Other vet shouldn't claim: chance is not 2/23 because it repeats and gets more likely as the vet survives. Wasting mafia hits is how we survive longer; it's how we win.
TL Mafia XXVIII - Page 2
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
Other vet shouldn't claim: chance is not 2/23 because it repeats and gets more likely as the vet survives. Wasting mafia hits is how we survive longer; it's how we win. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Not BrownBear | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On July 20 2010 18:32 Bill Murray wrote: LOL SKYHIGH LOL more spoilers for playoffs in the mafia thread | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On July 21 2010 03:18 Misder wrote: Foolishness's posts interest me a lot. I'm not sure if he was targeted because of his posts or because he was active, but we can look at his posts. (these posts are in backward order>.< sorry.) + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 09:31 Foolishness wrote: You'd have an easier time if you look at lakrismamma or citi.zen If the mafia did target Foolishness for his posts, it seems to point fingers at lakrismamma or citi.zen. We can't be positive, but we can be suspicious, especially since most of Foolishness' posts are targeting citi.zen + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 08:30 Foolishness wrote: This isn't about me. This is about you. I gave reason for my actions. Where's your reasons on why you're acting "like Chezinu"? Most people are blind so let me spell it out for everyone. You're hiding something. It's clear that you're attitude is the result of the fact you know some information that you don't want everyone else to know. That means you're blue or red. I'm sure I'm not the only one to figure this out, and if you're blue I bet a mafia member has figured this out. And if you don't have much to say/don't have the time to write it all out, go get yourself replaced. By the way, shoving arguments against me to try to divert attention off of yourself is terrible. You should know me well enough I'm just going to keep pressuring you until you claim or until I get 75% of the town to vote for you. If you want me off your back, all you got to do is point out how someone else is obviously mafia and you're not. I mean, all you had to do there was say "I'm not mafia, citizen is clearly mafia, look at his posts; clearly scum". And if you were somewhat serious about it I'd totally divert attention off of you since citizen is such an easy kill for the town. Here, we see Foolishness attack DTA. DTA has been acting very very weird, and I agree with Foolishness about DTA hiding something. The mafia may be scared of Foolishness because of his attacks on fellow mafia members. This points fingers to DTA. Also, Foolishness makes it clear that citi.zen is a target for lynching, and that DTA could have pointed fingers to him. + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 08:12 Foolishness wrote: I do appreciate you making it easy for all of us on who to vote for as soon as day starts. Mafia have probably sent in their hits already. Just claim now. The earlier the better. More assertiveness. Very scary for the mafia. + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 08:05 Foolishness wrote: You might as well just roleclaim whatever blue role you have to the town. I mean, if the mafia don't kill you tonight they are either stupid or you are in fact mafia. If you aren't dead after night then you should be top priority for lynch. Of course, you could just actually act normal and help us out to save you a bunch of trouble. More attacks on DTA. I feel that this is an important quote, considering that the mafia didn't target DTA this night. + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 08:02 Foolishness wrote: The ordered by player list doesn't help for anything. The only thing that's useful out of these lists is tracking the changes of who was ahead in the voting and how they got ahead. For instance, youngminii was ahead in votes at some point (I believe), looking at who were the people that pushed Hyperbola over is what's important. You also need the timestamps of when these votes happen, in order to confirm if there was a mafia pushover. It's been said before, mafia spread out their votes as much as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only 1 mafia in the votes for youngminii and hyperbola combined. The only exception to this is if a mafia was about to be lynched, as the team would try to save that person. That's what we need to look out for. People already talked about this. That means we are on the right track. ##Vote: DarthThienAn because of his weird behavior and bring confusion. If he is a blue role or a townie, then he will need to defend himself in order to actually help the town. If he is a mafia, good. Let's not let this get lost in the shuffle. Red or confused green, I don't think BrownBear is much of a threat right now. From what I gather, DarthTheinAn is usually a pretty high profile player (won mayor two games ago). This game he is playing obstinate/quiet. When DTA was red mayor two games ago, "Darth was also an excellent mafia player, managing to sweep his way into office on day 1, but he did overstep his boundaries just a little bit on the last day, and his position as mayor actually worked against him as he was under intense scrutiny, which