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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I have to disagree with you Citizen, sidesprang was lynched because several things pointed to him being the mafia copycat. The only other real option was him being a very bad townie.
But moving on. JeeJee has information right now that pretty much no one else does.
i didn't go for copycat so presumably we have some liars up in here
either that or hobbes is mafia
for the role that he is (or should be), he sure isn't doing shit with it.
then again neither is sidesprang so i'm at a loss here
Now that sidesprang is gone, JeeJee is claiming that he tried for a role and failed to get it. Which means that someone above him has his role. He also is claiming that whoever that person is, is failing to use it in a pro-town manner. I've looked through the roles, and I really can't figure out which role he could be talking about though. DayVig is the only one that seems likely.
As far as who might have the role? In my mind the options are Opz, Falcynn or Hobbes. Bm and Foolishness have inventor and CV, if Korynne was lying about her pick then Foolishness would have outted her, Qatol is almost certainly telling the truth about trying for CopyCat, and everyone else is dead. Another possibility is that Foolishness and Korynne are both mafia, but I think this unlikely.
So JeeJee, if you truly think that whoever took your role is anti-town, then you should role claim, because you will likely lead us to a mafia. However, I leave the final judgement up to you, no point in outing a pro-town player's role.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I'd like to bring this back to our compvig hit. At this point it seems like everyone who has posts an opinion has said to hit Johnnyspazz. Personally I don't find him all that scummy, so I'd like to propose a possible second target.
At first I was suspicious of Falcynn, but I checked though his history and the main thing that jumped up was that he voted second on the sidesprang lynch, so he seems slightly in the clear.
But you know who does strike me as scummy? Scamp. I'm not familiar with his posting in other games, so this might be the norm, but he has accused just about everyone in this game of being mafia. Lets check out some posts
I already get the feeling that Radfield is mafia.
I, for one, am not afraid of a mafia copycat. If we get a mafia with a day 1 lynch then they had the role anyway. And even if we lose an exceptionally powerful role we'll still know where it is. I think it might be best to push for BM or Foolish right away, the only problem is whether or not I trust Korynne. Right now I'm not sure.
Personally, I'm wondering if there's a good reason not to lynch Foolishness right now.
Falcynn seems scummiest to me.
I don't see how killing Sidesprang gives any great information.
This one is taken slightly out of context, but still somewhat incriminating. He followed it with:
All that being said, Sidesprang still does look suspicious, and it'd be nice if he posted.
Sounds to me like Qatol is mafia. I'll add him to my list with Falcynn.
vote: Sidesprang
Finally puts a vote on Sidesprang, AFTER a majority was reached(I think)
So what do we have here, early on he pushes for a quick lynch of either BM or Foolishness, while downplaying the importance of the CopyCat. We now know that the copycat was in mafia hands. He puts a hard or soft FoS on pretty much any active poster he can: BM, Foolishness, Korynne, Falcynn, Qatol and myself.
This is not an open and shut case, but I'd love for a few other people to take a close look at him.
Also I am not yet recommending we switch our compvig vote. Lets stick with Johnnyspazz for now unless more people agree with me on Scamp.
##CompVig Johnnyspazz##
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 06 2010 08:07 Bill Murray wrote:
i dont need to prove shit to you
Bill, to avoid getting lynched you need to prove to everyone, not just Qatol, that you are pro-town. You have a very, very powerful ability, that is very deadly to the town if it's in mafia hands. Unfortunately for you, the person you passed out the phone to died the same night. This sucks for you, because it's suspicious by it's very nature. This is why tonight, you need to make an invention that is very obviously pro-town, so we can all go "phew" looks like Bill is very unlikely to be mafia.
If you invent something obscure again, against the direct wishes of the town, what other option are you leaving us? Look at it from our point of view, we HAVE to be sure the inventor is on our side. The only way to be sure is if the inventor is following instructions from the towns collective judgement.
How else can we be sure?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I have been shot at and saved by the medic. Good work medic.
Likely scenario:Foolishness kills Jspazz, Mafia shoot at me, SK kills Bill Murray.
If you think about it, BM was a bigger threat to the SK then anyone else in the game. Considering that the only way the SK can get found is either the tracker or BM's inventions.
On May 06 2010 15:50 Bill Murray wrote:
good game guys. i was going to not invent anything as if i was a mafia i'd obviously invent something and give it to the mafia. by way of not inventing anything, i was proving to you all i was innocent.
i hope you all win.
Wow, the likelihood of us lynching you for this move was decently high... oh well
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
OK, lets look at some potential suspects. Foolishness certainly gets a pass for now, no reason to worry about him as long as he keeps shooting properly. But, I think it likely the mafia would have had someone put down 1 as there number, so....
