Also, Floridan vote rigger lol
TL Mafia XXVIII
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BrownBear
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Also, Floridan vote rigger lol | ||
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BrownBear
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On July 17 2010 11:27 Misder wrote: So... are we lynching now? KILLMAIMBURNKILLMAIMBURNKILLMAIMBURNKILLMAIMBURNKILLMAIMBURN I mean, what? | ||
BrownBear
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I am back, sorry. Is it too late to avoid modkill? | ||
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On July 19 2010 08:08 Hyperbola wrote: Brown Bear Really dude? Jumping on a bandwagon before even reading the thread? My bad, didn't realize you could abstain. Should have done that, but at this point it's not like it really matters :/ | ||
BrownBear
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Roffles - your reason for saying I should be a target is because I haven't helped town at all. If I start contributing, by your logic you will no longer be gunning for me, correct? Actually, same question goes to everyone. My plan is to be more active today and contribute. If that's going to stop people from starting a bandwagon on me, that's all well and good. If everyone is dead set on lynching me, though, then 2 things: I'm not even going to bother, and you all seriously need to reevaluate your playstyles. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 20 2010 14:33 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: uh, what? so you make a bunch of shitty posts, people call you out on it, and you tell them that they're the ones playing badly? Not what I meant. What I meant was, if I stop making a bunch of shitty posts and play like the townie that I am, and people decide to lynch me anyway, they aren't playing well. Learn to read before jumping on people under suspicion, it really doesn't help their case. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 20 2010 14:44 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: You not playing well got you in this situation in the first place. But, I and probably many other people would be glad to see you turn over a new leaf and make some positive contributions. p.s. Elucidate your points and you won't have the problem of people misinterpreting your posts. True enough, I thought I had elucidated clearly enough, but apparently this was not the case. So it goes. Anyway, d3 took a hit last night - good to know. Hopefully him+medic was established before, because now that it's out in the open it would be very hard to confirm that whoever PMs him saying "I protected you" is actually medic. It's out in the open now, though, so let's take a look at it more closely: Case 1: d3 is as he says, a vet who took a hit. This is the most likely case, mafia would probably not take the risk of getting called out in this open of a setup. If he established connection with a medic before posting, that's all the better, we have two confirmed townies, and he can confirm the medic's identity if the medic is ever in danger of getting lynched. If he didn't, well... at least we have 1 confirmed townie. I hope d3 takes more of a leadership role in the town today, as his confirmed-ness could prove really really useful. Case 2: d3 is a mafia posing as a vet to attempt to take advantage of the town and pose as a confirmed townie. If he "forgot" to establish contact with medic before coming out to the town, that makes this slightly more possible, however it's a very risky gamble in this situation. I think town might be benefitted from vets claiming now, for the following reasons: Reason 1: If d3 is vet, the second vet claiming does nothing bad for the town, and provides another town leader-type role. Plus, I feel confirmed vets are lower-priority targets for mafia - they'd rather take out 2 people in one night than one really beefy one, especially when they have a chance of nailing a medic or a DT rather than a guy who essentially exists to soak up KP. Reason 2: If d3 is mafia, both vets claiming nets us an easy kill. Mafia will not fakeclaim in this setup for the following reason: If mafia fakeclaimes vet, we rolecheck/lynch d3, he flips vet, we just figure out which vet fakeclaimed and lynch them. I don't think it would be too difficult to figure out which is which. From my perspective, the only downside of having the second vet claim is that mafia won't target him instead of another blue, which is a fairly low chance (2/23 chance mafia targets the vet on a given night). I personally think having two confirmed townies (plus possibly a medic they can both know about). What are your guys' thoughts? | ||
BrownBear
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I still think both vets should claim, however. If we get more than 2 claims, we can deal with it as it happens. However, starting a town circle = good idea. | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:03 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: that was in response to pyrr I know. I was just making sure I pointed out the flaw in my argument before someone else decided to use it against me. | ||
BrownBear
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I think both vets should claim today. My reasons are below: Vets, unlike other blues, are not high-priority targets once they are out in the open. Mafia doesn't want to waste KP that could be better spent killing more people more efficiently. Vets, once confirmed, could have other blues PM them and start a town circle type thing. Because of the openness of this setup, the only vagueness we have is in which Town KP roles we have exactly. Therefore, if 3 medics or 3 DTs claim, the vets would know something was up, and after some DT work, some mafia would be going down. Therefore, vets could know exactly who the meds and DTs are, meaning that some epic coordination for protections and rolechecks could go down. Vets, unlike other confirmed townies, need no med protection. They's some beefy fuckas. Mafia COULD theoretically waste a KP to take them down, but I'm not so sure they would want to do that, rather than try to hunt down other blues. If more than 2 vets claim, we'd be sacrificing AT MOST 1 townie for 1 scum, and the scum has a 0% chance of survival. Lets take a look: Persons A, B, C claim to be vet. We DON'T lynch any of them today. We tell DTs (who should coordinate through d3) to check Persons A and B. If Person A or B flips red, we lynch them. If they both flip blue, we lynch person C. There are weird factors that could screw with this (GF, more than 2 DTs claiming to d3), but I don't think it's that likely. In most situations, we have a confirmed scum going down, and no red player is willing to take that risk just to splat a big beefy 2-night-life guy. Any thoughts? | ||
BrownBear
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On July 20 2010 15:08 DarthThienAn wrote: Are you kidding me? d3's smart, and hopefully won't let the mafia know what he is / isn't. ... He doesn't have to roleclaim, dude. He just has to say "i'm vet" or "i'm not". If he isn't, medic is going to keep protecting him anyway, and if he is, mafia will more than likely just leave him alone. On July 20 2010 15:11 Protactinium wrote: BrownBear: your post assumes that there are two Veterans? We do not know that there are that. If there is only one other Veteran and d3_crescentia claims that the logic goes to nil. Read the OP, sir. It clearly states there are 2 vets in the role list. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 20 2010 15:21 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: i don't think we want to give the mafia any extra information. it doesn't matter to us whether d3 is a vet or not, but it matters very much to the mafia. Fair point. If he is vet, following my idea = he'll claim anyway, so I guess we'll see. ... That is the single best fucking argument to lynch me ever. *facepalm* | ||
BrownBear
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On July 20 2010 15:23 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: BB, the main hurdles are 1) godfather posing as vet (null if he has picked a different role to appear as) and 2) mafia will snipe other blues basically, if the vets claim, their power (being able to absorb hits) is null. the mafia can get a near-guaranteed 2 kp each as long as they dodge medic protects. we would have to be able to funnel enough info to a CONFIRMED vet (would take at least 1 day to confirm) and organize a dangerous enough town structure before the mafia would even think about trading in their 2 kills on a vet instead of 2 kills on town players. i'm not totally convinced that vets roleclaiming is a good idea. 1) legitimate problem, and it's true that GFs tend to pick vet a lot. 2) I have to disagree with you on this one. I see vet as extremely useful as a confirmed townie. As an example, let me talk about a game I used to play a long time ago (back on squidi.net, if anyone still remembers that site), that was very similar to mafia. There was a role in this game called War Hero, who was basically a townie confirmed at the start who could be used as a rallying point for townies. Only problem was, he died a LOT, because mafia would stack KP on him (rightfully so, recognizing how dangerous he was). Then one host mixed it up a bit, and gave him 2 nightlives. The next game, he singlehandedly won it for town, because Mafia was suddenly not willing to blow that much KP just to kill one target, and he was able to rally enough town around him to form a town circle larger than the mafia team (which usually means mafia is screwed, unless they get really lucky). Veterans exist as meatshields. People tend to play them as "they exist in secrecy, so maybe mafia will target them instead of another blue role". Sure, that CAN work, but in a setup this open, I think it's a far better idea to have them claim. All the sudden, mafia has to stack 4 KP (more if medics protect them) to take out 2 confirmed townies, all for the price of depleting the pool of people-who-might-be-medic-or-DT by 2. With PMs allowed as well, the coordination possibilities and the sheer unkillability of 4 nightlives worth of confirmed town far outweighs the downside of not having those random beefy dudes in the pool. How often do you see a vet soak a nighthit anyway? In my experience, it happens maybe once a game, if that. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 20 2010 15:29 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: What makes you think it is an argument to lynch you? I dunno. There's a lot of people gunning for me right now. At this point, I have to see anything attacking either my position or me as an argument for lynch. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 20 2010 15:35 Divinek wrote: that's all well and good but since we are pretty sure our first vet has lost his first life, as soon as the second vet claims the suicide bomber just fucks him right up the ass. Im positive bm said suicide bomber insta kills vet We aren't though, is the thing. People seem pretty divided ATM, and I can't actually make up my mind. His post makes it sound like he was protected. Did forget about suicide bomber though. That might be a problem. | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:35 youngminii wrote: So a pretty interesting thing that happened was (believe me or not, it doesn't really affect anything) foolishness pm'd me this morning being pretty vague. He said something like he needed a few things for someone to check up on and that I could help him figure a few things out. I have no clue what he was talking about and by the time I replied he was already dead. Anyways, now that SC2 is back down I'm gonna go read through pretty much the entire thread again. Brb. Dammit. THEY ALWAYS GET TO THE GUY FIRST. | ||
