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On April 26 2011 00:51 Ace wrote: That will become clear soon, I'm just waiting for more lists.
Rean, why, Kenpachi, Zorkmid, Vain, darmousseh, and GGQ still have to post their lists. They have yet to post at all.
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On April 26 2011 02:39 iGrok wrote: It is possible for scum to kill scum at night. That just makes me believe scum are going to hunker down and hide for a day or two.
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On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal"
Glad you could join us.
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On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader?
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On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 04:57 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader? Jackal, this is the post I am referring to: Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion. I was merely asking him to refrain from making posts that he did not feel he was able to discuss. Much like tnkted's semi claim last night. If you can't discuss it don't allude to it. If you have to put forth something and need to hold back some details fine. At least explain that in your original post. But don't say I know all the answers but I'm not telling.
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On April 26 2011 06:05 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:59 Tackster wrote:On April 26 2011 05:36 GMarshal wrote: God dammit, I figured out what sand was getting at. He is right, it can be done, the whole mafia team can be informed of who the other members are, in my method they won't find out who the GF is but they *will* know who the entire team is. I *think* its doable in five words too, assuming the team consists of five members or less.
Assume that by night 3 the whole mafia team will be aware of the other members are.
Time to work on lynching people I guess. Mr.Wiggles, have you figured out why my vote is on you yet? How does revealing this help town? We now know we have to work on the assumption that the mafia will have all their names by day 3. I think thats a pretty relevant piece of knowledge for us to have, no? It is very relevant. If it is indeed possible the biggest scum tells I think we'll see is a change in posting frequencies. I would suggest every body keep track of how many posts per day each player is making. If there is a marked increase by some of them after 2 or 3 days it is very likely they are scum.
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On April 26 2011 06:12 Ace wrote: That doesn't mean anything. Posting frequency is just as much affected by what's being posted by other players and if people are directly asking you questions. That's a waste of time. I think if you are scum in this set up you are forced into hiding until you know who is on your team. I am town. I have nothing to hide from town. My biggest let down would be to become a mislynch for town. Lynches are the only means we have to win. Scum will target pro town at night. I have no control over that. If I get shot that just means scum thought I was doing a good job. Scum can't afford to post much. If they attempt to appear too much like town they run the risk of being killed by their own teammates at night. They do not yet possess the knowledge to bandwagon lynches so they are on their own in that respect. Not to mention running the risk of lynching their own. Or slipping up and getting lynched themselves. I really think activity levels will tell a story when this game is over. Just my opinion.
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On April 26 2011 06:18 why wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:31 Zorkmid wrote:On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:On April 26 2011 04:57 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:58 why wrote:On April 26 2011 03:43 Jackal58 wrote:On April 26 2011 03:33 why wrote:a) Although I don't like the way he posted it, I generally agree with Rean that the discussion so far has centered on setup analysis and not much scum analysis. I read through it and was surprised by how cordial everyone seemed. There just aren't any FoS's being thrown around yet, which is how stuff usually gets done. At this point my best FoS is Jackal58. It seems really weird to me that everyone jumped on sandroba when he said that he had a way to communicate all the sleeper agent names via the 20 character message but wouldn't tell everyone. If he was scum, he would have jumped on the chance to reveal the strategy in the hopes that the scum leader would use the idea. Not giving up the idea is a null tell at worst. Since Jackal was the most vocal about sandroba giving up the information (and even going so far as to lightly FoS sandroba over the matter), I'm voting him. ##Vote: Jackal58b) Depending on the exact meaning of On April 08 2011 14:51 iGrok wrote: Cute attempts to get around the "No Names" rule or the word/char limit will result in the message being "lost". scum may be able to identify their entire team (or the majority) in one message that doesn't rely on the thread. I see no reason to give specifics, as that will only help mafia, but it should be kept in mind that a new sleeper agent MAY know the entire team each PM cycle. That said, we should definitely be on the lookout for repeated phrases, although the godfather would have to be dumb to make them easily detectable. c) If I was godfather, I'd send messages to Ace, Wiggles, and GGQ. These are just people I think are particularly good at playing the game. My message would depend on exactly what the restrictions on naming names is. If too restrictive, I'd probably tell them to do something specific in their posts. My entire point to him was if you don't want to discuss it don't bring it up. And I'm always "vocal" Glad you could join us. What sandroba did made perfect sense as town (and, yes, as cell leader). If it doesn't involve the thread then there is no reason for him to post specifics. However, it is still useful to say that there is a method he can think of that will inform the PM'ed scum of the entire list. The possibility he brought up, not the method, is the important part. And Ace, I'm excited to see what you've been up to... And he made no mention of not wanting to discuss