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Alright, I go to bed and wake up eight hours later and this thread has descended into a whirlwind of even more madness and stupidity than when I left it.
1. Amber has not confirmed that redFF's Zodiac list is accurate, or even exists at all. I would conclude that the two of them are scum, but if they were, Amber would have been in here to confirm it by now. He needs to say something ASAP.
2. Go look at the voting thread. We have 14 different candidates. FOURTEEN. How many scum are there? Most likely around 6 or 7.
3. VisceraEyes. This is one of the biggest bandwagons I've seen in a while. He posted a quick survey intended to generate discussion. It did so. Nothing scummy about that in itself.
4. BloodyC0bbler's suspect list. From a player who I've heard to be as experienced as you, that was a terrible, terrible post. Most of the players on there are just inexperienced. Bad analysis =/= scum. Think if you were on a mafia team and had a new player or two who was ready to go post their excellent analysis on an unsuspecting townie. Would you let them do it and draw attention to themselves? I know I wouldn't.
Noobtells are not scumtells.
5. Lurkers. Mig, Karshe, Tackster, Kenpachi, hiro protagonist, Palmar, Torte de Lini, Barundar, and probably a few others I've missed. These are all people who have either contributed one or two posts every now and then, but nothing of substance, or people who posted near the beginning of the game and then disappeared.
6. tnkted's vote. He has already mentioned that it was on Coagulation because Coag isn't in the game. He has also said that it has something to do with his role. I'll say it again, cause we can't seem to get our heads around it, but role =/= alignment. If that is the only reason you're voting for him, I suggest you change it.
7. Someone earlier mentioned that Jackal58 was looking a little scummy. I agree, but he is also extremely hard to analyze. Even as town he is cryptic and aggressive, so there is no way to tell right now. I think the chance that he is town is greater than the chance he is scum right now.
8.
I think we should definitely keep the idea of the Zodiac list in play, and put lots of pressure on the players who are on it. Here is my personal Zodiac list
bumatlarge
BloodyC0bbler
GMarshal
Meapak_Ziphh
DropBear
Node
Jackal58
kitaman27
Rean
Mr. Wiggles
tnkted
I feel that these players should have more pressure put on them to contribute meaningfully and regularly. So far, very few of them have been doing so. The chance that at least 1 or 2 of them are scum is high.
I am going to have to cast my vote within the next hour or so. Right now I have it down to a few candidates, but I don't think it will do any good today, seeing as everyone else has voted for a noob townie or some other random player. I don't feel that the two leaders, Tackster and Sandroba, are scummy.
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@Kurumi
I actually clear out why i picked him in the first post, I did it mainly because he was a vet - and he pointed out that others did bad analysis - and he hadnt done any of his own at that point.
There was also someone in another post who requested more 'read' on tnkted - and I was really hoping for him to point out what really was wrong with the analysis instead of just shutting it down, which he did!
I also wrote it at a point where quite a few people were discussing zodiac lists and roleclaiming - I wanted to bring new content to the thread hoping it would encourage others to do the same.
My original eye on him werent scummy at all - it did tho get scummy when he replied (which i included in the second post about him) - and yeah, I wanted discussion around the analysis - saying analysis is bad without reasoning doesnt help - another bad analysis will just show up - and yet again get shut down.
The lack of any kind of constructive criticism and / or defence others than "ive got great role who will ensure im in the end game" doesnt really make him less scummy as far as I see.
I picked him kind of random hoping for something good - didnt even think it would show up as scummy as it would - and hes attitude / replies sure as hell didnt make it more green in my eyes.
I might be new - but in this game I for now dont trust anyone :-p - What i would know if in what cases would it benefit him/town to actually behave that way ? If you want the town to do good analysis of people - dont just shut down people trying, say whats wrong and they might improve.
Scum would shut people down, Town would probably help.... Thats the way I see it.
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On June 01 2011 22:11 chaos13 wrote:
Alright, I go to bed and wake up eight hours later and this thread has descended into a whirlwind of even more madness and stupidity than when I left it.
1. Amber has not confirmed that redFF's Zodiac list is accurate, or even exists at all. I would conclude that the two of them are scum, but if they were, Amber would have been in here to confirm it by now. He needs to say something ASAP.
I agree. If Amber does not show up,does not confirm,tries to advocate himself with "I was busy" I think we should lynch redff then Amber.
2. Go look at the voting thread. We have 14 different candidates. FOURTEEN. How many scum are there? Most likely around 6 or 7.
YES,YES! I will take my vote off probably after Wiggles speaks up,even if not I am going to switch it.
