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its what, 2 votes? if the vote is close enough (like, 16-14) where my one vote will tip the scale, then perhaps it is not "stupid" to have voted it, right?
the mayoral role is not really a town leader position. it's an extra set of lives and a very weak voting power that can be overcome easily (and is 100% transparent). i am playing along with the leadership meme because hey it makes sense, but think about what POWER the mayor has. the only power it has is protection and a weak voting boost. any other leadership that the town chooses to assign to the mayor player is entirely on their own volition.
why do we want to give death protection to a mason? there is no real reason we want to keep the masons alive above someone else who can actually affect things, right? so he has a circle, cool, what does that do for us and why would his death hurt the town, per se?
if i died it would be much worse than a random mason dying, that is all i am saying. are there others out there with roles better suited to protection? probably. but they aren't talking, so i will.
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On October 30 2010 01:55 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 01:44 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 00:07 Coagulation wrote:
How about instead of blowing up about imaginary references to your CIRCLE in my post you answer the question that you completely avoided.
why would we want to risk a chance of 7 people possibly being scum manipulating town with mayor when we can go with the much safer odds of only 1 person possibly being scum.
I'm at work. I answer what I can given the time that I have, but I have always come back and address the rest. This is not dodging. People who have played with me in previous games will know. I think you meant 6 people, as I said there are only 6 people in this group. Now why would Mafia include 6 of their 9 buddies in this circle? Why 6? Not 3, not 4, but 6? Assume what you say is true, all 6 of us are Mafia, how exactly would we "manipulate" town? What stops the other solo Mayor and his "non-circle" buddies to manipulate town? Different scenario, but the outcome can very well be the same. Everyone can debate about the "truth", but no one can argue about that fact that I did offer information, and I want/need protection. With me being Mayor, doesn't make me a dictator. I still need the help of the town to provide valuable input. im not saying there are 6 mafia in your circle as opposed to any other number im just saying there are 6 ''chances'' that mafia are in your circle as opposed to there only being 1 chance of a mafia getting voted in as mayor if we elect someone outside your circle. there are alot of scenarios obviously that can play out but i just want everyone to understand that there is an added risk to you being mayor. as for whether your ability as mayor + your plan with your circle outweigh those risk's is up for debate. my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting. I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
I'm open to all that's for sure. Transparency is one thing I was aiming for from the beginning, hence being upfront as much as I can. The only thing I'm asking for return is protection.
Like I replied to Ace earlier, making the people in the circle claim, and "organize" from there would be my first step - scum hunting from within. I do not know whether or not will there be Mafia in my group, but if there is, sooner or later there will be slip ups.
As an additional note, last night, I've already been in contact with 4 other members, and they all know I might be running for Mayor (It was before I officially announced my run). There is still one more player that I haven't been in contact with.
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Well Fishball said that he has additional powers on top of being able to communicate with those in his circle, so he's not just a random mason.
That being said, it does scare me to give someone who has that much power even more power. The secrecy could hurt the town more than it could help. Also, he has additional powers, so why can't he execute his plan without the mayoral position? He is pushing for the protection of Mayor as much as annul is, so why should we just give it to him?
On the other hand, annul is a master manipulator. Do I believe he can use his powers for good? Absolutely, he is a very good player. But do I think that he could be Mafia playing the town again? Yeah, and he's damn good at it.
It's so hard to make a decision of any sort without any idea of the possible powers out there.
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On October 30 2010 02:56 deconduo wrote:What we want in a mayor is activity (but not spamming), good thinking and experience. As was said before, I think bumatlarge is the best candidate. Pandain might be a good choice too, but the yum yum stuff does get on my nerves so I'm biased against him 
If you are just flat out comparing resumes, my resume should top these two.
