EPTWorld at War 2 Mafia - Page 3
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
Here's what confuses me so much: On YM I have a lurker -or- doesn't-care-just-wants-to-nuke read on him post-wise. Action-wise I'm leaning towards scum. He antis two missiles headed at sandroba without even knowing he is Town. Since there will obviously be many less antimissiles than actual missiles, they are not something you can just throw away like that especially two to save one person who isn't confirmed Town. He fires a nuke with no reason. On sandroba I have a definite scum read on his posts because of scumslip and how obsessed he is with pushing himself as obvtown. He also paints another as obvtown who turns out to be Cult (although more Town aligned Cult it appears). And says YM is obvtown. Either he really wants to put all his faith into name claims or he is clearing people way too easily. It should not be that easy to confirm Town unless you have information that no one else has. Also he's apparently a zombie but we don't know what that means yet. Action-wise, scum scum scum. Whole spiel about not nuking and having Town policy and then nukes GMarshal when it seems he can fly under the radar doing it (after several other people have already drawn huge attention launching nukes). Normally I'd peg these two as connected and, considering sandroba's clearing of sinani too, possibly all Cult members. sandroba puts a bit of meaningless pressure on YM then instantly backs off when a semi-valid reason appears to go back to claiming him Town. Looked like classic "I'm going to try to make it look like we're not connected but not actually put on any pressure." HOWEVER, the thing that makes no sense to me is that sandroba claimed nuke immunity and yet YM shot down two nukes headed at him. If they were really in contact with each other then there's no reason for YM to do that and draw attention to himself. So either they are not in contact, or they are restricted from telling each other about their abilities, or sandroba is not actually nuke immune. I can't see any other reason for YM to waste two antis like that when they would've done absolutely nothing except prevent radiation. It's tempting to just say that they're both playing extremely recklessly and headstrong and not scum because they radiate so many scum actions that it's absurd. But that line of thought only works if you assume Town is extremely herp derp dumb and Mafia is smart. If everyone can act so callously without consequences, it creates an environment where Mafia don't have to hide and can do whatever the hell they want; when everyone's giving off scum actions, then they lose any meaning for alignment analysis. Bad environment for Town since it just becomes a random lynch luck game except Mafia can influence votes away from themselves. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On July 08 2011 23:48 syllogism wrote: Look at the time line of sinani206 claiming Leon Trot-Ze and Sandroba claiming UMADIMIR LENEN. Pretty impressive improvisation if he managed to decide it was a good spot to fake claim and come up with a reasonable fake claim in less than 2 minutes. Plus him being Zombie Lenin makes sense. So much time wasted on people who are quite likely to be town at this point I don't think going off name or role claims is any good at determining innocence or guilt. I would rather rely on actual post and action analysis. Under this system scum can act as scummy and anti-Town as they want as long as their name claim is believed. Drazerk made up some bullshit claim and everyone instantly believed him. I despise the playstyle of clearing Town or pinning Mafia simply based on flavor. Honestly I don't know at this point. I'm going to go read through the thread again and focus on other people because I'm really starting to tunnel on just this issue and sandroba. I've thoroughly expressed my opinion on this matter. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
Relying on name and role claims is just bad Town play. You even have a firsthand example in Drazerk. Sure you might get some relevant information but all it takes is one or two scum slipping through and becoming confirmed Town and you're going to have hell on lylo/mylo. | ||
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If someone is endangered of being lynched then we can get a claim but don't fall into the trap of relying on just that to prove innocence or guilt. | ||
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On July 09 2011 00:12 Zona wrote: We also don't seem to have an explanation on what happened to sinani's nuke on JeeJee. An extra life or other ability? He claims he antimissiled it himself. Which is either true on his part or smart scum play. Since antimissiles seem to be anonymous (unless someone has an ability that lets you see that info), we have no way to know. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
Axis, Allies, zombies, Conspirator (maybe not, u dead), aliens, cult, and whatever the fuck else Caller has put into this game, hold hands and shout with me: WHERE MY DAY POST?!??! ##Vote: Caller + Show Spoiler + jk Caller you da best plz no modkill have funs at work | ||
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Canada2817 Posts
