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On June 27 2010 07:10 Nikon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 07:01 DCLXVI wrote:On June 27 2010 06:44 Nikon wrote:On June 27 2010 04:34 BrownBear wrote:
Since Nikon doesn't think my posts are worth reading, apparently, I'm going to ask one more time, and he has until his next post to answer me before I change my vote to him.
Nikon - please explain exactly where I can't distinguish between 1 and 2. You really have to answer people's questions if you don't want to appear scummy. On June 26 2010 05:04 BrownBear wrote:
Even if you were to assume that we were dumb enough to do that, you would also have to assume that the mafia team we are paired with is stupid enough to go along with that...
If you go by the reasoning that team 4 and L are smart enough to hold back from lynching each other, then it is reasonable that one of them is mafia. The mafia would probably rather hit one of the two major townie teams arguing than the two inactive and suspected teams. If neither team 4 or 6 were mafia, then surely the mafia would want the town jump on the one not killed.
I don't suspect L right now because Caller dropped out and L argued against team1(rad/kory),4 recently, sort of supporting the ever scummy team 9.
It was about this snippet - how is ragekilling team 2 even remotely relevant when they got lynched? I hope you guys are online right now, there's loads of fun to be had. LOL I wrote that not BB (even if - scummy team 9) Catching up on the thread nowish post more late, just wanted to point out this obvious JEEP if thats what you call it Good catch, I chopped the quote wrong - I meant to include the bolded text from this one here: Show nested quote +On June 26 2010 05:04 BrownBear wrote:On June 26 2010 02:22 DCLXVI wrote:On June 26 2010 01:53 BrownBear wrote:
Team 9: Here's the team I'm now a little concerned about. Divinek had a LOT of posts day 1, but very little content to them, and it looked more like he was trying to establish himself as an active player, WITHOUT actually adding anything to the town discussion. That's disturbing to me. DCLXVI I have barely seen at all, except for a few posts targeting Korynne... He wanted her lynched, and she wanted him lynched. Now she is dead. Unlike L, I don't think Team 9 would have the experience to hold back on killing someone they'd had a public argument in the thread with...
It's a little shaky, but I think Team 9 looks the most suspicious to me right now.
Even if you were to assume that we were dumb enough to do that, you would also have to assume that the mafia team we are paired with is stupid enough to go along with that... If you go by the reasoning that team 4 and L are smart enough to hold back from lynching each other, then it is reasonable that one of them is mafia. The mafia would probably rather hit one of the two major townie teams arguing than the two inactive and suspected teams. If neither team 4 or 6 were mafia, then surely the mafia would want the town jump on the one not killed. I don't suspect L right now because Caller dropped out and L argued against team1(rad/kory),4 recently, sort of supporting the ever scummy team 9. Well, that's the thing: Ive played with L before, and I know he knows how stuff like this works. I haven't really played with either of you ever, so I have no clue if you would know whether that's an obvious scumtell or not. It's pretty soft evidence, thats why I didn't outright accuse you: I'm just saying that your voting pattern, posting patterns, and the game events make you somewhat suspicious. Not scummy, just suspicious. As for your logic behind the Team 4 vs L thing... The thing is, both L and Team 4 had arguments with Team 2... and I'm reasonably sure L is smart enough to not ragekill them, and I know for sure that Ace and DTA are smart enough to not ragekill them. Thus, I'm not really looking at those arguments as saying anything, other than Team 4 and Team L look less suspicious. That said, DTA is a masterful player, and can easily appear clean when he isn't. This doesn't mean I'm accusing him at all ( <3 you DTA :3 ) but I am watching him closer than I would a newbie.(what, me, sore about last game? Nevar! :D) I still think you and Divinek need to step up and look less suspicious, though. There is not much to go on for this day, so even appearing suspicious can be deadly. And Team 7 needs to step the fuck up, seriously. Oh, you meant this quote. Ok, yeah. I can't distinguish between 1 and 2. I are dumb 
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Waaaah formatting what. You get the gist of it.