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On July 20 2010 15:38 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: BrownBear i'd like to see more input from the rest of the town but i guess my sentiments on vets claiming boils to this: 1. the town wants the mafia to inadvertently waste hits on vets 2. vets claiming practically guarantees that this will not happen Yeah, that's how a normal setup works. What I'm saying though, is because we know the exact number of vets in this game, we can use that to our advantage and use the vets as confirmed townies, to greater effect. I believe coordination > random hit soaking, but I guess we have to agree to disagree. | ||
BrownBear
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Peace. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 21 2010 06:28 citi.zen wrote: Thanks for the honest comment, I understand where you are coming from. I am a bit puzzled as to the rest of the players though. Every time someone screams out a name for some trivial reason, there is a voting train: BB is playing bad, omg! DTA is playing different!!! Subversion said the mafia made no big mistakes thus far, wow!I Hyperbola did... whatever he did, he deserved it! Voting like this can turn out OK if you are lucky, but in most cases does not really help the town. Zero cost to cast a vote I guess... if you are wrong... so was everyone else... if you are right... ZOMG THIS KID IS PRO!!!! This. It's not a good tactic as town to just bandwagon everyone who looks suspicious. Because of this, and because nobody has yet managed to confince me that anyone is mafia, for now I will ##Vote: Abstain at least until somebody either scumslips (lol citi.zen in GF mafia) or people uncover enough evidence against a candidate to convince me. | ||
BrownBear
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So. Much. :'( | ||
BrownBear
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On July 21 2010 07:39 chaoser wrote: Hey, look on the bright side, at least I didn't vote for you =]. I'll go buy you a snow cone later if you're not mafia. Yaaaaaaay! :D | ||
BrownBear
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On July 21 2010 07:45 Pandain wrote: Actually, I do have one final question for you Brown Bear. Why DID You vote for Hyperbola in the begining. 1) Forgot mafia had started 2) got PM from BM reminding me that there is a game going on 3) Panicked, ran into the thread and voted for the first person I saw who had votes against him (Hyperbola) 4) reread rules, realized I could abstain, realized it didn't matter that much at that point anyway, as Hyperbola was dead, so didn't bother to change vote. | ||
BrownBear
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Chaoser, you keep contradicting yourself, and I don't really buy your explanations... | ||
BrownBear
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Right now, a little suspicious of chaoser, but not enough to vote for him yet. We'll see tomorrow if he posts more. | ||
BrownBear
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As far as those 3... I know I am green, but you guys are going to have to decide whether you believe me or not. Subversion's "mistake" isn't even a mistake at all, and you guys all jumped in and tried to create something out of it - not really the direction town should be going in. Chaoser I still find slightly suspicious, but he's been pretty willing to post and to defend himself - as long as he clarifies a few of his contradictions, I'd be okay with not lynching him. He might be a good target for rolecheck tonight, though. I dunno. For now, ##Unvote Abstain ##Vote: DarthThienAn Because he is the most suspicious, I think abstaining should only be used as a placeholder, and we're running out of time in this day. Plus, his death will give us at least some information, which is still better than the next-to-no information we would get from lynching subversion, chaoser, or me. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 22 2010 00:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Rastaban (and others), to clarify my double lynch vote: it's a bet that after tonights actions we will have more than 1 target on the next day. In my experience Days 3 or 4 are the best time to start the double lynch (which means for Day 3 we vote for double lynch on Day 2, etc). I don't like waiting until Day 5 for double lynch because too many townies can die by that time and it makes it harder to use one of our most dangerous weapons against the mafia. If you guys aren't voting for it today, you should strongly consider voting for it tomorrow. Fair enough, I prefer waiting until Day 4 usually, except in circumstances where the mafia have already been outed (successful DT check night 1, obvious scum, a lynch giving us a ton of information, that kind of thing. We've had none of that so far, so I'm not going to vote for it. I understand your logic though. On July 22 2010 00:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:It's "Infundibulum." I swear, everyone in this game has an impossible to spell/pronounce name. Maybe it's a defense mechanism. Nobody will vote for you because they don't want to be bothered to spell it out | ||
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On July 22 2010 04:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: people still discussing the crap of BB rather than just ignoring him based on stupidity. Hey, I still think it's a good idea. You don't have to agree with it, but you also don't have to call me stupid because you don't like my idea. On July 22 2010 04:53 Roffles wrote: ?? I never voted on Day 2. I just think BrownBear played Day 1 like a moron, and that Subversion's tactics are odd/newblike, but not necessarily Mafia like. Both true. At this point, I think we should be talking about other things. Namely, who do we want to protect/rolecheck, and more importantly, should we even be talking about things like that publicly? We have to remember there's still a suicide bomber out there. | ||
BrownBear
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I'm copying my reply to him here, because I think everyone should read it. If he feels like saying who he is, he can confirm that this is accurate. + Show Spoiler [my PM] + Yo, thanks for the PM. My inactivity was partially due to me working most of the day, and partially due to me scrubbing and forgetting that the game had started :/ My logic behind vet roleclaim was thus, and I hope this makes sense: In most TL Mafia setups, hosts choose to mask the number of certain roles actually present in the game (example: they won't tell you how many medics there are, only that medics are present in the game). This is to prevent situations like mass roleclaiming, where the town forces everyone to claim or get lynched, then checks the numbers against the numbers in the OP. This can be a very powerful town move if pulled off correctly, or give the mafia a ton of free blue roles to hit, but regardless, many hosts don't like it happening, so they prevent it from being possible. In a setup like the one above, its impossible to say "all vets claim" and get an accurate result, because you don't know if there are 1, 2, or 3, or maybe even 4 vets, so it's trivial for scum to sneak a fakeclaim in there. Thus, nobody claiming can really be trusted, apart from DT rolechecks or people who get protected from a hit/vets who soak a hit. Thus, in a normal game, vets fulfill the role everyone has said they should fulfill: They exists under the radar and hope mafia hits them, so they can soak a hit that would have otherwise killed someone. The problem is, this happens rarely (usually only once a game, if that), and somehow, vets always end up getting lynched. Thus, they aren't always the most helpful role. My idea was thus: Since BM has told us there are exactly 2 vets in the game, we know there are exactly two vets in the game. In my experience, as I mentioned above, vets don't always do their job (not their fault, its just "doing their job" hinges on another group outside their control targeting them). As we've seen in other mafia games (Caller's RO3K game is a good example), when town bands together and has good organization, it's really easy for town to win. Mafia usually wins if they prevent town from organizing in this way. Thus, I believe in this setup, the vets would actually be more helpful to town in the spotlight as town organizers, rather than in the shadows hoping to soak hits. As a vet has 2 nightlives, mafia has to waste an entire night just to kill one vet, rather than kill 2 others (and possibly hit other blues like DTs). This isn't something most mafia teams would be willing to do (especially if medics start protecting the vigis - they become unkillable). So basically, we'd have the vets claim. If only 2 claim, we're set, we just have blues PM them, and start an epic town circle. Vets would know if people were lying because of the openness of the setup: if 3 DTs claim to them, they'd know one of them was scum, and could probably figure it out pretty quickly. This would be a great way to coordinate rolechecks, medic protection, even vigi kills or Mad Hatter Bombs depending on which of those roles we have. Essentially, town would become a well-oiled machine and would screw mafia over. If more than 2 vets claim, we just have to rolecheck them, nail a mafia, and go back to the first scenario from that point out. Now, naturally this plan isn't perfect. There are three major flaws: 1) If GF decided to appear as a vet to rolechecks, it sinks this plan completely, obviously. 2) If one or both vets is inactive/doesn't read the thread, that also sinks this plan. 3) The Suicide Bomber. This role exists to counter mass roleclaims and to prevent us from telling medics to protect certain people IN THE THREAD. It's very possible that the mafia might decide to bomb one of the vets - but that's why we have two. Mafia would be trading a scum for a townie. Hope this makes sense! Ask me if you have any more questions. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 22 2010 05:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: BB you just outlined a plan that works in the elimination of a GF + bomber. You know that both are still alive, so arguing your point is what makes the idea dumb. IF GF + Bomber were dead, or hell if even the bomber was dead, it would be marginally reasonable. Instead you keep pushing a plan that we cannot in any way perform as of this moment. Why keep pushing it knowing that it can't succeed at this venture? seriously dude, that is why your getting called out for being dumb. Sigh. What happens in the case that GF decided not to appear as vet? Not a problem. Also, if you actually happened to read carefully, you would notice that i said SB doesn't necessarily break the plan - it just throws a wrench in it. It just requires more careful planning + execution. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 22 2010 06:03 Pandain wrote: Right now I believe the two viable decisions are either Chaoser or Darth. They are the two most likely canidates for actually being mafia. BB and Subversion are just new and people are jumping on them for really miniscule posts. The only one thing that could lead to one of them being mafia is Subversions deciding vote in favor of Hyperbola, however that is still unlikely because it is just as likely that 1)The Mafia didn't know of BM's miscount 2)He just voted at an unlucky time. So all those who are picking either BB or Subversion (especially BB) I urge you to change your vote and vote for either Darth of Chaoser. I would suggest Chaoser, just because I find him more likely to be mafia than DTA. To me, it still seems that Chaoser is just trying to get people lynched and DTA could be plannign something. Of course we should keep an eye on DTA, but let's not just lynch him and ruin anything he might be doing. I would urge you to vote Chaoser, but at the very least I humbly request all those not voting either DTA/Chaoser to unvote and pick one of them. Don't know where you've been, but I'm not exactly new at this point. I screwed up day 1, but I've played many games here before. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 22 2010 06:07 Pandain wrote: I think we're saying that this plan would just be more dangerous than it would be fruitful, so until we have more information to go on we shouldn't do that just yet. Also, as I currently understand it is quite common for the GF to pick Veteran so therefore it woudl be quite common that the plan would begin to deteoriate. I understand where you're coming from but as of now I do not believe your plan would be the most suitable for the town right now. Ok, that's a legitimate complaint. I'll accept that. | ||