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More tomorrow. Tired. btw look at this and Closed Casket Mafia for why I said confirming anyone as Town or Mafia based on their claim/flavour is just BAD TOWN PLAY. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On July 09 2011 16:29 sandroba wrote: Also JeeJee is mafia, let's lynch him. If people fail to acknowlegde it I'll provide analysis as soon as I'm sober again. I'm not listening to anything you say until YM and you flip. You two are definitely connected and I'm more convinced that Mafia has adopted the "this is so blatant they can't possibly think our scum actions mean we're scum." One of you dies by nuke and one of you dies by lynch today. If YM flips scum and you flip Town then I'll consider your analysis. You were right on about Palmar so I'll give you that, but the fact that he was a third party and not actual scum detracts some cred from you. I wouldn't be totally convinced that history means you are right about everything else. I suspected Palmar, sinani, and you the most and so far I'm 2/2 on non-Town with you remaining to flip. That doesn't mean I think my analysis is foolproof though. None of the people I suspected happened to be Mafia yet so I don't think I've pegged their play style yet. If YM and you flip red though I'm going hard after anyone who has been trying to hide in plain sight. | ||
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Canada2817 Posts
On July 09 2011 15:38 sandroba wrote: I don't know why he anti nuked me. At this point I can see how suspicious I might be since he protected me. Feel free to nuke or lynch me as you see fit, cuz I don't want to waste any more of town's time discussing me. If nuking me would satisfy you I advise it since it's unlikely scum would waste a anti-nuke on me knowing that I'm immortal. But anyway, you guys know what's best. Whenever I'm sober again (~24hours) I'm gonna post analysis nailing most of the scum team. And nuking you would most certainly not satisfy me. You claimed nuke immunity yourself. Good job trying to fish out some more nukes and chaos. I say we nuke YM and lynch sandroba. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
It might take more than one nuke to kill YM. I propose we launch three max (even that's pushing it a bit. Maybe just two). If he still doesn't die we lynch one of him or sandroba and hope there's a Vig to take care of the other at night. | ||
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Canada2817 Posts
The only thing I couldn't understand was why you and YM were acting so action magnet-y. But neither of you drew much heat on day one so I'm convinced Mafia had at least some of their members try to hide in plain sight. Judging by how you two avoided significant lynch attention I'd say it almost worked except for chaos's flip. | ||
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DO. NOT. RANDOM. NUKE. Wait for the flips. PLEASE. The only nukes we should be firing right now are at YM or sandroba. YM and sandroba on the offchance that you are Town then give us your thoughts and analysis. In my eyes you are both dead men right now but if you are Town you will want to contribute something before you go. I am not going to give two shits about your analysis if you flip scum because I don't want to deal with WIFOM but I want these thoughts from both of you: If both of you flip green, who do you suspect and why? If you flip green and the other guy flips red, who do you suspect and why? I don't care about your analysis if you both flip red. But you can provide that too for shits and giggles if you want. I also don't care about your analysis if you flip red. Shits and giggles welcome. Also if you two are not scum then do not fire your missiles. I see you've already fired one sandroba (although without the ##, so who knows if it counts) but at least it's at the other suspected guy. As for the mass nameclaim thing, I'm going to come out and say that my power changes based on faction members dying. I'm sure scum has some similar mechanic. I tried to be as vague as possible in saying that there are probably anti nameclaim mechanisms but I'm going to come out and say it straight up now. I suspect there are some win conditions attached to the states of factions as well. Mataza got extra powers if a certain name died. I do not like the idea of name claiming but if you all agree to it then so be it. | ||
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On July 09 2011 17:52 syllogism wrote: I'm inclined to agree with Jeejee being mafia after seeing his town play in CCM I've followed that game pretty closely (and boosted my e-peen with it). JeeJee was Town for one day (he subbed in). And it was at lylo where you are forced into giving your utmost full analysis and thoughts. You don't care if you draw heat to yourself. You MUST compel your fellow players because knowing your own role is the single biggest advantage you have. No matter what playstyle you choose you have to be extremely vocal and extremely convicted at lylo. I'm not saying take JeeJee off your radar. But let's see these flips and what YM/sandroba think. | ||