Korynne: A lot of theorycrafting early on, but posting less and less as time goes on, barely contributing at all as far as our lynch suspect or compvig hit. She has continually mentioned that killing her off for info is a good idea. She voted 6th on the Sidesprang lynch with very little analysis. We would gain a bit of info from her death(if she's red then foolishness and citizen are almost certainly green) but not much
Korynne, I'm pointing the FoS at you. I don't have a great case, but I'd like to hear you on the record with who you find scummy and why, and who you think we should lynch/compvig today.
Also, I think it very unlikely that Qatol is mafia. Serial Killer maybe, but that goes for anyone at his point, no matter how pro-town they've been. Qatol basically got sidesprang killed by revealing that he went for copycat and missed. I can't think of any good reason for sidesprang's or qatol's actions if they were mafia buddies.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Forgot to mention, she also made some strange contradictory comments about role checking and alignment checking. It really jumped out at the time. She claimed Vanilla, and then suggested that we rolecheck her? If you were a Vanilla mafia a great way to clear some suspicious off of oneself would be to get rolechecked. It tells nothing about alignment, but makes you at worst a powerless mafia.
Also, a big note to the Serial Killer. You need to be playing on the town side. With a 8:3:1 ratio, things are definitely in favor of the mafia, considering we don't have any great leads. I propose we vote on the Serial Killer hit tonight in addition to our CompVig hit. Presumably it is in the best interests of the SK and he/she may follow along.
If the SK doesn't follow along, it doesn't hurt us anyways. Thoughts?
People who strike me as possible Mafia: One of JeeJee or Hobbes(where are you?) , Scamp, DarthTheinAn
I'd like to hear all of your thoughts on lynching and CompVig hitting.
People who strike me as Not-Mafia: Citizen, Qatol, Falcynn, maybe Zona
(I don't like innocent lists[check out incognito last game], and can explain all of the people on this list if need be)
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 07 2010 00:12 [NyC]HoBbes wrote:
JeeJee, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. It would be nice if I could PM you to be sure, but I think we're on the same page here. In that case, I'm pretty sure you're also town-aligned
Well, as far as I'm concerned this takes both Hobbes and JeeJee off the short list. They might both be mafia together, but in that case one will lead us to the other.
Qatol, I was re-reading those posts I put up this morning, and I was a little bit confused as to why I put Citizen on that non-mafia list as well. The reason is this though, pretty much everyone on my suspicious list has called out citizen as potential mafia. Citizen style this game also just seems so obviously scummy, (right down to the pointless arguing with you, when you are very obviously in my eyes non-mafia) that I'm inclined to think him a townie. If pressed I would take him off the non-mafia list, but I don't think him all that likely to be scummy.
As far as Falcynn, my sole reasoning is that he immediately agreed with my origional post about sidesprang, and the way he worded everything strikes me as town. No one else had agreed with me about Sidesprang yet, and yet he was still the first one aboard. I think a mafia would have been slightly less ok with it.
The post I'm referring to:
On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: Show nested quote On May 04 2010 21:08 Radfield wrote: + Show Spoiler +2b Falcynn wishy washily claimed VANILLA without actually doing it Alright, I guess I should clearly state, I'm a vanilla townie. I decided not to make mention of it since . Was preparing for/doing this on Friday/Saturday http://www.filmracing.com/Cities/sanfrancisco.htm and missed the role claims because of it. I'll make a blog of it Thursday night/Friday since we're not allowed to upload our video until after the screening (yeah, this is really more to just get attention for my future blog post then to actually explain myself ) Anyways, as for lynching sidesprang, you're logic seems pretty sound, I guess at this point with all the information that's been gathered, it'd be nice to make sure whether or not everyone at the top of the list has been telling the truth about their roles. If we can get a day vig hit then that might help, although I'm not sure if we'd be able to figure out another lynch target and pile the votes on them in time. It'd suck to essentially waste a day vig hit by not getting the lynch to add to it =/ On May 04 2010 22:52 Falcynn wrote: oh right ##vote sidesprang ##
Korynne: I completely understand what you're saying about possibly being burnt out etc. However, I think you're a very clever player. You played your first game as a very active townie, you played your second game as a very active mafia, and being very convincing at that. I'm inclined to think that if you got mafia again in this game, you might play it exactly the way you are. Fake being tired of Mafia as an excuse to post less. Unfortunately for all of us, there's little you can do at this point to remove suspicion from yourself. Anyways, I'm genuinely hoping you're mafia, and that you're burnt out routine is an act, because you seem like a good player to have around.