led to his downfall." Source for that is BrownBear, btw, so... take that into account however you will. But it seems to me if DTA was red this game he'd be trying to take a lower profile this time around. Some of this is [url=http://www.sirlin.net/articles/balancing-multiplayer-games-part-4-intuition.html]intuition, which I usually don't rely on, but BrownBear strikes me as town and reminds me of RedTooth in a game where I got him killed for similar behavior (I was red that game ). Meanwhile, DTA is clearly taking a low profile. From a player that is usually talkative, this usually means blue / red. I laid that on DTA day 1 and on Foolishness as well. Foolishness did make a bigger post towards the end of the day, but still seemed blue/red to me, and I imagine this was part of the hit reasoning (plus Foolishness is a good veteran player [whose first game was ran by me :D]). Now you may think that it is too obvious for the mafia to kill off someone who publicly calls them out. It's not. It's good strategy. In fact, I myself killed off Foolishness in a game I won because he was one of the few suspicious of me. If someone suspects you, they won't magically think you're innocent if you let them survive the night. People's heuristics for determining who they will vote for don't tend to shift too wildly over the course of a game. Even if people make a mistaken vote early, they will tend to justify it ex post facto and perhaps continue it (maybe what I'm doing here, but I think I have some good logic to back up my gut feeling). If you are mafia, and a member is getting 3rd/4th place in votes, even with just a couple, that member could be in 1st a few days later. By killing off the people who are suspicious of you, even if their reasons suck, you get talked about less and you literally shave off your vote total. It's not too bad of a strategy to just play whack-a-mole going after all your public detractors because you can always just say you're getting framed. I've been there, done that. I think Foolishness is right on that DTA would have been an obvious blue-snipe target. I'm not sure why D3crescentia might have been hit; he didn't stick out to me. I'm not familiar with him, though I've been out of the loop for a while and BC called him a top player. Finally, the Chezinu-style (constant trolling) play always strikes me as red. Maybe it's because I've been on multiple red teams with Chez, but, if you're trying to help the town, it usually pays to actually do so. ##Vote DarthTheinAn Also, the case against Subversion seems really good to me, too. I'm voting DTA first because DTA already has votes against him and DTA would seem to be the better brain to pluck from the Mafia Think Tank if they are indeed both red. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
@Infundibulum: You said "DTA - probable town, based on his behavior towards Foolishness." I got the opposite vibe from that, I'd just like to hear some more detail on why you felt that way. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
4] Subversion (tree.hugger, bumatlarge, darththienan, Jayme) 4] Brownbear (Divinek, amber, tricode. OPZ) 3] DarthThienAn (d3_crescentia, misder, Pyrrhuloxia) 2] chaoser (pandain, youngminii) 2] abstain] (brownbear, chaoser) | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On July 21 2010 09:06 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Guys, these players haven't posted since Day 2 began: 7. xelin 10. lakrismamma 14. SouthRawrea 30. roffles Xelin and lakrismamma are still AWOL. Care to say anything, either of you? | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
My Ph.D. Dissertation on DarthTheinAn by Pyrrhuloxia The Story Thus Far Day 1 Accusation + Show Spoiler + My thoughts: hyperbola is prolly just a quick trigger townie; I'd think a mafia would be too skittish to CONTINUE with it, especially when voting is so thin at this point. Mafia wouldn't have to be desperate as of now. Townie or red, hyperbola is obviously desperate now, with so many votes against him. But the desperation started and caused the bandwagon (according to Pandain). When the hyperbola bandwagon started, voting was evened out so there wouldn't be a need for mafia to bandwagon on someone. Mafia don't really tend to bandwagon anyone day one, at least they don't start the first bandwagon. They might start a second bandwagon to save someone's ass. Doesn't really help prove anyone innocent but I think hyperbola's behavior could be townie and the voting against him could be townie too. In better words, neither action really stick out at me as suspicious but no one's exonerated. Maybe if a team of people desperately work to save him there could be something going on. I'd like to hear why foolishness is so quiet this game. I've seen him in games as green and games as blue (DT). Both times he was really active and talkative and was somewhat of a leader with plans and so on. I've never seen him quiet and I've never seen him red. Could be an irl thing, could be something else. Darth...'s plan to "maximize" deaths on Day 1 strikes me as poor thinking. I get that it gets us information, so this could certainly be a townie sentiment. However, I've been red in many past games and I often got pissed off at how much harder it could be to win with just one more townie alive at the end, due to a non-lynch or something similar. At this point, my vote