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I want to see L and ace argue for another day. I would love to see them both be mafia, but I doubt it. putting my vote on 7 for now for inactivity. Bad reason, but w/e.
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The problem I have with Team 7 is despite being called out on it, the only thing they've had to say are defenses against supposed attacks against them. They have not come forward to make a progressive post that might help our analysis with another team. They didn't do anything on day 1 until forced to. They still havn't done anything of merit today.
Now we're 2 hours away from deadline and two of their team hasn't even voted. I don't know what's up with that. Only thing I can figure is that they'll be looking to shift the vote where they can right before deadline. Like I said earlier, I see no reason for a town aligned team to be so passive as this when I and others lay them under scrutiny with their votes. Bum, you were asking earlier about how you can tell if a team is being scummy when nothing they're actually saying reads red directly? This would be an excellent example.
Frankly, the inactivity throughout the game has been disappointing. If nothing else, consider how much discussion was taken out of the game with teams 1 and 2. The rest of you guys need to step it up.
(Durak, why havn't you voted yet, where are you??)
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Similar to what Y-Izzle said... where is my team why have you not voted guys...
Am I the only active one left?
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On June 27 2010 08:49 DCLXVI wrote:
I want to see L and ace argue for another day. I would love to see them both be mafia, but I doubt it. putting my vote on 7 for now for inactivity. Bad reason, but w/e.
To generate some discussion, what do we think of this?
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The reason why people aren't active is that they're happy with where the vote is falling, which means mafia's cool with me dying.
As for this:
On June 27 2010 02:49 Zyrre wrote:L's latest post is the only one from him I've read as somewhat convincing(as in, it looks like Ace's argument was the weaker one). Namely that Ace just copied the voting lists and took the third person on there when there had been switches before that person voted. Ace did write he would ignore that, but it did severely alter the results. Also some incorrect statements from L in there, for instance: Ace's post against it was this one: Show nested quote +no its not. It's pretty bad theory and only pans in the most simple of newbie games. The "third" vote idea doesn't even make sense because BM doesn't understand what it meant. It had nothing to do with the 3rd player voting - it had everything to do with trying to catch where a scum would vote without drawing attention aka getting on the wagon but without being blamed for tipping it.
Being that scum will vote wherever they think will allow them to escape scrutiny that statement is nonsense. I interpret this as: It doesn't apply to a lot of players and should only, if ever, be used as a slight suspicion together with independent stronger suspicions.
If you interpret that in that way, then it isn't a grounds for killing someone. Even if you don't think the idea is 100% foolproof (and none are, in this format), that doesn't mean someone is scum for suggesting it unless there's a scum motive behind it. BM's post had nothing of that nature in it, which looks pretty obvious in hindsight.
I've always said the easiest way to figure out what mafia are doing is the following; Look at what mafia's objective is, and think about the different routes to get there.
Day 1, for instance, we have a MASSIVE train on T7. T7 talks up just enough to get back under the radar and survives, mostly due to another push against T2. T9 was the secondary target, but they don't get nailed. Both T7 and T9 look terrible after the voting falls into place as multiple swings make them likely beneficiaries of mafia seeded argumentation and vote swings.
If T7 and T9 were both town, the MOMENT night ended and radfield died, mafia members would have started their shit train up. 1 team would spark the move, the other could lay low and just take the heat off. Even if the aggressor team died for their move, they would have a non-suspicious backup in subsequent lynch or die days for town.
That didn't happen at all. Instead we had a huge push (read Page 32 and onwards) to create a binary between Ace and I. Even Darth tries to play it up. Generally speaking, the two easiest teams to get killed were ignored by mafia; Why? Well, it follows that one or the other are mafia.
I still personally think Ace/Darth is the other mafia team, but I wouldn't be surprised if T7 or 9 was laying low and using the Ace/Me binary to get away with little posting.
