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regading this
1st spoiler + explanation so if i post an entire quote and try to place it into context then "im being hard to read and scummy" and if i cut out parts not relevant to my point then im misrepresenting your post and being scummy? ...wow... I deliberately cut off the bit of wifom logic because it was totally fucking useless and was not relevant to the point i was making.
On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote: Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it.
your explanation for leaving your vote on eye215 makes no sense. feel free to ask your coaches if you don't believe me
sencond spoiler the above quote was in this post the above quote refered to this On December 09 2011 10:16 Grackaroni wrote: Show nested quote +
Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . .
I stated my reasons for keeping my vote on EY. Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia.
i point out that grackaroni pointed out that you left your vote on eye and admitted that you thought jay was more likely to be scum than him (this have nothing to do with wifom logic)
i then refer to a long post of yours in which you wrote "You lynch your best read." AND "Town votes to lynch mafia." showing that you have acted in one way yet vocally opposed it in the thread and et you have not acknowledged or explained this
3 spoiler you wrote
layabout posted "you have a strong case on a player but you would rather not post it and you would rather vote for someone other than your best read? seriously?" Yet I never voted for Adam and the post layabout quoted was me saying that I don't hjave a good case on Adam.
cough its bolded and underlined that you have a stronger case on eye215 cough cough its blantantly obvious that that is what i was refering too cough [QUOTE]On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote: [quote] On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote: Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte.
Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out: + Show Spoiler +
I'll check the thread again before going to bed.[/quote]
+ you said "i never said jay was my best read" now im fairly sure that the player you think is more like to bbe scum than all your other scum reads is your best scum read + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2011 22:56 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2011 22:13 layabout wrote: why are you trying to add wifom logic?
if jay was your best read which you said he was then you should have voted for him, you even said so
the fact that you didn't and the fact that you had already said that players in general should lynch their best read is highly contradictory. how does that involve wifom? I never said that Jay was my best read. I said I consider a mafia team consisting of Jay, BKE, and EY or xsk more likely than the alternative. And I already explained the WIFOM perspective to you. Show nested quote +i attack you because you were happy to be on a day1 bandwagon but on day two when their was a much stronger case for a player being mafia and when you openly stated that you that that player was probably scum and yet you decided to vote for somebody else. and one of the reasons you gave was to "avoid sheeping". yet you had already been on a andwagon. You are a liar. I wasn't happy to be on the Day 1 bandwagon and it is obvious from all the effort I put in my attempts to prevent it. And where is my motive for not voting for Jay? Seriously? If I'm mafia, what is my motive? Are you saying that I knew that someone was mafia and outright refused to vote for him in order to look more suspicious after the red flip? Did I try to save Jay by not voting? Anyone with half a brain would know that he was dead a few hours into Day 2 - and yet I decided not to switch to him for ~36 hours in order to gain absolutely nothing out of it? Show nested quote +the bit i quoted was dated for me as "On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote:" before then this is everthing you had to say on eye215: "Everything"? This isn't enough for early Day 1? I got called out for tunneling EY too much and you're acting like it was nothing. I had more on EY than other players had on all of us combined. As for the rest of your post, it's a gameplay opinion that I disagree with. But even though I think that you are wrong, I can see your point. All I have to add on the subject is that I explained my vote at the time and no one had an issue with it, so I think that the problem is in you - or you're trying to turn it into a problem because of your red alignment. + Show Spoiler +On December 09 2011 04:53 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:33 Blazinghand wrote:On December 09 2011 04:27 xtfftc wrote: Tunkeg, I consider spending time on analysing Jay inefficient now. And I can post my thoughts on why I consider some people to be town as well. Ran through your filter to fetch what we know about your stance on JB. Here's a summary of xtfftc's statements re: JB http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=36#711On December 08 2011 04:05 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote: My Original Case for JB: On December 07 2011 10:13 Blazinghand wrote: THE NEW MATERIAL: Your original case was good, your new material was herp-derp. I think I am okay with a Jay lynch for now but I have to re-read his posts first. I was planing to make an analysis of him yesterday, so he's on my to-do list for tonight with Velinath. I am not happy with those jumping on the Jay lynch though. You know my case on Adam and Velinath is someone who warrants a good long look, considering his recent posts. Posting about how he's suspicious of people jumping on the Bbyte lynch (not to mention he didn't bother pointing out what actually happened in my case) and then jumping on the Jay bandwagon just like that: On December 07 2011 11:33 Velinath wrote: First off, I was roleblocked last night.