really is between Darth and hyperbola because it seems too late to rally the town anywhere else. Hyperbola strikes me as green running mouth. The reactions to that at least give the town something, even if he's red. Darth's hanging back and saying something that could be a subtle red move or a legitimate townie move. Yeah I double checked his other posts, and everything else is Darth clown spamming. As someone nicely put it: he's playing like Chezinu. So I can't be made to feel guilty about voting for him. Day 1 "Refutation" by the accused, wherein he admits he should be lynched, except not, because. + Show Spoiler + In my experience, mafia rarely actually "bandwagon". One or two might hop in for the final vote to kill someone they don't like over the current top target, but usually, they just vote wherever they feel like, based on their posting and what they've said in the past. The hyperbola bandwagon is just plain stupid imo. Anyone who was "convinced" by Siniquity's argument against hyperbola is also plain stupid. He gave poor reasoning for a random vote, but that does not make him mafia. A lot of the times, mafia play more like Siniquity, pointing out "mistakes" that townies make, and calling them scummy. My post was to contrast YellowInk's silly no lynch suggestion. Why are we even considering that? We need information. The game is about getting information for the town ASAP so that we can lynch/KP accurately. Therefore, we lynch a someone who is not already going to be modkilled. Pandain, I was only half-joking about it. Lynch someone who has voted but is not helping the town out. Someone like me, but, preferably, not me. And you're right, I was playing like Chezinu ^_^. He has inspired me. I might be out for the rest of today. Before you lynch me, consider how many other people have not posted, but have voted. For instance, d3, who is currently voting for me, but has said as little as I have said. Also, don't PM Opz, PM me!! ^^. Day 2 Accusation + Show Spoiler + On July 21 2010 03:18 Misder wrote: Foolishness's posts interest me a lot. I'm not sure if he was targeted because of his posts or because he was active, but we can look at his posts. (these posts are in backward order>.< sorry.) + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 09:31 Foolishness wrote: You'd have an easier time if you look at lakrismamma or citi.zen If the mafia did target Foolishness for his posts, it seems to point fingers at lakrismamma or citi.zen. We can't be positive, but we can be suspicious, especially since most of Foolishness' posts are targeting citi.zen + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 08:30 Foolishness wrote: This isn't about me. This is about you. I gave reason for my actions. Where's your reasons on why you're acting "like Chezinu"? Most people are blind so let me spell it out for everyone. You're hiding something. It's clear that you're attitude is the result of the fact you know some information that you don't want everyone else to know. That means you're blue or red. I'm sure I'm not the only one to figure this out, and if you're blue I bet a mafia member has figured this out. And if you don't have much to say/don't have the time to write it all out, go get yourself replaced. By the way, shoving arguments against me to try to divert attention off of yourself is terrible. You should know me well enough I'm just going to keep pressuring you until you claim or until I get 75% of the town to vote for you. If you want me off your back, all you got to do is point out how someone else is obviously mafia and you're not. I mean, all you had to do there was say "I'm not mafia, citizen is clearly mafia, look at his posts; clearly scum". And if you were somewhat serious about it I'd totally divert attention off of you since citizen is such an easy kill for the town. Here, we see Foolishness attack DTA. DTA has been acting very very weird, and I agree with Foolishness about DTA hiding something. The mafia may be scared of Foolishness because of his attacks on fellow mafia members. This points fingers to DTA. Also, Foolishness makes it clear that citi.zen is a target for lynching, and that DTA could have pointed fingers to him. + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 08:12 Foolishness wrote: I do appreciate you making it easy for all of us on who to vote for as soon as day starts. Mafia have probably sent in their hits already. Just claim now. The earlier the better. More assertiveness. Very scary for the mafia. + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 08:05 Foolishness wrote: You might as well just roleclaim whatever blue role you have to the town. I mean, if the mafia don't kill you tonight they are either stupid or you are in fact mafia. If you aren't dead after night then you should be top priority for lynch. Of course, you could just actually act normal and help us out to save you a bunch of trouble. More attacks on DTA. I feel that this is an important quote, considering that the mafia didn't target DTA this night. + Show Spoiler + On July 20 2010 08:02 Foolishness wrote: The ordered by player list doesn't help for anything. The only thing that's useful out of these lists is tracking the changes of who was ahead in the voting and how they got ahead. For instance, youngminii was ahead in votes at some point (I believe), looking at who were the people that pushed