In terms of posting habits, Day 2 has produced only 6 pages of discussion. Day 1 produced almost 4 times that. Many people are VERY satisfied with the direction that town is going and many people don't feel the need to post. That is pretty telling in and of itself.
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On June 27 2010 09:38 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 08:49 DCLXVI wrote:
I want to see L and ace argue for another day. I would love to see them both be mafia, but I doubt it. putting my vote on 7 for now for inactivity. Bad reason, but w/e. To generate some discussion, what do we think of this?
Either he's like me, and is just amused by the arguing/flaming at this point, or he actually hasn't formed an opinion yet...?
At this point in the game, saying something is a bad reason "but w/e" is absolutely inexcusable. Also, team 7 has been mildly active recently (even if it's only defending themselves), so he's not only inexcusably using shitty logic while acknowledging it's shitty, he's also completely and utterly wrong.
This seems to me just like a trash post to justify a fairly random vote, and to mask the fact that he hasn't read the thread and probably isn't going to.
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Although, DTA, I'd LOVE to see your opinion on it too, please. It's cool that you're trying to start discussion and all, but why not start it off by discussing it yourself?
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On June 27 2010 09:42 L wrote:The reason why people aren't active is that they're happy with where the vote is falling, which means mafia's cool with me dying. As for this: Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 02:49 Zyrre wrote:L's latest post is the only one from him I've read as somewhat convincing(as in, it looks like Ace's argument was the weaker one). Namely that Ace just copied the voting lists and took the third person on there when there had been switches before that person voted. Ace did write he would ignore that, but it did severely alter the results. Also some incorrect statements from L in there, for instance: You didn't attempt to build an argument around why the Jeep tell was wrong; Ace's post against it was this one: no its not. It's pretty bad theory and only pans in the most simple of newbie games. The "third" vote idea doesn't even make sense because BM doesn't understand what it meant. It had nothing to do with the 3rd player voting - it had everything to do with trying to catch where a scum would vote without drawing attention aka getting on the wagon but without being blamed for tipping it.
Being that scum will vote wherever they think will allow them to escape scrutiny that statement is nonsense. I interpret this as: It doesn't apply to a lot of players and should only, if ever, be used as a slight suspicion together with independent stronger suspicions. If you interpret that in that way, then it isn't a grounds for killing someone. Even if you don't think the idea is 100% foolproof (and none are, in this format), that doesn't mean someone is scum for suggesting it unless there's a scum motive behind it. BM's post had nothing of that nature in it, which looks pretty obvious in hindsight. I've always said the easiest way to figure out what mafia are doing is the following; Look at what mafia's objective is, and think about the different routes to get there. Day 1, for instance, we have a MASSIVE train on T7. T7 talks up just enough to get back under the radar and survives, mostly due to another push against T2. T9 was the secondary target, but they don't get nailed. Both T7 and T9 look terrible after the voting falls into place as multiple swings make them likely beneficiaries of mafia seeded argumentation and vote swings. If T7 and T9 were both town, the MOMENT night ended and radfield died, mafia members would have started their shit train up. 1 team would spark the move, the other could lay low and just take the heat off. Even if the aggressor team died for their move, they would have a non-suspicious backup in subsequent lynch or die days for town. That didn't happen at all. Instead we had a huge push (read Page 32 and onwards) to create a binary between Ace and I. Even Darth tries to play it up. Generally speaking, the two easiest teams to get killed were ignored by mafia; Why? Well, it follows that one or the other are mafia. I still personally think Ace/Darth is the other mafia team, but I wouldn't be surprised if T7 or 9 was laying low and using the Ace/Me binary to get away with little posting. In terms of posting habits, Day 2 has produced only 6 pages of discussion. Day 1 produced almost 4 times that. Many people are VERY satisfied with the direction that town is going and many people don't feel the need to post. That is pretty telling in and of itself.