Who do you think is the strongest candidate for mafia on that list? Cases have been made against JeeJee and Scamp so far. Out of the other players, both Darth and Korynne started out strong, but have really faded due to recent inactivity (which is actually a pretty strong scum tell usually). I don't believe Hobbes was super active at any point in the game? What do you think about OpZ?
Korynne is a good target, because I think despite her alignment, she told the truth about being Vanilla. So worst case scenario we kill a vanilla townie who isn't that upset about being killed anyways, but gives us a lead to Foolishness maybe. Best case we get a vanilla mafia.
JeeJee and Hobbes should get a pass for today, but if a bunch of other targets turn up innocent, we might have to hit them both. At some point the information they are sharing needs to be made public. If we don't hit a mafia with our lynch or comphit hit today, and the SK hits another townie, we'll need as much info as we can get. If we had to lynch one of them, I'd go with JeeJee
I stand by what I said earlier about Scamp, but if we decide to lynch him and he is the medic, then he needs to roleclaim. If no one contradicts him, then we call off the lynch. Keep in mind, the medic is basically a confirmed townie, and pretty much a confirmed non-SK. I can't see why the SK would take medic as a role, though perhaps to deny it from the town, perhaps because it gives him/her a convenient cover.
~opz~: I think Opz threw me off his trail by his vehement defense when I called him out. He just seemed outraged that I was wasting time by putting him on any suspect lists. What made me suspect him was how he tried to sidetrack my Sidesprang argument, but looking at it now makes me think it was just a knee-jerk reaction of seeing his name on a suspect list. I also buy his story of trying for CompVig and failing. Likely Vanilla either way. Personally his posting makes me think he's town. I put him as a second string lynch target for now.
DarthTheinAn seems suspect. He made a case against ~opz~ early on. Votes for Jspazz over JeeJee for the CV hit. Try's to give Scamp a pass for being TOO mafia. None of these things necessarily make him a mafia. But his posting in general smacks of mafia to me, I recommend everyone look through his posting. Points out lots of obvious stuff, steers the convo away from certain people, lots of theorycrafting early on, not much talk about voting later on. Darth seems mafia, and seems like he might lead us to other mafia.
I vote we lynch DarthTheinAn, If he flops red, then I propose we Compvig Scamp, and ask the SK to hit JeeJee
##Vote DarthTheinAn##
I haven't really talked about Zona, but I really don't have much to say about him. He seems fairly legit and is likely working hard on the zbot....
I didn't proofread as I've run out of time and steam. If there's anything I said that doesn't make sense please point it out.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I just realized contradicted myself a bit about JeeJee. I first said he should get a pass, and then said we should hit him. It's because I only saw the Darth connection after I wrote the first part.
Of course all of this only holds if Darth flops red.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
First thing that jumps out at me is if you believe the mafia didn't intentionally pick the same number (on 6 or 8 no less), JeeJee and Darth are not mafia together.
That's a good point. JeeJee and Darth are likely not mafia together. JeeJee is less likely overall given the fact that he possibly shares numbers with Sidesprang. It is possible he lied about them. Worth checking the time stamps on all the number claims to see if he was totally in the clear when he posted his numbers. If he was, it gives that defence less credibility.
Either Scamp or Darth are good targets. I don't mind lynching either one.
Whoever the medic is out there, be sure to roleclaim if you are going to be killed by the town, whether it by lynching, CV or suggested SK hit. As far as I'm concerned, the medic is very very likely pro-town. Unfortunately this quickly lowers the possible people the medic could be, and makes his/her death-by-mafia much more likely. Lets just hope there's a meth-man out there as well to keep the mafia honest.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
I still say Darth. He is higher on the list, meaning he likely has a strong power then Scamp. Of course this is bad if he's town, but at this point I think we need to play to win. Not play to not lose.
As I see it, if Darth flips red we lynch Scamp. If Darth flips green we lynch JeeJee.
This is all fairly weak reasoning though, so if someone has a better reason to lynch someone else I look forward to it.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Just because Radfield took a hit doesn't mean there's a medic. He could be SK. In fact, I think it's more likely he's SK than there was a medic protection. If he really did take a hit, it makes more sense for him to just say "I took a hit last night" as opposed to "I took a hit, thanks medic". First, he's revealed to the mafia that there is a medic (assuming he's innocent), and second, given the diverse roles available, if he just says "I took a hit" then that still leaves ambiguity in what his role could be. It's possible he was saved by a medic, he could be a veteran, he could be bulletproof, BM could have invented something (although Ace didn't say anything). Also, what's to say there's a medic protecting him and not a Jack?