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After reading the thread this morning I'm going to leave my vote for Pandain. I want to feel secure with the mayor and as great as Fishball's "circle" might be, the possibility of a mafia being in that circle is to great a chance to take. I also think the mayor being able to communicate privately is a recipe for trouble, Coag says it best:
my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
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On October 30 2010 02:58 annul wrote:
its what, 2 votes? if the vote is close enough (like, 16-14) where my one vote will tip the scale, then perhaps it is not "stupid" to have voted it, right?
the mayoral role is not really a town leader position. it's an extra set of lives and a very weak voting power that can be overcome easily (and is 100% transparent). i am playing along with the leadership meme because hey it makes sense, but think about what POWER the mayor has. the only power it has is protection and a weak voting boost. any other leadership that the town chooses to assign to the mayor player is entirely on their own volition.
why do we want to give death protection to a mason? there is no real reason we want to keep the masons alive above someone else who can actually affect things, right? so he has a circle, cool, what does that do for us and why would his death hurt the town, per se?
if i died it would be much worse than a random mason dying, that is all i am saying. are there others out there with roles better suited to protection? probably. but they aren't talking, so i will.
My bad, it seems that I misunderstood the mayor role. I thought they get to lynch one extra person.
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I don't understand why fishball thinks that he needs the protection by way of bodyguards. Are there no medic claims in your circle fishball? Since you proclaimed yourself leader of the circle shouldn't you be able to coordinate protection and dt searches within your circle to cover yourself?
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On October 30 2010 03:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:After reading the thread this morning I'm going to leave my vote for Pandain. I want to feel secure with the mayor and as great as Fishball's "circle" might be, the possibility of a mafia being in that circle is to great a chance to take. I also think the mayor being able to communicate privately is a recipe for trouble, Coag says it best: Show nested quote +my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Actually, the possibility with mafia being in the circle (extremely likely), is exactly why I'm trying to run for Mayor. If not for this possibility, this would be way overpowered.
It's not like I have some secret information that I'll be sharing with the circle. Let me do a very rough and simple break down of how it might look like.
If I become Mayor, I will request the other 5 to role claim to me.
Depending on the roles, assignment for their Day/Night actions will be made.
We roll from there. If anything doesn't add up, I'll be sure to know.
Again, this is a just a very rough presentation, and there is a lot more we can do to utilize this circle. Like presenting all it's members when the time is right, etc.
The Mayor is basically the most monitored role in the game. If I do anything extremely suspicious, the Town can easily lynch me off.
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On October 30 2010 03:16 DCLXVI wrote:
I don't understand why fishball thinks that he needs the protection by way of bodyguards. Are there no medic claims in your circle fishball? Since you proclaimed yourself leader of the circle shouldn't you be able to coordinate protection and dt searches within your circle to cover yourself?
First, I did not ask anyone to claim to me yet. Secondly, how do you know there is a Medic in my group? Third, how do you know the claim is true?
Bodyguard protection is absolute. Medic Protection is not. (Not including the virus here)
I never proclaimed myself "the leader of the circle". I only said my role is CRUCIAL to the circle. You mentioned DT coordination; Same thing, refer to the top of my post.
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On October 30 2010 03:22 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 03:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:After reading the thread this morning I'm going to leave my vote for Pandain. I want to feel secure with the mayor and as great as Fishball's "circle" might be, the possibility of a mafia being in that circle is to great a chance to take. I also think the mayor being able to communicate privately is a recipe for trouble, Coag says it best: my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Actually, the possibility with mafia being in the circle (extremely likely), is exactly why I'm trying to run for Mayor. If not for this possibility, this would be way overpowered. It's not like I have some secret information that I'll be sharing with the circle. Let me do a very rough and simple break down of how it might look like. If I become Mayor, I will request the other 5 to role claim to me. Depending on the roles, assignment for their Day/Night actions will be made. We roll from there. If anything doesn't add up, I'll be sure to know. Again, this is a just a very rough presentation, and there is a lot more we can do to utilize this circle. Like presenting all it's members when the time is right, etc. The Mayor is basically the most monitored role in the game. If I do anything extremely suspicious, the Town can easily lynch me off.
But the thing is, if you have the ability to converse in secret, and you end up being a Mafia Mayor, we will have NO idea if anything is fishy. You could have them roleclaim, give them assignments, and what have you, but we will never know if you want to cover something up that goes on in PM land.