L, I agree with your general arguments here, but they also apply in reverse with you being the mafia and Ace/DTA being the town. Since I don't see either of you as having a stronger position as outlined in my earlier posting, I'm after the inactives that have a good chance of being mafia. I agree that the idea that the mafia are comfortable with where things stand is disconcerting, but I don't see any way to make this vote go elsewhere with just over an hour left. I think DCLXVI's vote on Team 7 is trash, so if I were going to agree to any kind of train voting, it'd be on Team 9 for reasons similar to my alignment against Team 7.
Consider this a call out - if you're here, post. Just spam "I'm here" if you've got nothing else pressing to say.
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On June 27 2010 09:57 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 09:42 L wrote:The reason why people aren't active is that they're happy with where the vote is falling, which means mafia's cool with me dying. As for this: On June 27 2010 02:49 Zyrre wrote:L's latest post is the only one from him I've read as somewhat convincing(as in, it looks like Ace's argument was the weaker one). Namely that Ace just copied the voting lists and took the third person on there when there had been switches before that person voted. Ace did write he would ignore that, but it did severely alter the results. Also some incorrect statements from L in there, for instance: You didn't attempt to build an argument around why the Jeep tell was wrong; Ace's post against it was this one: no its not. It's pretty bad theory and only pans in the most simple of newbie games. The "third" vote idea doesn't even make sense because BM doesn't understand what it meant. It had nothing to do with the 3rd player voting - it had everything to do with trying to catch where a scum would vote without drawing attention aka getting on the wagon but without being blamed for tipping it.
Being that scum will vote wherever they think will allow them to escape scrutiny that statement is nonsense. I interpret this as: It doesn't apply to a lot of players and should only, if ever, be used as a slight suspicion together with independent stronger suspicions. If you interpret that in that way, then it isn't a grounds for killing someone. Even if you don't think the idea is 100% foolproof (and none are, in this format), that doesn't mean someone is scum for suggesting it unless there's a scum motive behind it. BM's post had nothing of that nature in it, which looks pretty obvious in hindsight. I've always said the easiest way to figure out what mafia are doing is the following; Look at what mafia's objective is, and think about the different routes to get there. Day 1, for instance, we have a MASSIVE train on T7. T7 talks up just enough to get back under the radar and survives, mostly due to another push against T2. T9 was the secondary target, but they don't get nailed. Both T7 and T9 look terrible after the voting falls into place as multiple swings make them likely beneficiaries of mafia seeded argumentation and vote swings. If T7 and T9 were both town, the MOMENT night ended and radfield died, mafia members would have started their shit train up. 1 team would spark the move, the other could lay low and just take the heat off. Even if the aggressor team died for their move, they would have a non-suspicious backup in subsequent lynch or die days for town. That didn't happen at all. Instead we had a huge push (read Page 32 and onwards) to create a binary between Ace and I. Even Darth tries to play it up. Generally speaking, the two easiest teams to get killed were ignored by mafia; Why? Well, it follows that one or the other are mafia. I still personally think Ace/Darth is the other mafia team, but I wouldn't be surprised if T7 or 9 was laying low and using the Ace/Me binary to get away with little posting. In terms of posting habits, Day 2 has produced only 6 pages of discussion. Day 1 produced almost 4 times that. Many people are VERY satisfied with the direction that town is going and many people don't feel the need to post. That is pretty telling in and of itself. L, I agree with your general arguments here, but they also apply in reverse with you being the mafia and Ace/DTA being the town. Since I don't see either of you as having a stronger position as outlined in my earlier posting, I'm after the inactives that have a good chance of being mafia. I agree that the idea that the mafia are comfortable with where things stand is disconcerting, but I don't see any way to make this vote go elsewhere with just over an hour left. I think DCLXVI's vote on Team 7 is trash, so if I were going to agree to any kind of train voting, it'd be on Team 9 for reasons similar to my alignment against Team 7. Consider this a call out - if you're here, post. Just spam "I'm here" if you've got nothing else pressing to say.
