EPTWorld at War Mafia - Page 58
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 28 2010 12:47 L wrote: Here's mine: Well, okay then. At least I know how much you read. You're probably mafia and you're going to nuke again come daytime. I really don't give a shit about you say you're going to do, you already nuked once and should die immediately. Scenario #1: 1) I am mafia 2) I nuked 3) Upon being nuked, I immediately retaliatory nuke, or am saved by a fellow mafia member. Result: Town is in trouble, strategy flawed. Strategy #2: 1) I am town 2) I am nuked 3) Upon being nuked, I fulfill my promise, and do not retaliatory nuke. I die. Result: Town loses a townie, strategy flawed. *** Lets look at the facts: you said once I died you'd be okay with dying. Right? Right. I'd be okay with dying if my nuke was proven to be unjust and the town wanted me dead, yes. I stand by my word. So if that's the case, I'm probably going to get nuked in 3 hours because Versatile's a complete loser. I'm not entirely sure you'll be nuked, but continue... I'm going to flip town. When that happens why would you resist being nuked given that you admit that you'd LYNCH YOURSELF at that point? Do you just want to tie up another town lynch? Think about it. There's no way out of it. I would resist being nuked because that would raise the ToD even further. Presumably if you are not saved, and neither are Versatile and BM, the ToD will be much nearer. *** As versatile has pointed out, AND demonstrated, nuking people who've already been shown to have nukes is just downright stupid and suicidal. No, Versatile has demonstrated that she is anti-town by THROWING OUT THREE NUKES. [/quote]I'm not arguing that Versatile's moves were wise, or beneficial to the town, I'm simply saying that Versatile's retaliatory nuke was understandable. Everyone always wants to go out with a bang. Do you fucking THINK before you post? WHAT IS THERE TO STOP PEOPLE FROM NUKING WHOMEVER THEY WANT IF YOU THINK THAT COUNTER-NUKING ISNT AN OPTION? I do think before I post. I would imagine you do to, but differently. Tolerate difference. And there's nothing that would prevent people from nuking, except the suspicion of the town. That's one of the reasons that attempted to explain fully the reasons why I nuked you. If people nuke, they're calling attention to themselves, and of course they've got to have a good enough reason to do so, or be able to justify it some how in the eyes of the town. We just don't have the resources or the coordination at our disposal to be able to administer justice and uphold laws like would be optimal. We've got to make do with what we have. We're already going to have our lynches booked until day 3. The more nukes that are fired according to your plan, the less disincentive there is to nuke. Do you not get why that might be bad? Do you not understand how fucked that is? But then, who'd be willing to carry that judgment out, when it would possibly lead to a retaliatory nuke against themselves? In your scenario, all that happens is more dead townies, all in the name of justice. So essentially here you state that people should be willing not to nuke you because you'd nuke them back? But you just said you aren't going to nuke anymore. So why wouldn't someone nuke you at this point?[/QUOTE]I wasn't speaking specifically about myself. You also want to nuke XeliN, if I remember correctly. Your obsession with justice simply isn't applicable at this point in the game. It's time to take what we have right now, and deal with it in an appropriate and calm manner. Maybe it works, maybe it won't. I think your strategy would lead to intolerable ruin, and thus, we've got to soldier on in a different direction, no matter how uncertain and risky that direction is. We should let the mafia beat us, rather than get beaten by ourselves. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
-we've taken the same amount of nukes towards town, only you can throw your nuke whereever you want. -we don't have the option of nuking you on day 2 because you can still retaliate. So the net effect of not killing you is essentially granting you a gratis nuke usage. Strategy #2: If you're being nuked and you're town, why wouldn't you throw a nuke onto the person you're most suspicious of? You're already going to die, why not take the KP into your own hands and fix the town up on your own? 1) I am town 2) I am nuked 3) Upon being nuked, I fulfill my promise, and do not retaliatory nuke. I die. Result: Town loses a townie, strategy flawed. More importantly, lets look at this in another manner: Strategy #2b: 1) You're town 2) We lynch you as per your agreement. 3) We lose a townie AND a lynch. See where this is going? You're intentionally trying to soak tomorrow's lynch. But actually you're doing more than that. See your strategy number 2? You admit in the same post that even if you're town, you WILL retaliate: I wasn't speaking specifically about myself. When on the topic of not retaliating. We should let the mafia beat us, rather than get beaten by ourselves. Or we could kill the people who are most likely to be mafia and win. Those people are those who are distinctly anti-town.But really, that's irrelevant, it comes down to this: And there's nothing that would prevent people from nuking, except the suspicion of the town. That's one of the reasons that attempted to explain fully the reasons why I nuked you. You admit that everyone in this game, if we followed you, could nuke at will. Given the long lineup that'll form for lynches, people will be less and less likely to actually die via a nuke. This is the exact same type of operation that happened in the red mafia game wherein we killed ourselves almost immediately starting with 2 shitty townies basically starting a shooting spree. Zero mafia died. That's what you want to re-create and its pretty obvious that its not in town's favor to do so. Nuke this guy immediately after I die. Nuke XeliN as well. Since everyone's sitting around thinking someone else will do it, I will name 2 people. JeeJee and Haster. You're up to bat. If you don't want to, fine; pick someone of your choice. to do this. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
