EPTIf you are under fire, please defend yourself properly. I know that it is pretty difficult on day one, but saying nothing is the worst you can do.
##vote: Drazerk
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia IV - Page 10
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Xedat
Germany358 Posts
If you are under fire, please defend yourself properly. I know that it is pretty difficult on day one, but saying nothing is the worst you can do. ##vote: Drazerk | ||
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freeloader625
United States180 Posts
Ok so heres my observations so far. On June 18 2011 11:48 gtrsrs wrote: aprudds is out for blood don't back down bro i'm gonna go ahead and piggyback off that freeloader you got your free pass last game you freeloader. you know well enough by now that posts like this \/ accomplish nothing. so instead of posting this, why don't you make an analysis or contribute in some way Early post of game gtrsrs attacks me based on no evidence at all. In fact as apprudds pointed out, his post reeks of oxymoron, his attack is, “your post doesn’t help” when in fact his post doesn’t help either. So aggressive, but I understand why you would do this. You want me to speak up and post more. This would be a pro town play. On June 19 2011 10:07 gtrsrs wrote: okay i know i'm going to regret this if Drazerk flips scum but i think the logical thing to do for now is to remove your votes from Drazerk in my earlier post i said i was leaning to someone, and that person is Drazerk, but the point remains that Lord Vatti is suspiciously MIA. here's what potentially could happen: 1. Lord Vatti is townie without a role, saw that he didn't have a role, and afk'd out of the game. he will be modkilled. he could even be mafia but i doubt it. 2. the town votes for Drazerk on what can only be described as moderate-at-best suspicions. 2a. Drazerk flips townie. we're now down 2 townies and 0 mafia. it's as if 2 nights have passed (via 2 mafia kills) but we'll only have the info from 1 night's worth of night actions (if we even *have* any blues). 2b. Drazerk flips mafia. our hunches were correct. high five town. 2c. Drazerk flips power role. oh shit, his increased activity was because he's got a more prominent role. fuck our lives. 3. the town votes for Lord Vatti. since he was queued up to be modkilled, we lose nothing, and get a free night of investigations, potential saves, both, or neither. so with all that in mind, and noting that i'm NOT defending Drazerk (for he is my FoS at the moment, but it is an extremely weak FoS), i still think we should pile the votes onto Lord Vatti instead. best case scenario we kill an afk mafia. worst case scenario we lose a townie that we would have lost anyways. if we keep our votes on drazerk, the worst-case goes up to losing 2 townies. so with that in mind, i think that until Lord Vatti shows up to contribute, no matter how big of a hunch/suspicion we have of Drazerk, we should not vote him until we're all present. once Lord Vatti shows up i'm all for pressuring Drazerk, i just don't want to lose 2 townies on day 1 Then his attitude changes from attacking to “no vote” passive play right when Drazerk picks up some serious heat with 3 votes and with "better evidence" than he had to attack me. Mighty scummy. Why wouldn't you wait to see his response? This play, gtrsrs makes a bunch of posts but at the end contradicts himself without seeming like it, therefore you just made your prior posts worthless. You seemed so out for blood earlier but now you don’t want any of it once drazerk is mentioned. You don't even wait for his defense. Why not? Weren't you pushing for all townies to speak up? Contradicting plays are usually what scum do, which in last game pushed the votes out and scored town the GF with a very close vote by one. You try to justify your change to passive play, while trying to convince all townies to do the same. You claim to be not defending when actually defending and buying time. You first wanted to attack players for information, but now you try to say we should back off, cut our losses instead and be completely passive. Er what? So are you trying to get information out of players or are you trying to seem like you are trying to get information from players? Typical scum play is early on pushing hard to seem pro town and gain credit, but then later on try to convince players to instead to do the anti town play without town realizing it. In this case the the antitown play would be not voting potential scum drazerk to see his reaction and do nothing instead. He hasn't even posted anything yet! Now lets assume we all vote to lynch Drazerk. At the very least he'll start posting frantically and we all gain something. This is what you wanted right? Yet you seems so fast to defend him. If he flips green we made the wrong choice but at least we have effectively increased our chance to lynch red by having a list of potential suspects based on voting patterns and bandwagon jumpers. WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT THIS LIST? Why try so hard to prevent it