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On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance?
AKA:
On March 11 2010 05:32 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 05:12 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
As for mayoral elections.
I, BloodyC0bbler, am running for office.
With the setup of this game, and the fact elected positions can be RC'd, the elected positions are far more likely to end up in townie hands. This is a good thing, and I believe it is in our best interests to make sure town can get in.
I believe that I would be a good candidate because I have many games worth of experience, a few as an elected official, and others where I have have helped in the pinning of reds. I believe that from this experience I will be able to help the town quickly and hopefully bring about a swift end to the mafia.
The Plan:
The plan is simple. Whoever is elected (in this case I would love it to be me), but regardless, whoever is elected. The dt or dt's will both check the elected officials. I would say if your a dt and numbered 1-12 on the list, check the mayor, 13-25 check the pardoner. Instantly we have information. If they are a blue role you write it down. If they are red, speak up to someone (possibly wait a day to find a green person in a check). Reveal the findings, person dies.
If they are green, keep them on a seperate list.
Soon as you get two greens, RC them, and tell them who you checked and start a circle.
If you get blues. Keep that info to yourself until you need it proved. If you find a dt, make them check someone (most likely one you've checked to confirm), medic prot someone, vig hit someone, etc...
Anyone who flips red dies.
For all those who are not a dt. Constantly update your posts in the archive thread, and carefully analyze peoples posting behaviours. If you think something is a tell, or feel they are scummy, rather than just point a finger, really sit down and prove it. But be aware that if you cause the death of an important player and they flip town, you will prob quickly follow.
Medics, protect the bgs with your life. We will randomly pick one from the list of two, and then tell you to prot them.
Past protecting the bgs, no one talk to them in PM's, IM's, or IRC, period. They are not confirmable, do not associate with them. They can talk via thread, feel free to respond to them here, do not tell them anything.
Conclusion:
This game can be won very easily if we play it smart. I believe outside of my general plan to play, the reason I should be elected is I believe I will represent a threat to the mafia, which means they will have to actively try to remove me, which will give themselves away. If they don't I will continue to strengthen the town, and effectively force them to GG. Beware, this ain't fool proof. Don't say I didn't tell you. Watch for "green" politicians: Show nested quote +Michael: My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator.
Kay Adams: Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed.
Michael: Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?
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Wait a second...we can't do the medics protecting bodyguards scenario. If a mafia-aligned bus driver gets in contact with the mafia, they just switch the bodyguard with a random player and hit random player. The BG dies. *Back to the drawing board.
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On March 11 2010 11:39 l10f wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? I always wondered why GF's always pick blue roles instead of green, wouldn't it make more sense to pick green because there are more of them?
Not every GF picked a blue role! 
+ Show Spoiler +So what if I was immune to rolechecks? I was GREEN!
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On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance?
Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green?
If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point).
The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted.
If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green.
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What I really want to know is: what does Bill Murray think of this???
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On March 11 2010 11:26 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 10:37 madnessman wrote:On March 11 2010 10:30 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 10:26 Versatile wrote:On March 11 2010 09:44 L wrote:On March 11 2010 09:00 Incognito wrote:
Mayor elections. I am announcing my candidacy for office.
Rolechecks: There's 1/25 GFs. But there's two known BGs who are pointless to rolecheck, so its really a 1/23 chance. Since 5 mafia can run for office and the GF can be picked after the mafia knows if they will get office, there is little point to rolechecking the mayor/pardoner. If there was one office and elections were determined randomly, there is a 20% chance of having a mafia mayor. Add another office, and your chance increases. Add a mafia busdriver, and you can't really do that. So in the end, BC's contention that elected officials have a greater chance of falling into town hands because false because the GF is picked. Which means that any mafia elected has the possibility of becoming the GF.
BG protection. As BC said, BGs should get protection if we are to have invincible elected officials. In order for us to determine impartially who the medic should protect, we need to make it random. If I announce in the thread however, it may encourage flamewheel to alter the results to screw us over (or not?!). Since we don't know who the bodyguards are yet, as long as we determine now who the medics will protect, it doesn't matter who chooses. So right now, I'm sending pms to 4 people. All four of them will contain the same information, either first or last. After elections, everybody who got a pm reveals it and medics protect which either the first or last BG based on the BG's positions on the signup list. Questions? Objections?
