 unknowns possibly one a vanilla goon. I really doubt more than 1 vanilla goon given the election.
Given zero vanilla townies have flipped I'm doubting there are too many vanilla people, and don't damn well claim it if you are no point potentially painting bigger targets on other people.

On December 15 2011 13:48 evantrees wrote:
kind of doubt either list will be particularly helpful.
given most of the ProfBA list is dead or GiygaS.
ProfessorBadass (7): GreYMisT, xsksc, prplhz, GiygaS, -GiygaS, GiygaS, Eiii, Refallen, Radfield
xsksc, prplh, Eiii dead
that leaves
ProfessorBadass (3): GreYMisT, Refallen, Radfield

can't say I would be surprised if one of them was scum but have don't have any arguments for people being scum period yet and the Radfield list is a good bit longer.

Radfield (12): risk.nuke, zeks, Jitsu, Spaackle, Comprissent, Eiii, Nisani201, MarserBlood, cascades, DropBear, Cwave, Liquid`Sheth, ProfessorBadass, DEUS-ex-MAFIA, -Eiii
Spaackle, lynched

Radfield (11): risk.nuke, zeks, Jitsu, Comprissent, Nisani201, MarserBlood, cascades, DropBear, Cwave, Liquid`Sheth, ProfessorBadass, DEUS-ex-MAFIA,

and the others.
DEUS-ex-MAFIA (1): TotallyNotTwoPeople
TotallyNotTwoPeople (1): evantrees
prplhz (1): Arctocod
Arctocod (2); MrZentor ,nyczbrandon (the annoying one to get)

On December 12 2011 16:31 cascades wrote:
I must be missing something. A lot of people like Sheth are saying Radfield is protown, but he only has one post as of now, and I don't see it. His post just states information any non first time players should know. In fact, he straightforwardly suggests Arc without caring about his alignment.

Anyhow, my analysis of his post indicates that it is a post both townie Radfield AND mafia Radfield would make. I would like to warn people not to jump to conclusions like that. They may be strong players, but that indicates nothing about their alignment.

My take on the election issue would be to elect the strong players for day 1. Arc has a more than barebones campaign and also more posts than the rest of the vets who have stepped forward, so the rest need to step it up.

On December 14 2011 13:50 cascades wrote:
I would like to clear things up:
While I noted down evantree and nyczbrandon being lurkerish earler in the day, we should definteily be trying for scum instead of lurkers day 1. Nothing about them convinces me that one lurker is more scummier than another. As such, I held off on placing my vote. I had believed/hoped I would be able to wake up in time to make a vote closer to the deadline. Unfortunately, Timezones are not very friendly to me.

Well, it turns out I failed. I didn't have enough enough time to read the thread and make a definite conclusion. Hence, I forgot about the time and made a late vote just after the voting deadline closes. In the future, I will place a vote on someone to avoid a repeat of this situation.

Some people were questioing about my late vote on spaackle. I was on the fence about spaackle. I had seen Radfield and ProfBadass push against him. I know he made a "slip". However, nothing else stood out as scummy enough. Sure, people pointed out holes in his analysis. Still, I felt his posts on the election was good. None of this RNG bullshit. After Arc withdrew/removed from the election, we should be trying to get a vet in. People were muddling the waters and arguing otherwise.It's almost like the previous day posts on why the mayor/pardoner roles are important was completely forgotten. They are useful for the night protection vs mafia. Speculating that mafia removed for whatever reason, that's WIFOM. Maybe mafia wanted suspicion to fall on all the other vets. Maybe mafia was hoping to get one of their own in office. Maybe mafia was just trying to cause chaos. Who knows? The only thing we can tell is mafia did not want Arc to be in office if the assumption mafia did it was correct.

Now spaackle has turned up innocent, and a blue too. If I was to redo my lynch, would I lynch spaackle again? The answer is yes. Though I was uncertain, he was the best option at that time, better than MrZentor. For the information of those who were not there near voting deadline, the two leading votegetters were MrZentor and spaackle. MrZentor had "softclaimed" blue so to speak. That left us spaackle. We had to vote and lynch for information. Certainly, we took an "easy lynch" so to speak, but the risk was worth it if we managed to catch a scum. Though we failed, it is expected as day 1 mafia lynches are rare apparently.

On December 16 2011 08:54 Radfield wrote:



Sounds good. I have all night





I'm not going to give you my top 3, or even my top 1 just yet. But I will say this, I think Cwave looks like scum on first glance. I probably won't go balls to the wall on lynching him just yet, but I am interested in what others think of his posting so far.