before it even starts? That is of course unless you already know hes red and want to stop a red lynch before it goes further. You wanted people to talk early game for “information” by pressuring and now you try to shy town away from that very same tactic of pressure and play passive. I just don't get it. Only logic left is protecting buddy scum from getting any more pressure and before he scum slips. So you want information and all for pressuring, but as long as its not on drazerk? Ok lets assume we did what you asked and everyone just voted for modkill right now. Then Day 2 comes. What have we learned? Er nothing I suppose? It's like Day 1, except we're down modkills and mafia hit. 2 modkills 1 mafia hit = 10 players remaining with 3 scum while town has learned absolutely nothing. We have no list of bandwagon jumpers. We have no Drazerk response because he didn't need to. It really would feel like Day 1 wouldn't it? That my friends is as anti-town as a play gets. Town gains nothing while losing 3 members. Conclusion: gtrsrs It's so obvious you are SCUM. You try to make fast early plays, set a solid "leading" presence, try so hard to seem pro town, get all that protown credit, pretending to make good protown plays then tell us to all be completely passive instead and hope no one notices while saving your buddy at the same time. That would be ideal for you wouldn't it? I think that you just convinced me who to vote for. Should you flip red then drazerk has a high chance of being red as well since coincidentally both your playstyles have changed and your sudden change in attitude once Drazerk was under pressure. ##Vote gtrsrs | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
Second, I'm also suspicious of gtrsrs for rather similar reasons. Something to add though is about this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 19 2011 10:07 gtrsrs wrote: okay i know i'm going to regret this if Drazerk flips scum but i think the logical thing to do for now is to remove your votes from Drazerk in my earlier post i said i was leaning to someone, and that person is Drazerk, but the point remains that Lord Vatti is suspiciously MIA. here's what potentially could happen: 1. Lord Vatti is townie without a role, saw that he didn't have a role, and afk'd out of the game. he will be modkilled. he could even be mafia but i doubt it. 2. the town votes for Drazerk on what can only be described as moderate-at-best suspicions. 2a. Drazerk flips townie. we're now down 2 townies and 0 mafia. it's as if 2 nights have passed (via 2 mafia kills) but we'll only have the info from 1 night's worth of night actions (if we even *have* any blues). 2b. Drazerk flips mafia. our hunches were correct. high five town. 2c. Drazerk flips power role. oh shit, his increased activity was because he's got a more prominent role. fuck our lives. 3. the town votes for Lord Vatti. since he was queued up to be modkilled, we lose nothing, and get a free night of investigations, potential saves, both, or neither. so with all that in mind, and noting that i'm NOT defending Drazerk (for he is my FoS at the moment, but it is an extremely weak FoS), i still think we should pile the votes onto Lord Vatti instead. best case scenario we kill an afk mafia. worst case scenario we lose a townie that we would have lost anyways. if we keep our votes on drazerk, the worst-case goes up to losing 2 townies. so with that in mind, i think that until Lord Vatti shows up to contribute, no matter how big of a hunch/suspicion we have of Drazerk, we should not vote him until we're all present. once Lord Vatti shows up i'm all for pressuring Drazerk, i just don't want to lose 2 townies on day 1 He makes a decent argument but it seems very uncharacteristic.... he says that he was leaning to Drazerk being on the scummy side. But, remember last game? gtrsrs was suspicious of iGrok from the get-go. And he tunnelled him mercilessly, and was very forward about his suspicions. But here he's saying "I've been suspicious of Drazerk but I wasn't going to say anything" which is extremely unlike how he played last game. Also, he's suspicious of him but he's not going to vote him? That, again, seems unlike gtrsrs' play last game. There is a decent case that gtrsrs and Drazerk are both mafia, as freeloader put forward. HOWEVER. The case is by no means 100%. Both could quite easily be green. Or, one could be town and the other mafia. That considered, gtrsrs is a much better townie than Drazerk. If they ARE both green than I'd much rather lose Drazerk than gtrsrs. Also, it seems slightly more likely (to me, anyways) that Draz is mafia while gtrsrs is town, rather than vice versa. My vote is already on Drazerk, originally only to pressure him into speaking substantively. It's gotten quite close to the deadline and he hasn't. So, I think that we should lynch Drazerk today, and see from there. Especially, freeloader, I think that you should change your vote from gtrsrs - if Draz flips red, than we can target gtrsrs (though if he flips green it doesn't mean that gtrsrs is definitely in the clear). | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