Hyperbola over is what's important. You also need the timestamps of when these votes happen, in order to confirm if there was a mafia pushover. It's been said before, mafia spread out their votes as much as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only 1 mafia in the votes for youngminii and hyperbola combined. The only exception to this is if a mafia was about to be lynched, as the team would try to save that person. That's what we need to look out for. People already talked about this. That means we are on the right track. ##Vote: DarthThienAn because of his weird behavior and bring confusion. If he is a blue role or a townie, then he will need to defend himself in order to actually help the town. If he is a mafia, good. Let's not let this get lost in the shuffle. Red or confused green, I don't think BrownBear is much of a threat right now. From what I gather, DarthTheinAn is usually a pretty high profile player (won mayor two games ago). This game he is playing obstinate/quiet. When DTA was red mayor two games ago, "Darth was also an excellent mafia player, managing to sweep his way into office on day 1, but he did overstep his boundaries just a little bit on the last day, and his position as mayor actually worked against him as he was under intense scrutiny, which led to his downfall." Source for that is BrownBear, btw, so... take that into account however you will. But it seems to me if DTA was red this game he'd be trying to take a lower profile this time around. Some of this is [url=http://www.sirlin.net/articles/balancing-multiplayer-games-part-4-intuition.html]intuition, which I usually don't rely on, but BrownBear strikes me as town and reminds me of RedTooth in a game where I got him killed for similar behavior (I was red that game ). Meanwhile, DTA is clearly taking a low profile. From a player that is usually talkative, this usually means blue / red. I laid that on DTA day 1 and on Foolishness as well. Foolishness did make a bigger post towards the end of the day, but still seemed blue/red to me, and I imagine this was part of the hit reasoning (plus Foolishness is a good veteran player [whose first game was ran by me :D]). Now you may think that it is too obvious for the mafia to kill off someone who publicly calls them out. It's not. It's good strategy. In fact, I myself killed off Foolishness in a game I won because he was one of the few suspicious of me. If someone suspects you, they won't magically think you're innocent if you let them survive the night. People's heuristics for determining who they will vote for don't tend to shift too wildly over the course of a game. Even if people make a mistaken vote early, they will tend to justify it ex post facto and perhaps continue it (maybe what I'm doing here, but I think I have some good logic to back up my gut feeling). If you are mafia, and a member is getting 3rd/4th place in votes, even with just a couple, that member could be in 1st a few days later. By killing off the people who are suspicious of you, even if their reasons suck, you get talked about less and you literally shave off your vote total. It's not too bad of a strategy to just play whack-a-mole going after all your public detractors because you can always just say you're getting framed. I've been there, done that. I think Foolishness is right on that DTA would have been an obvious blue-snipe target. I'm not sure why D3crescentia might have been hit; he didn't stick out to me. I'm not familiar with him, though I've been out of the loop for a while and BC called him a top player. Finally, the Chezinu-style (constant trolling) play always strikes me as red. Maybe it's because I've been on multiple red teams with Chez, but, if you're trying to help the town, it usually pays to actually do so. ##Vote DarthTheinAn Also, the case against Subversion seems really good to me, too. I'm voting DTA first because DTA already has votes against him and DTA would seem to be the better brain to pluck from the Mafia Think Tank if they are indeed both red. ---------- Wine In Front Of Me: An Informative Chat With Infundibulum: On July 21 2010 09:40 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Good point Pandain, i didn't remember that a couple of them said they'd be gone. Still, we can't let people slip under like this. The voting was extremely close, actually. It was 5-5 when he voted for Hyper, though he says he thought it was 7-4, and to be fair this is possible since there were mistakes in the vote tally and they weren't counted often. It's Subversions reactions that make me think he might be town who screwed up and is now in over his head. Well if you look back around page 27 or so, DTA basically goes all out on Foolishness quoting all of his posts, asking "are you so innocent yourself?" And then Foolishness gets killed by the mafia at night. I know that this is a bit of wifom, but i find it hard to think that a red would put himself out like that starting a feud with someone he was targeting. As you say yourself, it is wifom. I know from empirical experience that a red can do that because I've done it myself to great effect. What is not wifom is that the mafia benefits from killing off someone who currently had their vote aimed at a mafia member. The mafia can get away with killing people like that because when confronted about it, they can kick up that exact cloud of wifom that you