BrownBear
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1. You must post your vote in this thread. Do not PM or IM it to me. 2. You must clearly declare your vote ie: 'I vote for X'. "vote: name" whatever. bold it. 3. You can not autochange your vote to the losing or winning bandwagon. 4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins over the other person. 6. You may abstain, but must let me know: ie: 'I abstain from voting'. 7. If you vote for double lynch you must vote for a player, or already be voting for a player, or you will automatically abstain. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 22 2010 07:43 Pandain wrote: Why would you vote for Chaoser if you didn't even know what he was being lynched for ? :o Actually the least scummy thing he's done so far. Logically, he doesn't want to die. | ||
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On July 22 2010 07:24 Bill Murray wrote: vote count: not voting: double lynch: day ends in under 5 1/2 hours here's to hoping this count is finally right! Since then, Rastaban has voted DTA, so it's now 8-7-7. So DTA could logically vote for subversion to tie the vote, but unless someone else switches votes, he still loses the tiebreaker. | ||
BrownBear
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...Possibly. DTA, if you are about to die, I think it might be time for you to consider roleclaiming... | ||
BrownBear
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So, here's what I'm gonna do ##Unvote: DarthThienAn Vote: chaoser (I refuse to vote for Subversion because I think the bandwagon on him is ridiculous.) However, Darth, here's what I'd like to see: Stop playing like Chez. You aren't Chez. You're DTA :3 It's not the jokes, I don't mind the jokes (and I got most of them), but I'd like to see you actually throw some more serious pro-town stuff in there as well. | ||
BrownBear
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That was one of the coolest things to read through. All of the mind games going on were awesome. Waiting on the death post now... | ||
BrownBear
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You will always be in my <3 | ||
BrownBear
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Town fucked up and lynched the wrong guy. Deal with it. At the very least, stop yelling at each other and start posting something constructively. I can bet you guys anything mafia is laughing their asses off at the thread right now, and maybe even contributing to it to keep it going. | ||
BrownBear
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Lol how many times have you had to say that in this thread now? | ||
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BrownBear
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Amber: Subversion is right, saying "How day 2 should have turned out" is actually scummy as hell. | ||
BrownBear
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On July 23 2010 02:42 Amber[LighT] wrote: I'm praying that the DT's made use of this lynch so we can pick out alignment. This should be apparent, but NOBODY SHOULD TELL MEDICS OR DTs WHAT TO DO IN THE THREAD. OR EVEN HINT AT IT. The suicide bomber is still out there. | ||
BrownBear
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So Amber, tree.hugger, citi.zen... shut up now. | ||
BrownBear
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Un-FoSing you, lol | ||
BrownBear
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BrownBear
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And start the discussion in earnest AFTER someone gets offed. That gives us more info. | ||
BrownBear
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##Vote: Cutiepie :3 | ||
BrownBear
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Lawl :D This never gets old. | ||
BrownBear
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BrownBear
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Seriously guys, this isn't helping us scumhunt. | ||
BrownBear
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Because every time I try to read through the thread and find something, I have to wade through tons of flamewar and bullshit, and it gets demoralizing. Also, I'm waiting for daypost. Relax. | ||
BrownBear
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s'all good bro | ||
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BrownBear
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So convince me we have 2 people we're pretty sure are scum before I vote dbllynch. | ||
BrownBear
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##Vote: Abstain ##Vote: Double Lynch (the abstain will change, obviously, but just incase some disaster happens it would be nice to cover all my bases) | ||
BrownBear
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To say it again, just incase BM goes by day post instead of time ##Vote: Abstain ##Vote For Double Lynch This will change, but it's bedtime for me and especially after almost missing a vote, I prefer to cover my bases in case there's a blackout/earthquake/disaster/whatever. | ||
BrownBear
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Also, sorry, Subversion. I was willing to forgive your "mafia aren't making too many mistakes" post as a newbie mistake, but you keep making these little scumslips. Also, if you want to defend yourself, you might want to post more than a few lines. I'm not going to vote for you yet, but you're very suspicious right now... | ||
BrownBear
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So, I'll echo: DO NOT CLAIM TO TRICODE yet, at least! | ||
BrownBear
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BC, I don't think you're mafia, but I think you are a bit too paranoid. I would caution we wait for the rest of the day before all running to citi.zen saying "OMG SAVE US MAD HATTER MAN!", because it's likely that half the players haven't read it yet, it happened pretty recently. So, to say this now: DO NOT CLAIM TO CITI.ZEN FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 12 HOURS OR SO This is so that if citi is lying, and there is another blue KP role, we give them enough time to read the thread, read this, and counterclaim. IF YOU ARE A TOWN KP ROLE, YOU MUST CLAIM NOW SO WE KNOW THAT EITHER CITI.ZEN OR TRICODE IS LYING We can't discount the possibility that Tricode is the liar, not citi.zen. If Tricode is the liar, then that logically makes BC look very suspicious too, as by this point you'd think another dayvig would have claimed if there was one out there. Either way, if there's a third claim, we know we've caught at least one or two of the mafia (hopefully we can nail the sucide bomber before he asplodes), which puts us in an alright position. Not great, because of the two mislynches, but alright. If nobody counterclaims after an appropriate length of time (I said 12 hours, it can be more or less depending on the general feeling of the town), then we should feel reasonably safe in trusting citi, and we can decide whether to go from there. We shouldn't just blindly mass roleclaim to him (very high chance he gets whacked or SB'd tonight), but we can talk about tactics when that comes up. There's still 24 hours in the day for us to figure this stuff out, so we don't have to stress over it now. For now, I think BC's logic on southrawrea is sound (note: I know I said that BC might be suspicious in certain circumstances, but right now, especially given the detail of his posts, I have no trouble believing he's town), so southrawrea gets my vote. It's also possible that southrawrea is a lazy townie, in which case this should be an excellent motivator. ##Vote: southrawrea | ||
BrownBear
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On July 25 2010 01:22 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Let me iterate what I think is the most important thought in my post: if the mafia send in a false claimer to sac himself and delay the plan, the outcomes of night kills can potentially stop the plan from happening at all They might not even need to sac someone. The SB could just blow the plan to shreds by himself. Well, ok, I guess they technically do need to sac someone. You get the idea. | ||
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Amber and tree.hugger bear watching - people have been kinda suspecting them all game, and now they're trying to prevent an overwhelming bandwagon on South... If south flips MH, citi.zen dies. If South flips red, we can trust citi. If South flips anything else... he's an idiot. | ||
BrownBear
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Sorry South. I don't trust you. | ||
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On July 25 2010 07:40 SiNiquity wrote: I bet Tricode and BC are cackling maniacally at their good fortune. Kill a medic, claim 3rd hit + protection (both unverifiable), draw out the other 2 KP roles. Let them kill each other. Bonus is that they're both hatters instead of vigilantes. So much for 50/50. You bring up a very good point here, and I think everyone should read it. It is still possible that Tricode is the liar, and there are 2 Mad Hatters in the game. | ||
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You all are so timid about picking a side. Jesus Christ. | ||
