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On August 22 2011 23:15 Palmar wrote:
Let's assume for a second you don't think I am scum, and in turn I'll think for a second you might be town aligned.
What would you think about lynching BrownBear. I will give my thoughts on your lynch target of choice after I've done re-reading his posts.
Works for me.
BrownBear, I don't think is mafia. From what I can see of his posts he is playing pro-town, making solid analysis.
I'll be moving my vote from Foolishness since it isn't doing any good there today. Still deciding who to put it on, I've got a couple candidates in mind.
Someone I really don't like the looks of right now is wherebugsgo
On August 23 2011 00:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
I feel like Palmar is town, as is VE. VE I think you should reconsider your vote on palmar. Right now xtfftc and Brownbear stand out to me; I can't really put a definite finger on either but I need to do some more reading and analyzing (on a computer, not an iPhone lol)
I would suggest also that you guys all remember Trotske and Vain. Some of the names from day 1 are being forgotten because of this hardcore tunneling going on. VE I think you're tunnelling too hard on Palmar and are missing other valuable leads we have right now. I say this based off what I read by filtering your posts.
Last things I wish to add/reiterate: I feel like Foolish is town, and he's usually a valuable source of information. If we get confirmation that he was lying about last night then we need to reconsider our stance about him being town. So far, other than the hit claim, foolish has done nothing to stand out, and so I'm inclined to say that he is town.
Palmar is most likely town as well in my opinion. Yeah, he's been tunnelling BB but I think it's rather warranted. BB's vote yesterday was rather scummy, and the post he made about semiactives had the feel of a nontown agenda. He tried throwing some suspicion on "semiactives" and listed 3-4 names, of which were JeeJee, hiro, myself, and Foolish.
Well damn, he sure thinks Palmar is town. Why does he post this shortly after then?
On August 23 2011 01:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
Upon rereading palmar's posts, I lean toward town. Palmar was never a proponent of the Sevryn lynch and he made several good (IMO) posts on how it matters not what a person thinks another's alignment is, but the WAY in which they propose their arguments. In this sense, I agree; the manner in which someone responds or posts is actually more important in order to determine their alignment than what they are literally saying.
You seemed way more convinced of his townieness earlier before you'd read his posts, but you provide other reasons for why he is town.. This just doesn't make sense to me. If wherebugsgo is scum, Palmar probably is as well.
But when I filter his posts I really don't get a strong read on him either way. Can I get some external input on him please?
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On August 23 2011 12:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
You don't like the looks of me because I don't think Palmar is mafia?
That's a real strong argument you've got there. Why don't you actually analyze my posts? If you actually did that then you'd find a strong read on me.
How the fuck...?
Did you even read my post?
No, I think you're *possible* (please note that, as I'm not sure on you and if you look closely you'll be able to see that I asked others for their opinion on you) mafia because you seemed very sure of him being town, and then apparently went back and re-read his posts, at which point you found more reason to believe he was town but somehow seemed less sure of your town read on him.
If you were so sure he was town, why did you have to go back and re-read?
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On August 23 2011 20:58 DropBear wrote:
Hell if I can get people to lynch supersoft instead I'd be stoked but Mig is red as hell based on supersoft's actions.
This post is the reason I'm inclined not to believe you. I can't see a genuine DT with a red check feeling like they will have trouble getting their red check lynched. This is a guilty mindset.
The order of events I would like to see happen right now
1. Lynch DB
2. If blue flip, vig supersoft
3. Suddenly, information - lynch mig.
Going back to read all of DropBear's posts before I move my vote to him.
Am I still the only one who thinks Foolish is scum? Check this post out
On August 23 2011 12:38 Foolishness wrote:
I spent last night rereading through all of chaoser's past games and all of brownbear's past games. It should be fairly obvious why I did this. I will defend chaoser to the grave if I have to, he's most certainly town.
I've never seen a townie be so adamant about defending their town read before. Regardless, I'll drop him for today and focus on what's relevant.
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Filter DropBears posts, and filter supersoft's posts. There is an obvious choice.
##Vote: supersoft
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On August 23 2011 21:49 Kurumi wrote:
@Vain
DB never said this in the thread. You and him need to die.
The thing Vain quoted was from the OP, not from DropBear.
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Triple ninja'd.
DropBear, what do you think of wherebugsgo?
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I'm going to channel my inner Jackal for a moment here.
Quit spamming you scummy fuckers.
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Why the fuck did you guys vote hiro over a red check?
brb, reading over today's posts.
....there's a lot...
-.-
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So DB wasn't a DT.