The first 4 lines are a comparison of if you're mafia and we nuke you compared to if you're mafia and we let you stay alive. Simply put you get to fire off an extra nuke. If you're mafia, there's nothing that's pro-town about letting you live. You'd fire off a nuke tomorrow AND soak our lynch. You might even try to get off the hook and not fire, only deciding to fire off a nuke the moment someone attempts to put you under the lynch bus. Which is exactly what you did to me. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Alert! Alert! Alert! ![[image loading]](http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200905/r377055_1754027.jpg) General! L has launched nukes against Caller! We have no clue if they are real or not until they strike! We have 24 hours to find out! Missiles launched by Versatile towards L will strike at 13:40 KST! Missiles launched by BM towards Versatile will strike at 15:28 KST! Missiles launched in retaliation by Versatile will strike BM at 15:42 KST! Missiles launched by L towards Caller will strike at 10:09 KST! Nukes in the air: 4 Nukes detonated: 1 Radiation levels: very low Day currently ends at 10:09 KST March29th | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
I'm the medic. hence why I didn't give a shit about the person with anti-nukes calling himself out; I'd have been able to protect him. I'm going to flip green or blue. My country is egypt. I might be able to stop one of these nukes from dealing any damage, but I can't save myself so its kinda useless. If i'd have claimed earlier, I'd have died during the night to mafia anyways. That said: You guys need to start nuking the kids who have nuked without consent. Period. If some of you die? Oh well, you've probably just killed a mafia member. You can't let people throw nukes left and right or you will lose. See the prior game with a similar ruleset for information. tree.hugger's posts make near zero-sense. They're literally doublespeak. Do not listen to pretty much anything he says and please nuke his face off. More importantly: Who are you guys going to kill tomorrow? I'm pretty sure Iaaan is mafia. tree.hugger and XeliN should be nuked tonight regardless. After these guys are dead, kill the votelist that formed against me. Like I said earlier, mafia are incredibly easy to fish out during votes that seem ambiguous like that. I used it to pretty much win last game alone and I'm almost 100% certain that it will apply here too. My nukes are duds, so Caller will not die. Regardless of if mafia is actively nuking or sitting back, either way you guys need too put some teeth to the town policy against nuking or you will lose. No questions asked. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
This is the most important paragraph in there. If you don't follow it, you are probably going to get raped. Do not let people who are probably mafia just spam the thread with incredibly illogical arguments to get you sidetracked. Editted to put red in. Frankly, since I'm going to die in 4 minutes, I don't care that I've editted:3. | ||
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 28 2010 13:21 L wrote: -we just lost a lynch. -we've taken the same amount of nukes towards town, only you can throw your nuke whereever you want. -we don't have the option of nuking you on day 2 because you can still retaliate. So the net effect of not killing you is essentially granting you a gratis nuke usage. I just. Look, I'll only say it one more time. No, actually I wont. Go away L. You're a stubborn asshole, who has no sense of trust or decency. I really hope you don't live your life this way, because if you treat people in life like you do on the internet, I feel sorry for you, because you have no friends. If you're being nuked and you're town, why wouldn't you throw a nuke onto the person you're most suspicious of? You're already going to die, why not take the KP into your own hands and fix the town up on your own? Did you even read what I quoted? I said that I will fulfill my promise. Later in the same post, I repeated this. More importantly, lets look at this in another manner: Strategy #2b: 1) You're town 2) We lynch you as per your agreement. 3) We lose a townie AND a lynch. See where this is going? I do, except that I think it's exceptionally obvious to everyone but yourself that I'm town-aligned. You're intentionally trying to soak tomorrow's lynch. Bullshit. Some good that would be when nukes can be used late game. This is the epiphany, right? You're warming up wonderfully. I bet you think you've got this all figured out. But actually you're doing more than that. See your strategy number 2? You admit in the same post that even if you're town, you WILL retaliate: No, I admit that I won't, but others certainly will. I wasn't speaking specifically about myself. When on the topic of not retaliating. Or we could kill the people who are most likely to be mafia and win. Those people are those who are distinctly anti-town. You define anti-town as 'anti-L' which is entirely different, and occasionally mutually exclusive. But really, that's irrelevant, it comes down to this: You admit that everyone in this game, if we followed you, could nuke at will. Given the long lineup that'll form for lynches, people will be less and less likely to actually die via a nuke. This is the exact same type of operation that happened in the red mafia game wherein we killed ourselves almost immediately starting with 2 shitty townies basically starting a shooting spree. Zero