Secondly, yes, I agree with this lynch. Scummy posts after Night 1 and the analyses posted? No question. Hassy can be saved for tomorrow.
##Vote: jaybrundage How about posting his own views before voting? He goes on to add some stuff later which sound okay but that's not enough. Calls part of my case good, part of it bad. Said he's ok with a Jay lynch, but needs to re-read his post. Says he is not happy with those who are lynching him. Hedging. A page later: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#724On December 08 2011 04:22 xtfftc wrote:On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote: It IS everyone’s fault that Bbyte ended up dead. We had 6 people follow BH’s invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly, that is their failings and as BH has pointed out since, its also the failing of everyone else that none of us had put forward a compelling enough case to keep Bbyte off the hangman’s noose. Parroting what Veli said. Yes, it is everyone's fault that we couldn't consolidate on a proper case but no, we didn't have 6 people follow BH's invoking of a lurker lynch almost blindly. Sounds like mafia trying to make us think that this wasn't as bad of a loss as it was to me. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote:On December 07 2011 10:56 jaybrundage wrote: Briefly looking over you new case its pretty shitty with no content.
Nice use of caps to make it seem like you have a point. Your "core of your argument. Is also dumb is stated multiple times i did not like the Bbyte case. I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.
Ill give people some time to read my case before i comment again. I was not expecting EB to get killed i was thinking either BH Veli maybe Grack even. I really wish he had posted his case on me instead of his empty comment that he thinks I'm mafia. Are you kidding? He’s spent hours looking at your filter and you “briefly look” at it. You might want to go back and examine the SHIT out of his case on you and start defending yourself properly. Calling his case “shit” is tantamount to saying “no u r”, it might have worked when you were 7, but its not flying here. This is a great point (Jay either scumslipped really badly or he spends more time writing his own posts than analysing others, which is pretty bad), but Adam sure likes adding fluff to his arguments. All he needed was the bolded bit, everything else is completely pointless. On December 07 2011 16:09 Adam4167 wrote: Is this a slip? “I'm not gonna let you steamroll the townies into another mislynch.”. You are part of the town… shouldn’t this read “im not going to let you steamroll us into another myslynch”, unless of course you don’t consider yourself part of the town. This is pretty bad. What is the right way to say it then? "I'm not going to let you steamroll me into mislynching myself"? I will revisit my suspicion from yesteyday when I thought that Adam might be bussing Jay. This is actually a discussion of Adam's post, but he notes that JB scumslipped, and suspects Adam may be bussing him (which is to say, Adam suspects JB of being scum) Finally, talking to ey215 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=37#729On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote: I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote: Fuck, I can't believe I'm jumping on the bandwagon but at the moment I don't see a better lynch option. ... How about making a case or pushing the discussion further with some analysis? I know I said I'm going to look at Jay and Velinath like 10 minutes ago but I can't allow ey215 to stay under the radar like this for another day. It sounds like you don't think JB is mafia. You've admitted he scumslips, you suspect Adam is bussing him, and you found my initial case on him convincing. Where do you stand? I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon. At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE)
regarding LAL and you accusing me of lying i have shown that you have lied and additionally you have not directly explained yourself, you have evaded the points i have made you have been misleading and you have posted fluff but you are instead trying to OMGUS me, your reason? that i said "you were happily on a bandwagon" well guess what, you were on a bandwagon and if you were unhappy about it or you felt that there was a better other option you should not have been on it, regardless of what you say you were on itand you did lynch a town.
+your case on eye215 is mostly day 1 stuff and the whole i made 5 posts in a short space of time...tunneling... how can you say i did have a case? - is pure nonsense the first time you put together a case was " December 08 2011 07:30." (near the bottom of page 3 of your filter.