Don't trust Gtrsrs (yes i know your on my side kinda ) when i flip Green, Which I will he will claim he knew it and try to abuse that town cred for his own good later in the game He's no where near as ruthless as the last game he's Either a power role trying to stay back or Scum Also Alderan is still lurking so be careful | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
##Unvote: Lord Vatti ##Vote: gtrsrs | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:46 freeloader625 wrote: Early post of game gtrsrs attacks me based on no evidence at all. In fact as apprudds pointed out, his post reeks of oxymoron, his attack is, “your post doesn’t help” when in fact his post doesn’t help either. So aggressive, but I understand why you would do this. You want me to speak up and post more. This would be a pro town play. That isn't oxymoron. At best that's irony. | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On June 19 2011 17:46 freeloader625 wrote: Now lets assume we all vote to lynch Drazerk. At the very least he'll start posting frantically and we all gain something. This is what you wanted right? Yet you seems so fast to defend him. If he flips green we made the wrong choice but at least we have effectively increased our chance to lynch red by having a list of potential suspects based on voting patterns and bandwagon jumpers. WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT THIS LIST? Why try so hard to prevent it before it even starts? That is of course unless you already know hes red and want to stop a red lynch before it goes further. You wanted people to talk early game for “information” by pressuring and now you try to shy town away from that very same tactic of pressure and play passive. I just don't get it. Only logic left is protecting buddy scum from getting any more pressure and before he scum slips. This is bad reasoning. Mafia have no reason to go along with a voting bandwagon on day 1 unless by random circumstance one of their own get targeted, in which case they might drive a bandwagon against someone else. Notice how not a single mafia voted for freeloader day 1 in the last game? If anything mafia will do their best to lay low day 1 voting for nobody in particular unless they can't undo a random bandwagon on one of their own. If that happens they'll probably end up bussing him. My point here is that regardless of who ends up getting lynched today, even if they flip green, those that voted for that person doesn't necessarily include mafia. | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On June 19 2011 22:35 Drazerk wrote: If for what ever reason you decide not to kill me and waste a townie ... ##Unvote: Lord Vatti ##Vote: gtrsrs This is a very interesting development. I'm going to have to think about this... | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 19 2011 23:18 Pyo wrote: This is bad reasoning. Mafia have no reason to go along with a voting bandwagon on day 1 unless by random circumstance one of their own get targeted, in which case they might drive a bandwagon against someone else. Notice how not a single mafia voted for freeloader day 1 in the last game? If anything mafia will do their best to lay low day 1 voting for nobody in particular unless they can't undo a random bandwagon on one of their own. If that happens they'll probably end up bussing him. My point here is that regardless of who ends up getting lynched today, even if they flip green, those that voted for that person doesn't necessarily include mafia. Infact I see it as more the people that DON'T vote for me as more mafia as they know ill Flip green as so let town do their dirty work | ||
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Pyo
United States738 Posts
On June 19 2011 23:25 Drazerk wrote: Infact I see it as more the people that DON'T vote for me as more mafia as they know ill Flip green as so let town do their dirty work What really doesn't make sense to me is why you would choose to martyr yourself. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Either you're an idiot who doesn't know how to read/count or there's something odd going on. I haven't figured out which. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
Also im a idiot I have established this throughout this game | ||
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Xedat
Germany358 Posts
I also think his defense is half decent. I actually would like to hear what gtrsrs has to say to the people voting for him. To me it looked like Pyo's first vote on Drazerk was to make the game a bit more livelier and I voted for Drazerk because he didn't respond for that. Right now I don't think that Drazerk is too scummy anymore. I will change my vote to gtrsrs, let's see who will defend him and what his defense is. ##unvote: Drazerk ##vote: gtrsrs | ||
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CjrNinja
Australia223 Posts
