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On November 24 2011 23:05 mcht wrote:hey guys, first game of mafia ever  i think palmar is right about us having to do the first step/taking the first risk, if we just wait or dont trust anyone scum will win for sure, ignoring all posts he is 80% town, so if our chances of winning with palmar as town and everbody trusting him are better than 5:3 we're ok even if he wins everytime he is mafia, would that be realistic ? especially in the beginning i think you can never be 100% sure about someone but the worst thing for town is to get stuck in only accusations flying around because someone could be mafia. yeah everybody could be, that's the essence of this game but at some points in the game a rational portion of trust is required for town to win in my opinion, i read some games and saw a lot of townies ripping each other apart over semantics etc  so im voting palmar, he seems to be pretty active and operates on logic, not spouting too much nonsense :D you should probably not rely on my analysis since it could be majorly flawed xD
If you operate on stats, everyone in this game has 80% chance of being town and all the candidates thus far are more experienced players. As such we have slightly higher chances normally of being red as a more experienced player in a game full of newer players is usually required to be red to help guide and teach them. As such it really is not an 80% chance for the experienced players as we are more likely to be hand picked to teach mafia to play. As such we have a far higher chance of red than most players. Vote based for what we say, not the % chance we could be legit.
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On November 24 2011 23:05 mcht wrote:hey guys, first game of mafia ever i think palmar is right about us having to do the first step/taking the first risk, if we just wait or dont trust anyone scum will win for sure, ignoring all posts he is 80% town, so if our chances of winning with palmar as town and everbody trusting him are better than 5:3 we're ok even if he wins everytime he is mafia, would that be realistic ? especially in the beginning i think you can never be 100% sure about someone but the worst thing for town is to get stuck in only accusations flying around because someone could be mafia. yeah everybody could be, that's the essence of this game but at some points in the game a rational portion of trust is required for town to win in my opinion, i read some games and saw a lot of townies ripping each other apart over semantics etc so im voting palmar, he seems to be pretty active and operates on logic, not spouting too much nonsense :D you should probably not rely on my analysis since it could be majorly flawed xD
This is a fallacy that Palmar has brought into this game.
Palmar DOES NOT need to be mayor to scumhunt. Palmar's ability to serve town does not magically get better just by being mayor. The advantages we would gain from Palmar being a mayor does not outweigh the disadvantages we would shoulder if Palmar turned out to be scum.
Palmar's ability to sway town is strong enough as it is. There is no need to give him excessive power. He will perform just as well as a regular townie if he isn't a scum. Now, I'd prefer to give someone with less swaying power (anyone) the mayor role, just because if Palmar became mayor and proceeded to use his powers (including the power to sway town) to kill blue after blue after blue, he would excuse himself and successfully convince town that lynching him as the mayor is the wrong decision.
There are better candidates. Don't fall for an obvious trap.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
I just finished writing like an 8 page article to post on TL and now trying to analyse what's going on here is actually killing my brain...
On November 24 2011 22:52 Erandorr wrote:
Newbies
Basicly no one is going to play well in their first game. I don't know of anyone who did. But to use something some smart Player once said : The greatest thing you can do as a Townie is making you alignment apparant. If you stay lurking in the shadows, we have nothing to asses you and will probably have to waste Powerroles or lynches to get rid of you. In that case you are actually hurting town more than helping. Thats why there is so much focus on activity. Its okay if your reads are a bit off in your first game, it is usually fairly easy to spot the intentions behind it. It is especially important because we have no information about you , your playstyle and capabilities(Meta)
See, this is my main problem. I have absolutely no idea who I can contribute in a positive manner. People mention that it is better to contribute, even if you get it wrong, but the fear of me making a mistake makes me not want to contribute, but me not contributing makes me making a mistake...
I think this is also why I'm leaning towards Palmar; he's clearly a veteran, so a fear of making a mistake has made me lean towards following him, maybe even a bit blindly. That may well be a great plan all along, to get all the newbies on your side so you get a safe Mayoral role (make a lot of sense in my eyes) but because of that...I have no idea now...
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On November 24 2011 23:13 Kurumi wrote:
Who coaches prplhz?
He's actually getting slightly better.
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On November 24 2011 21:15 hyshes wrote:
I've totally a null read on anybody. If this isn't changing, i'm gonna vote randomly for mayor (we outnumber the scum, so playing the game of numbers) But i do hope i can make a logical decision.