described. Here's another way to think about it: The Mafia are trying to hurt the town as fast as possible by killing the best players. While we aren't in a position to tell who is doing well in a particular game, the mafia are. Certainly, the mafia can make a gambit and try to "frame" people by killing their prominent accusers. But, that's called a gambit because it is suboptimal play. Killing someone against you automatically means one less vote against you tomorrow. It means a chance of spurring new voters, but in practice I doubt it counteracts the benefits. This might not be too far from wifom, but I like the odds better than BB or Sub. It certainly can't be relied upon since it can easily be abused, but mafias that let their biggest critics survive will usually regret it. So it can't be abused in an infinite loop like wifom. Anyway, certainly its not an argument that could stand by its lonesome, but if you keep reading you will see that it is only one small part of a balanced breakfast. Additionally, don't forget that Foolishness voted for BloodyC0bbler as well, who seems less active than usual as well. ---------- The Ol' Switcheroo Already today, DarthTheinAn has changed his vote from Divinek to BrownBear to Subversion. I didn't even notice this due to how slippery DTA has been. Only two other players have unvoted once today, and DTA has unvoted twice. Seems like an awful finicky for how little we seem to have to go on. Day 1 he went: abstain>d3>abstain>amber[light]. I dunno what the fuck he's doing, other than not try to find and kill mafia with the rest of the town. If he's planning on getting serious at some point in this game and giving an explanation for all this sketchy shit, I adamantly suggest he reads this and does so at his earliest convenience. The Divinek vote was never explained. The BrownBear vote isn't really explained, just attached to a quote of BrownBear promising to be more active. He switches his vote to Subversion with some sarcastic joke, but does follow it up with an explanation mentioning the weird statement Sub made. This would probably be his most helpful post, except that this had already been pointed out by tree.hugger, protactinium, chaoser, and BloodyC0bbler. He seems more interested in having his vote end up in the right place then illuminating the rest of the town so that all of our votes can end up in the right place. It's Day 2 and he's already voted for at least 5 people, at least 7 if you count abstaining. And he even nice enough to let us in on his thinking for one of those votes. He's being less than useless at absolute best. If you're wondering why Bill Murray can't get a single vote count right, it's probably the frantic engagement sex. But this certainly can't help. ----------- Public Enemies No. 1 and 2 On Subversion, frankly, I think Citizen put it well: "I don't know... I am leaning with Pandain here. Subversion is a brand new player who does not know what to expect in these games. I can see him think... "How do you catch mafia? You watch for mistakes! Have we caught any? Nope. Ah - so thus far they aren't making too many mistakes." I see no huge red flag. That said, he does not strike me as someone useful for the town so I am OK losing him if there are no better candidates." It totally agree; I just think DTA is a better candidate. As for BrownBear, the entire case seems to be based on bandwagoning which is basically guaranteed to happen day 1, whether or not the mafia are involved at all. Tricode's reason for voting BB was his inactivity - he ought to be voting for one of the two people I mentioned above who've yet to say a thing today (Xelin and lakrismamma). No one has for Brown Bear for a while since Subversion became the flavor of the moment. Poor BB went out of style faster than shutter shades. ---------- But, but, but... Now maybe you are worried that DTA is blue, that he's trying to stay under the radar. I did describe his play this way earlier, but laying low was perhaps not the best way to describe it, and anyway he has become more active. Sometimes he lashes out at attackers; but, mostly, he ignores them and tries to get attention as the class clown rather than the suspect on trial. Foolishness had it pegged: "You might as well just roleclaim whatever blue role you have to the town. I mean, if the mafia don't kill you tonight they are either stupid or you are in fact mafia. If you aren't dead after night then you should be top priority for lynch." Acting weird is not a get-out-of-all-suspicion-free-card, because the weirdo might be a blue. Quite the opposite. But even yesterday he wasn't hiding; he responded to Foolishness's suspicion by turning it right back on Foolishness. He asserted that his goofing around was as valuable to the town as Foolishness's voting behavior analysis. I've noticed that DTA stays out of the discussions/town consciousness merely by refusing to defend himself. He doesn't attempt to use logic so no one chimes in to point out trivial inconsistencies in speech or vote counts with timelines more complicated than Zelda's. Meanwhile, BrownBear and Subversion are both bleating like goats on a sacrificial altar, desperate to defend themselves, so everyone focuses on them, even though half the town is complaining, wishing we had better suspects. We have one if you shake off the smoke and mirrors. Logic is the town's best defense. Midser and