Vigilantes. Stay secret. Mafia bus drivers means you can't announce your hit in thread to confirm yourself.
Town-aligned Bus Driver strategies. You may think that you need to be gosu to use this role effectively. But you don't. You don't even need to know the actions to use this role. The mere threat of Bus Drivers will cause the mafia to second guess any attempts to kill prominent players. One way to use Bus Drivers effectively: Swap a prominent player with some random player who you think won't be targetted. This effectively makes the prominent player invincible for one night. If you are a bus driver, do not reveal whether or not you have used up your 2 actions. To be effective, you need to keep the mafia unaware that you could switch out prominent players at any point in the game. This means that medic lists are not necessary. Medics are free to protect the chosen BG.
Archives. For the sake of the town, please use it. It will help us sort through the inactives and will help us when you die.
About newer players getting elected: Its a nice democratic idea. But its only worked once in the past. And that was with SemiOldGuy. Other than that, the benefits of the Mayor/Pardoner positions are that you are almost impossible to kill by the mafia. The town would benefit the most if the Mayor/Pardoner were strong pro-town players. An invincible pro-town Ver or MBH is more scary than an invincible DT. Especially with this format with bus drivers. If we could get a strong player who happens to be a DT, well, then that's even better. But strong players that the mafia will be afraid of > blue roles. Over the past many games I've realized that the person who first starts pushing the GF as a method of destabilizing town is probably the GF himself. Last game, for instance, Ace made repeated reference to the fact that he wanted to 'prove himself' through shooting. It was a pretty obvious self reference. When I asked called to be put back in, without even seeing the game I told him I was killing Ace, but the game was fucked and over by that point. ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Ah so you must understand? What does "pushing the GF" mean? He's trying to make you look bad, by saying that someone who accuses others of being the Godfather is usually the Godfather himself, since said person is just trying to divert suspicion so the town won't realize that it is HE who is GF.. Which doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense to me, because when the accused GF gets lynch and turns over town-aligned, won't the accuser just look like someone who cried wolf? No,its more that players with a certain role are more likely to ask questions about that role or how they fit into the game than other players. A player who makes a huge post about a DT plan then goes afk looks VERY much like a DT because he's doing 2 things DTs do: thinks about himself and his role as a DT, then he tries to not die. Greens generally run inactive in our games unless they're veteran players trying to run pro-town moves, or bad players trying to stave off the boredom of being plain. Greens also try to trap people in pms, but that doesn't really work well. By contrast someone like the vet will post excessively pro-town things in a bid to get killed; Ver generally doesn't talk very much in an effort to stay alive for a few days; Last game as Vet he was active far earlier. Some other vets will attempt to claim medic or DT in an effort to get hit. This doesn't work well in our games because we shoot liars (sometimes). I'm also running on the idea that there's going to be a good player who's GF; I haven't really seen GF given to a shitty player because they generally can't command enough respect within the mafia to have people agree. if that's the case, there are 5 main 'candidates' for GF in the game. Me, Malongo, Incog, Cobbler and Foolishness. I know I'm not, so for my personal calculations, there's a 25% chance one of these 5 is the GF. Additionally, guessing on how teams balance, given mafia's low kp and the structure of the game, I'd say that 2-3 of these players are probably mafia. Incog and Cobbler have decided to run. That's perfectly fine and entirely expected of them. If the mafia team running is most likely to only send a GF candidate after the early talk of checks, then one of them is probably legit, and the other is probably not. Additionally, that also means that foolishness and Malongo are probably 1-1 on the legit/not ratio too. But I'm not confirmed to people who aren't me (yet) so the actual numbers are a bit off. But that's all conjecture, and frankly it won't matter because by night 2 we'll have all of them checked and the 1-2 goons in that group will likely be caught and the rest will join the town circle.
Never thought I'd see you put me in a "top candidates" list. I feel like my life has meaning now!
Someone mentioned (I think Malongo) that it's better to vote for a person who's constantly active than a person who makes his/her candidacy and then is fairly inactive for the rest of the game. On the contrary though, I would think that a mafia would be more desperate to get into office and therefore would be more active and posting more in order to try to get the town's favor. In the other game, l10f made a half assed candidacy for mayor and then disappeared (cause he was the DT). I think it makes more sense for a blue role to run for office, and then just disappear if nobody seems to be voting for him/her as they don't want to attract attention.