Fuck this shit. I'm going to bed. Sorry for the double spam post.
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On August 24 2011 19:23 Palmar wrote:
If we have the chance, I'd suggest to our vigilantes to focus on shooting active people tonight. The reason for this is that we severely lack information, so instead of shooting the scummiest lurkers like vigis usually should do, I'd ask you to shoot scummy active people.
Vigilantes, whatever you do, do not listen to this. Unless you're an amazing scumhunter (there's a few of you out there, so if you're one of them feel free) you are more likely to hit town. Then you have not only eliminated a townie, you have eliminated an actively contributing townie, which is BAD.
If you feel compelled to shoot, hit lurkers. Even better, hit a scummy lurker.
DT's check Palmar. Hell, vig him. He's still stirring this game up into an anti-town environment, so even if he's town it would be of more use than hitting a lurker.
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On August 24 2011 21:09 Palmar wrote:
shut up scum.
Or if you're town... you're amazingly bad.
It's gonna feel so good to lynch you and flip mafia after everyone thought I was wrong for so long. You have no idea how glad I am that people are finally starting to realize how scummy you are and how much you've disrupted this town. How does the post I quoted help anyone out in any way?
1) You're disrespectful.
2) Useless fucking spam.
If I were host I would have modkilled you already for your inability to heed all the spam warnings that have gone out. Shape up your attitude or don't play.
On August 24 2011 08:57 Palmar wrote:The second post I'm going to look specifically at from chaos comes in wake of the DB mess on day 2. He does have some questionable content over the day, just read it up and think about it. Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 21:15 chaos13 wrote:On August 23 2011 20:58 DropBear wrote:
Hell if I can get people to lynch supersoft instead I'd be stoked but Mig is red as hell based on supersoft's actions. This post is the reason I'm inclined not to believe you. I can't see a genuine DT with a red check feeling like they will have trouble getting their red check lynched. This is a guilty mindset. The order of events I would like to see happen right now 1. Lynch DB 2. If blue flip, vig supersoft 3. Suddenly, information - lynch mig. Going back to read all of DropBear's posts before I move my vote to him. Am I still the only one who thinks Foolish is scum? Check this post out On August 23 2011 12:38 Foolishness wrote:
I spent last night rereading through all of chaoser's past games and all of brownbear's past games. It should be fairly obvious why I did this. I will defend chaoser to the grave if I have to, he's most certainly town. I've never seen a townie be so adamant about defending their town read before. Regardless, I'll drop him for today and focus on what's relevant. This plan he's giving us is basically the perfect way to continue as mafia. He already knows both supersoft and dropbear won't flip scum, so hell, let's suggest we kill them both! This is of course based on the assumption they aren't scum, but we need to work with something. I think chaos 13 is our best lynch today ##Vote Chaos13
Anyone who has read the thread knows that this is quoted way out of context. Go back to where you found this post, then scroll down a little ways and tell me what happened. I'm not going to do it for you, I want you to post back with the results so the whole town can see exactly how you're trying to set me up here. If you fail to do so you are mafia, because you have no interest in actually backing up your position with evidence.
On August 24 2011 09:15 Mig wrote:
My main argument against chaos is just that he used very poor logic to attack palmar early on. Chaos is good enough he should have been able to see how palmar's tunneling had benefited the town. Yet instead he tried to turn it around to discredit and attack palmar. It's out of character for him.
People are now beginning to realize how I'm right. Mig, I'm gonna use the same argument against you; you're way better than this.
On August 24 2011 08:52 Jackal58 wrote:Actually fuck it. I was saving this for the end of the night phase but Chaos has not called me scummy this game. The only other times he has done this is because he was on the scum team. I know it sounds lame but he's so damn consistent at it it's funny. I have been watching to see if he chose one of the three main targets over the others but his votes are off in the toolies. Ya I'll lynch Chaos. But I do know he is at work. 
Oh hai Jackal.
Interesting how you suddenly jump on me once there's already a bit of a bandwagon forming. You, Mig, and Palmar just come up with this idea to see how much more mayhem you can cause?
There, was that a good enough accusation for you? It was genuine. I had no idea of your alignment until now because you hadn't posted enough for me to actually recognize that you were even playing this game.
My thoughts on scum so far
1. Palmar
2. Mig
Suspect
-Jackal58
-Nard
-Vain
-chaoser
-Kurumi
Previous suspects that I have since dropped and think are probably town
-supersoft
-wherebugsgo
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On August 24 2011 21:29 Palmar wrote:
yeah, probably not bad, just scum
On August 24 2011 21:31 Palmar wrote:
from now on, you don't exist chaos13. Go talk to visceraeyes. He's town though, you not so much.