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You also said you'd defend yourself then haven't said anything sandroba. Explain your actions. I'm inclined to believe you are a zombie because your posting went from extremely opinionated to extremely mellow right after the zombie alien crap and then heated up again when no one seemed to want to lynch you just for being a zombie (which I agree with, we don't know wtf zombies do). I asked: If both of you flip green, who do you suspect and why? If you flip green and the other guy flips red, who do you suspect and why? I don't care about your analysis if you both flip red. But you can provide that too for shits and giggles if you want. I also don't care about your analysis if you flip red. Shits and giggles welcome. Give these thoughts. Yes I'm tunneling you. As it is suspected lynch targets throw the wagon onto someone else way too easily. This town has no focus. Putting pressure on someone means nothing. This is a bad bad bad Town environment. If you actually ever make a compelling case that doesn't revolve around "lol stop tunneling me" or "lol I nameclaimed" or "lol if I was Mafia I wouldn't be playing this obvious" then I'll consider it. This fake day post thing has merit because either YM is acting like a thoughtless impulsive player (and that's damn good acting) or I really doubt his ability to come up with a fake name claim. Then again I doubt his ability to be able to think of something like an Axis campaign that fakes the name either. This is like reverse OMGUS now...you suck so much you can't be Mafia. If Town is convinced you guys are innocent then I'll take my attention off you two. I have more players I suspect but my reasons for tunneling you now are that if you are not killed: -We establish that players who randomly fire nukes at will, who fire their nukes when in danger of being lynched, and who have either provided nothing in terms of analysis (YM) or obsession with clearing themselves as obvtown (sandroba) are not under serious pressure to be lynched. -Mafia can play as reckless as they want, nuke everyone, and contribute no analysis except trying to clear themselves. This is like lurking where you can't get a read on anyone except worse because Mafia can kill people while doing it. I stated earlier that I -hate- lurkers. This is because of the effect that Mafia can easily hide among them if there are enough and become more or less undetectable. This is a hundred times worse because they hide in plain sight while freely using their nukes and everyone is like "oh naww, that's too dumb to be Mafia." Even if you two are possibly Town you're hurting Town with your behavior. I asked you to stop nuking but clearly you're both still acting in self interest because you think you're being lynched. And acting in self interest is not pro Town behavior. | ||
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On July 10 2011 00:34 sandroba wrote: And I'm not focusing on clearing myself quite the contrary. I've done 2 thourough analysis so far and have adapted to new information, while you have done nothing but midlessly tunnel me. Also point me to your analysis where you identify me pushing mafia objectives or behaving in such way that proves I'm scum. Agressive and reckless =/= scum my friend and since you were able to point out citi.zen was mafia in CCM you have no excuse for thinking that. Lynching me and YM will provide nothing besides waste towns time. You are pushing scum objectives, good job to you if you are scum. You're creating a terrible Town atmosphere where no one has to think or act rationally or carefully. That's as anti-Town as you can get without actively taking action against people. I don't need to convince you. You still won't answer my questions. So now it remains to be seen what everyone else thinks. | ||
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On July 10 2011 01:07 sandroba wrote: Do you not see the rational discussion we are having here? Also where is your nameclaim? rofl you're trying to ask me questions while not giving a shit about anything I ask you. So I'll give you the same response you've been giving me. I'm obvtown for other reasons. Stop tunneling me go focus on someone else. Start this nameclaim game and we're going to end up in the same situation as Closed Casket where someone gets confirmed Town when they shouldn't and Town loses lylo. Notice how I said confirming a Town who really isn't is pretty much equal to a loss on lylo? Closed Casket proves it. As I said my power also changes with faction deaths. Some are undeniably more useful than others. But I don't want to start fishing out names because I don't care about my power since trying to further that goal is just going to create more confusion. Someone else must have something similar too; if I could trust people to act unified as Town and ignore special power shifts/win cons I'd be on board. But we can't even trust people not to nuke like crazy animals. Oh wait I'm not giving you the same response you gave me. I actually answered your question with reasons. Care to do the same? GM's actions are loudly Town to me. Trying to save Mataza when he himself was in danger; he realizes that furthering Town's goals is more important than his own self interest. IMO Mafia would be more obsessed with self interest unless he knew Mataza was a scum with a more important power but that's out of the question since he flipped green. OpZ I have no clue. He's a lurker and now comes in guns blazing. I'm inclined to believe he's tunneling dec to provoke a response and I didn't really like dec's response. Then again they might just be tunnel fucking each other. Caller you said OriginalName made a minor mistake. Can you elaborate? On July 09 2011 23:22 Caller wrote: blues and greens are pretty much assigned at will. don't read too much into those. other than that my cohost has made no major mistakes. he will be soundly punished for the minor ones when i have time. i was not expecting to have this work taken home. should be cleared up by tonight, but i will likely still be able to account for the nukez and stuff. It's definitely odd that the day deaths were just names and a bit of flavor while everything about chaos's role was plastered into his death post. Is this intentional or a difference in posting strategy by the two hosts? | ||
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