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World at War Mafia - Page 85
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nemY
United States3119 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On April 01 2010 14:05 Zona wrote: First, take note of Foolishness's quote on Ace's general dislike of Bus Driver roles. You mean me. Foolishness isn't playing  Had to wait for the night post before hitting the sack. Anyways, a pity to see you go, as I was hoping someone would shoot the nuke down for you. As for Xelin, major face-palm here, but at least it is the end of a chapter, and we can put our focus on other subjects. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
First off, Iaaan's ability claim is a fairly interesting one. I only have one question to ask though - would you be willing to be nuked by someone to confirm this? If not, why not? As for fishball's message: On April 01 2010 10:35 Fishball wrote: Nikon, for trying to extend the day for the N'th time with his last minute nuke, against town consensus (duh), at an arguably lesser target based on general consensus, Zona. I still don't see the reasoning behind this nuke quite honestly. For one, it was largely last moment, I think within the last 5 minutes, no? Two: It's directed at, at least in my opinion, a very pro-town player. And three: it ended up using an anti-nuke. True, we can't confirm the legitimacy of your nuke, but we also can't prove this unless we use Iaaan's claim which I'll address later. Caller, lurking and laying low. Of course this alone wouldn't be enough for him to make the top of my list. Listen up, I am France, a Tracker. One of my abilities is to track who visited who at Night. I used this ability on Caller during Night ... the most likely scenario is that Caller is red and he killed Meeple. Going with the assumption that a) Fishball is a tracker who b) can target one person each night and follow that person, it sort of makes sense that Fishball hasn't posted largely during day 1. Caller did seem quite suspicious so I can see why Fishball would track him. This hinges on the assumption though, that Fishball is indeed a tracker. His story does make sense and gives justifications to his actions back on the eternal Day 1 with him not posting as much. I assume this was to not seem high-priority, though you can correct me if it was done for a different reason. On April 01 2010 11:18 Caller wrote: Well, gentlemen and woman, my idea of coming clean has been most rudely interrupted. I am Israel, an Alignment Cop. ... Since he came out scummy, and he was in fact innocent, that narrows it down to insane or paranoid, i.e. that my checks come out reversed, or all countries appear as mafia to my agents. I'm not sure where to start with this. I don't know whether to say it's conjured up because fishball tracked him, or if this is the case. What I'm confused about is why Nikon? For both sides actually. Nikon was suspicious, at least in my eyes, for firing the nuke on Zona. So I can slightly understand the DT check, though I think it'd be better served on a few other players. As for the bus, I haven't an idea why Nikon and meeple be switched. The whole thing looks a bit sketchy to me and I'd keep an eye on this personally. lol@the youtube video Now, given that Zona's confirmed vigilante, let's look at this post: On April 01 2010 14:05 Zona wrote: Alright. Things I want the town to look at in case I die. Caller's claim is well-crafted, but coincidentally very convenient. First, take note of Foolishness's quote on Ace's general dislike of Bus Driver roles. So that's one point against the claim. But let's assume there is a bus driver, and the bus driver happens to work the way Caller claims. It's too convenient that the bus driver happened to switch Nikon (someone who everyone is suspicious of, and thus a reasonable player to check) and meeple (someone who died). It's convenient that Caller can now claim cop without providing any useful information at all (perhaps he has none). Remember that this is something Caller came up with to otherwise explain the very suspicious track that Fishball claims to have tracked Caller with. This should be noted and kept in mind. We'll have to look at what Caller posts in terms of information and veracity in order to ascertain his role claim. This also extends to Fishball as well. Since both of these players have roleclaimed, there's no reason for them to withhold any of their night actions once the Day post goes up each time, unless someone can show me otherwise. I would say it's highly likely that the balance to the fact that the mafia has such low KP is their power to nuke. As well, notice that someone claims to have their nukes stolen. It's very possible that these nukes are now in mafia hands. I find this particular piece of information to be a bit troublesome. Someone has had their nuclear weapons stolen. It's particularly troublesome if indeed that this ability is within mafia realm. Especially with the fuckup of Day 1, we are already at Moderate, which is assuming that we have reached approximately half of the ToD. With no mafia found yet, I only hope we have enough anti-nukes to fend off any surprise nuke raid or such. If we guess that the setup includes 3-5 mafia and 1 serial killer, then with 16-18 town members and 3 regular deaths per cycle: one lynch, one mafia kill, one sk kill, (we can afford 3 or 4 days of mislynching before we're boned, if we didn't nuke. However, since we've lost quite a few town members to impulsive nukes, the town might be in a losing situation as quickly as day or night 3. It probably will be a good idea to mass claim and consensus (not impulsive individually) nuke on day 3 if nothing improves between now and then. If I'm correct that one of the night kills is from the serial killer, eliminating this serial killer will give the town a substantial amount of breathing room it didn't have before. This is vital. Guys, the first day really set us back. We are down *several* people due to impulsiveness. 