On December 16 2011 09:16 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
@greymist
What about nyczbrandon makes him seem like scum to you rather than newbie-town? Do you think scum would be letting one of their members say things like:

If you believe he is scum, I presume you also believe he was told to play the newbie card rather hard?

On December 16 2011 09:16 Radfield wrote:


hahaha

...
...
...


...anyhoo... what do you think of zeks Greymist?

On December 16 2011 10:30 evantrees wrote:
TotallyNotTwoPeople+ Show Spoiler +

Too much discussion on why we wanted to protect the hydras day 1 went along with it I suppose. Sort of had to change my vote off Arctocod so wanted to put it somewhere, bit skeptical for ProfBA for some reason. Never got around to changing it with the freaking out over the lynch Also have definitely done some of what you accused greymist of, and oh he pointed it out for me nice.

GreYMisT
trying and failing to be helpful it seems. Evantress while it kind of makes more sense is not my name. Really not sure how to try and defend myself from such accusation. I have been mostly replying to stuff and pointing out things. Hopefully letting the able scum hunters can focus more on that instead. Am I just wasting time?

More of what people have complained about but don't like seeing random incorrect facts. Though in this case hopefully unimportant given our Attorney is dead and theirs used his ability.
Jitsu
Kita posted a correction the District Attorney had to act before the two hour mark, and arc was withdrawn about 2 hours 15 min before the Lynch/Election.+ Show Spoiler +

On December 16 2011 10:37 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:

Can you quote that suspicion on me from before I was making a case on greymist? Also, are you saying that him being the only person to vote for all 3 of the bandwagon lynches, as well as constantly fishing around for anyone that other people will agree on doesn't seem somewhat scummy? Look at his lynch choices so far, mostly a bunch of largely useless lurkers that nobody would blame him for if they are mislynches.

On December 16 2011 10:20 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
hmm interesting. I have one more question:
Do you think the nightshots of the scumteam were optimal, if not, who would you have been shot?

On December 16 2011 10:53 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
why not. Who would you have been shot? And who do you want to lynch?

On December 15 2011 11:47 risk.nuke wrote:

this is a closed setup, nobody said anything about 3 kp.

On December 16 2011 11:31 nyczbrandon wrote:


you mean the 4 targets that Radfield told me to look at?

On December 16 2011 11:35 nyczbrandon wrote:


I don't get what you want. I'm just listening to what Radfield is telling me to do and try to be less lurkerish. Now it seems like its better if I just remained a lurker.

On December 17 2011 03:05 Arctocod wrote:
The analysis won't be wasted just because we lynch Curu today. I think you make some good points, but the problem with the players I gave you to analyze is that we don't know them at all, while we know Curu quite well and know what we can expect from him. By the way I fully admit the lack of real answer above is due to me being exceedingly lazy and unwilling to put any effort into a more detailed re-assessment of those players. Right now we consider Curu a very very likely scum and once Palmar is around we will present a real case. Probably.

On December 17 2011 03:25 risk.nuke wrote:
I was going to do the analysises requested of me last night now but more interesting stuff is going on so they will have to wait.

The more interesting stuff:
I've had a bad feeling about the professor ever since Arctocod got withdrawn and he was elected. If we keep assuming it was a scum abillity they probably have a limited number of uses, I guess 1 max 2. They wouldn't had wasted this abillity which means they have an agenda. The professor was the one who got elected instead, there wasn't any question about that he would be elected. The only logical reasoning is the mafia knew this. Which leaves us here. Either the mafia elected the professor because the professor is scum. Or they elected the professor to make us come to the conclusion that he is scum. These are the only two logical reasoning. Personally I think the first one is the likeliest but that isn't the only reason. If the professor is scum he can hurt town. He knows he is heavily suspiscious and if we don't lynch him today we will likely lynch him soon unless he starts busing. If we choose to lynch someone else and by luck hits a mafia. The professor can pardon him giving them an extra night.

I approve with lynching The Professor today.
Still want greymist dead.

On December 17 2011 03:54 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
Risk and Grey my dear friends. You vote Prof. Badass right now please.

Furthermore I want your opinion on Zeks and totallynottwopeople.

On December 17 2011 04:57 GiygaS wrote:
I'm going to analyse the dead player's filters.

prplhz's Filter
+ Show Spoiler +

xksc's filter
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 17 2011 05:18 Comprissent wrote:


So you would argue the hits were completely random?
And we should just ignore trying to explain any of the motivation for these kills?