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my take on BKEXE strenghts of the case against him: he lurked quite a bit early on, apparantly he was busy but lurking doesn't help town he has referred to the fact that he is new repeatedly, this only serves to lower our expectations of him (and perhaps ignore him( or to forgive scummy or anti-town moves because he is new and made a mistake.
a new town player should not keep calling themselves bad or new it provides an excuse for Mafia as new players you (we) should try to contribute not remind people that we might fuck up (the game is also exclusively made up of new players so being new does give you free license to be bad).
he has made a lot of mistakes with formatting and his post are very hard to read. this makes him appear to be contributing whilst actually just clogging up the thread it also reinforces that he is new and might make mistakes
"buddying with jay"
by this point you had all voted for and condemned him it is also worth noting this post
On December 11 2011 02:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: I do not have anymore time to defend myself as I need to study for finals. I urge everyone to come up with a plan when I do not turn up mafia. I say do not blame the players that created the case against me, but blame the people who used their cases and did not check for errors.
I need to develop my skills about gathering evidence in the game and was not active enough in the scum hunt. I know that the case against me was pretty solid though, as I was not good in double checking my evidence.
Well,GG BroodKingEXE this is incredibly anti town, it doesn't help in any way and a post like this is almost volunteering to be the lynch. he has had 1 vote since then
he later posted that he had the dealine wrong. /doh
Weaknesses in his case being inept is independent of alignment - he is definately new he is making mistakes
adam made a post showing how BKEXE and jaydunbridge were defending each other
[+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On December 08 2011 13:37 Adam4167 wrote:On December 08 2011 12:01 Velinath wrote: And of course RIGHT after I post that, BKEXE comes back with some decent reasoning and also steps up and votes. Guhhhhhhhhhhh I don't see what you see at all. I see BKEXE quote BH's book that he wrote on jay, ramble on about policy (a bit late in the piece for this really..), then dump his vote on jay after calling him an idiot. Oh and don't forget declaring how new he is... again. Your case on BKEXE was exactly where I was heading with the next day (assuming I survive the night.). It was well done and did a good job of highlighting exactly how BKEXE has been playing thus far, however I am going to highlight something you missed: BKEXE and jay have been defending each other this entire game: Here BKEXEHere jayHere jayHere jayHere jayBKEXE's more recent posts aimed at jay are nothing more than distancing because we have shifted focus onto them. It is just a smokescreen, do not buy into this nonsense. [/QUOTE] notice a pattern, bk was the 1st to "defend" jay and from then on jay was "defending" BKEXE we cannot know for sure and it may be that after 10 mins looking i could find the post that contradicts this BUT it is entirely possible that jay purposely created a connection between himself and BK knowing that when he flipped red the pitchforks would be hunting BK. we cannot be certain of how they act and this can be WIFOM'ed to death but it is important to remeber that jay's flip does not tell us a lot about BK's alignment.
his posts in the last 24 hours may be him trying to help or simply him trying to seem town and change the vote but i feel that lynching him is a very reasonable move because his behaviour has been plain anti-town and there is an okay chance of him flipping scum. personally i think he is bad town + Show Spoiler +I still think we should lynch xtfftc
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@BK if you look carefully BK you will see that is is a formatiing error (im ashamed that you of all people have pointed this out) but that the reference to adam was in a quote i quoted and the spoiler was from xtfftc but its contents were not the part of the post i was refering to
im using gracks "info" (a quote that he quoted) because the he highlighted a contradiction and because it is such a major contradiction when looked at in the context of his actions as a whole that he needs to explain it.
xtfftc has said "he thinks x is most likey to be mafia and then voted for y" and the reason he gave "to remind everyone that we have to catch 2 scum so im leaving my vote on eye215"(loosely i must have quoted it 2 times already) make absolutely no sense for someone whose priority is to catch mafia. when you combine this with the way he has evaded the actual points made against him but still posted a ton of stuff (so it looks like he is trying to help) he is very likely to be scum.
rather than not so subtly calling me mafia how about you post proper usable analysis to help town when you flip (if your town) or just dont post (if you are scum)
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off to bed, thanks for the laughs BK
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@ the thread - please be active and contribute
i think at this stage it is reasonable to state that blues (cop and tracker) may have some information and that there is a considerable chance that you might get shot tonight (2blues out of 6 town) i hope that you realise that if you die sitting on information then town does not benefit from it. i think that it is worth thinking about claiming immediately before the nightpost (please use common sense)
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vers xxx analysis have a look at tree huggers contradiction and vers analysis of it it is almost perfect match for what xtfftc wrote (i have linked it enough times already)
+the thread is worth reading if you have time i think he fits lots of the behaviours outlined by Ver as mafia motivated
(i don't know which blues are in the game i just think they need to consider that they could die soon)
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did you know that it is optimal play for town to not post? oh wait...