The Mayor is the most heavily watched, but the possibility of the Mayor hiding things scares me. Everything the Mayor does should be out in the open, nothing should be private.
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My vote as to who we pick for mayor? I vote we go through the thread to find a decently active person who's posted relatively pro-town, but who hasn't yet tried to become mayor. This is probably a lot safer than trying to figure out which of the candidates is the least scummy. For all we know, the entire scumteam has just tried to run for mayor in a hilarious, balls-out gambit.
Also, don't listen to Fishball's idea for roleclaiming. If he's scum and he gets it, he can just roleclaim, the mafia can elect him godfather, and he can choose to appear as his claimed role. BOOM, almost undetectable scum mayor, town's in a major shithole.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Hmm - As mentioned by others, a mayor definitely has much more scrutiny upon his actions. If Fishball really is a mafia, I don't think he'd bring on even more suspicion on top of that by raising the issue of a private circle. We'll now know immediately if he does any thing seedy - and is that not what we want, especially if the so-called circle is indeed true?
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On October 30 2010 03:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 03:22 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 03:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:After reading the thread this morning I'm going to leave my vote for Pandain. I want to feel secure with the mayor and as great as Fishball's "circle" might be, the possibility of a mafia being in that circle is to great a chance to take. I also think the mayor being able to communicate privately is a recipe for trouble, Coag says it best: my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Actually, the possibility with mafia being in the circle (extremely likely), is exactly why I'm trying to run for Mayor. If not for this possibility, this would be way overpowered. It's not like I have some secret information that I'll be sharing with the circle. Let me do a very rough and simple break down of how it might look like. If I become Mayor, I will request the other 5 to role claim to me. Depending on the roles, assignment for their Day/Night actions will be made. We roll from there. If anything doesn't add up, I'll be sure to know. Again, this is a just a very rough presentation, and there is a lot more we can do to utilize this circle. Like presenting all it's members when the time is right, etc. The Mayor is basically the most monitored role in the game. If I do anything extremely suspicious, the Town can easily lynch me off. But the thing is, if you have the ability to converse in secret, and you end up being a Mafia Mayor, we will have NO idea if anything is fishy. You could have them roleclaim, give them assignments, and what have you, but we will never know if you want to cover something up that goes on in PM land. The Mayor is the most heavily watched, but the possibility of the Mayor hiding things scares me. Everything the Mayor does should be out in the open, nothing should be private.
Fair enough. Like I said last night, I cannot prove myself, I can only convince.
At this stage of the game, the only way to prove your innocence is death.
If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment.
Another way is to have DT's check me first night. I'm sure there are multiple DT's in the game, whether they are role checking DT's or alignment DT's. If nobody says anything, then all is good. But if there is any discrepancies, we'll know that either I am lying, or the DT is. (unless the DT is insane, then this game is really INSANE)
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On October 30 2010 03:33 BrownBear wrote:
My vote as to who we pick for mayor? I vote we go through the thread to find a decently active person who's posted relatively pro-town, but who hasn't yet tried to become mayor. This is probably a lot safer than trying to figure out which of the candidates is the least scummy. For all we know, the entire scumteam has just tried to run for mayor in a hilarious, balls-out gambit.
Also, don't listen to Fishball's idea for roleclaiming. If he's scum and he gets it, he can just roleclaim, the mafia can elect him godfather, and he can choose to appear as his claimed role. BOOM, almost undetectable scum mayor, town's in a major shithole.
Please read my post above.