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Make your own fucking decisions people. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:12 rastaban wrote: Guys I have been staying quiet but I can’t anymore. I was hoping citi.zen would prove his claim but he hasn’t and I am worried about what his plan is. He has already gotten the DT claims. Before the real and asked for us to reveal the DTs. I haven’t heard from him since the counter claim. From Citi.zen: + Show Spoiler + A third DT claim did show up. Which is good - more people are giving themselves up. I will need the name of your Dt when you are satisfied there is no counter claim against me. My DT can then check one of the two and find the real one as well as the red. ----------------------------------------- Original Message: Wow, I did't expect that much to go down last night. I think you might have just given us the break town needed to turn this around. I believe at this point if someone was going to claim they would have. The DT felt the same way so I was asked to go ahead and move forward with contacting you. Let me know what we should do next. Thanks, He hasn't mentioned this in the thread, I hate putting myself out there, but if he is playing us I am sure another mouth can confirm. Wait what? You know the identity of a DT, is that what you're saying? | ||
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rastaban has a DT citi.zen has a DT youngminii has a DT Could 2 of these be the same DT? Or have we caught a falseclaimer/the GF? | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:27 rastaban wrote: Intead he asked us to give up our DT names... I don't like it. And just like last game when he was GF he has gone completely silent when suspicion is cast on him And you're saying this is worse than SouthRawrea saying "Hey citi if you're MH, tell us who your bombs are on" post? | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:29 rastaban wrote: Well last game he was caught when he tried to define his fake roleclaim. True, but that doesn't change the fact that trying to get MH to say who they put their bombs on is a very scummy move. It's not worth possibly messing up a fakeclaimer when it's far more likely that they're legit, they say who their bombs are on, and mafia hits them to take out 2 or 3 people in one go. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Except if any of those bombs are on mafia, they lose up to two of their members as well. Tree hugger has already gone over this. It's roughly a 1 in 5 chance that this is true. Your math sucks. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Except factor in his skill level and he will most likely have at least 1 red, if not two. Do you not weigh all the variables into your equations? You're getting too WIFOM for my tastes. I don't like to take chances like that. There's no way to be certain that citi.zen has a bomb on mafia, thus, it's very silly to assume that he does, and thus can safely claim. Seriously, you were on my case a couple days back for shitty logic. Now it's just the pot calling the kettle black. | ||
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I am not entirely convinced this is a good idea. BC has been pissing me off over the last few pages. I still am not sure whether or not SouthRawrea is claiming truthfully. If this ends poorly, then town as a whole is screwed. In these times, I usually tend to vote based on my own analysis and reading of the thread, not the will of the town or the bandwagon du jour. Because I've seen, too many times, the town be wrong. The analysis be flawed or scummy. Town lose a critical vote because rather than see the plain-as-day evidence in front of them, they followed their gut instinct or one person and all voted the wrong way. This is why I was reluctant to change my vote earlier: I didn't think you guys were voting with analysis, I just thought you were following tree.hugger and BC blindly. But there's been mounting pressure, both in the thread and by PM, for me to change my vote. And you know what? I want some fucking answers from citi.zen. I want to know where he's been during this crucial day. I want to know why he wanted the names of the DTs. I want to know why he didn't tell us fucking immediately when he got 3 DT claims. I want to know why rastaban had to blow the lid on that little gem there, via PM reveal no less. I want answers to all of these. And to the people who said lynching citi gives us more information that SR? You're right. If citi flips anything but red, it gives me a whole laundry list to work through So ##Unvote ##Vote citi.zen God, I hope all of you are right. | ||
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This makes it all the more important that we vote double lynch NOW. | ||
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On July 25 2010 08:55 bumatlarge wrote: Or they are innocent and south is the scum :/ if they are innocent it's extremely unlikely they'd invest themselves/their reputation in this game THAT MUCH into preventing him from being lynched today. | ||
BrownBear
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My list of people who I suspect if this goes poorly (in order of me remembering them ): BC tree.hugger Pandain Amber[light] SouthRawrea My list of people who I suspect if citi flips mafia: youngminii zeks maybe? citi.zen (but he'll be dead lol) Let's see what happens. | ||
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If you aren't, die scum die :D | ||
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Day ends in 6 min... | ||
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On July 25 2010 09:58 Pandain wrote: Tricode has an ndying hatred of BC and always wants to kill him. That is a fact of nature. Mafia constants: Chezinu cannot be trusted to say anything useful Ace and BM share a deep hatred of each other Flamewheel is adorable Abenson sucks at mafia Brownbear will fuck up if you ever give him the medic role (and Korynne will be sad) Tricode will try to kill BC every chance he gets | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You forgot Qatol is always blue, even if hes green Ver, magically appears to break games in two with his mighty ability Incognito, hes always incognito I'm too new to have played with Qatol or Ver T_T Did forget the Incognito one though. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:04 tree.hugger wrote: Meeple will always protect mafia. L will try to bandwagon Ace L will create about 60% of the posts in any game he plays in. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:07 Amber[LighT] wrote: that shouldn't be discussed at this time. Wait for the night post at least... Shouldn't be discussed period. Suicide Bomber... South, make your own decisions. | ||
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Lol I see your point. | ||
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THE LIST BC tree.hugger Amber[light] SouthRawrea Pandain Time to go get drunk and watch Celebration of Lights, cya guys tomorrow. | ||
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On July 25 2010 10:18 Divinek wrote: i highly agree with this list good sir, i might re order it slightly but it is solid none the less Add Pandain to that list, he's the one who convinced me (via PM) that I should switch to citi.zen. Pandain, I <3 you soooo muchhh. Our super secret PM friendship will be eternal. But you convinced me to vote for the wrong dude :'( | ||
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My (revised) hit list: BC tree.hugger Amber[light] SouthRawrea Tricode maybe? There's still a chance he's telling the truth... Either way, I'm off to go to dinner/get drunk/watch Celebration of Lights now for realz this time, so I'll post tomorrow. Peace. | ||
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zeks claimed wut. Deal with it tomorrow. Peace | ||
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I like the starting point of BC, and SR as people who DIDN'T vote for doublelynch, as well as people who are very suspicious to me - SouthRawrea fakeclaimed MH (and we know this for certain now, zeks was real MH, and mafia probably won't kill him for 2 reasons: If he dies and flips MH, SR is dead, also bombs on BC and SR. No way to know for sure until the morning though.) BC put waaaaay too much energy into defending SouthRawrea, focusing on lynching citi.zen (for shitty reasons I might add), and basically scumslipped - there's no way he would care as much as he did about us not lynching SR unless they were teammates. The amount he cared also leads me to suspect SouthRawrea might be a mafia power role, either GF (maybe posing as a mad hatter?) or SB (if we could take SB out by lynch I would be so happy). So what I'm thinking is: zeks maybe moves a bomb tonight off of one of the two (zeks chooses so mafia doesn't know for sure), we lynch that guy for sure, and then figure out a secondary target, while keeping the bomb on the other as a precaution? Welcoming thoughts/criticism/suggestions. | ||
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He revealed the identity of someone he thought was confirmed DT, publicly in the thread during a motherfucking night cycle, just because he didn't get his way the last day cycle. Town is really lucky as fuck that Pandain was just a mouthpiece for the real DT, but that could have ended so poorly. If that's wasn't terrible play, I don't know what is. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Except you can pm anyone saying "sup your green" A mafia can guess those odds rather easily, and if citizen calls em out its a simple matter of two people arguing over whos word is more legit. In your case you can say he was checked, or the like, but he lied about his role in a situation where him flipping makes your/dt role questionable rather than confirmed. Sorry dude. It's a huge gamble on mafia's part, especially in this game. There's a 1 in 3 chance they PM a blue role saying "sup you're green" and that's the equivalent of saying "Hello I am scum please lynch me mmk?" | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: actually yes yo ucould guess the odds of hatter. 2 kp roles, 1 vig 1 hatter makes sense as otherwise you have more Night total kp than mafia unless suicide bomber hits a person being checked by multiple blues. Nice try though. Yeah, but how do they pick the MH out of a lineup of 19 town players? It drops to a 1/19 chance that they PM the right guy saying "sup you're MH". Your logic, again, is fundamentally flawed. Nice try, though | ||
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I'm voting for you and SouthRawrea at the start of the day. The only way I'll change my vote is if someone who isn't either you or SouthRawrea convinces me otherwise. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:44 SouthRawrea wrote: Hello, I would just like to inform you that all posts were written of my own volition and were written by me . I would like to begin by stating, damn this didn't work out the way I wanted it to. You see: I'm not actually Mad Hatter. I'll explain it all in the day. Not mafia either by the way. Then WHY THE FUCK DID YOU CLAIM. YOU IDIOT. YOU GOT CITI.ZEN KILLED. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:44 SouthRawrea wrote: Hello, I would just like to inform you that all posts were written of my own volition and were written by me . I would like to begin by stating, damn this didn't work out the way I wanted it to. You see: I'm not actually Mad Hatter. I'll explain it all in the day. Not mafia either by the way. No, you'll explain right fucking now, or else you run the risk of mafia killing you and you not getting to explain at all. | ||
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On July 26 2010 06:55 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: I seriously hope everyone in this game dies at once tonight. :'( Whyyyy | ||