Vigis hit Palmar tonight for his complete disregard for posting anything useful. His spam is the reason we haven't hit scum yet.
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On August 24 2011 21:34 Jackal58 wrote:
Chaos I was going to make that point at the end of the night phase for discussion tomorrow. I had no desire to open another can of worms in light of DB turning yesterday into a derp fest. The opportunity presented itself and I decided to roll with it.
Unfortunately I have no way of proving this to be true. I'll just have to wait and see how things turn out with you.
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Palmar...town? !@#%
On August 25 2011 11:16 Navillus wrote:
##Vote Brownbear
Palmar was town, he clearly was positive that Brownbear was scum, he's smart enough to get accurate reads, and everything foolishness said. This should be a no-brainer.
As to mig I wasn't here when Mig became suspicious and I'm gonna go look for it and through all of his posts but could someone just explain why he's such a big candidate?
In summary, Mig has not contributed to nearly his usual level, he is apparently "burned out" from mafia but is willing to post actively when he is being voted on, and if you'll read Foolishness' wall of text you'll see a brilliant little voting strategy that confirms Mig's scumminess. Mig as town is extremely helpful, extremely active, and extremely good at scumhunting.
With 4 kills last night we really need to be on the ball today.
##Vote: Mig
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Mig, if only you put as much effort into scumhunting as you did into defending yourself, we probably would have won this game already. About 90% of your defense on the past page and a half consists of some variation of "What? Your analysis is wrong, how could you even think that. chaos13 is scum." You fail to properly address any of the points against you, and you fail to convince me that you are not mafia.
I'm getting a little case of the heebie jeebies from this post.
On August 25 2011 16:12 Barundar wrote:
Why does hosts always give kurumi a gun? At least he can be ignored now.
The roleblock was most likely used on db to stop him from getting saves off.
I should have time to reread thread today. Mig did a pretty good job defending himself yesterday, and the case against brownbear is by far the best posted so far, so I'm more inclined to vote for him more than mig.
@mig: chaos13 played a way more passive game as scum in tf mafia, i don't see his actions this game fitting that pattern. What's your thhoughts on chaoser?
Way too many points covered way too briefly without enough explanation.
-Pointless comment on Kurumi, as well as anti-town. No player should be ignored.
-Speculation on RB
-Excuses himself for not having read the thread yet, claims BB is scummier than Mig. Not unreasonable, but I disagree with his conclusion that Mig did a good job defending himself. He did a lot of defending himself, but not very well.
-He has a town read on me when I am aware that I have been somewhat scummy this game. There are a few others who don't think I'm mafia as well, but the reasoning Barundar has is a little strange. Just a gut feeling.
Barundar has now reached my suspect list.
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Oh and in case nobody has realized, we are at LYLO right now.
Seems strange with 21 players left, but 6 mafia vs. 15 town with 3 kills each night. If we don't get mafia today it's only a matter of time til it's done.
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Alright Mig. I'm not in danger of being lynched, but I'll act as if you are town and respond to yours and Palmar's cases.
Palmar first. I just grabbed the summary of it because you can easily see from it that most of his points are no longer relevant.
On August 24 2011 08:57 Palmar wrote:
a) He complains about bad town atmosphere but does nothing to improve it, in turn becoming part of the problem
b) He's basically abstaining from voting, both on day 1, and now again on day 2, by throwing his votes on random people that aren't in danger of being lynched.
c) He hasn't actually pushed a single lynch hard the entire game.
a) I was unable to have thread presence all day, or I would have improved it.
b) Didn't end up doing that, I actually voted for who I thought was scum.
c) Not on D1 or D2, because I know I'm not very good on those days. Pushing Mig pretty hard today, and I'm getting my other suspects known and analyzed as well. This is common for my play. The first few days I'm not very active, just trying to wrap my head around spam and everything else, and it all falls together starting on D3.
Now yours.