3 people are going to die every day barring medic-prots and no-lynches. With no-lynches, we are still going down 2 people every day. We currently have 13 players alive going into night phase which means we may potentially sit at 11 players coming out. We absolutely need to find scum asap. To the rest of you town members: Stop lying. Lying hurts the town because the town is trying to work together to figure things out, and lying leads us off track. If the people who are lying so much and diverting the town's attention are actually town, I'm aghast at how you play. Stop ignoring anti-town actions under the umbrella of "idiot/impulsive" townie. This. Townies have no reason to lie. The objective of this game isn’t to ‘survive’ or ‘kill all the mafia yourself’, it’s to get rid of all the scum as a whole. The whole reason we are together as a town is because we need to play as a collective town. This impulsive nuke shooting really set us back a lot on day 1, and now on day 2, we’re down another two blues because one of them had a feeling. It is imperative that we work as a town instead of just doing what we feel like individually. I have a plan that I would like implement tomorrow that does involve roleclaiming after the day post; however, DO NOT ROLE CLAIM TONIGHT. You can roleclaim after the day post goes up, that’s fine. You can wait until after my plan. Whatever. Just whatever you do, do not role claim during this night. For tomorrow I would like to see the results of the findings from both Fishball and Caller, explaining why they also chose whoever they chose to track/investigate. With this information, and the role claiming tomorrow, then I hope we can make up for the mishaps during days 1 and 2 and win. If anybody is in opposition of the roleclaiming on day 3 I’d like to hear reasons why. There may have been something I’ve overlooked and it’s really important we get a good solid plan, so I’m open to criticism, suggestions, or changes to the roleclaiming idea. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
On April 01 2010 14:33 nemY wrote: Hey guys sorry i haven't done much this game; i really don't know what's going on at this point. A few of you say you suspect me, but rest assured I am a townie who's just been inactive in this game (check the first mini mafia game, i've been all over that one). Anyways if you guys want me to publicly r/c I can, otherwise Ima just chill for a bit Yes. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
Fishball is likely to be slain tonight...I really doubt there is another medic in a game with mafia only having 1 KP. Also, I did think of at least one reason to kill Amber. Possibly attempt at discrediting me seeing as I raged against him. This would be an idiot reason, and would prefer to think that the SK was actually trying to hit a mafia for us. Thanks Home Slice. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
anyway, it's very simple to confirm both fishball and caller, i don't see what the fuss is about THIS IS MY PLAN. point out flaws please, we are on a time crunch here. have fishball track caller again, and have caller check someone suspicious (i vote iaaan). if caller visits iaaan and iaaan doesn't die, and is confirmed by fishball, we're gravy. of course the problem is mafia hitting either one of the two. my take is we probably DO have another medic somewhere (medics are less imba than people give them credit for.. a medic that doesn't save anyone is basically a townie, and it's hard as fuck to save people), so decide who you're gonna prot, either fishball or caller. remember mafia have just one KP, and if they want to kill either one, they basically have a 50% chance to waste ALL of their KP. i doubt they'll take the risk with other good targets for them out there. so that means when we're in day3, we are golden, and i guess we can start lmnop's roleclaim-based plan assuming he lives through the night (why not post it now?) obviously if our medic is focused on fishball/caller, i'm probably going to end up biting it, but i'm sure when we finally get organized, have 2 confirmed blues on top of two masons, and a rolecheck on a very suspicious person, we can start turning this ship around. | ||
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