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On July 26 2010 07:06 SouthRawrea wrote: Kk don't wanna get killed so BloodyCobbler is actually the Mad Hatter claimee. He PMed me on day 2 (if I can count) telling me that he placed a bomb on me. He then explained that he PMed me because if I were mafia I wouldn't be able to kill him without getting killed. I trusted him because of this reasoning. I initially counter-claimed late when he msged me but yeah.. people started voting me even more so I tried to get Citi.zen lynched. This way I would know if Cobbler was telling the truth. Last night's green claim completely threw me off because Citi.zen was in my position except with a DT. I'm so fucked in the head right now .. sorry if I completely ruined the game. It must be the dynamics of a game so big or just the fact that I'm so damn stupid. Not sure if I screwed up in any other way while I was inactive.. :/ Minor brag post: OMG I TOTALLY FUCKING CALLED IT. I still don't believe you, though. You and BC have been too ridiculous to be able to claim this with any credibility. | ||
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On July 26 2010 07:09 SiNiquity wrote: lol k so here's the plan. Party at my place tonight. Everyone's invited. IT should be a blast. lol I see wut u did thar | ||
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On July 26 2010 07:12 chaoser wrote: well, I guess we got our two lynchs for tomorrow... Already was planning on it. Plans aren't changing. | ||
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EVERYONE SHOULD VOTE FOR DOUBLE LYNCH AGAIN. NO QUESTIONS, JUST DO IT. | ||
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I will post and vote much later tonight. If I die, lynch both these morons for me ^^ | ||
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On July 26 2010 07:30 Pandain wrote: *1 week later* Pandain: Man, I can't believe every single one of us got the role Village Idiot by accident. Brown Bear: Yeah, I know right? Also South, you better be able to defend yourself. hahahah so true <3 Also, bumatlarge's response is the best ever. | ||
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On July 26 2010 08:14 tree.hugger wrote: So that vote when we were choosing between citi.zen and Southrawrea because both were roleclaiming MH, and only one of them could be correct? Well it turns out that when citi.zen claimed, he was actually doing it as a proxy, so in fact the entire assumption based on that lynch was invalid. Should've lynched Southrawrea then. Damn we screwed that up. Except Southrawrea was acting as a proxy for BC so in fact the whole reason between us lynching people the last day was a card tower of lies. Hahahaha! Ahaha! .... Ha!.... ... I advocate the immediate lynching of Zeks and BC because if we're going down, we might as well take out the dishonest anti-town players who got us into this mess. *ducks in* Even after their plan has completely gone to shit, he's still trying to save South. Unbelievable. *ducks out* | ||
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##Vote: SouthRawrea ##Vote: Doublelynch | ||
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After the results of today's lynch, we will decide who to lynch next. | ||
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I really think the town should have the full 48 hours, and then the lynch happens at the end of it. Ending the day early for them just seems unfair to town, especially those who are in different time zones so may not be able to access the thread until after majority has passed. I can see a scenario where a townie has critical information for the town, but something like this happens and the lynch happens before he can share it. It just doesn't seem that balanced. | ||
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Just ignore him and the problem will resolve itself. In a very short, terminal fashion. | ||
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You fuck with town, town fucks with you. If you really aren't red, I'm sorry, but your play has been too scummy for me, and I trust Pandain a hell of a lot more than I trust you. Thus, I'm voting for you, and if there's gonna be someone to change my mind it sure as hell isn't going to be you. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:40 Tricode wrote: Can you provide any definite proof of your claim of BC? I would like an explanation that isn't bullshit or a manipulative of what actually occurred. If you can provide me with that information then I will ignore BC and vote for him. 1) BC decided my roleclaiming plan was idiotic, despite the fact that it benefits town. 2) BC decided instead of going for South (who was 99% confirmed mafia) we should go for citi.zen. You see how that turned out. 3) BC hasn't really been sparking town discussion, he's been flaming people, calling every plan stupid, deriding every player as playing poorly, etc. This is very scummy, as he is intentionally trying to break down town unity rather than build it. 4) BC has been on the wrong side of every vote so far. You want more? I've got more. | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:47 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Not bothering with the rest of your post, but this is demonstrably false. Anyone can go back and read my vote list at the bottom of Page 132 and see that you either have a very poor memory or are lying. Day 1: He votes for Pandain. I believe Pandain is green, thus I believe him to be voting for the wrong person for the wrong reasons. Day 2: He votes for Amber[light]. Again, a person who i believe is green. Again, wrong side of a vote. Day 3: He votes for citi.zen. Very wrong side of a vote. Your point was? | ||
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On July 26 2010 15:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Your roleclaim plan was flamed by more than me, don't try to finger me on that. South was analyzed and pulled out by me? then I went for a person who turned out to be lying and whos plan lost tons of credibilty for it. Surprise, surprise, I was wrong about his alignment, but correct on his plan being riddled with issues. Sparking town discussion? I have been doing so since I got back from work, hell, i started the discussion on citizen's plan that till then everyone was like "YEA LETS AUTO TRUST 100%" and the guy was lying. As for wrong side of vote so far? Citizen flipped liar. Amberlight has not flipped period, nor has pandain, and look pandain has turned out to be a liar as well. Dude, if you want to analyze and finger me to death, care to well not blatantly lie? You need to calm down and stop lying. citi.zen did not flip liar, he flipped mouthpiece. HUGE difference. Mouthpiece does NOT equal liar. Mouthpiece is a legit strategy designed to protect blue roles. Stop calling it a lying strategy. My roleclaim plan was flamed by more than you, but you were the most vocal from my perspective. You also have personally attacked me many times, which I don't like. Stop doing that. And regarding citi.zen's plan? That was a legit plan he had with zeks. Both are confirmed town. Your "sparking town discussion" fucked that up. If that's not red play, I don't know what is. See, at this point, you'd really better hope you flip red. If you flip red, I'll accept all of your play as good mafia play. If you don't I really will just have no respect for you as a player anymore, because your town play this game has been absolutely atrocious. | ||
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I'm going to cool off for tonight, read it tomorrow, and make sure I'm voting for the right reasons, not the emotional/wrong ones. That's the best you're getting, BC. Whatever decision I make tomorrow, I'm making it because I believe it's the best decision for the town. So don't bitch about it when it happens. | ||
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On July 26 2010 16:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote: No, he blatently lied about being hatter. He refused to even address criticism to his plan, and tried his best to not have discussion. Him lying about his role means he flipped as a liar. His townie role means dick as it didn't instant prove SR was red, it means someone in his group had to be verified instead. Someone lying about role, refusing to talk about his plan in detail, refusing to answer criticism is actually the key features of someone playing anti town. If it was perfect he would have addressed these points. Also with a legit dt actually dead, and zeks still alive with a "claimed dt circle" of a liar, He's not confirmed. HE is likely legit, but not confirmed. I don't get where you find these random reasons to confirm people without real evidence to do so. I'm sorry you didn't see the problems with it, I am sorry that you believe that citizen was incapable of being lied to, I am sorry that you trust things in mafia so black and white when the game is shades of grey. See above post. I'm out. Night! :D | ||
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Bill, please for the love of god stop letting people edit posts. | ||
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Many people. The problem is, he's given them permission every time, and I really don't like it. | ||
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On July 27 2010 11:01 Subversion wrote: Divinek's sig drives me mad lol. I think the puck is black because the ice is white, not the other way around A GHOST HOLY SHIT ITS A GHOST | ||
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Digitally downloading it tomorrow... then won't be able to play until Wednesday T_T Stupid camp counselor job lol | ||
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Tomorrow, tree.hugger and a yet-to-be-decided-on fourth. Town, we got this :D | ||
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On July 28 2010 14:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: haha, dude, you actually gained alot. BM said majority lynch, I hit majority like 36 hours before post went up. Soon as I saw i hit majority I stopped checking here. Rule revisions/ignorings rock from hosts. Regardless, GG also thanks for not being retarded over this last day. Once game is over, I will have a semi large writeup to share with you all weeee. GG man, sorry for kinda losing my temper at you last night | ||
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But... our secret friendship... nooooooo I'm still willing to believe he's miller, but if it's what town wants... | ||
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On July 28 2010 14:29 Divinek wrote: i had strong thoughts bc was mafia just based on how he'd been posting (even if that was only based on how he played one game previously) and his pms to me but he's such a persuasive asshole, damn experienced players BC is damn good at this game. He almost had me convinced yesterday. | ||
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On July 28 2010 14:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Shit, for real? rofl. I did way better than I was thinking I had. SOOOO thought I had only stalled you. Haha yeah, I was on the verge of at least changing my vote off of you to tree.hugger or someone else, but in the end just decided "fuck it, stay the course". Kinda glad I did, no offense | ||
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On July 28 2010 15:14 ~OpZ~ wrote: Xelin is a good check tonight mr. Dt... Suicide bomber is still in the game... | ||
