EPTGM is scum. defending his scum buddy Coag by attacking DrH. Also, why the fuck would the mayor analyze the Pardoner.
TL Mafia XXXVIII - Page 103
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
GM is scum. defending his scum buddy Coag by attacking DrH. Also, why the fuck would the mayor analyze the Pardoner. | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
Since his gambit to get elected failed, he would need to switch his claim to something that would draw a medic protect...so a blue DT. If this is the case, either Coag is a fellow mafia and they are bussing him, which would probably mean that protact is a high profile role in the mafia. Or Coag isn't mafia and he is just trying to take someone out before we find out and lynch him. Which doesn't really matter since, because his mayor gambit already failed, his days are numbered already. Also, if and when we do find out that protact was mafia, I think that heaps a ton of suspicion on Doctor Mayor. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On April 14 2011 06:01 Kenpachi wrote: KAY. I HAVE COME TO A CONCLUSION. GM is scum. defending his scum buddy Coag by attacking DrH. Also, why the fuck would the mayor analyze the Pardoner. First we lynch Coag. Then Mafia I hope we have 3 medics :S.. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Mr. Wiggles' Take on FW vs. Coag ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/84opT.jpg) Ok, so I just got home from school (last class of semester, yay!), only to open up the thread, see who died, and find 15 new pages of information. So, there's been a lot of debate on Flamewheel's DT claim, and how he fingered Coag as red, and I'd like to add my own thoughts to it. Information available to me: -FW claimed Assassin Day 1, in an attempt to secure the mayorship -FW is a veteran, and lauded analyzer -FW has now claimed DT, saying he checked Coag and that he is Mafia -There are no Framers -Coag has claimed Veteran, and is adamantly defending himself Thoughts: I'm personally inclined to believe that at this point, FW is either an Assassin or a Detective. I'm not going to entertain the idea that he's a Townie or Mafia. If he's a Townie, then this is very anti-town play, because he could have easily claimed the mayorship without any kind of claim, and now he's faking being a DT. That would mean he's involved in two major lies, but hey, he'd probably be having fun :p. If he's mafia, then this doesn't make much sense either, as again, he could have easily claimed the mayorship without any claim, and then everything that follows would be complete insanity, though if he were somehow mafia, it would follow closely to my thoughts on if he were an assassin. So, without further ado: Case 1: Flamewheel is an Assassin Then, his claim day 1 is a very strong power play against the other assassins. He would assure himself immunity from them, while also having complete security from accidental hits from mafia or vigilantes. There is nothing illogical about a Black trying this. However, he never made it into office. This then leaves him in a bit of a tight spot. Mafia have no reason to shoot him if he's black, so he'll probably live through Night 1, but he needs to find a way to live at least past night 2. So what can he do? Claim detective, and put his strong analytical skills to work. A lot of people seem to be mistaking that just because FW claimed he used a check, he must be DT because Assassins can't use a check Night 1, without considering the possibility that he used no check at all (Looking at you, new players). All game long, I've had to read how in awe people are of his scum hunting skills, so considering this, it would be relatively easy for him to pick out at least one potential scum candidate and make a case against him, using the fake DT check as extra leverage. This fits in with his motivations of self-preservation. If he's wrong, so what? He just gets killed which, and this is important, he would have anyways after claiming Assassin AND Detective. If he's right, then he can potentially attract medic attention, and live through the night, which is his optimal move at the moment. Case 2: Flamewheel is a Detective Then, according to him at least, his claim day 1 was a draw to get mafia and other assassins to attack him, so he would have more information to work with. However, in doing so, he most likely lessened his chances of actually making it in to office. So, this is not illogical, but is more of a choice of information over security. So, as he would have expected, he did not make it into office, but was free to use his check last night, on Coag, with it coming back as mafia. Now, he needs to build his case against him, but in order to get town to actually believe him, he has to claim his real role, Detective. This will allow him to lynch a scum, and draw medic protection so he can continue checking. It also dissuades Assassins from hitting him, so he can continue to help the town. Why Coag's Flip Will Reveal Nothing Useful About Flamewheel: Let's say that Coag flips Town (Green/Blue). Then FW is lying, and is an Assassin. His gambit has failed, and now the other Assassins will kill him overnight. This reveals nothing to town, only other Assassins. Let's say that Coag flips Mafia. This reveals nothing to us about FW. All it shows is that he might be a DT, or he's a good analyst. We don't know anything about his alignment, only that he can pick out scum. (Which is useful but has dangers, addressed later). My Opinion: I'm