I kinda relooked at the votes and it seems that T9 WAS trying to shitball T7 asap after the day started, which would make sense if T7 is town and T9 is mafia as per the above analysis. The only problem I have is that there was very, very little in the way of thread pushing, just very light taps.
I am, however, very surprised at the overall level of activity that we're getting from everyone, not just T7. If I could, I'd prefer hitting T9 today because of how it fits into the above pattern, but frankly we don't have enough time to move the train and an attempt to move it would kill me, which means we'd be in Lylo tomorrow and that would be bad.
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On June 27 2010 09:49 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 09:38 DarthThienAn wrote:On June 27 2010 08:49 DCLXVI wrote:
I want to see L and ace argue for another day. I would love to see them both be mafia, but I doubt it. putting my vote on 7 for now for inactivity. Bad reason, but w/e. To generate some discussion, what do we think of this? Either he's like me, and is just amused by the arguing/flaming at this point, or he actually hasn't formed an opinion yet...? At this point in the game, saying something is a bad reason "but w/e" is absolutely inexcusable. Also, team 7 has been mildly active recently (even if it's only defending themselves), so he's not only inexcusably using shitty logic while acknowledging it's shitty, he's also completely and utterly wrong. This seems to me just like a trash post to justify a fairly random vote, and to mask the fact that he hasn't read the thread and probably isn't going to.
Its probably not a trash or random vote. Its probably a way of taking an easier kill instead of drawing attention to mafia by pushing me and having me flip red. If T7 flips town, we're going to have a roller-coaster final 2 days.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 27 2010 09:42 L wrote:Show nested quote +I interpret this as: It doesn't apply to a lot of players and should only, if ever, be used as a slight suspicion together with independent stronger suspicions. If you interpret that in that way, then it isn't a grounds for killing someone. Even if you don't think the idea is 100% foolproof (and none are, in this format), that doesn't mean someone is scum for suggesting it unless there's a scum motive behind it. BM's post had nothing of that nature in it, which looks pretty obvious in hindsight. ? Are you... saying the same thing Zyrre is saying? You're right, if you interpret it that way, it's not grounds for killing someone. When was someone killed on the grounds that they were the third voter on the bandwagon? BM's the one who tried to use it as an extra reason for lynching Team 7 (I believe) rather than his own team. And Ace was saying that it's not grounds for killing someone, because the idea isn't in the magical number 3, it's in mafia feeling safe voting as the Xth slot. Day 1, for instance, we have a MASSIVE train on T7. T7 talks up just enough to get back under the radar and survives, mostly due to another push against T2. T9 was the secondary target, but they don't get nailed. Both T7 and T9 look terrible after the voting falls into place as multiple swings make them likely beneficiaries of mafia seeded argumentation and vote swings.
If T7 and T9 were both town, the MOMENT night ended and radfield died, mafia members would have started their shit train up. 1 team would spark the move, the other could lay low and just take the heat off. Even if the aggressor team died for their move, they would have a non-suspicious backup in subsequent lynch or die days for town.
Was it "MASSIVE"? Really? It had about 1/3 of the votes at its peak, but that was it. The ending trains (T2, T9) had almost the same amount, though not quote. And it wasn't really a lynch train as much as a "post or if you don't THEN we'll lynch you for being bad" train. As least that's how I saw it - YellowInk (?) led the train and was just pressuring them to post more, which they did. The T9 train was... well, some people weren't here for it, ie. Chez-who-could-have-saved-himself, which is why it didn't go through and T2 got lynched instead. Without pushes toward either of those teams, mafia wouldn't have needed to start anything up. After night ended, we didn't have that many posts. The first major thing that happened was bumatlarge pointing the finger at me/Ace and/or you, saying that he has a "strong feeling that either team 4 or L are mafia". Well, that's a good guess, considering he picked 2/7 teams and so has what, ~60% chance of being right on probability alone? (my probability is weak, I did 2/7 + 2/7 if you want to check). And the basis for that argument was that he knows I can play pro-town while being mafia. Then there was more about "1 of Team 4 or L HAS to be mafia" and then the next major thing was you and Ace arguing with each other. So on the one hand, you have a couple major arguments to cover the mafia's inactivity + distract the town, and on the other, you have the fact that Teams 9 hasn't been pressured at all today, and Team 7 was only pressured just recently, and not even that much because of the lack of activity.