On August 25 2011 17:14 Mig wrote:But that being said I still think chaos13 is a better lynch. I agree he seems slightly more aggressive this game but most of that aggression only came after palmar/jackal had called him out. Before that he was pretty inactive, he would just pop in write a post then disappear. He has barely commented on any of the main lynches that have gone on. And normally chaos is a very logical player. But look at how wrong all of his reasoning has been this game. And I mean would town chaos really freak out and immediately omgus jackal/palmar/myself for voting him? It seemed like a panicked overreaction when normally as town chaos is very level headed. If that weren't enough look at palmar's very good analysis of him here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=66#1311One last thing. Why did jackal die last night? Was anyone else getting blue vibes from him? I wasn't. Had he been especially active or provided any strong analysis? No. So why was he shot instead of someone like Curu or you barundar? Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 08:52 Jackal58 wrote:Actually fuck it. I was saving this for the end of the night phase but Chaos has not called me scummy this game. The only other times he has done this is because he was on the scum team. I know it sounds lame but he's so damn consistent at it it's funny. I have been watching to see if he chose one of the three main targets over the others but his votes are off in the toolies. Ya I'll lynch Chaos. But I do know he is at work. Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 08:29 Jackal58 wrote:
Hi iGrok
Pyo
Palmar
RayzorFlash
nard
chaos13
Barundar
BrownBear
One is a townie but I don't know which. Jackal was convinced chaos was scum and 100% would have followed along with palmar's plan to lynch chaos today. Pretty good motivation to kill someone. I am hunting you down chaos!
You say that my reasoning is wrong and illogical. Okay. How does that mean I'm scum? I've ended up being really busy this week, unfortunately. I'm also not very good at wading through the mess of the first day or two and figuring things out. Rather than just stating that my reasoning is poor, I would like you to explain exactly how it proves me to be mafia. Town can have off games too, and not be as good at analyzing.
What would mafia have to lose from killing Jackal? The medics were focused on Foolishness (hopefully) so they had a good chance of getting a proper kill on Jackal. He's also a strong player, and it provided a perfect opportunity for one of the townies suspicious of me, or a mafia member to frame me and cast me in a suspicious light for it.
What do you say Mig? Will you actually go into some detail in your analysis, or will you just leave it at blanket statements?
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What I saw Palmar doing was causing chaos and disrupting the town. I am completely unable to focus in a game dominated by spam and random accusations.
Concerning you/chaoser/foolish, I explained why I felt you guys were scummy. Then I went to bed, which is why I disappeared. Cast doubt on the only players doing analysis? That is a blatant lie and I am very unimpressed that you just tried to use it in a case against me. If you really think it's true, then go back through this entire thread and make a list of every single time a player has made an analysis. Spoiler that list. Then filter my posts and quote every time that I accuse one of them or cast doubt on them for doing analysis. If I accuse every single player who has done analysis in this game, then you are correct. Your accusation of me is flimsy to begin with, and you just broke it in half with that statement.
Yeah, I've got one or two original things against you. Check out this post, which you can read near the top of page 81.
"Mig, if only you put as much effort into scumhunting as you did into defending yourself, we probably would have won this game already. About 90% of your defense on the past page and a half consists of some variation of "What? Your analysis is wrong, how could you even think that. chaos13 is scum." You fail to properly address any of the points against you, and you fail to convince me that you are not mafia."
Nobody else had picked up on that yet. It's not a lot, I know, but it's more evidence for me to feel comfortable with lynching you. There's no point in me repeating the same things that everybody has said.
Now until you actually explain how my actions have been scummy, I'm going to quit responding to you, because all we're doing is cluttering up the thread. If you truly feel that I am mafia and worthy of a lynch, then use my posts as evidence. Go into detail. This post was getting better, but it was still weak. I know from playing games with you as town that you really know how to dig into a player's posts, and I haven't seen any of that happening.
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On August 26 2011 02:31 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 20:56 chaos13 wrote:
Oh and in case nobody has realized, we are at LYLO right now.
Seems strange with 21 players left, but 6 mafia vs. 15 town with 3 kills each night. If we don't get mafia today it's only a matter of time til it's done. Um... that's not LYLO... we have at least 2 days of no mafia lynches before lylo - not saying that we can afford to keep killing town, but there's no need to panic. "it's only a matter of time til it's done" was just as true before the game even began... Are you trying to blue-fish?
Oh derp lol.
That wasn't blue fishing, it was overthinking.
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Well Mig is now confirmed scum to me because I did not visit anyone last night, or the night before. I'm a vanilla townie, so there is no way I could visit anyone. If there is anyone who thinks they should believe Mig's claim, ask yourself why he wouldn't reveal something like this
On August 26 2011 19:09 xtfftc wrote:
Mig, who did you track on Night 1?
If he's going to be lynched you would think it would be a good idea to give town as much information as possible. Instead he forgets to do this and focuses solely on me.
Also if he was so sure I was mafia and he actually tracked me to a dead player last night why wouldn't he have said so earlier?
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EPT