Gtrsrs' personality change from a fearless tunneling townie to a passive, uncommitted scum is not unnoticed by me. Gtrsrs: If you think Drazerk is the scummiest so far, then fucking vote for him. There is no 100% certainty on day 1. By lynching a modkill, the day 2 certainty for lynching a scum will be no closer to 100% then it is today. ##Unvote: supersoft ##Vote: gtrsrs | ||
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aprudds
Canada144 Posts
I would like to draw attention to the fact that Alderan STILL hasn't posted anything other than, "Imma jump on da bandwagon broz." He starts posts after an inactive list is put up, says this Keep in mind guys we're less than 24 hours in, I mean, I just woke up. Just like last game (I think almost all of us were in), a list of people who are posting very generic fluff and not helping the town is much more helpful than an inactive list. condemning the inactive list, then HOURS later comes in with this Hoping Vatti comes and provides something useful. ##Vote: Lord Vatti Until I see a case against someone else it's the only logical place for a vote. He reeks of scum. Within 2 posts he contradicts himself a does a 180 on his position and then slides into the darkness. He's trying to pull exactly what Lafali pulled last game. About the case with the voting patterns, they are bound to change since the game is much smaller this time. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On June 20 2011 00:05 CjrNinja wrote: Well, it looks like supersoft hasn't come back yet. I'm taking my vote off him and onto gtrsrs. His plan to pile all our votes and waste them on a modkill, negating ANY possibility of getting a mafia today and effectively turning day 2 into another random lynch day 1 is the scummiest thing i've seen so far. Gtrsrs' personality change from a fearless tunneling townie to a passive, uncommitted scum is not unnoticed by me. Gtrsrs: If you think Drazerk is the scummiest so far, then fucking vote for him. There is no 100% certainty on day 1. By lynching a modkill, the day 2 certainty for lynching a scum will be no closer to 100% then it is today. ##Unvote: supersoft ##Vote: gtrsrs haha, now I am back, so you may put your vote back on me if you wish. I don't know what to say about gtrsrs... I agree with him, that we shouldn't randomlynch on day1 in general... mhh difficult situation. If we had a DT for sure, I'd also say, we better lynch a lurker/afkler... But since we cannot be sure about that... From another point of view: If he was mafia, he shouldn't be interested in lynching a person that's afk. Best case for them is, if we lynch one of us who is contributing. So I think this position of him to lynch someone who probably gets modkilled doesn't convince me. A more valid point is his passiveness... How much time is left until nighttime? | ||
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aprudds
Canada144 Posts
On June 20 2011 00:21 supersoft wrote: haha, now I am back, so you may put your vote back on me if you wish. I don't know what to say about gtrsrs... I agree with him, that we shouldn't randomlynch on day1 in general... mhh difficult situation. If we had a DT for sure, I'd also say, we better lynch a lurker/afkler... But since we cannot be sure about that... From another point of view: If he was mafia, he shouldn't be interested in lynching a person that's afk. Best case for them is, if we lynch one of us who is contributing. So I think this position of him to lynch someone who probably gets modkilled doesn't convince me. A more valid point is his passiveness... How much time is left until nighttime? Can you be more firm in your future posts? And since you came back what do you think of treadmill? Do you still think he's suspicious? | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
pretty funny how strong your behavior changed from the last game when you were mafia :D Is this a mindgame or are you really townie this time? | ||
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aprudds
Canada144 Posts
On June 20 2011 00:35 supersoft wrote: wait a second, I have to make some notes. pretty funny how strong your behavior changed from the last game when you were mafia :D Is this a mindgame or are you really townie this time? I learned from last game, and am trying a new style. It's a smaller game and it's much easier to press people here. | ||
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On June 20 2011 00:21 supersoft wrote: How much time is left until nighttime? Five hours and five minutes, as of the time of this post | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
i knew i would regret trying to play smart this game. note to self: when playing with rookies just tunnel someone. take your votes off me i'm not scum. it's father's day, look at who's starting the bandwagon and who's jumping on it on me, assuming that i don't have time to mount a defense. well surprise surprise queers, I DON'T HAVE A FATHER. anyways if the town wants blood that badly i'll go ahead and make a case for someone. again i don't have strong suspicions towards anyone but i won't let the town shoot itself in the foot and try to lose just before the voting deadline. zzzz brb winning the game for town | ||
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