personally inclined to think that Flamewheel is an Assassin. While both scenarios are sound and have nothing inconsistent in them, I find the first one to be more likely. After a failed claim and run at the mayor, this is exactly how a good player like FW would have to play it in order to have any further chance at winning. If he were a DT, there are many different ways he could have played out Day 1 and now Day 2, and pretending to be an assassin seems to be one of the oddest. This means that his case on Coag is entirely analysis, and should be treated as such, though keep in mind this does not necessarily lessen the case on him. How we should proceed: Lynching Coag? Lynching Coag is only an option if we have been convinced that he is a member of the mafia. If you are only convinced because of the claim, but not by analysis, then I urge you to reconsider your decision. If you are convinced by the analysis, then nothing is really amiss. The only oddities I see with Coag is that he hasn't seemed quite as aggressive and spammy as earlier games (The same applies to Jackal), so this might be due to his claim, or to his being mafia, both are possible. In my opinion, we should consider if there are other scummy targets who we can lynch, as Coag has claimed Veteran. Like GMarshal (and others) have said, we can use a vigilante shot on Coag tonight to see if he is Red or a Veteran. This might require the Vigilante to claim, in order to assure its authenticity, but then we either have two confirmed townies, or two confirmed scum (If the shot is faked). This is debatable however, so I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on it. Medic Protecting Flamewheel? Again, this is debatable. I don't think we should lynch him really, as we are either lynching a Detective or an Assassin, both of which are bad for town (The Assassin less so). So, we are left with the decision of either leaving him to die by Assassins or Mafia, or protecting him to continue to analyze and possibly check. He'll be targeted by either or both factions because of his two claims. Assassins will hit him as they think he is an Assassin, or Mafia will hit him as they think he is a Detective. So, should we protect him? From my perspective, no. We will not know his role until he either flips, or is investigated himself and that information is made public. This means that we can only trust in him so far as his analysis and scum hunting goes. However, as I mentioned earlier, there is an inherent danger in this. Flamewheel has a reputation as a good analyst. If he is an assassin, he can very easily analyze the players he believes to be the other Assassins and put a spin on the analysis so that his final conclusion is Mafia. This entails that he'll be using town to kill his competition, wasting our lynches. This is the first reason for not protecting him, the next being that it won't do him any good anyways. Right now, he is a prime target for both the Mafia and the other Assassins, and there is a high likelihood that they will stack, when there is a separate 3-5 KP that might be aimed at him, from the mafia spending one, and anywhere between two to four Assassins all wanting to kill him. A medic protecting him is a waste. If people want to increase his chances of surviving the night, a much better choice is to place a watcher on him, as then we may net ourselves a Mafia and collaterally, the names of potentially several Assassins. So Who Do We Lynch? At this point in time, I don't know. What we should do, is pull back for a minute and start scumhunting. Several people have created several analysis, and I'm sure there are more that can be made if the town starts actively analyzing. At the very least, this will give us more information, as everyone will either analyze, or will be analyzed, giving us something to work with in the coming days. Hopefully we can find someone worth lynching in the next day and a half, and if not, we may be forced to reconsider the Coag vs. Flamewheel debate. | ||
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aidnai
United States1159 Posts
scum points for wiggles. | ||
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redFF
United States3910 Posts
a) mafia want to kill dt's b) assassins want to kill assassins. Hes desperately trying to get trust and filling the thread with fucking WIFOM. Here's what we should do lynch m0nsterChef. He was a lot of people's scum read day 1. And we wait to see what flamewheel flips tonight. He flips dt, we lynch coag. He flips scum then lol. He flips assassin, we ignore everything hes fucking said. He's been fucking derailing the thread. Don't LAL, just leave him to be nightkilled and see how he flips. | ||
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
On March 26 2011 03:53 BrownBear wrote: 3RD-PARTY ROLES ASSASSIN: Each night STARTING NIGHT 2, you may choose to either do nothing, kill someone, or call in R1CH's favor. You may not call in the favor and kill someone in the same night. You win when all other Assassins have been eliminated. You return Assassin to rolechecks. So either flamewheel is fake claiming DT and trading 1:1 for coag (of all people, according to people here coag's meta is basically spam and be useless?) I'm confused here  | ||
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Conversion
United States3308 Posts
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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Coagulation
United States9633 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
