EPTWorld at War 2 Mafia
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
We already seem torn on how to use the nukes. In most town bandwagons there’s going to be at least a few scum so the lynched will probably fire some nukes. I kind of like sandroba’s suggestion but I think only in advantageous situations where a good scumread can be obtained (ie if we lynch a scum and he flips red). It’s much harder to get reliable scumtells on a flipped green. Still let’s not be too hesitant to use nukes. The advantages the scum have in Mafia games are that: 1. They start with more information than anyone else 2. They have unified KP With the nuke mechanic giving Town a share of that second advantage. We just have to figure out the best way to use it first. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
[QUOTE]On July 05 2011 18:18 prplhz wrote: Mafia has measly 1 kp this game,[/QUOTE] How do you know Mafia has KP of 1? It wasn't in the OP and it's a closed setup.? | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
Mafia have more information than anyone right now so they may agree to follow just because they don't see their own members near the top of the list and want to do so to force out all the nukes of the Town. Letting them see the player list order now and knowing what it implies can only be used to their advantage. Randomize it and introduce some doubt into their decision making. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
What do you do if many people start claiming they have no nukes? From the first game it appears many of the blue roles had no nukes. You risk outing some power roles and may end up killing them if you are fanatic about lynching those who refuse to aim their nukes where you want/have no nukes left. Still I like the idea as long as its feasibly enforceable and enough people get on board. If you have too much opposition it's just going to create more chaos. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On July 05 2011 20:01 sandroba wrote: @curu We can confortably say that most players have nukes, otherwise there would be no conspirator and the threshold on radiation wouldn't be "fairly high". It doesnt matter if mafia holds nukes because as soon as they use them they get lynched and get their nukes shot down. You are assuming powerroles do not have nukes, which is based on nothing at all (last game some most people had nukes, regardless of role. People that didn't have them were vanilla/mafia/blue so nothing can be said about that). Having someone randomize is exactly the same or pehaps worse than following the list, since said person can choose the order and has no way to prove that said list was actually randomize. Again this does not matter at all, I don't know why you keep bringing this up. Quote directly taken from last game: USA (5 nukes,2 anti-nukes) Russia ( 6 nukes) UK (1 anti-missile defense nuke, 0 nukes, masoned to Canada) France (watcher, 0 nukes) China (3 nukes,PGO) India (1 anti-nuke missile defense system, 1 nuke) Pakistan ( 1 nuke) NK ( 2 nukes,sneak attacks) Italy (2 nukes) Germany (3 nukes) Japan (6 nukes,1 anti Mafia GF) Colombia (SK/immune to nk and RC/steal 1 nuke/anti-nuke per night or nk) Sweden (1 nuke shield,can block 1 hit at night, mafia) Egypt (medic [Jailkeeper], 0 nukes) Israel (2 nukes, mafia) Canada (masoned to UK, 1 nuke) Brazil (mafia role blocker, 0 nukes) Antarctica (Veteran that can take 1 nuke, 0 nukes) UN Security Council (Sane|Insane|Paranoid Cop(Ambiguous Cop), 0 nukes) Australian Survivor (upside down world, anyone who nukes you has nukes sent back to them, has 0 nukes but can NK once, immune to one NK and can be lynched,show up as Innocent to alignment checks) Iraq - Vigilante (0 nukes) Mexico - Vengeful Townie (1 nuke) Looks to me like no power role had nukes. I don't know if that's the case this game but last one pretty much only the Vanilla Townies and Mafia had Nukes. You're right about the list thing that there's no way to know who truly randomized it. Maybe Caller can do that (just asking for him to randomize a list, shouldn't be a big deal)? Still it's not a huge deal, just chipping away at anything Mafia can use that we can't. | ||
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Curu
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Curu
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@Drazerk: The Veteran claiming doesn't make sense to me...how do we test them? The only way is to have Vigi shoot them or to have someone nuke them, and both are extremely counterproductive to Town (not to mention wasting that extra life they got anyways). I agree with GMarshall, between Gunnerside and the no-nuke policy we can effectively neuter the Mafia from using their nukes until they're all gone. ##:Operation Gunnerside | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
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Curu
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Curu