it until I asked him to share. So I'm scummy because I'm not a mind reader? Jackal, this is the post I am referring to: On April 25 2011 23:14 Jackal58 wrote:On April 25 2011 22:58 sandroba wrote:On April 25 2011 22:54 Ace wrote:On April 25 2011 22:46 sandroba wrote: Ace, I trust your analysis and think you are a smart player, but I don't like the idea of feeding ideas to the cell leader. I don't see how this can be helpful for town as I can think of other methods of comunicating with the sleeper agents that do not involve using the posts in this thread. Well you can keep those methods to yourself since you don't seem intent on sharing. What I'm doing here is something else. Guess you'll just have to read into it a bit more. I'm going to post my three people without the msg then. Ace, GM, Mr. Wiggles. I would inform them of all other mafia players so they can operate normally without the fear of mislynching one of the other agents. Well thanks for that. And how would you transmit this information? You said you can do so without posting anything in the thread. I'm curious how that mechanic would work. You can't send names. You can only contact 1 at a time. You have 5 words or 20 characters/msg. Please don't answer that. God forbid the cell leader gets his hands on super secret stealth communications abilities. Please stop posting pointless "I would do something but I'm not telling you what it is" posts. This thread is for discussion. If you don't feel you can discuss something don't mention it. You're beginning to look a lot like somebody that wants to post a lot of useless stuff just to appear to be contributing. At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion. I don't really fervently disagree with FoSing him for it, I made my post which technically reveals things that agents and cell leader can do, but I did so after thinking about it for 5 minutes. I think that Sandroba is acting at least as anti-town as Jackal58 for failing to point out situation for the town to be vigilant of. Sandroba did point out the danger. Basically, it went like this: Sandroba: I can think of a method for scum to communicate all teammates in one PM. Watch out. Ace, Gmarshal, Jackal: What is it? Sandroba: Don't want to say because it might help scum. Ace, GMarshal (eventually): ok Jackal: FoS Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 05:42 Ace wrote:On April 26 2011 05:27 why wrote:
At this point sandroba has already laid out why he wouldn't want to say anything. You FoS him for it. This is anti-town, since you are FoSing someone for hiding something that only a scum would want/need to know about. You are the one prolonging discussion about something that shouldn't require further discussion.
That's not anti-town. Whether or not sandroba is correct in sharing his information and whether anyone believes what he is hiding is beneficial to the town, Jackal laying a FoS on him for that isn't anti-town. anti-town is doing something that hampers the goal of killing scum. This isn't such an incident and it is a relevant discussion. Add it up to your suspicion points and keep letting him dig a hole for himself if you think he's so anti-town. I guess I misused the word "anti-town". My point is that Jackal FoSing him serves a mafia purpose: if Jackal was town there's no incentive for him to know it, given that it can't be looked out for in the thread. The only reason Jackal would want to know is if he a scum or cell leader looking for effective PMing strategies. I think it is pretty clear that there is no benefit to town knowing the information and there is benefit for mafia, so the FoS can't be justified in terms of creating discussion. Anyway, I think everyone gets where I am coming from so I'll let the discussion move on. But my vote stays on Jackal unless someone can come up with a better lynch (why are people voting Mr. Wiggles?). If that's your idea of the way I FoS somebody you haven't been paying attention. I hit 'em with a bag of rocks and don't stop.
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Happy birthday Mr. Wiggles.
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On April 26 2011 08:14 Kenpachi wrote: oh ya. do you guys think its funny how Mafia may vote the most protown role to kill which may force Sleeper Cell People to not contribute as much? ???
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On April 26 2011 08:19 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2011 08:14 Kenpachi wrote: oh ya. do you guys think its funny how Mafia may vote the most protown role to kill which may force Sleeper Cell People to not contribute as much? It's not funny, its smart play by them. You understood that???
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Apparently everybody has gone to sleep.
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We have about 12 hours remaining until day is up. So it's time we begin to decide who is going to be our first lynch. I really hate day 1 in these games. I pretty much suck at the beginning of these. That said though I do think tnkted has made a few posts that need to be clarified by him. Let's start with this one.
On April 25 2011 08:00 tnkted wrote: I will say this: It is in towns best interest if we stop talking about this. If i was trying to draw mafia attention to myself, pointing it out is bad because then they'll be scared off from killing me. If it was an honest mistake, we're all drawing attention to it and mafia will kill me. If I was trying to draw town attention to myself, I've clearly succeeded.
I will say this: keeping my role a secret is fucking stupid. If i hadn't said something now i'd have breadcrumbed and claimed later. Actually, maybe i'll do that. Checking with igrok to make sure its ok... So if it's in towns best interest to drop it why did you bring it up? The subject did not arise due to a slip in conversation or an argument. You flat out stated you had a strange role:
On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. And then continued again:
On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES And he also tries to assure GM that the cell leader can't possibly have gone out yet. But for all we know he may have laid out the first part of his breadcrumbing to his team mates in pregame posts. He doesn't want to discuss it yet it was an intentional slip/slide/red herring/breadcrumb or whatever you want to call it.