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On October 30 2010 03:40 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 03:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 30 2010 03:22 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 03:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:After reading the thread this morning I'm going to leave my vote for Pandain. I want to feel secure with the mayor and as great as Fishball's "circle" might be, the possibility of a mafia being in that circle is to great a chance to take. I also think the mayor being able to communicate privately is a recipe for trouble, Coag says it best: my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Actually, the possibility with mafia being in the circle (extremely likely), is exactly why I'm trying to run for Mayor. If not for this possibility, this would be way overpowered. It's not like I have some secret information that I'll be sharing with the circle. Let me do a very rough and simple break down of how it might look like. If I become Mayor, I will request the other 5 to role claim to me. Depending on the roles, assignment for their Day/Night actions will be made. We roll from there. If anything doesn't add up, I'll be sure to know. Again, this is a just a very rough presentation, and there is a lot more we can do to utilize this circle. Like presenting all it's members when the time is right, etc. The Mayor is basically the most monitored role in the game. If I do anything extremely suspicious, the Town can easily lynch me off. But the thing is, if you have the ability to converse in secret, and you end up being a Mafia Mayor, we will have NO idea if anything is fishy. You could have them roleclaim, give them assignments, and what have you, but we will never know if you want to cover something up that goes on in PM land. The Mayor is the most heavily watched, but the possibility of the Mayor hiding things scares me. Everything the Mayor does should be out in the open, nothing should be private. Fair enough. Like I said last night, I cannot prove myself, I can only convince. At this stage of the game, the only way to prove your innocence is death. If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment. Another way is to have DT's check me first night. I'm sure there are multiple DT's in the game, whether they are role checking DT's or alignment DT's. If nobody says anything, then all is good. But if there is any discrepancies, we'll know that either I am lying, or the DT is. (unless the DT is insane, then this game is really INSANE)
I know you have said that you can't prove yourself, and I don't necessarily think you shouldn't be mayor. I think you are a good candidate. However, I feel it is necessary to play Devil's Advocate and propose worst case scenarios.
In your alternate scenarios, would you have been voted Mayor at that point? I'm not sure mayor can be role checked... Having yourself lynched would be nice as a consolation that we trusted the right person, but if you are a good Mayor, it doesn't really help us much.
Can the Mayor be rolechecked?
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DTs can't check the mayor (usually). Not sure if thats the case for this game but in general the rule is no night action, regardless of what it does, affects the mayor while bodyguards are alive.
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On October 30 2010 03:46 deconduo wrote:
DTs can't check the mayor (usually). Not sure if thats the case for this game but in general the rule is no night action, regardless of what it does, affects the mayor while bodyguards are alive.
This is true, as far as I know. Fishball, I remain unconvinced.
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On October 30 2010 03:46 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 03:40 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 03:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 30 2010 03:22 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 03:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:After reading the thread this morning I'm going to leave my vote for Pandain. I want to feel secure with the mayor and as great as Fishball's "circle" might be, the possibility of a mafia being in that circle is to great a chance to take. I also think the mayor being able to communicate privately is a recipe for trouble, Coag says it best: my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Actually, the possibility with mafia being in the circle (extremely likely), is exactly why I'm trying to run for Mayor. If not for this possibility, this would be way overpowered. It's not like I have some secret information that I'll be sharing with the circle. Let me do a very rough and simple break down of how it might look like. If I become Mayor, I will request the other 5 to role claim to me. Depending on the roles, assignment for their Day/Night actions will be made. We roll from there. If anything doesn't add up, I'll be sure to know. Again, this is a just a very rough presentation, and there is a lot more we can do to utilize this circle. Like presenting all it's members when the time is right, etc. The Mayor is basically the most monitored role in the game. If I do anything extremely suspicious, the Town can easily lynch me off. But the thing is, if you have the ability to converse in secret, and you end up being a Mafia Mayor, we will have NO idea if anything is fishy. You could have them roleclaim, give them assignments, and what have you, but we will never know if you want to cover something up that goes on in PM land. The Mayor is the most heavily watched, but the possibility of the Mayor hiding things scares me. Everything the Mayor does should be out in the open, nothing should be private. Fair enough. Like I said last night, I cannot prove myself, I can only convince. At this stage of the game, the only way to prove your innocence is death. If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment. Another way is to have DT's check me first night. I'm sure there are multiple DT's in the game, whether they are role checking DT's or alignment DT's. If nobody says anything, then all is good. But if there is any discrepancies, we'll know that either I am lying, or the DT is. (unless the DT is insane, then this game is really INSANE) I know you have said that you can't prove yourself, and I don't necessarily think you shouldn't be mayor. I think you are a good candidate. However, I feel it is necessary to play Devil's Advocate and propose worst case scenarios. In your alternate scenarios, would you have been voted Mayor at that point? I'm not sure mayor can be role checked... Having yourself lynched would be nice as a consolation that we trusted the right person, but if you are a good Mayor, it doesn't really help us much. Can the Mayor be rolechecked?