I find it hard to believe scum would just pick targets at random. There has to be some reasoning behind their hits

On December 17 2011 05:19 Curu wrote:
I'm not crumbling I just don't want to put forth the effort required. How do you want me to defend myself? The case is literally "Curu bandwagoned switched to Spaackle cause he sheeped Radfield!" which is completely untrue as I started the Spaackle lynch and convinced Radfield and "Erandorr is not posting!" which I can't do anything about.

Kita so sloooooooooow. Put me out of my misery!

On December 17 2011 05:29 Comprissent wrote:


At the least it narrows a suspect list considerably. We can at least keep this in mind and reevaluate the suspects and their later actions

On December 17 2011 05:37 Arctocod wrote:
It appears he silenced himself, which equals scum claiming so vote for him please

On December 17 2011 11:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
Because he's pissed off at being lynched for no reason? Remember, I'm the cry-baby king over here, I can TOTALLY see a townie getting all snot-faced about being lynched from 1 word from Palmar. *shrug*

On December 17 2011 11:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Grey, what do you say to the accusation that you're guilty of changing your opinion of someone based entirely on town's sentiment?

On December 18 2011 01:04 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
hmm after filterin almost everyone individually, I made a scumranklist including scummyness of every player in this game. I'd like to discuss that list especially with radfield, Palmar and Syllo.
Do you think it's better to post that list now or better at the end of the night.
I think I got some correct and well reasoned townreads on several players... Maybe that would make them to scumtargets...
Although the advantage to discuss that list today is that we lay down more pressure on the people who I don't have a townread on and we have more time... So what do you think...

Moreover I know that you, Palmar and Syllo, already have such a list aswell. However I think we have some differences.
If we exchange our opinions, I guess we could nail down most of the scumteam...

On December 18 2011 15:35 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:
Hmm, looks like I am triple posting. I guess nobody else is on right now :-(

@greymist
Interesting theory regarding evantrees, but the main issue I am having with evantrees being scum, is that upon reviewing his filter, the only person he tended to consistently call out as being suspicious of/slightly scummy, was ProfessorBadass.


Do you think this is just more soft-bussing to give some more town cred to the other if one was lynched, or genuine suspicion?

On December 18 2011 23:56 Arctocod wrote:
haven't read him.

I just noticed even back on day 1 greymist seemed... I don't know, passive, disinterested, distant etc.

On December 19 2011 02:22 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
i had refallen on my townlist.
greymist is 95% scum.

will get back to this later and advice annul to post my list 1min before the night ends.

On December 19 2011 15:03 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
no vigilante on greymist? that's so sad. We got to lynch him, then.
Do we have the doublelynch today? I'd say its good to activate it now.

On December 19 2011 15:17 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=62163

Theres my filter, can you read it?

On December 19 2011 19:19 Refallen wrote:


Hardly a point, and you're not exactly helping your case by saying how two very good players think you're scum (one confirmed town, too).




Also, this did not make sense at all. The most definite clear choices for the Secretary of Defense and Surgeon were definitely Arc and Giygas, bar none. Your premise of how putting in Zentor would protect other blues is ridiculous. How would that work? Lastly, I for one thought that Zentor's claimed ability was very very believable.

Also, evantrees you need to stop nitpicking on minor issues like vote formatting. Lastly, we really shouldn't be discussing modkills here. What's the point of that?

For now, I'm leaning towards lynching Greymist.

On December 20 2011 03:11 zeks wrote:
No Radfield is getting watched no matter what

Case 1: Radfield is roleblocked
Watcher finds the roleblocker

Case 2: Radfield is not roleblocked
Radfield can medic someone

Case 3: Radfield is scum (however unlikely)
We will know from the watch

Case 4: Radfield is hit
Watcher will know who hit him

The watcher is the key to keeping Radfield tonight

On December 16 2011 11:26 GreYMisT wrote:
Alright read through Risk's filter again, I have decided to take my vote off of him as my read on him has been reduced to near null.

In addition to what has been said that he "is attracting too much attention to play scum effectivly" i have found a few other things he has done that scum would not do.




He posts this and then is told right after that the info is in the OP. if he was scum I would find it highly unlikely that that he would not know the way that kp was calculated is publicly availible.

In addition, the way he continuously kept saying that I am scum actually leads me to think he is town, now that i think about it. What would be the purpose of this as scum? to try to start an easy bandwagon against me. however it was obviously not working, as both I and others kept questioning his reasoning. To me a scum player would have stopped after he realized it wasnt working. Risk instead kept pursuing me, and continuously made his opinion known.