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On July 28 2010 15:25 ~OpZ~ wrote: Well fine, Xelin is a good lynch candidate then? You happy? -_- We need another one right? I mean I was happy lynching pandain and tree.hugger, but if you would like to contact whatever circle and inform them to check one of tree.hugger/xelin, then be my guest. Pandain came up as mafia it has been said, So i'm assuming we instagib him, right? I'm a fan of tree.hugger or xelin, but one of them dies tomorrow. I still think there's a second miller out there somewhere, just as a heads up. | ||
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Hence, spamfest. | ||
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On July 29 2010 07:31 flamewheel wrote: My name is flamewheel, and I did not buy SCII! All I want to do is play campaign, anyway. So far, even if SCII had been just campaign and no multiplayer, I still would have paid 60 bucks for it. So I recommend it :D | ||
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Who's gonna take the futuristic equivalent of a crazed berserker charging to the face? | ||
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On July 29 2010 10:45 Pandain wrote: oops meant night. Also, xelin was joking about claiming IT right? Why would he actually say he's IT Because he's going to explode tonight? We can't do shit about it, so why wouldn't he claim, even if just to mess with us? | ||
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##Vote Pandain ##Vote: Divinek | ||
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Plus, our secret friendship alliance is unbreakable :D ##UNVOTE: PANDAIN ##VOTE: MISDER ##KEEP VOTE ON DIVINEK If he flips miller I shall be vindicated. | ||
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ROLES STILL ALIVE 14 Total Scum: 3 vanilla scum Town: 2 vets Vig (Tricode) Miller (Pandain) 7 vanilla town So here's confirmed town-aligned list: BrownBear Amber Young Pandain Tricode d3 Still 5 town and 3 scum out there, off of this list: tree.hugger Divinek chaoser rastaban Opz Misder Pyrrholuxia Protactinium Of these: I think tree.hugger, divinek, and Protactinium are the most suspicious. Divinek for sure should be looked at closely when Pandain flips miller. I think rastaban is likely innocent. SO, remember that day 2 plan I had where the vets claim? I think we should do that now. There's no reason not to at this point. | ||
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I really wish zeks had told someone else who all the blues were. That would have made the game a lot easier. | ||
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On July 30 2010 05:01 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Wouldn't BrownBear be more suspicious for suggesting it? Seems like Amber is just kidding around. lolol really? We kill 1 mafia today, it takes mafia 2 night hits to kill a vet. Makes them more or less invincible. Also, every confirmed townie we can get at this point raises our chances, especially big beefy ones that can soak hits. Really, the idiocy of town this game... | ||
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On July 30 2010 05:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: We want the mafia to waste hits on veterans - this will give us more time to kill mafia. VETS - DO NOT CLAIM. If you are a lynch target, THEN you can claim or go through a mouth or find some way to save yourself. | ||
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Here's my post, I buried it in the quotes >< Actually that's a better plan, lol. OFC, once one vet claims we should have the other claim as well. This will help prevent mafia fakeclaiming vet (which they will, i expect). So if a mafia fakeclaims, both vets will step up and say "I'm vet" and we know we have one mafia caught. Is that acceptable? | ||
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##Vote: tree.hugger Still think he's scummy, and where's he been? | ||
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On July 30 2010 08:27 Divinek wrote: why would i let someone who fucking dt checked red defend themselves it is an unproductive waste of towns time you look scummy to me bro i also already claimed vet so if you're voting for me without any evidence that im not a vet you're bad bro I must have missed that, where did you claim? Also, no. Under no circumstances should anyone be ignored if they want to defend themselves. Your narrow-mindedness is part of the reason town's doing as poorly as they are, and it's really getting on my nerves. | ||
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On July 30 2010 08:34 Divinek wrote: whyyy should i be looked at so closely. For pushing hard to kill someone that dt checked red? What more do you want us to do man, decide not to vote for people who dt check red? We have to lynch them as soon as we can anyways given the good odds we have of reducing mafia kp just from that kill alone Because if mafia see a miller get checked red, they usually tend to push very very hard to lynch that person? Mafia loves having a free day essentially, so they tend to push hard in situations like this, whereas townies are just like "whatevs" and vote. Thus, if Pandain flips miller, it stands to reason the people who pushed the hardest for his lynch are often scum. You know this. I think you're trying to hide that fact. | ||
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BrownBear
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From: Pandain [ 793 posts | Profile | Buddy ] Subject: Last words and Testimony +will Date: 7/29/10 01:06 Publish this after my death and only after my death. Don't tell anyone, I have to be lynched since it will be best. Better to get one fully debated lynch and a voluntary one rather than 2 half debated ones. I'm going to pittsburg so if i die before I get back please publish this. Last Words: Hello everyone. As you have found out I am a miller. :/ And you have lynched me. Hehe, but its koo dawgs. I wasn't the brightest townie either Youngmini: Secret friendship alliance my fadoodle. See below. Proct: How could you... I mean. Cmon, we were in it together. Than you turn against me? Still, I suppose it isn't bad but still... BETRAYAL! Brownbear: Zeks: Gj man, getting GF and mafia. I'm happy to be a casualty if it means we win. BM: Thank you for hosting this and letting me play! Everyone else: Thank you for playing with me/helping with me/pointing out my huge flaws/ Just final words of advice for the town. Take it or not, it may be bad hehe. n.n Think thigns through. Don't just vote because one guy says so. Debate it. Is it logical? Will: My pet Pandet, my son Pando and wife Pandria go to Brown bear. He's the only one who still believed me. The black plague goes to youngmini, cause he didn't trust me even though we had a secret friendship alliance. Also youngmini, you're lucky I let you off the bet. I was going to make you do what Roffles was supposed to XD My ashes go to my love Subversive. That way you will be forever emotionally scarred. | ||
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On July 30 2010 12:19 youngminii wrote: @ BrownBear: There's no need for Vets to claim, I already know who they are (thanks Zeks/lakrismamma), I'll stop town if they're about to be lynched. Ok :D I wasn't sure zeks had told anyone, so I wanted to cover our bases. Since you know, no need to worry about that crap. | ||
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On July 30 2010 12:19 citi.zen wrote: Lol - I sincerely congratulated panda for playing a good red game. Turns out he was town - I take it all back. Guys, give him a break. It's his first game. All of us didn't play to our fullest potential our first game. | ||
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Your style of play says that if someone checks red they get lynched no matter what. It's a black and white style of play, and it is legitimate. My style of play says that it's more shades of grey, especially if Millers are in the game. I decided that since Pandain and I had been sharing PMs and talking about things since about Day 2, and I had gotten a very pro-town read off of him, I would trust my instincts and trust that he was miller #2. Obviously, you think my style of play is stupid, and I think your style of play is narrow-minded. Arguing about it isn't going to get anywhere. Let's just agree that we lynched Pandain, he flipped miller, and now we're moving on. Before I take my vote off of you, though, please quote your post where you claimed vet. I still didn't see it reading through the last 5 or so pages, and I'm too lazy to read further back | ||
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On July 31 2010 02:15 chaoser wrote: It's not stupid, but it's a very dangerous type of play. You can have people like BC or such who can play pro-town ish and make great arguments and in the end sway people's votes away from him even if he is mafia. It's happened several times before in other games where someone will be flipped red, claim miller/insane DT and argue people away from lynching them when they were mafia. People can play anti-town/make bad calls and still be town but appear as mafia. People can play pro-town and still be mafia and appear as town. If you start playing the grey, it gets very very hard to tell if it's a town grey or a mafia grey. The best way, and most heavyhanded way, is to kill anyone who flips red. I agree that that's a logical way to play, it's just not the way I choose to play. In most situations, I prefer to make a judgement call. When it was BC on the chopping block, I listened to him, and his arguments nearly convinced me. However, I know how deceptive of a player he is, and I had had no contact with him apart from in the thread, so I made the judgement call to keep my vote on him. For Pandain, it was different. It's his first game, so I felt more comfortable assuming he wasn't running any major deceptions (not a knock on your skill panda, just the fact that newbies don't tend to run the kind of high-level mindgames BC and Ace do <3). Also, I had a long PM history with him, so I had a lot more information to go on, and I considered him to be very pro-town. Thus, I made the judgement call to trust him. Am I wrong sometimes? Certainly. Does it bite me in the ass? Of course. However, it's no different from your style of thinking - sometimes it's wrong, sometimes it isn't. In this case, my way of thinking happened to be correct. Of course I could have been wrong and Pandain could have been mafia. However, I think my judgement is usually pretty sound, so I defer to it over just blindly following orders. If you call that bad play, I seriously question you. | ||
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I still don't think it's bad play. Guess you all do tho, whatevs :D <3 you too young ^^ | ||
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On July 31 2010 09:40 DarthThienAn wrote: no love for the dead guy. </3 <3<3<3<3<3<3 :D | ||
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Ugh. Will think on who to vote. | ||
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I want to raise the topic of Misder's inactivity - namely, it's nothing new. TL Mafia XXVI: Day 1: Shows up late, votes for me for Mayor right after I withdraw my candidacy, then doesnt post. Throughout the rest of the game, posted the bare minimum to stay alive, only stayed on bandwagons, occasionally popped up with some kinda-alright analysis... you get the picture. Only thing he had going for him this game was, he ended up being green. It's possible he is doing the exact same thing again. I went further back, and couldn't find any other games, so this is all we got to go on. | ||