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i don't mean you im just frustrated that since joining the game i have made a very large proportion of the posts the posts i have made have been largely unadressed, that after voting for BK people went quiet and that people really aren't offering opinions of the points raised or providing analysis or discussion. i joined a game 3 days ago and there have been 5 pages of posts. if town isn't active it is difficult to be productive and we need to be more focused.
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A summary of xtfftc's actions so that we can be clear everthing i am summarising can be found in his filter or the past few pages in quotes or things he himself has said
on day 1 xtfftc indicated that he had a strong case on eye215 (very early in the game he has said he finds eye215 scummy, i would argue that he thought this too early and that if his case was genuine and strong then eye215 should be dead) on day 1 he vocally oppossed lynching Bbyte on day 1 he joined the "bandwagon" on Bbyte + Show Spoiler +he claimed to have a strong case (early in day1) on eye215 making him his best read, he later switched to xcksc possibly making him his best read, and he also said that adam may have been a good lynch. but he didn't vote for any of them???the reasoning of voting to prevent a voteswitch is almost acceptable but he later takes a very different stance
at a point day 2 he did say that jay was his strongest read he tried to move discussion away from jay + Show Spoiler +he did not do it because he was proposing a better case or to find scum for the next day lynch but acted in a way that potentially could have saved jay he proposed a case on eye215 (based primarily on analysis of day1 he justified voting for him because he didn't wish to be accused of bandwagoning he left his vote on eye215 to remind people that we have to lynch the whole mafia team (which makes no sense whatsoever) he did not vote for jay + Show Spoiler +at the start of day 2 there was a strong case on a member of the mafia team (town didn't know he was mafia) xtfftc has previously called jay suspicious but he then decided that voting for a player he thought was scum could lead to him being accused of bandwagoning and that the risk of being accused of bandwagoning was not worth commiting to voting for jay.only scum fear being accused, and bandwagoning is something that by definition you do with other people so it simply isn't a good reason for at lynch at all, he may get increased attention which a town player should use to support their innocence. He also stated that he would switch his vote back if it looked like a voteswitch could happen, which contradicts the only reasonable explanation for his day1 actions. he voted in a way that could have lead to a voteswitch off of a player he thought was probably scum this makes a lot more sense if he is mafia himself
on day 3 he voted for BK i asked him to justify his previous behaviour + Show Spoiler + what happened to his case on eye215 i wonder? he has not explained these actions satisfactorily see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explanation
he has evaded explaining how these mafia are reasonable town actions he has attempted to twist the things i had previously said + Show Spoiler +he criticised me for quoting (in a spoiler) an entire post and highlighting the key bit, he also accused me of cherry picking when i left out irrelevant information that had nothing to do with my point and did not put his statements into better context
he denied saying that jay was his best read (a lie) + Show Spoiler +read this post and this post you should aslo check his filter above and below to place it into context, jay was fairly doomed at this point and xtfftc says that he thinks he is mafia he propsed a LAL against his accuser (me) because i said he was happy to be on the Bbyte lynch, and yet he was on it. he has OMGUS'd against me by calling me scum without properly justifying his doing so he has forced wifom logic into situations in which it should not be applied to confuse and defsnd himself he has linked a lot to previous posts but he has not explained himself, posting so much without answering what you claim you are answering has cluttered the thread and is not helpful to town (if he is town, which he is not)
he has also stated that as town you have lynch to kill mafia, and that you have to lynch your strongest scum read (this pops up in vers XXX analysis in which a player (tree hugger)does almost exactly what he has done)
he words and his actions do not match the only players that would have motivation to act the way he has are Mafia ##Vote: xtfftc
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by the way if you were role blocked last night then you should claim
if a town was roleblocked they should share the information (town can benefit from information) and if mafia is stupid then by claiming roleblock they could be counter claimed and town could trade 1 for 1 if mafia claims to have been roleblocked to ensure they cannot be counter claimed they must not roleblock a town.
no matter who claims the only outcomes benefit town
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And layabout has provided yet another post with lots of statement and no evidence while waiting for Veli to vote first. hahahahahahaha
the evidence is all over the thread that was a clear summary to avoid confusion and a formatting hell for myself almost everything in there has been raised as an issue before and that your next post ignores my arguements and does not answer the issue. yet again you have made a big post and given precisely fuck all to the thread.