I still dont agee with the way he has gone about scumhunting this game, but after rereading i am not as sure as i was on him being scum.

Instead, I would encourage you to read nyczbrandon's filter. Notice the ways in which he says something while really saying nothing, how he hasnt contributed until he was called out for it, and even then didnt really say much or give a stance on anything. He just gave us 4 targets we were already all aware of, and brought nothing new to the table. My vote goes on nyczbrandon for now.

On December 20 2011 04:44 Radfield wrote:
That was 5 hours AFTER the post that I quoted, which is where the flip-flop occurred and where you were "not completely sold on the risk being town".

In that time both me and Arctocod had made it clear we felt risk.nuke was a poor lynch.

Who do you think is likely scum? Still the three you previously posted about?

On December 20 2011 04:49 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:

And I obviously believe Greymist to be scum as well.

So, Greymist, I look forward to hearing reasons why all of us are wrong if you have them.

On December 20 2011 04:52 Radfield wrote:
Also, read that post you just quoted:

First you state your read has been reduced to near null. But then you go on to mention a number of points in favor of him being town. Reading that makes it seem like you conclusion is he is town.

However you finish with this line:



Your point on him being scummy is that you "don't agree" with how he has been scumhunting. Not that he has acted scummy. That is your only point you make against him, and it is the excuse you give for not having a town read. I don't agree with the way many people scum-hunt, but that has NO BEARING on my read of them.

That whole post reads like you think risk.nuke is town, yet don't want to come out and say it. Your only excuse for not having a town read is you "don't agree" with his scumhunting. That is scummy.

On December 20 2011 05:10 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:


?

On December 20 2011 05:14 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:

The point was largely for emphasis, and partially because you were claiming the case on you was weak and was just gut feelings and meta. So, a question for you, if syllogism, palmar, radfield, and supersoft all thought someone was scum, and palmar/syllogism were confirmed town, radfield very likely town, and supersoft you were leaning town on as well, what odds would you give on the person they were all accusing actually being scum? In general of course.

On December 20 2011 05:57 Radfield wrote:


Additionally, would having my vote on you make my case any stronger? Does my case lose credibility because I haven't put my vote down?

Are you really so exasperated that this is what your defense boils down to?

On December 20 2011 07:13 MrZentor wrote:


Good question! I don't really have a case against you, everybody else does, and I agree with them. Well, currently Grey looks a lot more scummier than you do, and lynching Grey will give clues on whether you are mafia or not, so it would be much better to lynch him first! If you need specifics, prompt me, and I will be glad to spend a lot more of my time engaging in conversation about why it's much better to lynch you than Grey!

On December 20 2011 07:26 risk.nuke wrote:
Greymist

Beeing in favor of electing the professor+ Show Spoiler +
He tries to make a case on Jitsu but for some reason he doesn't ask professor whom he belives is town and should be a good scumhunter for thoughts, he only asks random townies. (That is weird) No, really. Townies ask who they belive are their strongest townreads for thoughts, scum asks random townies to gain towncred with the illusion that they are discussing.

He votes for MrZentor who I am sure is town because of his abillity.


He tries to discredit me with some weak metagame analysis.

he is comfortable with lynching nisani (ViceraEyes)



When he says he is changing his mind about me he first calls me null-read and then he says he thinks I am town.
This entire post is an attempt to appease me. Greymist says this, to try and win me over. Since Townie A who gets called a townie gets less suspicious of Person B who said he says he thinks Townie A is town. The part involving me is just some weird singled out points to disguise the real purpose of the post. The point of this post was to discreetly call me town so I would stop tunneling him. You might say that he would do that even if he was town because nobody wants to be tunneled but no, this only makes sense if he KNOWS I am town. Because if I were scum when this post got put put under the magnifying glass those weak points could get him lynched ergo you don't do this unless you KNOW.

He is reluctant to lynch the professor
Here we're at it again, he keeps beliving the professor is town but his posts doesn't show any real strenght behind his belifes, they are just there when it's voting time.

Conclusion: Mafia

On December 20 2011 08:15 risk.nuke wrote:
"Arcto I understand your suspicions of curu, but do you really feel confident in lynching him based on the little you provided? Why him and not some of the other candidates we have presented?" - greymist

"How can you expect us to agree to lynch curu when you openly admit to being lazy and not putting effort info other cases, and then saying you will only "Probally" give your reasoning. Just because you are very likely town does not excuse you."
- greymist

"I am holding off on voting prof. badass until arctocod can give their reasoning. Weren't you the one a few pages back who said we need to not follow you guys blindly?" - greymist

On December 20 2011 08:17 zeks wrote:
sheth always has to make it hard to not vote for him every single cycle rofl

On December 16 2011 11:56 nyczbrandon wrote:


okay sure

On December 20 2011 08:55 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
the profbadasslynch was based on several things.