On November 24 2011 23:10 hyshes wrote:
I voted errandor just to have a vote atm. Probably will change.
I'm not sure this is scummy or not, but it's definitely dumb.
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On November 24 2011 23:13 Kurumi wrote:
Who coaches prplhz?
Safe to say it's not you.
I would like an answer to my question. Who or how do you plan to pick for your day 1 lynch if you're elected?
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On November 24 2011 23:12 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok guys this is a serious question and as there are no coaches I'm going to ask this here. I'm aware that probably a bunch of vets are mafia and some are not so I'd like to have a couple of guys answer this (or argree on what someone else said/answered) to make sure I'm not only going to answeres from one pile (for example scumm).
What should I be looking for in a game with elections on day1? Most times I'm trying to figure out who's scummy on day1 by looking into what people are saying. fosing around a little and check out their reactions on foses. However this turned out to be a massive "who looks more town to you" thing with all those campaigns and judging townie based on day1 is really hard as it is very easy for a mafia to look townie on day1. So what should I be looking for? Completely ignore mafia-issue for day1 to make sure to get a good mayor? Because that's what it looks like to me what people are doing right now.
Also just a sidenote. Bombing this thread with huges campaigns is not exactly going to make it easier for newbies imo as noone will read 3 pages of bullshit in a row if those are just some fancy talking and I'm not talking about french here.
Finally another question for a host/cohost but perhaps players can answer this as well:
Voting for mayor is done just like voting for a lynch is done I presume?
That means you type in your vote, you are able (!) to unvote and vote someone new and in generel it works like lynching just that the player with most votes gets to be mayor instead of being lynched?
You should be aiming for someone who is running on stances or promising to do things that are accountable. If for instance I say that I can instantly clear the sanity of our dts by day 3 and I fail to do so, you lynch me or force me to enact double lynches till the town runs out then kills me.
If someone runs on a platform of I am awesome and these stats prove why. You should not vote for them.
You put someone into power who promises to lead but is also accountable. If someone gets elected on really vague ideals or without promising to do anything then it is alot harder to get a solid read on them long term.
If what someone does day 1 makes it harder to get a clear read on them farther into the game do not elect them. If it gives you a clear start and will make reading them later on far easier, then they are safer. A mafia mayor that you can catch day 2 or 3 is bad but not nearly as bad as one that gets elected and never killed.
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On November 24 2011 23:16 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 21:15 hyshes wrote:
I've totally a null read on anybody. If this isn't changing, i'm gonna vote randomly for mayor (we outnumber the scum, so playing the game of numbers) But i do hope i can make a logical decision. Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 23:10 hyshes wrote:
I voted errandor just to have a vote atm. Probably will change. I'm not sure this is scummy or not, but it's definitely dumb.
Well what do you think about my campaign then ^.^
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On November 24 2011 23:15 Hassybaby wrote:I just finished writing like an 8 page article to post on TL and now trying to analyse what's going on here is actually killing my brain... Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 22:52 Erandorr wrote:
Newbies
Basicly no one is going to play well in their first game. I don't know of anyone who did. But to use something some smart Player once said : The greatest thing you can do as a Townie is making you alignment apparant. If you stay lurking in the shadows, we have nothing to asses you and will probably have to waste Powerroles or lynches to get rid of you. In that case you are actually hurting town more than helping. Thats why there is so much focus on activity. Its okay if your reads are a bit off in your first game, it is usually fairly easy to spot the intentions behind it. It is especially important because we have no information about you , your playstyle and capabilities(Meta)
See, this is my main problem. I have absolutely no idea who I can contribute in a positive manner. People mention that it is better to contribute, even if you get it wrong, but the fear of me making a mistake makes me not want to contribute, but me not contributing makes me making a mistake... I think this is also why I'm leaning towards Palmar; he's clearly a veteran, so a fear of making a mistake has made me lean towards following him, maybe even a bit blindly. That may well be a great plan all along, to get all the newbies on your side so you get a safe Mayoral role (make a lot of sense in my eyes) but because of that...I have no idea now...
The best contribution you can make to the game is to read it carefully. If you really want to get good fast, I suggesting keeping a document where you write down notes on each individual player. If you are town, by definition you cannot make a mistake. All you do is "This is what I think about the situation, and this is why I think it". Being wrong isn't a crime. It's not what you do, it's how you do it.