"waits for veli to vote first?" the nightend/daystart post was at 3am for me, i got up at 8:am and went to study at 8:30, i got back home at 4pm and i was tutoring someone from 4pm - 5:30 pm
besides not being the 1st to vote for you is a no tell that has next to no bearing on my alignment, it is a piece of information with monumental uselessness. Scum would be more likely to make a point like than than town would (because town saying as such should realise that it holds no value whilst mafia just want to deflect attention/scumhunting from themselves onto others). It is desperate.
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i couldn't find a minimum activity requirement but @Zona is Bluelights getting modkilled/replaced for inactivity? his filter in the last 5 days he has posted at these times December 09 2011 08:55. a line of text December 10 2011 10:45. line + vote December 12 2011 01:23 2 lines worth of text + quotes December 12 2011 01:34 1 liner December 12 2011 01:34 comment on typos December 12 2011 02:14 2 lines of text my timestamp for velinaths last post December 14 2011 06:34
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On December 14 2011 06:52 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote: I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
I'm frankly not sure what has been brought up/not brought up re:xtfftc at this point but I do have a question about this vote. Wouldn't a last minute surprise be a good thing for the town in many cases? A last minute switch screams mafia. Just wondering on your logic. fix this and give you thoughts please
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On December 14 2011 07:31 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:21 Velinath wrote: I'm also going to ask at this point that other people start posting. We are almost halfway through Day 4 and so far it's been largely dominated by layabout (earlier), xtfftc, and myself. Where is everyone? I'll speak for myself here. I think the entire thread have taken a bad turn after layabout came into play. All he have done is make shitty cases and OMGUS'ing anyone arguing with him. I think he himself is playing an utterly crappy game (if he is town), he is purposly misinterpreting what other writes, twisting and turning every word that is written and his dickish behaviour wants me to straight up punch him in the face. He acts like he is so fucking great at this game, and keep referencing other games and how this game should be played. At the moment I get pissed off just by opening the thread and reading anything he writes, and therefor I find it hard to contribute anything usefull. I'll give him this though, if he is scum he is doing a good job, creating a crappy townenvironment and distracting the town with his shit. I know this is an increadible OMGUS post, and I know it will probably make me look bad, but I don't care, I can't coexist with layabout anyways. So please feel free to jump on me, cause atm I am the third best lynch town can make (green townie who is having a hard time contributing). I will give layabout the benefit of the doubt, I think he is scum and not a crappy asshole of a town... ##Vote: layaboutyour case is just so good! (/sarcasm) you have really proved through analysis that all of my behaviour suggests that i am mafia (/more sarcasm) your also insulting... which is of course the best way to present a legitimate argument (/immature and slightly hypocritical rebuttal) please come up with something to support your vote pssst i referenced ver because i felt it was relevant and that his analysis really puts the behaviours i have drawn attention to into context, reading through and understanding the guides/analysis on tl that can help new players to improve.
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EBWOP below vote layabout are my comments
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trying to force town to pick between two players especially including yourself is just flat out anti-town by pure chance any player you pick is likely to be town, if you are town that makes 2 town by my impression of the game so far (aboutyou)/(my) rolepm i believe that we are both town lynching a townie would almost certainly force lylo right now (1 from lynch + nightkill puts us a 3town-2mafia) even worse should one of us flip town if we had forced the thread to chose, forcing the situation itself is scummy behaviour and killing a townie makes it much likelier that the survivor would get lynched, and if the survivor is town that would be game.
you also say your case isnt great don't vote for someone if your case is weak. + Show Spoiler +i think its okay to say that right? i also found the image of me going "total ass-hole" quite amusing
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i will be back tomorrow about 12 hours before the deadline maybe today there will be an enitire page made in my absence + Show Spoiler +i have thought this every day, every time i login i am awash with disappointment
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if he is modkilled + flips town, we mislynch, and mafia get a nightkill we lose!!