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On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green.
If no greens ran for office though, you would just be handing the mafia a hitlist of the candidates that were running.
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On March 11 2010 11:57 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green. If no greens ran for office though, you would just be handing the mafia a hitlist of the candidates that were running.
You'd prob give them 1-2 confirmed blues, one of which would most likely get office if not both. Anyone who has seen a game where a dt made it into office knows how abusive it can get.
I do agree however, that greens should run. In a game like this, if a dt checks a green office holder, they can just use that person as a mouth all game. Yes there is a slight chance that person could be the gf, but thats a 1 in 24 chance.
I would like to hear the input of some of our "inactive" posters at the moment. The game has not been up that long, but with mayoral voting starting, It's always nice to see everyone at least semi active.
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On March 11 2010 11:57 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green. If no greens ran for office though, you would just be handing the mafia a hitlist of the candidates that were running.
Well, that's the result of having checkable offices. Greens shouldn't be running for office unless they plan on losing.
As for the comment about mafia being desperate to get office; Rofl. With a bus consisting of 20% of players in a game where we typically have less than 50% of the people throw meaningful votes, you think they're scared they can't convince 2-3 townies to vote for them, then bus if needed? Oh please. Mafia candidates often get in with little to no mafia support on the voter rolls too.
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I do agree however, that greens should run. In a game like this, if a dt checks a green office holder, they can just use that person as a mouth all game. Yes there is a slight chance that person could be the gf, but thats a 1 in 24 chance. Yeah, we just went through what the GF might take into office, and you're saying you'd pm the impossible to confirm member. Or rather you're saying you SHOULD pm the impossible to confirm member. Somehow I think this is a really good way to get a DT killed during night 2.
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On March 11 2010 12:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I do agree however, that greens should run. In a game like this, if a dt checks a green office holder, they can just use that person as a mouth all game. Yes there is a slight chance that person could be the gf, but thats a 1 in 24 chance.
Nah, it's not 1 in 24, since if any mafia make it it will be the GF.
And yea, I also think not only blues should rnun, for those reasons but also as someone mentioned out earlier it's can be better in a lot of situations to have a pro-town verteran that is green than a blue that isn't really as experienced.
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On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green.
Lol ok. Now you make sense. Now I get why you want offices checked 
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On March 11 2010 11:45 L wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 11:34 Incognito wrote:On March 11 2010 11:12 L wrote:ermm, ace was innocent last game so that example actually goes against your argument. Yeah, hence why Ace's actions were misleading. But the issue is that while he looked like the GF, he wasn't fooling anyone but the town. In the end he got shot for it. If a member of the mafia wins mayor/pardonner, isn't it GUARANTEED that he'll be the Godfather? Not even remotely. Mafia can grab both spots, put the goon in the mayor role, have him swing around with his 3 votes for a day or 2, then have the GF pardoner gain credibility by pushing the lynch of the mayor. Then lategame comes, we're in a lylo situation and... oh shit, we can't lynch because he pardons. The reason why they can't is the threat of having DTs check both, yet people are here saying "well, its useless to check". Wrong. checking is the threat itself, and there's a 100% chance that you find someone legit in either mayor or pardoner. If the GF goes up, what role does he take? What if his counterpart is blue and gets confirmed through role usage? Can the GF have his team hit the BGs in order to take out the confirmed protected blue? If he does, he needs to kill both BGs or reveal a goon (or just reveals a goon), then he needs a GOOD reason for why HE isn't dead the next day. Either way, the threat of checking both elected positions is massive, especially because if a GF doesn't run, then you have a set of DTs and protected blues that have tools to confirm each other. A medic mayor, for instance, who blocks a hit is a huge "oh shit" moment for mafia. Letting two potential blues have that position is also huge. Additionally, there's the question of 'what blue'? Who does the GF take? If he's a safe role, why would he run for mayor? If he's an active role, he needs to lie carefully and can be found out if he tries to claim. And that's another point; Pretty much any blue that gets elected is probably going to claim immediately. So the GF can't fucking putz around. You guys simply don't see how powerful having a blue office holder that can be checked is. Qatol was shitting bricks about it earlier, which is why the BGs are public, but we can abuse that too. Just wait, champs. Think for a bit and build a strategy given our game format; its highly abusable. Uh a bit confusing here. But what happens if the GF just picks green? Nothing to prove and nothing to hide. How do we abuse that instance? Why the fuck are you running for mayor as green? If anyone is doing dumb shit like that I will drive the lynch bus straight down your face. These are confirmable spots; we can't confirm green beyond 'not goon'. We can confirm medic. We can confirm DT. We can confirm Driver (to a certain point). The only reason you'd want to take green into the mayorship is by asking to die the next day as a method of verifying that you're legit and allowing a controlled claim to go through. Even then, I think we've had a grand total of one person try that and he didnt' try that, he feinted. If you take the position that mafia's only going to run a single candidate, running as green seems even stupider; Mafia NEVER fail to get their candidate in if they want him there. EVER. So the idea that you'd step in to stop another mafia from getting in is absolutely retarded; you're taking the spot from a blue because you want to be cute and go "i pardon xyz, he's town for sureeeeeeeee" or throw a few extra votes around and pretend you're more important now that you aren't 'just' green.