It's better to be wrong for the right reasons, than to be right for the wrong reasons.
Be open, and be transparent. People will call you out for mistakes, but as long as you remain honest, you should be fine.
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On November 24 2011 23:15 Hassybaby wrote:I just finished writing like an 8 page article to post on TL and now trying to analyse what's going on here is actually killing my brain... Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 22:52 Erandorr wrote:
Newbies
Basicly no one is going to play well in their first game. I don't know of anyone who did. But to use something some smart Player once said : The greatest thing you can do as a Townie is making you alignment apparant. If you stay lurking in the shadows, we have nothing to asses you and will probably have to waste Powerroles or lynches to get rid of you. In that case you are actually hurting town more than helping. Thats why there is so much focus on activity. Its okay if your reads are a bit off in your first game, it is usually fairly easy to spot the intentions behind it. It is especially important because we have no information about you , your playstyle and capabilities(Meta)
See, this is my main problem. I have absolutely no idea who I can contribute in a positive manner. People mention that it is better to contribute, even if you get it wrong, but the fear of me making a mistake makes me not want to contribute, but me not contributing makes me making a mistake... I think this is also why I'm leaning towards Palmar; he's clearly a veteran, so a fear of making a mistake has made me lean towards following him, maybe even a bit blindly. That may well be a great plan all along, to get all the newbies on your side so you get a safe Mayoral role (make a lot of sense in my eyes) but because of that...I have no idea now...
Well give your thoughts about players. Tell us what you think about the different campaigns. Analyse every post and question the motives behind it. Think about the content and if you agree / disagree and give reasons.
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On November 24 2011 23:19 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 23:16 bonifaceviii wrote:On November 24 2011 21:15 hyshes wrote:
I've totally a null read on anybody. If this isn't changing, i'm gonna vote randomly for mayor (we outnumber the scum, so playing the game of numbers) But i do hope i can make a logical decision. On November 24 2011 23:10 hyshes wrote:
I voted errandor just to have a vote atm. Probably will change. I'm not sure this is scummy or not, but it's definitely dumb. Well what do you think about my campaign then ^.^
Your campaign is fine, I just think hyshes is being stupid with those two posts.
If I end up not voting Palmar, I'll probably vote for you. Mostly because you're copying Palmar's campaign without being Palmar.
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On November 24 2011 23:02 prplhz wrote:
xtfftc
Has a very interesting campaign and he points out some of the same things as I have done about transparency and experienced scum in office. xtfftc points out that he is a complete newbie. I wouldn't agree with this, but he doesn't seem like he is even intending to live up to the responsibilities that come with being elected. He is already trying to downplay expectations and saying "if I do bad, then just lynch me" instead of actually thinking he'll do good. This indicates that he will not be putting a lot of effort into the game and that he doesn't care if he gets lynched, and this is very unsettling.
His pledge to vote for Palmar is weird. Palmar does not fit the platform that xtfftc himself is running on. It seems like xtfftc wants you to vote for him for some reasons, and then he himself will vote for Palmar for some other reasons. Supporting someone else in your campaign post also indicates that he doesn't even want the office, I doubt he will push it any further.
Did you even bother reading my posts?
I did not claim that I am a complete newbie. I wrote that I have "some experience but not too much", "experienced enough to know who is who - but not enough to win the game on my own", etc.
The "if I do bad, then just lynch me" bit is also completely made up.
I did not pledge to vote for Palmar. I said that I would be willing to vote for him if I am convinced that he is town because it would play to his strengths.
I consider myself to be a good compromise and I stated my arguments already. I am also not trying to deny that having one of the town veterans as a mayor would be a huge victory for town, so I don't "want the office" for me for the sake of feeling important.
Do you mind clarifying how you came up with some of the stuff you posted?
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if you have a fear of making a mistake, you're probably scum right ?
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On November 24 2011 23:19 Jackal58 wrote:Safe to say it's not you. I would like an answer to my question. Who or how do you plan to pick for your day 1 lynch if you're elected?
At the moment I would say youngminii.
This is based on how he is trying to oppose my campaign. All he is doing is attempting to make people afraid of voting me into office, because he for some reason believes that I have such a ridiculous sway over town that the game will be unwinnable if I happen to be scum.