I have nothing to say anything about Xelin except good riddance. He played just like North Korea in the game, ignoring what people thought, even lying about validity of his nuke to successfully bomb the obvious pro-town player. Only thing we got out of this debacle is that, like ~OpZ~ mentioned, the player's country itself cannot be used to indicate that player's scumminess as two countries that is thought as "axis of evil" have proven to be blue and pro-town. This is one of his ridiculous ideas that I find a need to reject: On April 01 2010 05:14 XeliN wrote: If you are townie your strategy was idiotic as the mafia are unlikely even to have any nukes, and if they do they are sparse. Which is why Jeejee found himself one nukes short. Everyone should plan under assumption Mafia is saving up decent pile of nukes, because otherwise they can just attempt to bomb us down to bring our numbers equal or lower than them. I find laaan claim also very convenient, with the fact that nuking him will do nothing but raise ToD. but I can see Ace putting such abilities in especially since he has already suggested some players having secondary means of defense against nuke. If - I put if here because I am going to play Devil's Advocate later - we are going to roleclaim, then he should be one of the major detective check considerations. I find Fishball's claim very believable. Tracker is very powerful ability we have since anyone that goes to other players is likely to be Mafia- it is not kind of role Mafia can afford to ignore just to plant a seed of doubt on us. As for the Caller's counter roleclaim I find iffy. First off, I agree there is possibility that bus driver tried to frame Caller; if he isn't Mafia, they are obviously going to know from Caller's odd comments that he is blue role, which they could exploit by bus driving him toward meeple. But this possibility is garbage. They don't even know there are Tracker in the game, and if there are, what are the chances of Tracker checking Caller out of all the other suspects? It could be argued that Mafia bus driver'd Caller just to prevent him from using his abilities, but then it would have been more efficient for Mafia to roleblock Caller since bus driver probably have limited amount of times he can use his abilities. I say unless Jeejee's plan goes successfully due to medic save, we lynch him. Okay, also the idea of mass role-claim seem to be getting popular. I don't see anyone trying to find flaws in this plan, so this is my few pennies. First, we know Mafia can roleblock and steal nukes; is revealing all blue roles they can strategically kill/nuke/block really such a good idea? Second, the plan goes around the assumption that some Mafia will choose to claim as blue. It is true green-claimers are going to be suspected more than blue-claimers, but at this state of the Town they only have to keep themselves alive for just few more days- especially if 3 people are going to die every day as you claim. Obviously I could be missing something here, but I think the disadvantages of the plan - endangering blue roles - are greater than potential benefits. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
We need information. | ||
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
secondly. i'll go with the mass roleclaim idea for day 3. it's dumb as all get out to do it now, when it can benefit the mafia in determining their night kill(s). the only reason i am agreeing with it in this situation is because if something doesn't happen day 3, this is pretty much game over due to the numbers. and if this is what the town wants to do, i'll go with it. | ||
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
On April 01 2010 15:16 Elemenope wrote: I come back and I see some interesting things. First off, Iaaan's ability claim is a fairly interesting one. I only have one question to ask though - would you be willing to be nuked by someone to confirm this? If not, why not? As for fishball's message: I still don't see the reasoning behind this nuke quite honestly. For one, it was largely last moment, I think within the last 5 minutes, no? Two: It's directed at, at least in my opinion, a very pro-town player. And three: it ended up using an anti-nuke. True, we can't confirm the legitimacy of your nuke, but we also can't prove this unless we use Iaaan's claim which I'll address later. Going with the assumption that a) Fishball is a tracker who b) can target one person each night and follow that person, it sort of makes sense that Fishball hasn't posted largely during day 1. Caller did seem quite suspicious so I can see why Fishball would track him. This hinges on the assumption though, that Fishball is indeed a tracker. His story does make sense and gives justifications to his actions back on the eternal Day 1 with him not posting as much. I assume this was to not seem high-priority, though you can correct me if it was done for a different reason. I'm not sure where to start with this. I don't know whether to say it's conjured up because fishball tracked him, or if this is the case. What I'm confused about is why Nikon? For both sides actually. Nikon was suspicious, at least in my eyes, for firing the nuke on Zona. So I can slightly understand the DT check, though I think it'd be better served on a few other players. As for the bus, I haven't an idea why Nikon and meeple be switched. The whole thing looks a bit sketchy to me and I'd keep an eye on this personally. lol@the youtube video Now, given that Zona's confirmed vigilante, let's look at this post: This should be noted and kept in mind. We'll have to look at what Caller posts in terms of information and veracity in order to ascertain his role claim. This also extends to Fishball as well. Since both of these players have roleclaimed, there's no reason for them to withhold any of their night actions once the Day post goes up each time, unless someone can show me otherwise. I find this particular piece of information to be a bit troublesome. Someone has had their nuclear weapons stolen. It's particularly troublesome if indeed that this ability is within mafia realm. Especially with the fuckup of Day 1, we are already at Moderate, which is assuming that we have reached approximately half of the ToD. With no mafia found yet, I only hope we have enough anti-nukes to fend off any surprise nuke raid or such. This is vital. Guys, the first day really set us back. We are down *several* people due to impulsiveness. 