You're might be right here Foolishness. It's possible I shouldn't have revealed that I was saved by a medic, and should have left the ambiguity of bulletproof or veteran. I had other things on my mind(korynne and the SK), and wanted to get the info about what happened out into the open. I also didn't consider the possibility of the Joat. Anyways, I DID get saved last night, so I guarantee there is either a medic or a joat in the game. However, the only real way to prove I'm not lying is to put my name on the chopping block, and see if someone pops up to confirm me. We have better targets for now though, especially considering I'm about as non-mafia as you can get right now. At worst I'm an elaborately lying SK, and with things the way they are, the SK is the least of our worries.
Also, please post who you think we should lynch. While your post has some good points, it's mainly a big sidetrack.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
We only have a few hours left till lynch time, so it's time to hone in on people. At this point we have several different routes to go, and several different suspects. The key in my mind, is lynching someone who gives us info towards aiming our CV hit. So if you're going to propose to lynch someone, I'd like to know who you're going to vote for the CV hit if they flop red or green.
I'll reiterate my current stance: Lynch Darth, if red CV scamp, if green CV JeeJee. The reason being, I think one of Darth and JeeJee are mafia, so if not Darth then JeeJee. And if Darth is red, then we follow up with our second most suspicious person Scamp.
If we lynch Korynne, what do we do if she turns up green? CV Foolishness? Not likely.
If she turns up red who do we CV? Darth? JeeJee? Scamp?
I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts along this line of thinking. I'd also love to hear what Zona has to say. With 12 in the game we need 7 to lynch. We need to learn from our lynchings, I'm not saying my plan is the best, but I just want everyone to think in terms of a long-term plan. So don't bother criticizing my Darth plan, just come up with a better one.
Also, if we don't get a mafia tonight, we are basically forced to lynch Foolishness tomorrow in an effort to buy time. We don't need to discuss this yet, but lets keep it in mind.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
This is some interesting voting on Korynne... I'm not even sure what to make of it yet
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
The thing with Foolishness is, it doesn't really matter if he's town or mafia aligned. At some point his CV hits will become a dangerous detriment to the town and we'll have to lynch him just to stay alive. We also have to lynch him before it becomes possible for him and the mafia to make a double hit and gain a huge advantage.
Other than that we keep him alive for the extra kills until we're down to one mafia, then we lynch him. There's just no reason to have a CV with only one mafia around.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 07 2010 08:18 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 08:07 Radfield wrote:
We only have a few hours left till lynch time, so it's time to hone in on people. At this point we have several different routes to go, and several different suspects. The key in my mind, is lynching someone who gives us info towards aiming our CV hit. So if you're going to propose to lynch someone, I'd like to know who you're going to vote for the CV hit if they flop red or green.
I'll reiterate my current stance: Lynch Darth, if red CV scamp, if green CV JeeJee. The reason being, I think one of Darth and JeeJee are mafia, so if not Darth then JeeJee. And if Darth is red, then we follow up with our second most suspicious person Scamp.
If we lynch Korynne, what do we do if she turns up green? CV Foolishness? Not likely.
If she turns up red who do we CV? Darth? JeeJee? Scamp?
I'd like to hear other peoples thoughts along this line of thinking. I'd also love to hear what Zona has to say. With 12 in the game we need 7 to lynch. We need to learn from our lynchings, I'm not saying my plan is the best, but I just want everyone to think in terms of a long-term plan. So don't bother criticizing my Darth plan, just come up with a better one.
Also, if we don't get a mafia tonight, we are basically forced to lynch Foolishness tomorrow in an effort to buy time. We don't need to discuss this yet, but lets keep it in mind.
Fine, I'll bite. I agree that he is suspicious and we need to lynch someone right now. ##Vote: DarThienAn##Though citi.zen never ceases to amaze me with his ability to come out of nowhere and vote. I want to try something out tonight. ##CompVig: citi.zen##This is just a theory, but I think he is the serial killer. Why? Well go back and look at his discussion of inventions. He specifically emphasizes inventions that not only the town, but the SK would also be immune to (immune to alignment checks, guns that can only kill MAFIA not guns that CANNOT KILL INNOCENTS) Finally, I'm hoping that the SK will work with us tonight (and they very well might if I'm off base on this). In that case, I'd like them to hit either Scamp or JeeJee based on how this lynch comes out.
I like this plan, although there is no reason to vote on the compvig just yet. We can see how the lynch turns out first.