You're running for office too L. I take it you are not green?
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On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there.
Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead.
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I would just like everyone to know that I have nothing to contribute at the moment, except that I agree with citi.zen that L should just roleclaim cause he will probably get killed anyway if he doesn't get elected and isn't mafia+we can hold him accountable if he does get elected, and that nemY likes men.
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+ Show Spoiler +From: Fulgrim [ Profile | Buddy ]
Subject: Bonjour
Date: 3/11/10 12:26
Tu es rouge oui? C'est la verite? J'espere que je ne mort pas la derniere nuit.
Reply
Keep'em coming.
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On March 11 2010 12:26 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 05:04 L wrote:
I got a role that makes me want mayor. Mayor is DT checkable in this game, keep that in mind, so even if the other DT wants to check, he can, then the confirmed train can go to town. Mafia will be forced to burn through bodyguards, and if they have a member he'll become pretty obvious after the kill.
So yeah, I'm still planning on killing Bill Murray and I think I'm a pretty cool guy, so vote for me.
In terms of plans; You guys must be joking if you think that killing the town driver is a good idea. The town driver can literally swap mafia hit BACK AT MAFIA. ITS ABSOLUTELY BALLS OFF THE WALL AWESOME.
After I'm elected, I've got a small roleclaim based play to go with; I'll ask DTs to check certain people during the night so that we can get groups started. Should be a pretty simple game from there. Might as well roleclaim at this point so we can confirm you one way or another. Or not. You've said too much already and are a mafia target anyway. If you are DT I do not want you dead.
Considering his sentence includes "the other DT"...it seems like he's claiming DT.
The thing is - we probably only have one DT.
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On March 11 2010 12:17 CynanMachae wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 12:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I do agree however, that greens should run. In a game like this, if a dt checks a green office holder, they can just use that person as a mouth all game. Yes there is a slight chance that person could be the gf, but thats a 1 in 24 chance.
Nah, it's not 1 in 24, since if any mafia make it it will be the GF. And yea, I also think not only blues should rnun, for those reasons but also as someone mentioned out earlier it's can be better in a lot of situations to have a pro-town verteran that is green than a blue that isn't really as experienced.
the math was in reference to being GF, if they flip red you kill them, if they flip green its almost certain they are green.
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LOL - you're right, even I hadn't read it that closely. Man, this is pretty sloppy... wtf gives.
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On March 11 2010 07:17 Fulgrim wrote:
It isn't safe for normal mafia to run for office, so they won't do that, the main danger here is GF. (Being unfamiliar with the busdriver rules, a mafia aligned one could switch the DT check off the elected official maybe?) Regardless we want to avoid getting a GF into office. Right now we have JeeJee, L, and BC running for office, chances are one of them is going to be GF. I'm going to withhold my vote until I see some more from the candidates or if there are anymore people that announce their campaign.
Mafia get to select GF AFTER the election. So if a normal mafia runs, they would just make that mafia member the GF if he wins or comes close to winning.
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EPT