Coagulation Barundar GMarshal RedFF Mister Wiggles Robellicose ilovejonn ~~~~~~ -runs away like a noob who accuses people and dont post reasons why they are scum because their reason for believe they are scum is actually bandwagoning other people's idea on the people they accused- | ||
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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
On April 14 2011 07:18 Kenpachi wrote: Scum Team Coagulation Barundar GMarshal RedFF Mister Wiggles Robellicose ilovejonn ~~~~~~ -runs away like a noob who accuses people and dont post reasons why they are scum because their reason for believe they are scum is actually bandwagoning other people's idea on the people they accused- Thanks for contributing. That list is very helpful. /sarcasm | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
/sarcasm | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
On April 14 2011 07:02 Conversion wrote: So either flamewheel is fake claiming DT and trading 1:1 for coag (of all people, according to people here coag's meta is basically spam and be useless?) I'm confused here This makes me ponder. If coag flips red, then flame is either DT or a really really good guesser. I don't see any good argument for lynching him though, other than the fact that he lied. And I'll go back to what I said earlier, no scum will come out as DT in day 2 saying that someone else is scum. That's just dumb. If you guys don't wanna lynch coag, I'm fine with that as well, but lynching flame right now is silly. | ||
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ilovejonn
Canada2548 Posts
From vote count: Coagulation: 10 Protactinium DoctorHelvetica kevconsim chaoser urashimakt Rean Mig bumatlarge DarthThienAn Serejai | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 14 2011 07:18 Kenpachi wrote: Scum Team Coagulation Barundar GMarshal RedFF Mister Wiggles Robellicose ilovejonn ~~~~~~ -runs away like a noob who accuses people and dont post reasons why they are scum because their reason for believe they are scum is actually bandwagoning other people's idea on the people they accused- lol this is almost identical to my list | ||
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aidnai
United States1159 Posts
1) likely scenario is protact = assassin, coag = vet 2) mafia don't really care about who we kill here 3) debating this is therefore mostly a waste of time. Best course of action is let protact die tonight, decide about a coag lynch based on the flip (or vig him pretty please  Therefore it's time to post my lynch candidate: Rean. + Show Spoiler [rean's posts with commentary] + On April 11 2011 08:21 Rean wrote: yeah right you're gonna kill mafia while they actually help you by possibly killing a asassin, giving up your night-actions in the progress YEAAAAAAAAAAH, right, you're gonna ignore your own win conditions because you're such a nice person keep trying, you're pretty amusing. One of the quickest and most dismissive responses to protact. Doesn't mean he's scum yet, but in combo with his later acceptance of protact is completely damning. On April 11 2011 19:20 Rean wrote: I'm starting to think that the third assasin not Prot or Eiii is laughing his ass off. Both his adversary's have been revealed and with Prot's campaign failing, he has this in the bag, A good thing for town aswell, the quicker these assasins gtfo out of the game the less chance they accidentally kill a townie. not-so-subtley suggesting that eiii is assassin, which I think was unfounded (but maybe not it's not important to my case). On April 12 2011 07:32 Rean wrote: Placeholder vote on DrH right now, seems to be the best candidate although i'd ask to tone down thew aggresiveness a bit. As for who to lynch: Pandain seems to be a safe bet, his fakeclaim DT is completely retarded and even if he's town he's not helping so we might aswell kill him. THIS POST IS IMPORTANT! "even if he's town he's not helping so we might aswell kill him." Absolutely a scumtell. Especially since, seeing the night kills, we know mafia believed the claim more than the retraction. Townies facepalmed or ridiculed pandain, they didn't call for his lynch. On April 12 2011 08:15 Rean wrote: Meapak says it's okay to pm the host: [01:14] <+Meapak> FUCK [01:14] <+Meapak> redff [01:14] <+Meapak> dude [01:14] <+Meapak> I'm at 1499 posts [01:14] <+Meapak> I can't post  [01:14] <+GGQ> i keep accidentally missing my milestone posts [01:14] <+Meapak> just tell him that he can PM the hosts Apparently he's in irc with GGQ zzz... On April 12 2011 23:06 Rean wrote: I'm trying out this new scum strategy: lurk really hardcore and only respond every once every 8 or so hours with meaningless posts, while simultaniously posting a ton in another mafia thread, so i can avoid any suspicion. If anyone accuses me: ignore it. Is it working? Responds to a legitimate point by blowing it off and trolling. 