3. VisceraEyes. This is one of the biggest bandwagons I've seen in a while. He posted a quick survey intended to generate discussion. It did so. Nothing scummy about that in itself.
That survey was weird and sinani206 pointed out it flaws.
4. BloodyC0bbler's suspect list. From a player who I've heard to be as experienced as you, that was a terrible, terrible post. Most of the players on there are just inexperienced. Bad analysis =/= scum. Think if you were on a mafia team and had a new player or two who was ready to go post their excellent analysis on an unsuspecting townie. Would you let them do it and draw attention to themselves? I know I wouldn't.
Noobtells are not scumtells.
Sure,but bad analysis is scum/noobtell. If You get a BAD analysis from good player,what does it mean? They certainly are not noob.
5. Lurkers. Mig, Karshe, Tackster, Kenpachi, hiro protagonist, Palmar, Torte de Lini, Barundar, and probably a few others I've missed. These are all people who have either contributed one or two posts every now and then, but nothing of substance, or people who posted near the beginning of the game and then disappeared.
We are trying to resolve this issue,I'd like to point out at Karshe,who did nothing yet.
6. tnkted's vote. He has already mentioned that it was on Coagulation because Coag isn't in the game. He has also said that it has something to do with his role. I'll say it again, cause we can't seem to get our heads around it, but role =/= alignment. If that is the only reason you're voting for him, I suggest you change it.
I do agree.
7. Someone earlier mentioned that Jackal58 was looking a little scummy. I agree, but he is also extremely hard to analyze. Even as town he is cryptic and aggressive, so there is no way to tell right now. I think the chance that he is town is greater than the chance he is scum right now.
I think I will look myself into Jackal's case
8.
I think we should definitely keep the idea of the Zodiac list in play, and put lots of pressure on the players who are on it. Here is my personal Zodiac list
bumatlarge
BloodyC0bbler
GMarshal
Meapak_Ziphh
DropBear
Node
Jackal58
kitaman27
Rean
Mr. Wiggles
tnkted
I feel that these players should have more pressure put on them to contribute meaningfully and regularly. So far, very few of them have been doing so. The chance that at least 1 or 2 of them are scum is high.
I am going to have to cast my vote within the next hour or so. Right now I have it down to a few candidates, but I don't think it will do any good today, seeing as everyone else has voted for a noob townie or some other random player. I don't feel that the two leaders, Tackster and Sandroba, are scummy.
Overall I agree with this post,the point about Sandroba and Tackster is valid. If they're indeed scum,we will know that really soon.
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@stefftastiq
We're not coaching here. We are playing Mafia here. If You continue to play bad,You'll get lynched,because You look scummy with bad analysis,reads,moves and such. I don't think You should pick at random,because You should pick THE SCUMMIEST person. I wonder why You just said that You wanted to derail the thread with that analysis what's the point? Unless You have something really hot and good,there's no point in giving excess information which leads us nowhere.
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and my focus on vet/noob is clearly affected by all the posts of the zodiac lists etc - I just wanted to emphasize discussion - not just recycling of what everybody else is doing 
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@Kurumi
I didnt want to derail the thread, I wanted to get more discussion around the players instead of lists/roleclaims - sorry about that!
I have no problems admitting that my analysis might be bad - Ive obviously have some lack of skills since at least some of it makes quite sense to me.
Yes - I have understood theres no coaching of any kind here - but doesnt it really benefit the town as a whole if someone points out WHY its a bad analysis instead of just "its shit" - which it of course could be.
about the scummiest person - were at day1 - the scummiest person could be anyone - there are 33 players from different countries - both languageskills and timezones are something which contributes to how players express themselves - my chosing of tnkted was done why i stated in the first post - he shut down another analysis - i thought i might do one of him - but it was obviously shit as well - i can live with that - the outfall of it all still looks scummy to me.
Im not afraid to change vote - even tho it might be scummy - I have no problem saying I might be wrong - im done at work an hour before the voting ends, so cya then
Hope this clearifies most of my points and yours of course.
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Okay I agree that there's no point in spreading votes like this. sandroba has had his share of pressure put on him and if people don't think that he slipped then I guess I'll drop my case against him for now.
##Unvote sandroba
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I actually like this post by chaos13 quite much.
My fear though is that tnkted, if his role is really as good as he states, will not ever feel pressured at all, even if he is on the list.
On the other hand, I still fear that redff´s role might prevent Amber from posting. If Amber doesn´t post anymore today, I would like a medic to throw a little lifesaver his way, so we can ask questions tomorrow.
@stefftastiq
Drop the fear. The insecurity you are emitting is cringeworthy. If you think your analysis is weak, don´t show it. Act like its the best analysis ever.