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Tunkeg:
On December 12 2011 04:35 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 03:58 Tunkeg wrote:lol @ layabout. You are quite a piece of work, you come out guns blazing, with purely one dimensional cases against me and then on xtfftc. Me you want to lynch based on my probability lynch, xtfftc you want to lynch based on his reasoning behind why he didn't vote jay.Sure both me and xtfftc should be looked into for beeing on the wrong side of both the lynches that have taken place. But really your stuff is just weak. + Show Spoiler +The most funny though is that after you first started the case on xtfftc: + Show Spoiler +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:i need to take some time to try to understand Broodking 's post in the meantime i think that xtfftc: has made some glaring contradictions and that he owes and explanation Grackaroni highlighted this in an earlier post and i think you (xtfftc) need to expalin: Show nested quote +I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon. At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE) you explicity state that you think Jay is the most likely to be scum and grack makes this point Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:16 Grackaroni wrote: Show nested quote +
Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . .
I stated my reasons for keeping my vote on EY. Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia. you call his "reasoning" (i see a simple statement of fact) "pure WIFOM" well where is the pure wifom in this? Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote: I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote: I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion. you have stated that you should only vote for mafia and that you should lynch your best read and yet in the above quote you do not do that here earlier you didn't Show nested quote + On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote: Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte.
Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out: + Show Spoiler +
I'll check the thread again before going to bed.
you have a strong case on a player but you would rather not post it and you would rather vote for someone other than your best read? seriously? so you vote for BByte Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote: I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
why? "its better than a last minute suprise" you just jump on a bandwagonShow nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote: Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it. another contradiction it also doesn't make sense that "to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team" could be a reason for a vote i also think your case against eye is weak i shall soon explain why. You proceed to post this on BKE: On December 11 2011 06:43 layabout wrote: i would like to post analysis before i vote and i still have plenty of time to do so but as it stands i don't feel like i can justify a vote for anybody over broodkingexe BKEXE if you are town please help!! because lynching a town today would really hurt our chances and people have so confidently voted for you they have barely been posting there has been very little discussion so far and so a mislynch would make today a huge waste of time that could have been spent scumhunting And then you continue your case on xtfftc without adding anything to it, and then vote for him. Basically doing the same thing as he did on the jay case. Are you fucking kidding me??? I think you are trying your best to derail the BKE lynch. Your moves are truly desperate. i want you to look at this post and explain to me the errors you have made then apologise and lets move on
sadly tunkeg never did respond to this post, so i will do it for him. this also adressed the point bluelightz made against me
Sure both me and xtfftc should be looked into for beeing on the wrong side of both the lynches that have taken place he identifies bbyte flipping town and jay flipping scum and them voting bbyte/not voting jay as the thing that i am saying makes them scummy. I did NOT say that, i posted about how the things they said and didsuggests that they are mafia.he misrepresents my points and then labels them weak. the act of doing so is anti town. additionally he calls my case against xtfftc "one dimensional" "weak" and "desperate". Now if you are a town player and you think that a case is weak this is not the way to convince people that it is weak, by addressing the actual case itself and criticising it you can eliminate a bad case by showing that it is bad, discrediting a player or their posts in this way can be between null and scummy play.doing this in a post that is entirely to discredit a player is inexcusable because if you were sucessful a case would be dropped and a player would be ignored due to misrepresented and out of context information, and insults about my posts that are not related to their content.
The most funny though is that after you first started the case on xtfftc:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 11 2011 02:21 layabout wrote:i need to take some time to try to understand Broodking 's post in the meantime i think that xtfftc: has made some glaring contradictions and that he owes and explanation Grackaroni highlighted this in an earlier post and i think you (xtfftc) need to expalin: Show nested quote +I've posted more on Jay, look at Day 1 but it's mostly one off remarks (such as pointing out how Jay justified not voting for a lurker by saying that we shouldn't lynch a lurker because a lurker isn't around to defend himself) and I don't see how the last quote was me suggesting that he is probably town. It was me pointing out the scumminess of EY's reasoning, and at that moment it was to be expected that mafia would jump on the Jay bandwagon. At the moment I think that Jay is more likely to be scum because if he's not, we have EY, xsk, and Adam left, and I consider Adam to be the worst lynch out of the players I am suspicious of (Adam, Jay, EY, xsk, BKE) you explicity state that you think Jay is the most likely to be scum and grack makes this point Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 10:16 Grackaroni wrote: Show nested quote +
Here he even admits that Jay is more likely to be scum but his vote still remains on Ey215. . .