Without actively pushing another candidate, all he's doing is discrediting my campaign. He did mention sandroba, but I feel it's slightly ironic that of the candidates, sandroba (along with BC) is probably the person that can match both my scum and town play. This is not consistent with his fear of putting me in office.
Not to mention, as already pointed out by someone, he has already contradicted himself once.
I have no problem with people trying to oppose my campaign, BC seems to be doing it for much more valid reasons. I felt that in such a big game with so many newbies, I needed to establish a presence by pointing out I am actually pretty good at this game (most of the time ), and now BC is correctly pointing out it's not past games that make us mayors this game. Which is why I'm shifting towards discussing the game at hand.
All in all, I will be using traditional scumhunting methods to select the day 1 lynch. And thanks to the way youngminii has gone about attacking my campaign, I would say he's a good target for a day 1 lynch, of course pending further discussion, as it's still early.
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if you would be elected and you are scum, how would you say are towns chances of winning ?
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On November 24 2011 23:29 mcht wrote:if you would be elected and you are scum, how would you say are towns chances of winning ?
provided players much like myself or roba are town to his mafia they would be similar chances to what they are now provided we can get him lynched.
One player does not make or break a game. They can severely shift the game one way or another but other players have the same capacity to do the same thing.
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On November 24 2011 23:27 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 23:19 Jackal58 wrote:On November 24 2011 23:13 Kurumi wrote:
Who coaches prplhz? Safe to say it's not you. I would like an answer to my question. Who or how do you plan to pick for your day 1 lynch if you're elected? At the moment I would say youngminii. This is based on how he is trying to oppose my campaign. All he is doing is attempting to make people afraid of voting me into office, because he for some reason believes that I have such a ridiculous sway over town that the game will be unwinnable if I happen to be scum. Without actively pushing another candidate, all he's doing is discrediting my campaign. He did mention sandroba, but I feel it's slightly ironic that of the candidates, sandroba (along with BC) is probably the person that can match both my scum and town play. This is not consistent with his fear of putting me in office. Not to mention, as already pointed out by someone, he has already contradicted himself once. I have no problem with people trying to oppose my campaign, BC seems to be doing it for much more valid reasons. I felt that in such a big game with so many newbies, I needed to establish a presence by pointing out I am actually pretty good at this game (most of the time ), and now BC is correctly pointing out it's not past games that make us mayors this game. Which is why I'm shifting towards discussing the game at hand. All in all, I will be using traditional scumhunting methods to select the day 1 lynch. And thanks to the way youngminii has gone about attacking my campaign, I would say he's a good target for a day 1 lynch, of course pending further discussion, as it's still early.
Aside from you using previous games experience I have had no real issue with your platform. I merely pointed it out because its a horrible way for people to vote. People should always vote based on behaviour this game, not previous ones.
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On November 24 2011 23:25 mcht wrote:if you have a fear of making a mistake, you're probably scum right ?
Have you ever seen Glengarry Glen Ross?
AARONOW
He said we're all going to have to
go talk to the guy.
ROMA
What?
AARONOW
He said we...
ROMA
To the cops thread?
AARONOW
Yeah.
ROMA
Yeah. That's swell. Another waste
of time.
AARONOW
A waste of time? Why?
ROMA
Why? 'Cause they aren't going to
find the guy.
AARONOW
The cops thread?
ROMA
Yes. The cops thread. No.
AARONOW
They aren't?
ROMA
No.
AARONOW
Why don't you think so?
ROMA
Why? Because they're stupid.
"Where were you last night..."
AARONOW
Where were you?
ROMA
Where was I?
AARONOW
Yes.
ROMA
I was at home, where were you?
AARONOW
At home.
ROMA
See...? Were you the guy who broke
in shot the DT?
AARONOW
Was I?
ROMA
Yes.
AARONOW
No.
ROMA
Then don't sweat it, George, you
know why?
AARONOW
No.
ROMA
You have nothing to hide.
AARONOW
(pause)
When I talk to the police thread, I get
nervous.
ROMA
Yeah. You know who doesn't?
AARONOW
No, who?
ROMA
Thieves. Mafia.
AARONOW
Why?
ROMA
They're inured to it.
AARONOW
You think so?
ROMA
Yes.
Pause.
AARONOW
But what should I tell them?
ROMA
The truth, George. Always tell the
truth. It's the easiest thing to
remember.
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Anyway, I am heading to work, be back sometime this evening. Keep the thread civil please.
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EPT