Now this post:
On April 25 2011 12:21 tnkted wrote: Everyone disregard this (crumbing for later): DSBETNLBNTF
Now, on to the game. Trying to find scum's breadcrumbs is going to be extremely difficult imo. There are two ways I think we can play this game if breadcrumbing is vitally important:
1. Set up a posting standardization system where people refrain from using coloqualisms and any identifying characteristics. This system would have to be set up so that all players may only communicate using certain standard symbols or phrases. By simplifying the language like this we can dirastically reduce the ways in which breadcrumbing can happen. However, such a system would completely remove all sense of personality and also all other possible scumtells.
2. Not focus on breadcrumbing at all, except where it is obvious. If we focus on breadcrumbing, picking apart everybody's posts for clues and hints we're going to completely miss what we should be really looking for in those posts, which are scumtells. You can bet that since scum doesn't know who scum is, they are NOT going to want to vote for the scummiest players. Scum is going to act stranger than normal, so we can't waste time looking for scumtells. We can't stop the CL from pming his cronies, so looking for scumtells is a waste of time and town attention. Remember what happened when we focused on the item game in insane 2? We won the item game but lost the overall game. :/
Now, 1 is going to be pretty difficult to do, so I vote that we do 2. Everybody disregard my bread crumb? Don't look for breadcrumbs? Don't look for scumtells? I didn't sign up for basket weaving tnkted. Wtf should we do?
And lastly
On April 26 2011 00:10 tnkted wrote: it wouldn't matter who I sent my 3 to, I'd just have to write: "Twinkle Twinkle Little Scum 3rd" and they'd know who I am.
Technically, theres no reason that scum needs to know who their buddies are if they know who the CL is. The CL can use them like a conductor, posting a scumlist or an analysis that triggers the agents to pick a certain person, perhaps the person third in the list or something (ie the 3rd from above). So I'll be watching scumlists to see if anybody dies from that.
IMO, the cell leader is going to be posting with the best of us this game. He's got to blend in more than anyone, and since he's godfather he's immune to checks. I'm guessing that the first time the DTs 'insufficently' checks a vig and the vig is lynched, we're going to be a lot less likely to lynch on results from DTs. Seems to know how the CL is going to operate. Then tells us to ignore any DT checks we may get.
I am not the greatest analyzer in this game. Far from it. It is also day one so the body of work we all have to go on is minimal. However these posts from tnkted all seem to carry the same anti-town feel to them. If I'm way off the mark please show me. Until then my vote is going on tnkted. Sorry twinkles.
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On April 27 2011 02:26 Ace wrote: Tkdted never made a role claim or hinted at one. You guys are reading something that isn't there. He "breadcrumbed" which while it wasn't even a bread crumb isn't a RC.
Since no one has any solid analysis and are pretty much much reading posts trying to make them look scummy instead of reading people there isn't a good lynch yet. I'd say we should unvote or get rid of inactive but that seems silly. This notion that Scum may be trying to play low activity so they are contacted by the cell leader is absolute nonsense. The Cell Leader already knows the Agent's identities so activity level doesn't matter. + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2011 07:36 tnkted wrote: Yep, got mine too.
This is going to be an interesting game, I got a strange role. On April 25 2011 07:41 tnkted wrote: Lol GM, the cell leader's messages can't possibly have gone out yet, the game hasn't even started yet.
I'm not crumbing, I'm just honestly stating that my role is strange.
Here:
WEIRD ROLE, DUDES On April 25 2011 07:47 tnkted wrote:It makes perfect sense once you see the role. I might actually claim pretty early this game. Debating the merits of it. ????
I'd also like to know the point of your exercise.
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On April 27 2011 02:52 Ace wrote: Jackal care to explain yourself when you quoted that post? Explain myself for quoting what post?
Would you care to explain your Cell Leader exercise?
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On April 27 2011 03:11 Ace wrote: Did you conveniently forget to read the post right above you? No I answered your question before I scrolled through the rest of the thread. Forgive me for being fallible. I answered your question with a question. Which quoted post were you talking about? Or are you being conveniently obtuse?
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And just to be clear I am not asking tnkted to role claim. I want to know why he felt compelled to bring it up pre game just to say "Let's just forget this" Wtf do people do that for?
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On April 27 2011 04:27 Ace wrote: Because I feel you are the most scummy player in the game so far. Why else would I vote for you? And what makes me scummy?
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I haven't created some super secret name game whose purpose can't be revealed. I haven't made semi claims and posts proclaiming I have a secret but I'm not telling. I have answered any questions asked of me. Except for you know the vague one you asked me and never clarified. I'm not lurking. What have I done that is scummy? Disagree with you?
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