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That said IMO lurkers hurt Town more than anything else. With a full active playerbase Mafia has to be active meaning more chances for scumslips and important information leaking out. If they can just hide in the lurkers, we have nothing to go on. I'd like to lure out Cthsazsa, Zona , ~OpZ~ or gtrsrs as they haven't posted -anything- at all. Looks like there's one other for Zona so let's get that started. ##Vote: Zona | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On July 06 2011 10:47 chaos13 wrote: ..you agree that he made a scum slip...and you vote for someone else. What the fuck? Willing to give the benefit of the doubt for now. If you notice, I'm the one that called him out on the scumslip first so believe me I'm putting weight into it. sandroba's been more active than most though and his posts actually have content in them. My vote on him hinged on what operation he voted for and the one he did choose didn't set off my alarms. Nothing is more dangerous than scum being able to hide amongst Townie lurkers so that's my modus operandi until all the lurkers start doing something useful. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On July 06 2011 10:55 sinani206 wrote: This post is scummy as fuck. It sounds like you and sandroba are both scum, and you screwed up by sharing his scumslip and now you want to come back and defend your ally. Why should your vote hinge (to use your word) on which operation he voted for? Your vote should be for the scummiest player. The whole lurker excuse is complete bullshit. ##Vote: sandroba I propose a nuke of Curu lol? Why would I even point out his scumslip if I didn't want to draw attention to it? How cute, you ignore all the accusations on you in this thread and instead try to divert attention on me with something completely stupid and baseless. Seems like you're in a hurried panic, hmm? My vote hinged on what operation he voted for because he had a whole argument formed based on Mafia's nukes being useless. If sandroba had gone against that whole line of argument he was making (and he was quite involved with it) then he would have appeared scummy as fuck. But he didn't. Instead you now appear scummy as fuck. Saying a lurker excuse is bullshit without providing any reasoning? Proposing to nuke me because I didn't lynch based on a scumslip that I FIRST POINTED OUT? If I had wanted that scumslip unavoided I wouldn't have posted anything about it. I still want to draw the lurkers out but I'd suggest everyone keeping a firm eye on you. | ||
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Curu
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On July 06 2011 11:08 sinani206 wrote: I acknowledge pressure votes of me in this thread, and that's why I'm accusing you. Note that the votes for me are pressure votes, not votes to kill me. What I'm saying is you are covering your mistake of pointing it out by not voting him now. I'm saying you made a mistake by pointing it out in the first place and want to correct it. There are other ways people can be scummy besides contradicting themselves. Just because sandroba didn't contradict himself doesn't mean he's clear at all. The lurker excuse was bullshit because you are using it to draw attention away from sandroba by choosing to lurker-hunt instead. You announce the scumslip on sandroba and then don't pressure him and make the excuse of wanting to find scum among lurkers. You could have just voted for sandroba, but you want to defend him because you are both scum. Ok explain one thing to me. Why did I point it out in the first place if we are both scum then? The whole bandwagon against sandroba is starting because of that scumslip. I POINTED OUT THAT SCUMSLIP. I'm not trying to back up and I'm not trying to cover my tracks. I drew attention to that scumslip because I wanted everyone to be aware of it. I just don't think it's as much grounds for serious pressuring yet based purely off of that. You STILL haven't posted anything explaining your scummy posting that's getting you pressured and instead try to draw attention to me. That's just creating more confusion for Town. You're looking scummier by the second. I'm not trying to draw attention away from sandroba. I'm going in with guns blazing. Every single one of my posts at him has mentioned his scumslip. I just don't think he's shown to be more dangerous (yet) than many other people. You very much included. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On July 06 2011 11:34 sinani206 wrote: I KNOW THAT YOU POINTED OUT THAT SCUMSLIP. I've said that multiple times. What I'm saying is that you realize how big of a deal that is and don't want to lose a teammate day one. I'd like an example of my "scummy posting that's getting me pressured" so I can explain it. Is that what you want? What do you mean "more dangerous?" If he's scum, you vote for him. Period. It's obviously better to lynch him than someone else who might be town but isn't playing well. Sometimes people forget that town wins when all of the scum are dead. If sandroba is scum, you kill him. Uhh, go look at the accusations against you. Don't pretend you haven't seen them, you acknowledged that you were being pressured but didn't post anything to explain yourself. If I didn't want to lose a "teammate" day one I never would have mentioned that scumslip in the first place. Honestly what advantage would that give to me? Explain it. If we're both scum, what advantage would me pointing out his scumslip give me? Town cred? I could only gain that if I followed up immediately with a full-out conviction to lynch him and the lynch went through. I don't know that he's scum. He has a scumslip but he gave his reasoning for that. You, on the other hand, have done nothing but try to redirect attention to me when there's pressure on you. Even then, you haven't brought up one legitimate reason against me besides that I pointed out a scumslip but am not foaming-at-mouth lynching the person responsible behind it. I explained my reasoning. Hell, sandroba even explained his reasoning for the slip. The only person who hasn't done anything constructive is you. I'm done arguing with you. We're just distracting the Town now and you don't seem to want to throw up anything constructive besides rehashing your non-points. | ||