I both laid out very logical cases against DTA. DTA never responds to them: instead, he pulls a classic strawman. He quotes bumatlarge's convoluted and seemingly vacuous reason for voting DTA, and he quotes Zeks's reason which is merely that DTA is acting differently this game, which is just a small part, maybe 10% of the overall case. And EVEN THEN he doesn't answer these poor arguments - he makes a wisecrack for each and calls it good. And the town glazes over it, immediately returning to the regularly scheduled program: arguing about tweedledee vs. tweedledum. The bottom line is that this behavior allows DTA to set up a situation where he is never accountable for his behavior because he can just say he was fucking around. Don't believe me? He said he wanted to maximize deaths on the first day, and no one cared because he was "silly" but also "only half-joking." When Subversion says that the mafia aren't making many mistakes, the shit hits the fan. But with DTA, nothing can stick to him. Coupled with the fact that he refuses to acknowledge legitimate arguments, he is the absolute embodiment of the greased up deaf guy. EXECUTIVE SUMMARY / THE THREATDOWN / TLDR CENTRAL DarthTheinAn 1. Never defends himself with logic 2. Responded to Foolishness with a distorted counter attack and no refutation. 3. Blatantly ignores legitimate criticism to snark at strawmen instead. 4. Talks often, but without contributing anything new and useful. 5. Changes his vote often, usually without explanation. 6. Constantly "pretends" to be mafia. No red would ever be so daring! 7. Doesn't do shit all else. 8. Is supposedly capable of much better than this. Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the Godfather. He won mayor in his last game and could certainly win a GF spot. His weird, cryptic actions are complete role check bait and he's been begging people to PM him. Let's off him before one of our confused nubile blues gets molested. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Cool! You gave a whole bunch of Information Instead of Analysis![badtownplay] Oh hey guys, here's a bunch of stuff that was said about/by DTA and since I quoted it, you should trust me in that it points to him being mafia![/badtownplay] I analyzed that his idea to maximize deaths was weird, that he was either sarcastically being evil, or just advocating that we lynch for info rather than finding info to decide a lynch, which I find to be backwards. Also in there, I compare his play to past games, which is more analysis than just information. And I pointed out that nearly all of his posts were clowning around, which is unhelpful. There's plenty of other analysis in there, the line between information and analysis is gray area anyway but I clearly crossed it. + Show Spoiler + So you're saying someone that is as good as DTA (you're all making him out to be quite good, I'm not too sure how good he is), is bad enough to completely swap their playing style after their original style worked bar one or two mistakes? You really think he'd go from one extreme to the other as scum to 'avoid' suspicion? That's like the total opposite of what would happen (case in point: it's happening right now). Well, he obviously has switched things up, and good players tend to base their opinion about whether something works on whether they can win with it. + Show Spoiler + Oh yeah, intuition is awesome. We should always rely on our intuition to win us this game of analysis. I mean, clearly your intuition was correct about Foolishness being blue/red. Again, you're saying just because DTA is taking a low profile that he's scum. You can't just say "he's playing different, scum!" WHY does playing different make him scum, WHY does playing the total extreme of the way he played before make him scum. What about real life issues? What about the fact that he would be responding to these accusations if he really was mafia and was simply lurking? Well I was wrong about Foolishness, but you can contrast the fact that only I and maybe DTA seemed suspicious of him while DTA has been ringing alarm bells for many more people. I'm not "saying just because DTA is taking a low profile he's scum". In fact, you're clearly twisting my words at this point to defend DTA, because I specifically rebutted that claim in the but, but, but... section. + Show Spoiler + Cause and effect. Just because Foolishness was pointing at DTA doesn't mean that it's why he died. I mean, it COULD be but the way you're selling it is as if it's the absolute truth. Totality of the circumstances. None of us have the absolute truth, so we have to find the players with the sketchiest correlations. For me, that's DTA, rather than BB or Sub. The case versus Chaoser strikes me as better than BB and Sub, but not DTA. + Show Spoiler + That's just complete bullshit. I don't even know how the fuck you had the balls to come up with that list that completely condemns DTA and criticizes his play. You're assuming he's some horrible player and basing his scum play based on this assumption, when the general consensus is that DTA is a good player. 1. I pointed out numerous times when DTA responded to criticism with jokes. 2. The biggest exception is when he responded to Foolishness. But in that post he lumped together Foolishness's posts under the heading of "useless like mine" [not direct quote] when Foolishness was honestly trying to discuss the implications of the voting. 