That didn't happen at all. Instead we had a huge push (read Page 32 and onwards) to create a binary between Ace and I. Even Darth tries to play it up. Generally speaking, the two easiest teams to get killed were ignored by mafia; Why? Well, it follows that one or the other are mafia.
I still personally think Ace/Darth is the other mafia team, but I wouldn't be surprised if T7 or 9 was laying low and using the Ace/Me binary to get away with little posting.
For the record, I didn't try to play it up? Well I wasn't here while it was happening, but I made like, 1-2 posts about it, said that if you're town, you're wasting all of our times, but otherwise, you're scummy for, well, wasting all of our time when most of the argument is two guys bickering because they don't like each other. From my perspective anyway.
In terms of posting habits, Day 2 has produced only 6 pages of discussion. Day 1 produced almost 4 times that. Many people are VERY satisfied with the direction that town is going and many people don't feel the need to post. That is pretty telling in and of itself.
To me, that says is that the mafia got rid of the two most active (well, spammy) teams, and the two mafia teams are still alive. I will agree with you though. Right now the mafia are happy that there's been very little posting today. I'm not sure whether it's Team 7 or Team 9 though, because on the one hand, you have that pointless argument between LaXer and Nikon last page (potentially a spam train), but on the other hand, you have the fact that Team 9 hasn't been pressured at all, hence the lack of a bigger spam train?
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 27 2010 09:49 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 09:38 DarthThienAn wrote:On June 27 2010 08:49 DCLXVI wrote:
I want to see L and ace argue for another day. I would love to see them both be mafia, but I doubt it. putting my vote on 7 for now for inactivity. Bad reason, but w/e. To generate some discussion, what do we think of this? Either he's like me, and is just amused by the arguing/flaming at this point, or he actually hasn't formed an opinion yet...? At this point in the game, saying something is a bad reason "but w/e" is absolutely inexcusable. Also, team 7 has been mildly active recently (even if it's only defending themselves), so he's not only inexcusably using shitty logic while acknowledging it's shitty, he's also completely and utterly wrong. This seems to me just like a trash post to justify a fairly random vote, and to mask the fact that he hasn't read the thread and probably isn't going to. You don't think of it as a throwaway, 'slick' kind of vote where a mafia tries to pass it off as nothing? You're right. It is a trash post. It is a trash reason at this point. There's no point to killing based on inactivity. MAYBE on day 1 in a larger setup, but definitely not on day 2. I thought it was pretty obvious that I found the post scummy based on the fact that I asked for discussion about it =p. It were implied, BB. On June 27 2010 09:57 YellowInk wrote:
L, I agree with your general arguments here, but they also apply in reverse with you being the mafia and Ace/DTA being the town. Since I don't see either of you as having a stronger position as outlined in my earlier posting, I'm after the inactives that have a good chance of being mafia. I agree that the idea that the mafia are comfortable with where things stand is disconcerting, but I don't see any way to make this vote go elsewhere with just over an hour left. I think DCLXVI's vote on Team 7 is trash, so if I were going to agree to any kind of train voting, it'd be on Team 9 for reasons similar to my alignment against Team 7.
Consider this a call out - if you're here, post. Just spam "I'm here" if you've got nothing else pressing to say.