I know you from snmm2, and I´m happy that you are actively participating this time. However, remind yourself that all the vets in this game are as clueless as we are. I am pretty sure about that at this point.
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@Mataza
It wasnt me who said it was weak
Well - I could call my vote a pressure vote?
Im off.
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On June 01 2011 22:59 stefftastiq wrote:@Mataza It wasnt me who said it was weak Well - I could call my vote a pressure vote? Im off.
I don't know. It is up to You.
Hey Prp,how is it going,running away from sinking ship,You little rat?
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@Kurumi
There's really no need to get personal here. Just state what's on your mind instead.
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I am going to be voting for GMarshal.
On May 31 2011 05:25 GMarshal wrote:
Mataza has the ability to stick his foot in his mouth with ease, as he proved in SNMMIII, he also has a penchant for fake claiming roles, e.g. he considered claiming cop day 1 in SNMMIII, I'm just ignoring his statements about his role for now.
Also lets try to avoid a claim this early in the game, yes?
There was minimal pressure on Mataza, and there really wasn't any chance of him actually being chosen as the lynch for today based just on what was going on at the beginning of the thread. If GMarshal flips red, we can rest assured that Mataza is red as well. I see no reason for a townie to so quickly move to defending someone they should be suspicious of. Just because he played strangely in one game doesn't mean he will in another. So far Mataza's posting seems fairly solid to me.
On May 31 2011 06:01 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 05:59 sandroba wrote:
EBWODP: That should have read we policy lynch ANYONE who claims without valuable information or lies about their role. So, kind of what happened to tnkted when he claimed bulletproof in Sleeper Cell. I like LAL, but we do *not* policy lynch as policy lynches keep us from gaining valuable information. We policy vigi shot. So if someone lies we just ignore them and let someone toss a kp at them at night.
I don't really see where a townie would be coming from with this. A mafia member would definitely want information/policy vigi shots rather than successful scum hits. What is even better about this post from a mafia perspective is that if they are called out on it, they can pass it off as a bad townie plan. However, many people have stated that GMarshal is a good player, and I do not think he would make a plan like this without understanding exactly how it works.
On June 01 2011 07:29 GMarshal wrote:
Kurumi, if you keep spamming useless shit I'll make sure you eat a nice bullet later.
@People focusing on redFF's claim. Ignore the claim itself and focus on the reasoning behind it, remember if he is telling the truth about his role or lying is irrelevant.
Oh, since it seems like I'm not going to get much from torte
##Unvote
##Vote: Barundar
Barundar has all of one post. This is not an acceptable level of contribution.
@Kenpachi, you said that its too early to be pressuring inactives/lurkers. Its never to early to kill lurkers. If you dont deal with them early you have to deal with them later.
I really don't know what to think of this post. I know Kurumi has been contributing well now, and that at the time of this post he was discussing the pros/cons of roleclaims and potential scenarios in which it could be useful. GMarshal also claims here (I think?).
The middle of this post seems rather average, and the last bit is questionable again. Remember that lurkers can just as easily be town as scum. What we really want to be doing is sifting through the active players looking for scum. With lurkers, there is no way to differentiate between lurking town and lurking scum. The active players have given us more than enough to go on though. All in all, this is an extremely weak post for a townie, and a passable one for a mafia.
On June 01 2011 07:38 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 07:35 Mataza wrote:
tl;du:
Your plan prevents something from happening that won´t happen unless your plan was done already.
You say w/out your plan mafia can claim any role they want. But they can´t unless they somehow find out who created their roles. And right now your plan reveals exactly that. We are done discussing a plan that will not be put into place. Both sides have been pretty clearly laid out. Instead answer these questions. 1.) If you were a vigilante who would you shoot tonight 2.) if you were a kingmaker who would you make king tomorrow 3.) what is your favorite colour 4.) Of all the players with more than ten posts in the game at the moment, which seem the scummiest?
At first I saw nothing wrong with this post, and even answered it myself. Then someone explained how it is scummy. It goes something like this
1. Mafia will avoid wasting a shot on that player if they are town. If they are mafia they will kill the player who said it.
2. Mafia will be inclined to kill this player.
3. Wat? Doesn't make any sense for a townie to ask this unless it is part of their role, which I really really doubt.
4. This one is the most pro-town question, but can also work for mafia.
If Town:
-Gives more input
-Creates mores discussion and analysis
If Mafia:
-Gives mafia team an idea on who they can push for a lynch
-Gives mafia team an idea if any of their players are standing out
The rest of his posts have been relatively useless. They created some minor discussion without actually forcing GM to contribute.
