TL Mafia Ban List - Page 98
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
My very first game I posted deductive reasoning posthumously, because the situation was very stressful. My first game of mafia, EVER, I might add. I don't believe I ruined it. There were a few people who came out of that situation who are part of the foundation of this mafia community. Citi.zen, DoctorH, Flamewheel, myself, even JUGAN are funny names which will always be a part of the history of this community from that era of recruition into this forum. The game I hosted people were distasteful about, which used a weird balancing system, called Harry Potter Mafia (and the Deathly Hallows), had lovers in it. Some people didn't really like the fact that I gave a player a choice in his allegiance, whether or not he realized it. I guess I should have given warning that the setup, having lovers, had a little bit of a bastard element to it. I was a young mod. In Ace's PYP 2, where I pulled inventor, I was trying to be really too cute with it. I claimed that I didn't give any invention out post-death or something. I don't even really remember what I said. I was just making a joke about how poorly I had played, thinking there was no way mafia would kill me, because I was a bad player who would have botched the game in the endgame. I don't want to talk about Haunted Mafia. I apologize for that game. It was just that the town was so bad! When I came back on Gryffindor, I really don't feel I did anything wrong. I even advised Jackal to go take a breather from the thread after berating me. It's sort of like in professional sports, where the person retaliating gets ejected. It doesn't make any sense for the initiator to get off scott free if the person who took it with a level head gets in more trouble over it. Post game on that, or rather, post modkill, as I didn't get to finish the game, I attacked Meapak and RoL for their weak hosting, and bad decision making in this. I do not feel bad for that. Meapak, though very active, is quite young in this community, and probably in real life. RoL is really no better off than I am in terms of respecting individuals. That is my take on that scenario. I would apologize somewhat for Ace's, or for my very first game of mafia ever, but I would sincerely like to re-apologize for Haunted Mafia. That is all. | ||
Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
I can understand that people are mad about the bastard mod game you hosted, but hosting an odd game is not grounds for getting banned, at worst you can´t be a GM anymore. I expect that there was more than just using lover pairs, that´s not standard but far from an unknown mechanic. Secret lovers that don´t know eachother and also have different alignments, that´s another matter. Should make a fun game. | ||
Protactinium
Canada550 Posts
Mig breadcrumbed role PMs to syllogism, which is definitely something that is not allowed. While "no discussing role PMs" is not an explicit rule, "no posting/comparing times on role PMs" is. This ban request is certainly not unprecedented, as (bumatlarge?) was modkilled in Ace's game for breadcrumbing, and Curu was modkilled for the same in the last game (XLV). Given that Mig was playing and was aware of what was going on last game, there really should be no excuse for his behavior in this game. I propose at least a 1 game ban for him. sinani206 brings up an example of what seems to be happening fairly often in recent games. People join games, then after the game starts, send a PM asking to be replaced with little to no compelling reasons. I understand that sometimes something important unexpectedly comes up, but this is getting ridiculous. Reasons like "I just came back from vacation and am too busy" really don't cut it. The exemptions are there to grant leniency in serious emergency cases and should not be used liberally. In the past few games I think this leniency has been abused, and it is not fair to the hosts and players when you decide you want to be replaced without a serious excuse. I think that because of the new trend of accepting replacements, people have taken their commitment to the game less seriously and are using replacements as an easy out. I don't think many of the people asking for replacements have ever hosted a game, but it is seriously a big headache to the host when they have to scramble on short notice to find a player to replace you. The replacement policy is not here to allow you to pass your burden off to the host when you dont want to play anymore. It is here primarily to deal with emergencies. When you sign up for a game, you are signalling your intention to play. Please take it seriously. | ||
wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On October 24 2011 07:20 Protactinium wrote: I am going to request 1 game bans for Mig and sinani206. Mig breadcrumbed role PMs to syllogism, which is definitely something that is not allowed. While "no discussing role PMs" is not an explicit rule, "no posting/comparing times on role PMs" is. This ban request is certainly not unprecedented, as (bumatlarge?) was modkilled in Ace's game for breadcrumbing, and Curu was modkilled for the same in the last game (XLV). Given that Mig was playing and was aware of what was going on last game, there really should be no excuse for his behavior in this game. I propose at least a 1 game ban for him. sinani206 brings up an example of what seems to be happening fairly often in recent games. People join games, then after the game starts, send a PM asking to be replaced with little to no compelling reasons. I understand that sometimes something important unexpectedly comes up, but this is getting ridiculous. Reasons like "I just came back from vacation and am too busy" really don't cut it. The exemptions are there to grant leniency in serious emergency cases and should not be used liberally. In the past few games I think this leniency has been abused, and it is not fair to the hosts and players when you decide you want to be replaced without a serious excuse. I think that because of the new trend of accepting replacements, people have taken their commitment to the game less seriously and are using replacements as an easy out. I don't think many of the people asking for replacements have ever hosted a game, but it is seriously a big headache to the host when they have to scramble on short notice to find a player to replace you. The replacement policy is not here to allow you to pass your burden off to the host when you dont want to play anymore. It is here primarily to deal with emergencies. When you sign up for a game, you are signalling your intention to play. Please take it seriously. Actually just a clarification, Curu was modkilled for revealing he had been roleblocked/muted in XLV. I don't believe he was modkilled for the PM issue that happened in that game. | ||
chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On October 24 2011 07:18 Forumite wrote: Yikes, there seems to be a lot of post-death posting that affected those game, that´s bad, that´s more than just than being rude and posting too much. Don´t post after death, that´s bad, stop that. I can understand that people are mad about the bastard mod game you hosted, but hosting an odd game is not grounds for getting banned, at worst you can´t be a GM anymore. I expect that there was more than just using lover pairs, that´s not standard but far from an unknown mechanic. Secret lovers that don´t know eachother and also have different alignments, that´s another matter. Should make a fun game. You're vastly simplifying the problems and drama/chaos that was caused. He not only continued posting in one game after he died, giving out all his analysis and continued to argue his point, but he also posted the results of his DT check AFTER he had died in-game. That doesn't get excused by a "that's bad! stop that!" He's not a dog. He also harassed mods/players/etc. in PMs and when told to stop, continued. I'd be willing to let him try again when the new year (2012) starts since I'm a three-strikes kinda guy and that's BEING NICE. I'm pretty sure some people in this subforum will always be somewhat against him coming back while others would want him to wait a whole year (so six more months?) | ||
Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On October 24 2011 07:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Actually just a clarification, Curu was modkilled for revealing he had been roleblocked/muted in XLV. I don't believe he was modkilled for the PM issue that happened in that game. Correct, Curu was modkilled because he said he was muted. There was some talk about role-PMs, and that Kurumi wanted to add a restriction on discussing role PMs, however noone suffered any punishment for this, because there was no rule against this when the game started. That´s important to remember, it wasn´t forbidden when that game started. As for people asking for replacement right away, that´s bad, and I understand that Prot's angry about it. There´s no rule against it yet, but perhaps there should be, it´s a problem for the host, for Town when they try to get a read on people, and the team the player was on, since he´s basically giving up on them for the day(s) the role is silent. A time limit on replacement might be an idea, only replacements before the first lynch, or the second in big games, that would elimitate some of the problems, at least from the perspective of the players. Having a few reserve players might help too, but it doesn´t change the fact that replacements and modkills really shouldn´t happen. | ||
kitaman27
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United States9244 Posts
On October 24 2011 07:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Actually just a clarification, Curu was modkilled for revealing he had been roleblocked/muted in XLV. I don't believe he was modkilled for the PM issue that happened in that game. In that case, it was a two strikes situation. If he didn't already have a warning for the breadcrumbing, the second issue probably wouldn't have resulted in a modkill. I also think prot makes a good point about the replacement issue. Without a good reason, replacing out can be a big pain. | ||
chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:00 kitaman27 wrote: In that case, it was a two strikes situation. If he didn't already have a warning for the breadcrumbing, the second issue probably wouldn't have resulted in a modkill. I also think prot makes a good point about the replacement issue. Without a good reason, replacing out can be a big pain. I thought this was already how things were run? If you ask for replacement cause you're "busy" and without a real emergency reason, you're going to be modkilled. | ||
Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:00 chaoser wrote: You're vastly simplifying the problems and drama/chaos that was caused. He not only continued posting in one game after he died, giving out all his analysis and continued to argue his point, but he also posted the results of his DT check AFTER he had died in-game. That doesn't get excused by a "that's bad! stop that!" He's not a dog. He also harassed mods/players/etc. in PMs and when told to stop, continued. I'd be willing to let him try again when the new year (2012) starts since I'm a three-strikes kinda guy and that's BEING NICE. I'm pretty sure some people in this subforum will always be somewhat against him coming back while others would want him to wait a whole year (so six more months?) DT check, analysis and more thoughts? Seriously... Anyway, I understand what posting after death does, and I understand that he´s a person, and if you ask him to stop posting after death, then he might stop it. The alternative is getting banned again, so he might take the hint this time. | ||
chaoser
United States5541 Posts
Anyway, I understand what posting after death does, and I understand that he´s a person, and if you ask him to stop posting after death, then he might stop it. The alternative is getting banned again, so he might take the hint this time. It's not like he WASN'T told to stop. Tons of people told him to stop multiple times. But he kept posting anyway. Go look up those games if you need proof. He also continually PMed hosts and mods, trying to get things his way when they specifically told him to stop doing that. When a host tells you to cool off from posting in the thread cause you've started to spam too much and are resorting to ad hominem attacks to get your point across, you don't respond back to the host/mod with a "chill out, I got this, let me do my thing" and then try to argue with the host about how to run HIS game. You clearly did not read all of the things written in the link I posted before detailing everything: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=114622¤tpage=92#1828 Eventually, DoctorHelvetica sent a PM to Plexa asking him to deal with the situation because Bill Murray was completely out of control. After he sent the request, Bill Murray finally calmed down and apologized in the thread. However, Plexa still banned him from the site for a few days and took away his access to the Mafia Forum. Bill Murray was just temp banned for 2 days by Plexa. That account was created on 2009-10-24 10:18:54 and had 4018 posts. Reason: I don't care that you apologised in the Mafia thread, your actions still warrant a ban. It was enough to result in a REAL TL ban as well as a ban to the mafia forum so yeah... | ||