I've already voted, but in an effort to spur things along
##Vote DarthTheinAn##
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
There is flaw in our plan Qatol. By putting down all these follow up names(Scamp, Citizen, JeeJee) it's likely they just won't vote for Darth. Hobbes has stated he's gone for the night.
That means to get 7 we need Zona, Opz, Falcynn(where did you go????) and Foolishness to all vote in favor of Darth. If Darth IS mafia and one of those 4 are mafia, then they can stop the vote from going through. However, there is the chance that someone may be Floridian too, which could push us over.
I propose that if Scamp, Citizen or JeeJee vote for Darth, then we hold off on voting them off the island. Prove your pro-townness and vote off Darth!
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Does foolishness always have this kind of attitude? (it doesn't sit well with me, not saying it's scummy. feels like ace, caller, bm, etc.)
I agree, the cast majority of Foolishness' posts come across with a very aggressive tone. That's more metagame than anything pertinent though.
@Darth
Darth, let me be clear, I don't have a solid case against you like I did against Sidesprang. Here is why you strike me as scummy. If you're town you'll hopefully understand my reasoning, if you're mafia you'll know where you went wrong. Some of these points are stronger than others, none of them make any kind of case against you on their own.
You missed the first vote, so did many people, but either way this is not a good sign.
You contributed a lot early on when we weren't discussing mafia at all, and then your activity level plummeted once we got around to lynching and CVing.
You point out a lot of obvious stuff in your early posts. You also do a lot of agreeing without a lot of adding your own suggestions. Lots of 'so what do we do next team', 'lets get a plan'
You call out amnesia and Jspazz as scummy, both flip town.(again, none of these on their own are indicative of mafia on their own)
You did NOT vote for Sidesprang.
you're "inclined to think Scamp is town". And then THREE minutes later you waffle on it after a nothing comment by JSpazz
On May 06 2010 11:53 DarthThienAn wrote:
But Radfield brings up a really good point - multiple accusations and trying to stir up a kill seems a little scummy. BUT. If what BM says is true about last game, then that clears Scamp. Not to mention that the mass finger pointing seems a little TOO much for mafia. Mafia would try to lay low right? That or try to be all goodie goodie town town. I'm inclined to think Scamp is town.
On May 06 2010 11:53 johnnyspazz wrote:
see, that's what scamp wants you to think so he can skate by
On May 06 2010 11:50 DarthThienAn wrote:
O_o. That simple sentence makes me really confused about Scamp T_T...
You're more recent posts are not in the Zbot and I don't feel like searching for more. These in a nutshell are why I think you're scum. Because you've talked so much, we would gain a lot of info from you flipping red. Also, the more I look through you're posts the scummier you look...
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 07 2010 10:00 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 08:48 Radfield wrote:
There is flaw in our plan Qatol. By putting down all these follow up names(Scamp, Citizen, JeeJee) it's likely they just won't vote for Darth. Hobbes has stated he's gone for the night.
That means to get 7 we need Zona, Opz, Falcynn(where did you go????) and Foolishness to all vote in favor of Darth. If Darth IS mafia and one of those 4 are mafia, then they can stop the vote from going through. However, there is the chance that someone may be Floridian too, which could push us over.
I propose that if Scamp, Citizen or JeeJee vote for Darth, then we hold off on voting them off the island. Prove your pro-townness and vote off Darth! Voting Darth doesn't prove my pro townness...remember Darth wants me dead. -_- So if I'm mafia, and he's mafia, and he's drawing attention to me...but wait...if he's town and I'm mafia/town it makes me more suspicious?! OMG!! What do I do gais!!!?
That part wasn't directed at you Opz. I assume you will vote for Darth because it makes sense to you. I don't really suspect you much right now.
The pro-townness part was for those people who I most suspect are mafia.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 07 2010 10:02 ~OpZ~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2010 08:22 Radfield wrote:
The thing with Foolishness is, it doesn't really matter if he's town or mafia aligned. At some point his CV hits will become a dangerous detriment to the town and we'll have to lynch him just to stay alive. We also have to lynch him before it becomes possible for him and the mafia to make a double hit and gain a huge advantage.
Other than that we keep him alive for the extra kills until we're down to one mafia, then we lynch him. There's just no reason to have a CV with only one mafia around. or let him be mod killed for not killing...(Is that a bannable mod kill?!) We could just use that to our benefit....Ya dig?
That's actually not a bad idea, although it really depends on the situation. There may be a time when we simply can't risk him being mafia and getting off a double kill.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Damn damn damn  I really thought I had a shot at winning this. 2 for 2 on scum hunting makes me feel good though.
Oh well, this has been insanely fun.
Good luck everyone, hope you enjoy it!
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EPT