I stated my reasons for keeping my vote on EY. Your reasoning is pure WIFOM in this case. Jay was obviously going to be lynched hours before I posted the bit you quoted, so what could a townie do in this situation? Vote for Jay and be accused of sheeping after BH and bandwagonning (remember Tunkeg and his analysis of the Bbyte lynch?) Or vote for someone else and be accused of not voting for the obvious mafia. you call his "reasoning" (i see a simple statement of fact) "pure WIFOM" well where is the pure wifom in this? Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 06:45 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 06:06 ey215 wrote:On December 08 2011 04:56 xtfftc wrote:On December 08 2011 04:15 ey215 wrote: I'm not 100% sold that he's scum, but I'm sold his behavior has been anti-town.
##vote: jaybrundage ... Town does not vote to punish bad play. Town votes to lynch mafia. Right, and right now the best case for scum I've seen is the one on jay. I don't think it's currently possible to be 100% sold on anyone at the moment town or scum. I've read the filters, and have nothing unique to add to the discussion so why clog the thread up even further? Am I supposed to be like, "FUCK YEAH WE'RE KILLING SCUM!" Besides BH, I don't think anyone is 100% sure on jay, but at the moment it's the best we've got. Hopefully it solidifies later in the day, or someone else catches something You lynch your best read. You don't start looking for excuses for when the player you're voting for flips town. Yes, because I did such a great job laying under the radar before. Let's see, pissing match with the most active/aggressive player in the thread. Check.
Getting myself warned for inactivity in big blue letters to point it out to everyone. Check.
Great job I'm doing staying under the radar. You didn't want to get into the "pissing match" with BH, you were forced to by his aggressiveness. And using lurking as a proof that you haven't been staying under the radar is a pretty solid point if you're building a case against yourself. You were out of the picture when every good mafia wants to be: during the last ~12 hours before the deadline, so you did a great job. On December 08 2011 06:10 ey215 wrote: I'd also like Starshard, xftttc, and Bluelightz to respond to by the accusations that EB made. I know it sucks for the replacements but there needs to be some response to it. He seemed pretty damn convinced he had the game won and then got offed by the mafia overnight. I answered to him after he mentioned me and I don't see how his death changes anything. What is there to be said about EB? His play was arrogant and trollish. He was obviously a veteran smurfing, who thought it would be fun to frustrate the townies (refusing to vote just when he was asked to the most active player in the game just because he felt like irritating us) and then giving us a great demonstration of how a town player has to prove his innocence when attacked. He posted a great case that lacked obvious flaws - and then he was happy to go inactive again. He came back to announce that he's found the whole mafia team - but didn't bother providing any analysis on two of the players he accused. And he also made sure to notify us that the Bbyte lynch was pushed easily... Before the game started (and also in the Looking For Coaches thread) some veterans suggested that there should be some experienced players in this game to help teach the newbies how to play properly. Instead we get a cocky smurf. There was no way to make a good guess about his intentions, which is the reason why I'm not all over Hassy at the moment. EB was good enough to make us do anything he wanted to as long as he was interested in putting a serious effort in the game, and I have no reason to believe that his intentions were pro-town, even after his flip. Ask veterans such as Sandroba and Palmar and they will tell you that the first thing a townie should do is to establish his/her innocence. The first thing EB did was to frustrate town and lose us half a day. So what good would it do to town to focus on him again instead of doing our own analysis? All you're achieving with this is disruping the discussion. you have stated that you should only vote for mafia and that you should lynch your best read and yet in the above quote you do not do that here earlier you didn't Show nested quote + On December 06 2011 06:20 xtfftc wrote: Pretty much all I have on Adam is based on two of his posts that push pro-mafia agenda. Now that I think about it, I have a much stronger case on ey215, even though I decided to leave him for day 2. I don't have enough to convince Adam on my own and it seems that most of the others are happy to lurk or to vote for lynching Bbyte.
Here's what I wrote on Adam earlier in case you're lazy and can't be bothered to check it out: + Show Spoiler +
I'll check the thread again before going to bed.
you have a strong case on a player but you would rather not post it and you would rather vote for someone other than your best read? seriously? so you vote for BByte Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 07:26 xtfftc wrote: I'm going to bed, so I'm voting for Bbyte. It's not ideal but it's better than some unpleasant last minute surprise.