- first of all, the setup is somehow balanced. That means that there are good players in the scumteam and good players in the town. Curu, radfield, palmogism, prplhz and I are too much. (meh)

- erandorrs afkness. He normally scumhunts at least when called out. (meh)

- the withdraw of Palmogism and his sudden appearance when everyone else was asleep.

- His overall behaviour. He wasn't working with us. There was no connection between the town and him. He treated us like enemys. The whole time. He played against Palmar and Syllo and you felt that. Curus townmeta is completely different. He's arrogant and hates scum aswell as Palmar. This game he just didn't care about scum. He just played along. Easylynch day1 etc. etc. etc.

- His mayoral campaign: It was a joke. Towncuru would have fought for that position, because he knows about the setupbalancing.

So many things. That case was 100% even before he did that stupid anonymus message thing lol.
(a role he had in his lotr-mafia aswell for scum :D)

_________________


@Greymist: Can you guess who the three last reamaining scumteammembers are?

On December 20 2011 09:04 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:


I want to see the game where erandorr was troubling for scum.

I want to see the game where curu was troubling for scum.

_________________

baseless assumption. You can do it better ;-)

On December 20 2011 09:04 risk.nuke wrote:
Who stopped MrZentor and Nisani bandwagons. Who saw through the scum plans and called out Curu when palmar withdrew. I've read this game better then anyone else, I should be Prankster. Period.

On December 20 2011 09:16 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:

If he flips town? I don't think that would be particularly implicating of anyone. If he flips red Sheth will look really bad having defended both the professor and greymist. As for who to go after next, I am not decided on that yet. I would really like to hear more from any of those in the sub-3-pages of filter club. And by hear more I mean hear their top scum reads with explanations.


Let's not worry about potential scum that hasn't posted in the thread for the past 4 days, mmk? I'm sure he is well on his way to being modkilled or replaced. If he is replaced and not mod-killed, we can deal with it then, sound good?
His last post in the thread: nyczbrandon United States. December 16 2011 11:56. Posts 108

On December 20 2011 09:14 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:
i got to sleep now. I want you to read your own filter... after that, you decide for yourself if your scumplay this game was good enough to survive the day3lynch :-(

(no it wasnt)

:D

cu tomorrow

On December 20 2011 09:22 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:

Because 2 things:
1) I don't think he is scum, as I have posted about before.
2) Modkills kill people just as well as lynches, and discussing someone who can't defend himself at all (by being completely afk from the thread) doesn't really help town discussion.

On December 20 2011 09:28 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote:


wohoo. I knew i would get to read something if i look into the thread one last time :-P

can you please roleclaim? If you have a super-awesome townrole, I want to hear this role now, because 1 hour before the lynch will be too late. Right now I don't see any possibility that you survive this if not something incredible happens

On December 20 2011 10:35 Radfield wrote:
Also, lynching nyczbrandon is a terrible idea. You don't lynch lurkers on Day 3. If he is town, he needs to step it up and show that though.

I'm going to look into cascades and comprissent.

On December 20 2011 10:42 TotallyNotTwoPeople wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I will be unvoting you then I suppose. If a counter-claim comes up, we'll deal with it then. Thank you for not waiting until the last minute and leaving us scrambling for a new target/wondering if the counterclaim is actually just afk at the end of the day cycle.

If we hear no counterclaim, should we elect greymist police chief to protect him from roleblocks or kp this night? Although this idea is less good if using his medic ability would make him unable to use the watcher ability.

Does using the police chief watcher ability prevent you from using other abilities you might have?

On December 20 2011 10:53 Radfield wrote:


I'm not sure I follow, what do you mean?

On December 20 2011 11:04 Radfield wrote:



Incorrect on several counts.

1) The watcher CANNOT be roleblocked, or targeted by any action for that matter.

2) Players are told when they are roleblocked, therefore they can make that public. Then the watcher can visit the player who was roleblocked, and find out the identity of the roleblocker. Hence, mafia CANNOT roleblock today.

3) Because of this I can protect any medic who claims. But it makes far more sense to put our medic as the watcher. Then the medic is unhittable and can use his power, and I am unhittable(or a 1 for 1 trade due to the watcher) and can also protect. This is the ideal scenario.