1) His response time shows he's actively reading this thread (responded within 10 minutes) 2) His thread presence in Insane 2 shows his 'normal' activity level 3) His thread presence in this game shows??? and yet all he does for the next several posts is claim mafia -_- Why would a mafia do this? well, the main reason I think would be to be able to ask 'why would a mafia do this?' while at the same time COMPLETELY DODGING THE QUESTION. This game is definitely not boring, there's no excuse for his activity level. On April 12 2011 23:10 Rean wrote: Nah, he's my teammate but he's putting the "ask stupid questions and look like a total newbie" method to the test. I'm trying out the strategy I explained above trollolol -_- On April 12 2011 23:29 Rean wrote: Don't complain, we want them to kill town so they don't lynch us. We talked over this yesterday, remember? zzz... On April 13 2011 00:13 Rean wrote: Awesome. Now all we need is iGrok to swap in for one of my other scumbuddy's and the famed Insane Mafia 2 police team is back worket together once more! ON, can't you suddenly be inable to play so iGrok can swap in or something? At this point, it's obvious that Rean is trying to bring his activity level to 'normal' levels while ignoring what is actually going on so he doesn't have to take a stance. On April 13 2011 07:08 Rean wrote: What he's saying is that lynching ON might be a gamble, but it's one with a high reward. Either we kill him, he flips red and we've got a few red buddies to point out, or he flips green and then people like RedFF will start to be very red. A risk that might just be worth taking, unless there's another good option. Lynch for information, a risk worth taking... I want what this guy has been smoking. On April 13 2011 07:33 Rean wrote: ....that has to be the most retarded analogy yet. no comment On April 13 2011 17:01 Rean wrote: Yeah, nice try. Except my first mafia game here was Death Factory (townie twin with RoL), second game Insane Mafia 2. As for the Coagulation affair: looking through all of his previous posts, two things really stand out above all: he is extremely paranoid of Prot becoming mayor, freaking out whenever it seems likely that he's being elected only to continue lurking once the threat dies down. Secondly, he has another classic "100% town guys dw had town read all along" read a la Lemonwalrus on GMarshal, despite the fact that alot of people have being pointing out how scummy GMarshal has been all along. I don't know, but I doubt anyone not mafia buddy's with him would trust their reads this much when alot of others are doubting him. Then again, that's what I thought in Insane Mafia 2 aswell and look how that turned out >.> If I had to guess right now, i'd say that both Coagulation and GMarshal are red. Protactinium: I honestly don't fucking know if you're assassin or DT, and quite frankly I couldn't care less. Being a veteran player you could've easily made that read as a assassin. Right now i'd say we lynch Coagulation and if he flips red, medic Prot. If he flips green (doubtful) Prot dies. This is where it gets juicy again: a) he once again dodges the activity/trolling issue b) HE THINKS COAG IS SCUMMY FOR REJECTING PROTACT FOR MAYOR DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER FOLKS c) throwing FOS around at coag/gmarshal d) DOESN'T KNOW/CARE IF PROT IS AN ASSASSIN, BUT STILL CALLS FOR MEDIC ON HIM DING DING DING TWICE IN ONE POST. Thanks for making it easy Rean On April 13 2011 17:12 Rean wrote: I'm saying that if he's a assassin, he just made the read on Coagulation because it's pretty easy to see he's scum based on his posting. He's a veteran player after all, it wouldn't be all that far-fetched. Sure, he'd be lying his ass off but he's not actually being detrimental to town so /care. Once again, contradicting his original rejection of protact. This is huge: before he couldn't accept for one second that protact would play in a way that didn't hurt town, now he's convinced of the opposite. What's the difference? well, in case one protact is denying scum a chance at mayor, in case two, protact is tying up a medic, but still role-blockable. On April 13 2011 17:35 Rean wrote: That just about seals the deal. Cya Coagulation. This alone makes me sure that coag is a bad lynch today. On April 13 2011 18:32 Rean wrote: So he is a assassin, whatever. Doesn't clear you one bit, you've still acted pretty damn scummy all game long. Yes, acted scummy by opposing protact as mayor amirite? On April 13 2011 21:09 Rean wrote: Read the damn thread, plenty of people are reading him as scum, notably because of his extreme opposition towards Prot while also heavily promoting GMarshal to be mayor (without ever giving any solid reason as to why GM other then "had town read on him". You're following scum 101: one of your buddies under threat? Suggest they lynch someone else. Try harder please. mudslinging more mudslinging. If you don't want to read the whole wall of text, read only the quotes that I posted red under. Important points to remember: 1) Rean's attitude towards protact and coag proves that he is mafia 2) Rean's attitude towards his activity level and his responses to criticism indicate he is mafia 3) Rean's lack of contribution and mudslinging just put the nail in the coffin. Lynch Red. Lynch Rean. | ||
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M0nsterChef
Canada67 Posts
Also: which people do you guys think deserve dt/ tracker checks? | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On April 14 2011 07:38 M0nsterChef wrote: If we lynch coagulation and he flips green, then do we automatically lynch FW? Also: which people do you guys think deserve dt/ tracker checks? No. Assassins will kill FW | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On April 14 2011 07:38 M0nsterChef wrote: If we lynch coagulation and he flips green, then do we automatically lynch FW? Also: which people do you guys think deserve dt/ tracker checks? It won't matter because he will die to assassins on Night 2. | ||
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