##Unvote: xsksc
##Vote: BByte
why? "its better than a last minute suprise" you just jump on a bandwagonShow nested quote +On December 09 2011 05:24 xtfftc wrote: Yes, albeit a short one that doesn't cover some bits. I feel uneasy about the way no one objects on lynching Jay. It feels like Day 1 all over again, which makes me wonder whether Jay might actually be town - even though mafia are probably just bussing him at this point. So my vote stays on EY to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team and not just one member of it. another contradiction it also doesn't make sense that "to remind people that we have to catch the whole mafia team" could be a reason for a vote i also think your case against eye is weak i shall soon explain why. You proceed to post this on BKE: On December 11 2011 06:43 layabout wrote: i would like to post analysis before i vote and i still have plenty of time to do so but as it stands i don't feel like i can justify a vote for anybody over broodkingexe BKEXE if you are town please help!! because lynching a town today would really hurt our chances and people have so confidently voted for you they have barely been posting there has been very little discussion so far and so a mislynch would make today a huge waste of time that could have been spent scumhunting allow me to add context which you have left out. In the first post you quote i presented some things xtfftc had done that i felt he should explain and asked him to explain them. I then posted something similar regaurding your probability lynch post and why it was scummy. i continued to pressure you until i felt that very little to no more useful information could be obtained. the second post was part of the last real post (there was also a one liner from me) i made reaguarding you
xtfftc then responded by not actually answering my questions, by trying to confuse and, i feel my posting strongly reflects that i found his responses extremely scummy. i tried again to get him to answer me he still didn't xtfftc then posted this:
This might work with somebody else but not with me. I have addressed your questions but it's obvious that you want to waste my time now and to distract me the best you can. I am committed to providing more analysis and if you are so scared that you decide to shoot me or manage to somehow manipulate the town into lynching me, they will have a lot of information to work with after I flip green. As long as I continue contributing, my death wouldn't be that much of a problem for town, so I am not afraid of dying.
But now that I refuse to play your game, you try to scare me into doing nothing else but defending myself. If you were town, you would have been happy to let me finish the BKE analysis because it is very important for us. Instead, you chose to be obtrusive, even though I already paid a lot of attention to you. It's not like I said I'm not going to answer you at all. I could have simply pretended I'm not checking the thread but only mafia are scared of some extra attention. he had not adressed my actual questions - he soft claims vanilla townie an action that has no value whatsoever to town because all players try to appear town aligned and claims of vanilla town cannot be proven until your dead (or possibly in this set-up an announced cop check and cop + other blue flipped)
-he accuses me of trying to manipulate town and of trying to scare him into doing nothing but defending himself so in his eyes pressuring a player and asking them to EXPLAIN themselves is a scare tactic that hurts town, pressuring is good, mafia can seriously benefit from an environment without people pressuring or justifying how they act, (it makes it easier to hide). -saying he isn't afraid of dying in part is claiming vanilla town and is entirely unhelpful. -he also stresses the value of his contribution and mentions that he could have simply ignored my posts is he was mafia this implies that the act of responding makes he more town-like (in fact it doesn't).
basically what he is saying boils down to "hey guys im town, this person asking me questions is mafia, did i mention that im town?"
after seeing how he responded and without addressing any of the concerns i had raised about how he was likely mafia, i decided to vote for him.
from this time onwards xtfftc has been my strongest scumread and the more he posts and trashes the thread the more convinced i am that he is scum and so i have tried to make my case as clear as possible. i then voted for him.
Me you want to lynch based on my probability lynch he seems to think i wanted to lynch him based on his probability lynch, i asked him questions, i criticised his answers, i stopped posting about him and then i posted about and pushed someone else. i didn't even present a case on him. i never said that we should lynch him based on that post. this is another example of him misrepresenting me.
I think you are trying your best to derail the BKE lynch i feel that my reasons for xtfftc being scum over BK are a lot more comprehensive than your reasons for eye215 being scum over jay. I also feel that my posts reflect that i had reasons for thinking the BK lynch was sensible, but also that i was no convinced by them and that i felt i had a better case and that we should lynch xtfftc over BK. I feel that my actions are much better than voting for BK at the start of the day, not adding anything and then scrathcing my head 48 hours later when BK flipped town + Show Spoiler +you all know who you are and I'm watching you do you really think trying to lynch xtfftc over BK and keep people posting makes me likely to be mafia?
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well, I cant say anything else but, things to consider
He & Velinath has been agreeing alot.
He's been tunneling xtf preety much since he was in the mafia @ bluelights agreeing with somebody is a null tell
tunneling and pushing a case are different things
why have you suddenly started posting? coughcough
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