As for votes, he has gone from Torte de Lini to Barundar, both times stating it is a pressure vote, but neither time trying to get other people to help him pressure vote. Why is this scummy? Look at the majority of players. They are trying to catch scum and vote for the players they think are scummy. What GM is doing is getting in his vote without resulting in suspicion cast on him when he tries to push for a townie lynch and they flip green. If someone calls him out on it he can say "But I was pressuring lurkers!". It is a tactic I used often as scum in a game on UG.
In conclusion, GM has had a few pro-mafia points in his posts, and the rest are a way of contributing without contributing. His votes are not useful to town, but he is able to pass them off as in town's best interests if questioned. I feel he is a player that has managed to fly just under the radar for the whole game, and that we really need to put some pressure on him. As I have mentioned before, read every one of his posts considering why he would say what he has if he was mafia and if he was town.
##Vote GMarshal
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On June 01 2011 07:38 redFF wrote:
Oh and Amber's Zodiac list
Wiggles
GM
Sandroba
kita
bum
visceraeyes
BC
Meapak
Dropbear
Jackal
Cesar Milan at your service :D
*wiggles his tail*
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On June 01 2011 23:05 prplhz wrote:
@Kurumi
There's really no need to get personal here. Just state what's on your mind instead.
You're not a person,duh,You're a rat. You had,SO BIG case against Sandroba,You even called him SCUM. You were acting like You were SURE he is scum and now "well I agree with chaos13,I will move my vote now" What? Sandroba has 4 votes,2 votes behind Tackster who is going to get unvoted after he comes back and defends himself. Maybe You just want to blend in? "I was SURE that SANDROBA(who is scumscumscumscum) was scum,but well he isn't scum because he isn't scum. Also what people have to do with Your opinion? You had a HUGE case,You needed to go with it,unless.. You are scum. The opinion that people don't agree/follow You (4votes,3 without You) is bullshit.
You did not answer my question too.
You're obviously bandwagoning. "If they decide to lynch Sandroba,I'll just jump in."
Thanks. You easily could get my vote,but You will taste by bullet this night,for safety measures with this game,since we have one person already immune to lynches.
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On June 01 2011 23:13 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 07:38 redFF wrote:
Oh and Amber's Zodiac list
Wiggles
GM
Sandroba
kita
bum
visceraeyes
BC
Meapak
Dropbear
Jackal
Cesar Milan at your service :D *wiggles his tail*
*pets doggy*
Good boy. Any more info?
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@Kurumi
sandroba has 3 votes with 2 votes being removed from him already. Tackster has 6 votes.
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Sigh... I just wrote up a big ol' response to steff, and then I refreshed and it was gone. #()%&)#(%&
Basically it was this:
1. You are pressuring correctly, but you chose the wrong person to pressure since I'm not afraid of dying
2. Your analysis was weak because A. you chose bad posts to analyze and B. you were extremely wishy-washy in your approach.
3. I wasn't even talking to you when you think I was, I was talking to sinani. I have not addressed you yet this entire game IIRC lol.
Keep up the good work though, I'm convinced that you are a noobie town if it makes you feel any better.
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On June 01 2011 23:14 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2011 23:05 prplhz wrote:
@Kurumi
There's really no need to get personal here. Just state what's on your mind instead. You're not a person,duh,You're a rat. You had,SO BIG case against Sandroba,You even called him SCUM. You were acting like You were SURE he is scum and now "well I agree with chaos13,I will move my vote now" What? Sandroba has 4 votes,2 votes behind Tackster who is going to get unvoted after he comes back and defends himself. Maybe You just want to blend in? "I was SURE that SANDROBA(who is scumscumscumscum) was scum,but well he isn't scum because he isn't scum. Also what people have to do with Your opinion? You had a HUGE case,You needed to go with it,unless.. You are scum. The opinion that people don't agree/follow You (4votes,3 without You) is bullshit. You did not answer my question too. You're obviously bandwagoning. "If they decide to lynch Sandroba,I'll just jump in." Thanks. You easily could get my vote,but You will taste by bullet this night,for safety measures with this game,since we have one person already immune to lynches.
Claiming vig?
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On June 01 2011 23:24 prplhz wrote:
@Kurumi
sandroba has 3 votes with 2 votes being removed from him already. Tackster has 6 votes.
What?
No?
Amber,Jackal nor Bum did not unvote him.
You Scum.
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Amber is back and able to post. Apparently he just didn´t get to post yesterday. Fine.
What doesn´t sit well with me is that redff immediately put FoS on me and anyone I have defended in his eyes. Or that he apologized with hazy memory of the then recent last 3 hours.
And now Kurumi is at it again >.<
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EPT