3. He's apparently finally going to respond to this stuff now that his life is on the line, but up till now Day 2 he has been content to pick out the worst arguments against him and joke about them. 4. As for "not contributing anything new and useful" he has frequently admitted as such. His post about Sub was maybe useful, but said four times already. 5. His vote changing certainly isn't bullshit, just check the list. 6. He has pretended to be mafia or suggested he might be in at least three posts. 7. I think that sums up his behavior this game until his post that finally responds to all this. 8. I haven't played with him, but have looked over previous games containing him and players in this game who've played with him before have felt the same. So, yeah, it's not complete bullshit. That list is not even 1/8 bullshit. + Show Spoiler + But hey, I don't mind if you lynch him. As you guys have said, he hasn't been very helpful this game. I mean hell, if he's blue/green it only buys me credibility which is needed for the late game. You don't get to say that you don't mind if he dies and then get credibility from defending him. I can't imagine why you'd give such a wishy-washy conclusion unless you are worried he might turn red and make you look bad. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
I wish I had friends so I could go see it . Going to movies alone is almost as depressing as going to restaurants alone. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On July 22 2010 07:43 Pandain wrote: Why would you vote for Chaoser if you didn't even know what he was being lynched for ? :o Doesn't really help that statement :/ Well he has to vote for Chaoser to save himself, anyone would do that. --- Everyone's last vote is serious, the problem with voting like DTA is that we can't know in advance that it's his last vote. We can't ever get too suspicious about his voting patterns because he can be joking. And if his joke vote causes a bandwagon onto someone, he can just keep it there and say he was serious all along. And if someone investigates afterward, they'll focus on the people arguing for the lynch not the guy who is just joking around. Unless someone points out what's going on and how it makes the towns life harder; then he'll have to start acting more normal like he has. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On July 22 2010 07:46 DarthThienAn wrote: 1. I only responded to criticism with jokes when it was criticism about my jokes. 2. Are you referring to this post? I'm not saying he's at fault for doing that, I'm saying he's at fault for doing only that. Alone, that is just his interpretation of one of the above posts but whoever was doing the vote summaries. 3. What arguments against me? Until the recent pages, there haven't been all that many if I recall correctly. If there were any that were REALLY worth replying to seriously, I would have already done so. 4. If it was said four times, then why didn't the person asking for clarification already understand it? 5. It's a bull reason to lynch me, though. My voting changing says nothing about my suspicions about who's mafia and who's not mafia. 6. so? 1. You responded to votes against you by zeks and bumatlarge with jokes aimed at their weakest /joking arguments when it wasn't all about that. 2. The point is that he was putting in honest effort to help town and discuss catching mafia. Which is the opposite of how you've been playing for most the game.3 3. The arguments by myself and misder that you've finally gotten around to acknowledging. 4. Your post wasn't addressed to anyone that I could tell. Echoing it again, doesn't hurt I guess, unless the echo chamber is drowning out more productive things. 5. "My voting changing says nothing about my suspicions about who's mafia and who's not mafia." That's a great reason to lynch you. If your voting doesn't match up with your suspicions, and you don't explain why you're voting, you are throwing around confusion sparks everywhere. Just because some of them don't catch fire doesn't make it any less dangerous or more helpful. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On July 22 2010 07:55 SiNiquity wrote: Perhaps there's some method to his madness? Yeah, soft blue it up, threading the needle between so obvious the mafia should have killed him and so useless + obviously green so the town will kill him. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On July 22 2010 08:03 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: 1. chronosynclastic infundibulum n. A point in space where, upon a person entering it, that person's existence in space-time ceases to be linear, becoming discrete. This means that a person that has entered a chronosynclastic infundibulum exists at multiple points and lines in space-time. For example, such a person could exist at all points in time in one place and also appear at another point for five minutes. From Kurt Vonnegut's "The Sirens of Titan." This needs to be a new Protoss unit's ability in Legacy of the Void. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On July 22 2010 07:56 BrownBear wrote: Could BM have put Village Idiot in the game for the lulz? ...Possibly. I've gotten two PMs mentioning this. | ||
Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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