Generally when you rolecheck a mayor he will come back as [color=blue]Mayor[/blue] even if he has another role.
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*****Generally when you rolecheck a mayor he will come back as Mayor even if he has another role.
Mixed 2 types of BBCode. My bad 
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On October 30 2010 03:46 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 03:40 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 03:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 30 2010 03:22 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 03:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:After reading the thread this morning I'm going to leave my vote for Pandain. I want to feel secure with the mayor and as great as Fishball's "circle" might be, the possibility of a mafia being in that circle is to great a chance to take. I also think the mayor being able to communicate privately is a recipe for trouble, Coag says it best: my problem is this. If we elect you as mayor.. you will have communications with people outside of this thread(pm) that will influence the game and could be extremely vital to scum hunting.
I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him.
Actually, the possibility with mafia being in the circle (extremely likely), is exactly why I'm trying to run for Mayor. If not for this possibility, this would be way overpowered. It's not like I have some secret information that I'll be sharing with the circle. Let me do a very rough and simple break down of how it might look like. If I become Mayor, I will request the other 5 to role claim to me. Depending on the roles, assignment for their Day/Night actions will be made. We roll from there. If anything doesn't add up, I'll be sure to know. Again, this is a just a very rough presentation, and there is a lot more we can do to utilize this circle. Like presenting all it's members when the time is right, etc. The Mayor is basically the most monitored role in the game. If I do anything extremely suspicious, the Town can easily lynch me off. But the thing is, if you have the ability to converse in secret, and you end up being a Mafia Mayor, we will have NO idea if anything is fishy. You could have them roleclaim, give them assignments, and what have you, but we will never know if you want to cover something up that goes on in PM land. The Mayor is the most heavily watched, but the possibility of the Mayor hiding things scares me. Everything the Mayor does should be out in the open, nothing should be private. Fair enough. Like I said last night, I cannot prove myself, I can only convince. At this stage of the game, the only way to prove your innocence is death. If town wants to play it safe, a quick alternate scenario I can think of is to let me roll and try to gather as much information as I can for a few cycles. I then may or may not announce the remaining members, and release whatever information I can (depending on situation), and have myself lynched to prove my role and alignment. Another way is to have DT's check me first night. I'm sure there are multiple DT's in the game, whether they are role checking DT's or alignment DT's. If nobody says anything, then all is good. But if there is any discrepancies, we'll know that either I am lying, or the DT is. (unless the DT is insane, then this game is really INSANE) I know you have said that you can't prove yourself, and I don't necessarily think you shouldn't be mayor. I think you are a good candidate. However, I feel it is necessary to play Devil's Advocate and propose worst case scenarios. In your alternate scenarios, would you have been voted Mayor at that point? I'm not sure mayor can be role checked... Having yourself lynched would be nice as a consolation that we trusted the right person, but if you are a good Mayor, it doesn't really help us much. Can the Mayor be rolechecked?
Oh that's fine. Hence why I'm trying to reply as much as I can and share my thoughts on my lunch break right now.
Yes the alternate scenarios would be after I'm elected as Mayor, because if not, I'm almost as good as dead. To be honest, you should be asking "can the Mayor be alignment checked?", or both  .
On October 30 2010 03:46 deconduo wrote:
DTs can't check the mayor (usually). Not sure if thats the case for this game but in general the rule is no night action, regardless of what it does, affects the mayor while bodyguards are alive.
Depends on the game. We've had games that the Mayor was checked before. Also, we don't even know what kind of DT's are in this game. I only mentioned role/alignment DT's as they are the most common types, but this game is "insane" so who knows.
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EPT