Killing inactives ain't cool bro. Show me scumminess first. My current vote is half defensive, half L was scummy earlier. I'd almost rather kill Team 9 than Team 7. I'm not sure. What do you guys think? On June 27 2010 10:08 L wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 09:57 YellowInk wrote:On June 27 2010 09:42 L wrote:The reason why people aren't active is that they're happy with where the vote is falling, which means mafia's cool with me dying. As for this: On June 27 2010 02:49 Zyrre wrote:L's latest post is the only one from him I've read as somewhat convincing(as in, it looks like Ace's argument was the weaker one). Namely that Ace just copied the voting lists and took the third person on there when there had been switches before that person voted. Ace did write he would ignore that, but it did severely alter the results. Also some incorrect statements from L in there, for instance: You didn't attempt to build an argument around why the Jeep tell was wrong; Ace's post against it was this one: no its not. It's pretty bad theory and only pans in the most simple of newbie games. The "third" vote idea doesn't even make sense because BM doesn't understand what it meant. It had nothing to do with the 3rd player voting - it had everything to do with trying to catch where a scum would vote without drawing attention aka getting on the wagon but without being blamed for tipping it.
Being that scum will vote wherever they think will allow them to escape scrutiny that statement is nonsense. I interpret this as: It doesn't apply to a lot of players and should only, if ever, be used as a slight suspicion together with independent stronger suspicions. If you interpret that in that way, then it isn't a grounds for killing someone. Even if you don't think the idea is 100% foolproof (and none are, in this format), that doesn't mean someone is scum for suggesting it unless there's a scum motive behind it. BM's post had nothing of that nature in it, which looks pretty obvious in hindsight. I've always said the easiest way to figure out what mafia are doing is the following; Look at what mafia's objective is, and think about the different routes to get there. Day 1, for instance, we have a MASSIVE train on T7. T7 talks up just enough to get back under the radar and survives, mostly due to another push against T2. T9 was the secondary target, but they don't get nailed. Both T7 and T9 look terrible after the voting falls into place as multiple swings make them likely beneficiaries of mafia seeded argumentation and vote swings. If T7 and T9 were both town, the MOMENT night ended and radfield died, mafia members would have started their shit train up. 1 team would spark the move, the other could lay low and just take the heat off. Even if the aggressor team died for their move, they would have a non-suspicious backup in subsequent lynch or die days for town. That didn't happen at all. Instead we had a huge push (read Page 32 and onwards) to create a binary between Ace and I. Even Darth tries to play it up. Generally speaking, the two easiest teams to get killed were ignored by mafia; Why? Well, it follows that one or the other are mafia. I still personally think Ace/Darth is the other mafia team, but I wouldn't be surprised if T7 or 9 was laying low and using the Ace/Me binary to get away with little posting. In terms of posting habits, Day 2 has produced only 6 pages of discussion. Day 1 produced almost 4 times that. Many people are VERY satisfied with the direction that town is going and many people don't feel the need to post. That is pretty telling in and of itself. L, I agree with your general arguments here, but they also apply in reverse with you being the mafia and Ace/DTA being the town. Since I don't see either of you as having a stronger position as outlined in my earlier posting, I'm after the inactives that have a good chance of being mafia. I agree that the idea that the mafia are comfortable with where things stand is disconcerting, but I don't see any way to make this vote go elsewhere with just over an hour left. I think DCLXVI's vote on Team 7 is trash, so if I were going to agree to any kind of train voting, it'd be on Team 9 for reasons similar to my alignment against Team 7. Consider this a call out - if you're here, post. Just spam "I'm here" if you've got nothing else pressing to say. I kinda relooked at the votes and it seems that T9 WAS trying to shitball T7 asap after the day started, which would make sense if T7 is town and T9 is mafia as per the above analysis. The only problem I have is that there was very, very little in the way of thread pushing, just very light taps. I am, however, very surprised at the overall level of activity that we're getting from everyone, not just T7. If I could, I'd prefer hitting T9 today because of how it fits into the above pattern, but frankly we don't have enough time to move the train and an attempt to move it would kill me, which means we'd be in Lylo tomorrow and that would be bad. Isn't that the whole idea behind being a mafia? Don't draw too much attention to yourself, light taps, etc.? I think we can move the train. Team 7 train is like 3 votes, dude. The question is if we want to or not. On June 27 2010 10:10 L wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 09:49 BrownBear wrote:On June 27 2010 09:38 DarthThienAn wrote:On June 27 2010 08:49 DCLXVI wrote:
I want to see L and ace argue for another day. I would love to see them both be mafia, but I doubt it. putting my vote on 7 for now for inactivity. Bad reason, but w/e. To generate some discussion, what do we think of this? Either he's like me, and is just amused by the arguing/flaming at this point, or he actually hasn't formed an opinion yet...? At this point in the game, saying something is a bad reason "but w/e" is absolutely inexcusable. Also, team 7 has been mildly active recently (even if it's only defending themselves), so he's not only inexcusably using shitty logic while acknowledging it's shitty, he's also completely and utterly wrong. This seems to me just like a trash post to justify a fairly random vote, and to mask the fact that he hasn't read the thread and probably isn't going to. Its probably not a trash or random vote. Its probably a way of taking an easier kill instead of drawing attention to mafia by pushing me and having me flip red. If T7 flips town, we're going to have a roller-coaster final 2 days. It's a trash vote. Meaning it's scummy =p.
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Yass, agreed DTA :D I'm not sure it's scummy yet simply because it's way too obvious of a mistake for a mafia player to make... mostly be just holding DCLXVI to a higher standard of play than that. I wouldn't be that surprised if he were though.
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20 minutes and only you and DTA have posted. 40 minutes till end of day. It's going to have to stick to Team 7.
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? Are you... saying the same thing Zyrre is saying? You're right, if you interpret it that way, it's not grounds for killing someone. When was someone killed on the grounds that they were the third voter on the bandwagon? BM's the one who tried to use it as an extra reason for lynching Team 7 (I believe) rather than his own team. And Ace was saying that it's not grounds for killing someone, because the idea isn't in the magical number 3, it's in mafia feeling safe voting as the Xth slot.
I'm not saying being third is grounds for killing someone. I'm saying that suggesting a Jeep tell isn't grounds for being killed. Which is what happened. Because of your partner. Because he said this type of argumentation was obviously a huge scumtell.
Clearly he was wrong.
Was it "MASSIVE"? Really? Was the largest train we've had this game, with 17 votes. At the time, the next strongest train was only 2/3rds as strong. That's a pretty large lead.
Without pushes toward either of those teams, mafia wouldn't have needed to start anything up. Explain this. In depth.
Specifically: Why do you know that mafia had to start something up? Who says T7-9 weren't also town? Couldn't they just have cruised to an easy town lynch either way? I think you just outted yourself hard, but we can deal with that tomorrow.
For the record, I didn't try to play it up? Yes you did. You started throwing shit at me on your first post during day 2. Go read it.
said that if you're town, you're wasting all of our times, but otherwise, you're scummy for, well, wasting all of our time when most of the argument is two guys bickering because they don't like each other. From my perspective anyway. So you said either I'm town and wasting time because you're obviously 100% legit or I'm mafia and wasting our time because you don't like the way the argument is going?
Do you not notice how devoid of content those statements are?
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DTA if you want to switch your vote off me to T9, I wouldn't mind doing that.
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I'm going back to voting for Team 9, mostly since L has been a lot more active and has actually posted quality, and I'm still worried that Ace and L could both be town, which would spell doom for us, whereas the more Team 9 posts, the more I'm convinced they are scum.
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And where the FUCK is everyone. Inactivity could kill this game.
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EPT