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On August 02 2010 04:30 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...And you could be protecting Misder to keep the mafia KP at two. I don't give a crap about whether Misder lives or dies, I was just trying to do what Protact told us to and post solid evidence. If you really think it's that scummy then just vote for me, don't give me this crap. Given that this is essentially LYLO, I want us to vote correctly, not vote kneejerk. Since a lot of people have stacked onto Misder, I want to post the other side so that we make absolutely sure we're voting for the right guy. If Misder is town, it would be easy for mafia to stack on him and end the day with another failed lynch. Since that hasn't happened yet, there's a decent chance he's mafia, but again, it's essentially LYLO. We have to be 100% sure before we vote, we can't just say "oh he's inactive, so he's not helping the town, so it doesn't matter if he dies right guys?" Unless there's some other huge reveal/scumslip, though, my vote will go to Misder. | ||
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On August 02 2010 05:17 Protactinium wrote: I made a long post a while ago that was, sadly, ignored, which called for everybody to analyze each other. Since I see that there's not much discussion going on and I don't see that there will be much (why so inactive, town...) I once again propose for everybody to analyze somebody else, say the next surviving person above you or below you on the player roster. Either way, I don't care too much as I expect this to be ignored as well. Don't give up! This type of stuff is amazing for town. | ||
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On August 02 2010 05:27 Divinek wrote: also just an fyi for town people acting like proct are right now shouldnt be cleared and be like 'oh look he's helping out town by posting big blocks of text he can't be red!' dont judge him on his contributions at this point, judge him on his objectives. At this stage in the game it'd be perfectly fine for all of the mob to put themselves under the spotlight so long as to direct us to one more mis lync. not that im saying he's red, just keep that in mind you few people that actually read and post in this thread still! Yep, I have been keeping that in mind! I'm just glad SOMEONE'S posting walls of text, and he has highlighted the points we need to go off of, so so far I have no complaints. | ||
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##Vote: Misder For now, at least. Also, where is d3? Haven't seen him in forever. | ||
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##Unvote: Misder ##Vote: Abstain Was on autopilot, my mind was thinking about Misder... yeah. I are dumb :/ | ||
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On August 02 2010 13:41 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Well was BB checked by a DT or not? I saw he posted himself as "confirmed townie" but maybe he just meant from his point of view he is a confirmed townie. It was from my point of view, to the best of my knowledge I have not been DT checked. Opz... I know, I've played like crap this game. Sorry | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [BrownBear's notes] + ROLES STILL ALIVE 10 Total Scum: 3 vanilla scum Town: 2 vets Vig (Tricode) 4 vanilla town WHAT I KNOW So here's town list: Townie: BrownBear (I am green) d3 (claimed survived nighthit, forget if it was confirmed) Tricode (vigi) Divinek (claimed vet) Still 3 town and 3 scum out there, off of this list: chaoser rastaban Opz Misder Pyrrholuxia Protactinium Of these: chaoser is still scummy. BC did hate on him, though. rastaban is likely town unless BC pulled some epic mindgame shit. Opz is ? Misder is FUCKING INACTIVE JESUS CHRIST Pyrr is scummy, IMO. Weird voting patterns, weird posting patterns... I dunno. Protact has been way more town-aligned recently, but still could be mafioso trying to gain town's trust. So essentially, WHAT THE FUCK WHERE'S ALL OUR INFORMATION. My ideas: The BC-South trail goes cold... at rastaban. If it wasn't LYLO I'd push for rasta's lynch just to see what info that digs up. Other than that, maybe Pyrr or chaoser? I don't like the "HAY GUYS LYNCH MISDER HE'S INACTIVE" So, in the interest of getting chaoser to post (I want to see the big huge thing he promised a little while back)... ##Vote: chaoser Again, possibly just a temporary thing to see how he reacts. Possibly a permanent thing if he doesn't react or reacts scummy. | ||
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On August 02 2010 14:20 ~OpZ~ wrote: Unless your the other Veteran, my vote is between you and Pyrr. I am not a vet. I am green. If you vote for me because of this, so be it. I'm not going to lie about my role to save myself. | ||
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I disappeared due to working 16 hours straight today. I was in Pandain's town circle, such that it were (he told me results of DT checks, but not who DT was). Stop freaking out. BM... seriously, what the fuck. Two things: 1) You modkill chaoser, you become officially the worst host ever 2) POST YOUR GODDAMN DEATH POSTS ON TIME | ||
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This is not the way a game should be hosted. | ||
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On August 03 2010 23:44 chaoser wrote: so...what's the situation? I believe you were lynched. BM has to get back and confirm though. Speaking of BM getting back, what the fuck. He's officially almost 18 hours late. | ||
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On August 04 2010 08:18 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: He doesn't need to explain anything, really. Just back off and let him run his game. If he makes the post tonight let's just keep playing without whining since getting on his nerves is not gonna make anything better. If the game doesn't go the way any of us want, there will be new games soon. Dude, I was joking. Relax. | ||
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On August 04 2010 16:55 Bill Murray wrote: bm being up for 36 hours (and playing texas holdem for 19 of them) isn't bm Just say who died and what role they are. You can do that, right? | ||
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It's LYLO, and he seems the most likely to me to be red. At this point, I have to assume the BC-claiming-to-him thing was a mafia mindgame. | ||
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1) abstaining is stupid at this point in the game 2) I work 2/3 of the day so may not be back in time to vote in the future 3) I sincerely believe you are red | ||
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On August 05 2010 05:48 d3_crescentia wrote: don't have any thoughts on this situation, really - like honestly who cares anymore? 4 of us are town; 2 of us are confirmed, 3 of us are scum that's pretty good odds to me - we just have to figure out which two aren't scum out of 5 based on what looks reasonable to have I think we'd have Pyrr Misder and Brownbear all red for a team of BC/Pyrr/Brownbear/Xelin/Misder/SouthRawrea based on some mysterious instinct ##vote: BrownBear Lynch me and town loses. Plain and simple. You and Divinek are confirmed, I know my role, that leaves Misder/Pyrr/Protact/rastaban. The problem is, we have to be right all 3 times in a row. I think rasta is definitely red, I think Misder is possibly red, and I don't know about Pyrr/Protact. We shall see. But don't lynch me. You have, at best, random circumstantial evidence and "he's been playing like crap this game" evidence. That does not equal scum. Rastaban, by comparison, has some decently solid evidence, Misder has been lurking all game, and... well, I still don't know about Pyrr/Protact, lol. | ||
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lolololol. To be fair, I started writing that right after d3 posted, and then got distracted for a while. d3... you are so fail. Postgame thoughts tonight. Not happy with myself and with others. | ||
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On August 05 2010 06:27 Pandain wrote: Four major events that saved mafia: 1.Inflitration of DT Subversion 2.The Xelin Attack 3.Sexy blue sniping 4.Medic protecting BC(hehe) I will be touching on all 4 of these in my writeup, lol. | ||
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Not trying to pretend I played particularly well (I didn't), but god, some of the things town did were so freakin' dumb. I still <3 you all though. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Haha, you were fun to argue with since for whatever reason you always wanted my nuts to burn in a fire. haha, it was mostly meta + you pissed me off. When you first shouted down the roleclaim idea, I got pissed, then I sat and thought "wait, if BC were town he'd be smart enough to know this is a great townie move, thus he must be mafia." Was bad at communicating it to other people, though. I can usually be persuasive, but I'm nothing compared to you ^^ | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Honestly youngminii was under suspicion by you and subversion for being the gf. Following your own guts was prob the smart move there. It was actually beneficial to town to off citizen there as it gave more information, confirmed he had been lying, etc... Exactly, I thought young was GF for a good long time. I thought BC was regular mafia, and South was maybe suicide bomber given how much he got defended. Got 2 of 3 alignments right, 0 of 3 roles. Ahh well. | ||
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So my gut instinct for who was originally mafia: BC (after day 2) chaoser (wrong) Pyrrholuxia (didnt have much to go on other than weird voting patterns and sketchy behavior, but apparently that was enough lol) tree.hugger (wrong) SouthRawrea (right) rastaban (after the fakeclaim, but this was the one where I was like "well, maaaaaybe...") Well... I had 4 of 6 down no trouble. The issues I have with my play were: 1) Failed Day 1. Like, seriously failed Day 1. Forgot the game was even going on, rushed in and voted to escape modkill, and... yeah, you see what happened. It put me in a position where I was forced to work while many people did not trust me/people were actively suspecting me. 2) Gave up on the roleclaim idea way too quickly. After BC shouted it down, I knew BC likely scum, but did not then follow up with my second idea (instead of vetclaim, mass townclaim). I thought that town opinion was too against me and BC was too loud for it to stand a chance of succeeding. Looking back, if we had mass roleclaimed day 2, mafia wouldn't have stood a chance in hell. We would have lost blues, yeah, but mafia would have been screwed. When you know exactly how many of each role is in a game, roleclaims are uberpowerful, and we never utilized this weapon until it was too late and it was just green vs. red. 3) Didn't communicate my suspicions clearly enough in the thread. I had this great list I was running, but I never posted it, and I never said "well, what about this?" The reasons are twofold: one, I am working 16 hours a day and don't really have the time to devote to mafia fully, and two, I was still scared of getting lynched. Even after I was (mostly) cleared by BC flipping red and Pandain not flipping red, I was still too timid. Gotta take more risks. Well, that's how BrownBear failed. Now did BrownBear succeed at all? 1) Nailed 4 of 6 mafia just by reading the thread. That's gotta count for something, even if I didn't get these findings out to town fast enough/at all 2) Called Pandain being miller. I tend to play by gut instinct versus statistical probability. The reason is, mafia is very much not black and white. Divinek might think it is, but he's wrong Mafia is shades of grey, and if a very pro-town player I've had a PM relationship with since Day 2 might be miller, I'm more inclined to think he's miller over he's scum. The reason I do this is because my gut instincts tend to be correct. Not always, but they tend to be. Check it out: Pandain flipped Miller. Pyrrhuloxia ended up being scum in the end. BC was scum. chaoser wasn't, okay, but my gut instincts were mostly correct. If you don't like the way I play, deal. I trust my brain way more than I trust some numbers on a piece of paper. So in closing, Brownbear's game was a lot of fail with a side dish of mild success. I also survived almost to the end as well, so that's something! I will post in a couple hours with thoughts on the rest of the game (other players, the setup), and the Bearies. | ||