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Curu
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On July 06 2011 11:50 sandroba wrote: I like that no one comented ON MY HUGE FUCKING CASE on palmar that proves he is scum, then vote for me for something I already explained. First of all you are calling that scum slip (it's a mistake btw, based on previous games knowledge) before we even know how many fucking kp mafia actually has. Good job. Also anyone that agreed to my plan should be voting to lynch palmar regardless since he broke the no nukes rule, shorttened the day and possibly took away an extra life from another player for no reason. He didn't even follow his own plan. God knows if he has nukes or not. Use your head and vote for palmar. He is 100% scum. I don't like metagame arguments because there's so much WIFOM possible there's it's a clusterfuck. The main argument I see against Palmar is that he fired a supposed dud when nothing good could come out of it (either he hits a Vet and costs them a life or nothing happens). He claims ignorance of the rules but it's pretty apparent IMO in the OP. He does look pretty scummy since I can't find anything to gain for Town from his actions and only possible losses. Right now I find sinani much more scummy though. And I still want these lurkers to come out and contribute something. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
With Caller stating that extra lives do absorb nukes it's best to proceed with lynches being the only surefire way to off someone. It's nice that we have that "second lynch" but it's far from a sure thing with multiple lives, antimissiles, players that may be nuke immune, and anything else devious that Caller can think of. Right now I feel like the argument falls into whether we think a policy lynch is worth giving scum an easy bandwagon to hitch on to. Of course we need to enforce the policy if we want to use that policy. Mataza's weak defense and actions show that he is either: 1) Really reckless Which is terrible for whichever side he may be on or 2) Unafraid to be lynched or nuked due to his role I don't think there's a lynch survivor power as that's pretty ridiculous so I'd really like to see what Mataza's actual motive is. Ciryandor's defense is either a scumtell or a noobtell and both are pretty bad for Town. Once again, I'd give benefit of the doubt for now. Remember that Palmar essentially did the same thing Mataza is doing now except he claimed his was a dud while Mataza has not done so. His actions have even less motive though as they couldn't possibly do anything but hurt town whereas Mataza may actually think sandroba is scum/Conspirator. sinani still hasn't given any explanation for himself and everyone seems to have forgotten about him. To me his posting is the most scummy out of anyone but actions > words and we have two people right now who have launched nukes/duds. Whether or not to let the nuke on sandroba depends on the read that whoever has animissiles has gotten on him. If he is scum then surely one of his scumbuddies will save him unless they know he can take the hit. His biggest misstep so far has been that (thus far unconfirmed) scumslip and the rest of his posts have been either advocating his policy or tunneling Palmar and giving nothing on anyone else. ...and now we have even more of a clusterfuck with youngminii's nuke. Do we policy lynch him too? That's going to make reading scum even more difficult. I don't think this policy is going to work too well despite its good intentions. | ||
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Curu
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Curu
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JeeJee's post: On July 07 2011 02:39 JeeJee wrote: The fact that minii anti-nuked sandroba I think is a little bit odd. Think about what happened in WaW1, the only nukes that were shot down were aimed at mafia members (and I believe a mason). Why? If you're a townie, you don't know anything about anyone, and if you have any anti-nukes, they're in very limited supply. Why would you use them to save someone that you don't know is townie, when instead you can use them as self-defence, on someone you know is townie (yourself). Obviously mafia and masons can (and did) do so, because they know that they're saving a teammate. Just a thought... Has some really relevant points that all of you seem to be ignoring. Why would someone waste something as valuable as 2 antinukes when you don't even know the other guy's alignment? sandroba spends his entire time advocating his policy then goes ahead and nukes someone AGAINST HIS OWN POLICY. This blatant contradiction, coupled with his scumslip earlier and JeeJee's post make me strongly believe he is scum. But then again nothing in this game makes any fucking sense right now. | ||
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