3 people are going to die every day barring medic-prots and no-lynches. With no-lynches, we are still going down 2 people every day. We currently have 13 players alive going into night phase which means we may potentially sit at 11 players coming out. We absolutely need to find scum asap. This. Townies have no reason to lie. The objective of this game isn’t to ‘survive’ or ‘kill all the mafia yourself’, it’s to get rid of all the scum as a whole. The whole reason we are together as a town is because we need to play as a collective town. This impulsive nuke shooting really set us back a lot on day 1, and now on day 2, we’re down another two blues because one of them had a feeling. It is imperative that we work as a town instead of just doing what we feel like individually. I have a plan that I would like implement tomorrow that does involve roleclaiming after the day post; however, DO NOT ROLE CLAIM TONIGHT. You can roleclaim after the day post goes up, that’s fine. You can wait until after my plan. Whatever. Just whatever you do, do not role claim during this night. For tomorrow I would like to see the results of the findings from both Fishball and Caller, explaining why they also chose whoever they chose to track/investigate. With this information, and the role claiming tomorrow, then I hope we can make up for the mishaps during days 1 and 2 and win. If anybody is in opposition of the roleclaiming on day 3 I’d like to hear reasons why. There may have been something I’ve overlooked and it’s really important we get a good solid plan, so I’m open to criticism, suggestions, or changes to the roleclaiming idea. this is a very useful post. just thought i would draw attention to it. | ||
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
On April 02 2010 00:41 haster27 wrote: I don't necessarily agree with it, but I'll go along with it if that is the Town concensus. It's just that roles like Detective and Tracker become more and more powerful the longer they collect information (especially with the confusion between idiot Townie and, well, normal Mafia). We got a tracker and a...weird dt....claim....so... -_-...So much bs nuking...Guess I can't talk much, but at least my target was a suspect. -_- GOD dammit Xelin and Versatile >< | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On April 02 2010 03:21 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: The problem with claiming is that mafia have a roleblocker. So i expect fishball will be blocked tonight. Fishball is eating lunch right now. | ||
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
On April 02 2010 03:03 ~OpZ~ wrote: We got a tracker and a...weird dt....claim....so... -_-...So much bs nuking...Guess I can't talk much, but at least my target was a suspect. -_- GOD dammit Xelin and Versatile >< umm, wanna add nikon and RoL to that well? + Show Spoiler + jackass. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
On April 01 2010 19:56 ~OpZ~ wrote: Why not during the night phase LMNOP? Fishball is likely to be slain tonight...I really doubt there is another medic in a game with mafia only having 1 KP. Also, I did think of at least one reason to kill Amber. Possibly attempt at discrediting me seeing as I raged against him. This would be an idiot reason, and would prefer to think that the SK was actually trying to hit a mafia for us. Thanks Home Slice. The reason why we don't Role claim during night is to limit scum's chances of hitting a more important role than tracker. I'm still not sure about Caller's claim though I believe fishball's to be true given the circumstances. At the current moment, having role claims would be harmful during the night to give scum opportunities to select more targets. Also keep in mind that an SK is also out there and roleclaims during the night can only help the SK hit good targets as well. With this in mind, as JeeJee and verse said, if there is a medic, prot Fishball I would say. Caller's still a bit suspicious in my mind, and fishball is much definitely a safer choice. As for haster, we're going to be down to 12, possibly 11 people tonight, unless we still have a vigi out there which may shoot for possibly 10. The action may seem drastic, but it's very necessary in my opinion. Had the whole endless Day 1 never happened, we probably wouldn't be in the situation. I'd prefer having the investigative roles get more info, but the time to action is here. | ||
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Elemenope
Burkina Faso1704 Posts
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~OpZ~
United States3652 Posts
On April 02 2010 04:22 Versatile wrote: umm, wanna add nikon and RoL to that well? + Show Spoiler + jackass. RoL's was probably because I defended him and then became suspicious of JohnnySpazz =/ His nuke on Caller...is arguably justified, as Caller had hardly posted BEFORE the random nuke session began. So I'm not hating on RoL too much. Nikon is just a scum bag for making me have to shoot down his nuke on RoL....And Xelin too, though I could not get that one shot down... | ||
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haster27
Taiwan809 Posts
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