mafia died. Actually, there's an interesting lesson you could take from that. I believe BM is the standard bearer for the 'Townies shooting at each other' theory, which I think is pretty plausible. And that's reason #1 I want to limit the retaliatory nukes. That's what you want to re-create and its pretty obvious that its not in town's favor to do so. I don't want to recreate that, which is exactly the reason I'm suggesting we don't start firing more retaliatory nukes. Nuke this guy immediately after I die. Nuke XeliN as well. Since everyone's sitting around thinking someone else will do it, I will name 2 people. JeeJee and Haster. You're up to bat. If you don't want to, fine; pick someone of your choice. to do this. Who elected you mayor? To JeeJee and Haster, it's nice that L has chosen his two biggest supporters in this thread to do his bidding, but I suggest you draw your own conclusions, and then act upon them. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 28 2010 13:39 L wrote: Ignore the above post and nuke him. I'll be flipping egypt in a minute. And you read all of my arguments so fast! + Show Spoiler + Oh wait, you totally ignored them, and posted anyway. Why am I not surprised? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
MAXIMUM CARNAGE!!! ![[image loading]](http://www.sarna.net/files/incoming/forum/132792-nuke.jpg) A wave of destruction sweeps across the land. News outlets around the world are devastated at the destruction they are compelled to report. What was once a beautiful country of mystique and magic is now an atomic whirlpool. L has been melted off the Earth! L (Egypt, pro town, Medic) Missiles launched by BM towards Versatile will strike at 15:28 KST! Missiles launched in retaliation by Versatile will strike BM at 15:42 KST! Missiles launched by L towards Caller will strike at 10:09 KST! Nukes in the air: 3 Nukes detonated: 2 Radiation levels: low Day currently ends at 10:09 KST March29th | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
also, zona gets more suspicious by the passing minute. | ||
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
i hope to give you one last parting gift, as long as no force believes it wise to intervene. hurrah! hurrah! it is a celebration for all. : ) | ||
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johnnyspazz
Taiwan1470 Posts
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Versatile
United States396 Posts
he always advocates for killing townies to gain information. well, in that sense, you served your purpose, L. be proud. you get innocents killed by the boatload when you're town....take this as a....act in vengeful kindness. oh yes. kindness can be vengeful, don't you dare make a mistake about it, young man. *skips across the town square picking petals from a daisy* "he will learn....he will learn not.....he will learn.....he will learn not" | ||
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 28 2010 13:36 L wrote: Oh, so it seems I die in like 10 minutes. So here's what's up: I'm the medic. hence why I didn't give a shit about the person with anti-nukes calling himself out; I'd have been able to protect him. I'm going to flip green or blue. My country is egypt. I might be able to stop one of these nukes from dealing any damage, but I can't save myself so its kinda useless. If i'd have claimed earlier, I'd have died during the night to mafia anyways. See? Now this is something unfortunate that was lost in translation. But the problem here is that you were making an argument for a strategy that you knew would turn out alright... Except, on the surface, for the strategy to work, it required knowledge about your ability, which nobody else had. So, logically, you tried to paint that strategy as workable, and hoped nobody would call you on it. Unfortunately, myself and Zona (see page 40) realized that (to our eyes) that strategy was pretty poor, and so we argued against it. Now, while your initial intention on pushing a seemingly silly argument, by which the town would in fact benefit was correct, you couldn't leave it at that, you had to keep pushing away, and insulting away. And that's why I wasn't happy with you, L. You didn't need to keep pushing that one point. You didn't need to be such an asshole. You could've dropped it, it wasn't a particularly crucial point. And I did believe you were mafia, at least at first. Anyone pushing such a nakedly anti-town strategy (as I saw it) was definitely putting himself on the mafia radar. And then you called me 'kid' twice, and insulted my intelligence somewhere along the line, and I figured that, even if you weren't mafia, this would be a repeat of XX or XIX where you spent a good deal of time accidentally leading the town astray. As I stated in one of my posts afterwords, I was almost positive that my nuke would not be allowed to land, and so I thought my nuke would be a convenient role check. Unfortunately, BM spoiled my plan by claiming anti-nukes so early, and so I really didn't learn as much as I had wanted to. But I was being wholly honest when I said I wasn't going to nuke again, and especially not you. I felt as though I had learned enough through the reactions of some people. I did not approve of Versatile's strike because I was decently sure you were just being angry, and were not mafia. But I had nothing to do with that. In the end, before you roleclaimed and then got nuked, I was about 75% sure you were town, but what could I do? I have nothing to shoot down nukes. I'm truly sorry you died... this time. *** One final thing, It's funny because you stated that you asked Ace if it was alright to yell at me, and I actually pm'd the same thing—he must've thought it was hilarious—two people asking to argue with each other. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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