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On August 05 2010 07:40 Pandain wrote: Also add to this that I always defended the "lurkers" because they had said they had "real life problems" and i always believed them T_T It's okay, it's a common first-game mistake. You're way too trusting, lol. Happens to everyone | ||
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And yeah, the argument was what sold it to me that you were mafia. Nobody noticed cause everyone thought I was scummy though. That, and young played horribly :/ | ||
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On August 05 2010 08:09 Bill Murray wrote: you're welcome, bro thanks for thanking me.. also thank you to the players, and flamewheel, ver, qatol, etc. for putting up with my stupidity as a mod Dude, it's all good. I got too frustrated during the game, I'm sorry. I know how much work you put into this. | ||
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On August 05 2010 08:19 Protactinium wrote: I seriously wonder how many people bothered to read them... Also what if I said I had made up a lot of the PMs between Pandain and myself? I read them! And they were really good. You were red at the end though T_T But you played a very good game. I sincerely hope you keep playing, man! (also play in my game which will be coming soon hehehe :D) | ||
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On August 05 2010 09:40 Divinek wrote: i think that requires him and radfield being in the same game, and both not red Some crazy coincidince will conspire to kill them both anyway | ||
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I've already discussed my play, now I want to bring up the play of the town. Overall, town played terribly this game. There was not any one person who was super super bad and ruined it for us, it was our game to lose and we blew it. Here 4 points Pandain mentioned where town got screwed: On August 05 2010 06:27 Pandain wrote: Four major events that saved mafia: 1.Inflitration of DT Subversion 2.The Xelin Attack 3.Sexy blue sniping 4.Medic protecting BC(hehe) Some of these were unfortunate coincidences. Some of these were us utterly failing. 1) Infiltration of DT circle. It had been posted many many times that Pandain and Protact were in contact with subversion, after sub's death. When Pandain flipped miller, town should have immediately moved to lynch Protactinium. This is not based on anything that happened in the thread, this is based off of common sense. When a DT circle is infiltrated and the DT dies, you start lynching members of the circle until you catch the scum. We were basically handed Protactinium on a silver platter and nobody said anything other than "oh, we should think about this." D'oh >< 2) Xelin Attack When Xelin posted that "LOL IM SUICIDE BOMMA" post in the thread, here's what should have happened: a) zeks should have told another confirmed townie everything he knew (this happened, he told young, but young failed to pass it on to another confirmed townie, and then died the next night). b) Everyone should have gotten as fucking far away from zeks as possible. He was the most obvious target, the center of a town circle, there was no way XeliN wasn't going to bomb him. People should have thought a lot more. c) SINiquity shouldn't have fucking protected XeliN! That has to be the dumbest move all game. I really want to hear his logic, because right now I have to believe his logic train went like "hmm, xelin just claimed suicide bomber in the thread. I'M GOING TO PROTECT HIM AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS HURR DURR" So yeah, that night was what turned it around for mafia. 5 townies dead in one night, ouch. 3) Sexy blue sniping not much we could do here, mafia played almost picture-perfect. Moving on... 4) Medic protecting BC Maybe I think this one was obvious, since at that point I was sure BC was red, but I don't know why Roffles protected him. Then, after Tricode got his shot blocked, people didn't ask questions, they just assumed Tricode would try to kill BC because of the meta going on there. This is an important lesson: even if there is a solid meta reason for something happening, look through the thread and see if you can't find an even better logical reason. Often the logical reason will trump the metagame reason. ...yeah. That sucked. Apart from those, there are a couple things: 1) youngminii throwing a temper tantrum and outing Pandain as a detective because voting didn't go the way he wanted. I'm sorry young, I know you're usually a good player, but this is inexcusable. You were green, under no circumstances should you be publically calling out a blue role unless they specifically ask you to. The fact that he was a mouth rather than the actual DT changes nothing, because you didn't know that. Regardless of what you thought of his plan, regardless of whether his play was dumb or smart, regardless of anything, you do not out a blue role. Unless you're mafia, of course. Or traitor. Then it's ok 2) d3's vote on me that ended the game. In a LYLO situation, you do not vote until you are 100% sure you are voting for a red. I was 100% sure rastaban was red, but I did have a contingency plan. When I voted, I stated I was probably going inactive for a while, this was actually a ploy. I was watching the thread very very closely. If I saw anyone stack on with little to no explanation, I would immediately have posted unvoting (I actually had the post ready to go), and throw FoS on that person. Then d3 came along, was like "LOL VOTE BROWNBEAR", and... you know the rest. Yeah, I don't actually know which play was worse - SIN's mafia-medicness, young's "GRR IM ANGRY PANDAIN IS DT", or d3's game ending impulse vote. These are just examples, and I'm in no way saying I'm mad at any of these players. I'm simply pointing out things you do not do in mafia. I've been guilty of really dumb play before (Team Melee Mini Mafia), and I learned from it, because everyone pointed it out. I loved playing with you all, even through your whoopsies, and this game was fun. However, I do want to talk about the setup a bit. People have already talked about some things (balance, KP, etc.) and I won't add on to that. I just want to post a couple logistical issues I had with this game: 1) If you are going to go inactive for large periods of time, please have a co-host who can post in your absence. A couple hours late once or twice is excusable. 28 hours late because you were playing Texas Hold-em is not. Sorry Bill, I <3 you, but it really frustrated me when that happened. 2) Please have a separate voting thread. If you insist on not doing so, at least make sure you can count votes properly, and please don't get angry at people when they try to count votes up when you aren't there. Actually, just have a separate voting thread. It's easier on all of us. 3) The day-ends-when-majority-is-reached rule is not a good rule. A fixed-hour day works much better, because people's minds can change in a 48-hour period. This setup is conducive to quick bandwagoning and gives mafia too much control over the day period, which is really supposed to be town's time to shine. The last lynch was the best example: 1 wrong vote, and mafia just bandwagoned town to death. Bearies to come later. Long post. Tired. | ||
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And usually, in a closed circle, it's easy-ish to find the leak. | ||
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On August 05 2010 12:04 Ace wrote: meh, I just think if given the choice I'd rather take a 1 shot vigilante over a hatter any day. Way stronger and more useful since they can confirm themselves without dying. Aww, I like the chaos that a hatter injects into the game. | ||
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The Bearies brought to you by Pandain, Dr. Pepper, Late Thursday nights, and Insomniacs, International. SECRET FRIENDSHIP BEARIE: for best secret PM alliance Goes to Pandain! Mostly because I had a lot of fun comparing ideas with him, and partially because he's just so darn amusing to PM with, lol. Plus, he uses the word “fadoodle”. It sucks that he had to die in the end, but I knew that our friendship was unbreakable, and I knew that he was in fact town (suck it Divinek ) V FOR VENDETTA BEARIE: for most badass terrorist act Goes to XeliN! He had the cojones to ADMIT IN THE THREAD that he was asploding one night, and still managed to take out 3 townies by himself. Mafia then stacked on, and the death total rose to 5, which was arguably a turning point in the game. Well done XeliN, you deserve the 49 virgins you received in the mafia afterlife. TYPHOID MARY BEARIE: For worst medic Goes to SINiquity! SIN acted as a mafia medic this game, and at the time it was frustrating. Now that I look back on it, it was hilarious! He protected every mafia member under the sun. Then, when XeliN proceeded to start his brief reign of badassery and terror, SINiquity protected him. Yep. Protected the guy who just claimed Suicide Bomber. BRILLIANT! ITCHY TRIGGER FINGER BEARIE: For worst impulse vote Goes to d3_crescentia! His decision to randomly impulse vote for me on the last day ended the game when Mafia piled on. Enough said. RADFIELD JR. BEARIE: For most hard-luck player Well, I'm told by flamewheel that this should actually be Radfield Sr. Bearie, but whatever. It goes to Foolishness, who had this entire game made for him – only to get whacked night 1. Ouch, that has got to hurt. I'm sorry, man! BELKAR BITTERLEAF BEARIE: For the most chaotic player Goes to BloodyC0bbler! He caused untold amounts of chaos in the town. Once he got rid of Foolishness, Roffles, and the other big-name players, he was free to romp. And romp he did. He almost talked himself out of a situation where he got lynched (and he could have, if not for majority lynch + hardheaded players like me, lol). He got citi.zen lynched in an unfavorable situation to him. He managed to protect rastaban. He did everything a GF should do, and did it right. Well done, sir! 4CHAN BEARIE: For new meme: “It's iNfuNdiBuLuM.” That's all for now folks! Sorry they're abbreviated this game, but I am tired. | ||
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