Radfield
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Canada2720 Posts
I'm not trying to play devils advocate or anything, as I fully agree that replacing is being used too liberally. I replaced out of Closed Casket, and felt pretty lame when i did it. Thankfully Ace found a replacement no-problem and citizen played far better than I could have. However in that case I did tell Ace that if he couldn't find a replacement I would play it out. Mafia just takes such a huge amount of time if you want to play well. Even if you are only around to read and post it is still an investment, and is certainly not surprising that so many people are not up for it. | ||
Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:19 Radfield wrote: What if players find their own replacement? If I join a game, and realize suddenly that I can no longer fulfill my posting requirements, is it ok for me to go get another player to take my spot? That certainly takes the burden off the host. I'm not trying to play devils advocate or anything, as I fully agree that replacing is being used too liberally. I replaced out of Closed Casket, and felt pretty lame when i did it. Thankfully Ace found a replacement no-problem and citizen played far better than I could have. However in that case I did tell Ace that if he couldn't find a replacement I would play it out. Mafia just takes such a huge amount of time if you want to play well. Even if you are only around to read and post it is still an investment, and is certainly not surprising that so many people are not up for it. Well I don't think it's really a set in stone thing. sinani does this in -every- game. I think of all the games I've played with him there's been 1 where he didn't completely blow off posting/contributing anything and all he did that game was post stupid shit complaining about me for attacking him. I realize the kid's like 13 or something but he should really stop signing up for games if he's going to do absolutely nothing in all of them. | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:18 chaoser wrote: It's not like he WASN'T told to stop. Tons of people told him to stop multiple times. But he kept posting anyway. Go look up those games if you need proof. He also continually PMed hosts and mods, trying to get things his way when they specifically told him to stop doing that. When a host tells you to cool off from posting in the thread cause you've started to spam too much and are resorting to ad hominem attacks to get your point across, you don't respond back to the host/mod with a "chill out, I got this, let me do my thing" and then try to argue with the host about how to run HIS game. You clearly did not read all of the things written in the link I posted before detailing everything: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=114622¤tpage=92#1828 It was enough to result in a REAL TL ban as well as a ban to the mafia forum so yeah... Guilty as charged, I didn´t read the spoilers before, and when I did my opinion of BM changed for the worse. I still think that being banned for 9 months should have taught him a lesson, and we´ll know when next he plays. | ||
chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:54 Forumite wrote: Guilty as charged, I didn´t read the spoilers before, and when I did my opinion of BM changed for the worse. I still think that being banned for 9 months should have taught him a lesson, and we´ll know when next he plays. Hey, I agree that he should get a last and final chance lol. You just gotta convince the rest of the forum to agree as well lol | ||
iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:54 Forumite wrote: Guilty as charged, I didn´t read the spoilers before, and when I did my opinion of BM changed for the worse. I still think that being banned for 9 months should have taught him a lesson, and we´ll know when next he plays. Again, go back and read, specifically the gryffindor game and the conversation when he last asked to be reinstated. Few people want him to play in their games, so even if he wasn't officially banned, either hosts wouldn't let him in or players would refuse to play (hence needing a smurf last time he played [and got banned again]). Even hosts such as myself, who weren't around during BM's first long-term ban, have read from back then and don't want him to play, based on his behavior both then and now. | ||
chaoser
United States5541 Posts
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On October 24 2011 09:36 iGrok wrote: Again, go back and read, specifically the gryffindor game and the conversation when he last asked to be reinstated. Few people want him to play in their games, so even if he wasn't officially banned, either hosts wouldn't let him in or players would refuse to play (hence needing a smurf last time he played [and got banned again]). Even hosts such as myself, who weren't around during BM's first long-term ban, have read from back then and don't want him to play, based on his behavior both then and now. So you are saying that it´s no use, and we should just perma-ban him now and be done with it? I think you are painting a too dark of a picture. There does appear to be a lot of animosity towards BM, but it won´t be the forum-wide shunning that you think it should/will be. He´s been told that the ban is 9 months, and he´s still here waiting to get back in the game, the least we can do is to give him a chance. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
I say this for one simple bit. Hosts are too "nice". When mafia games first started on TL people would get into massive arguments and in some cases flameish wars ingame and in doing so a ton of information was gathered about both players and their affiliations. Now if you call someone an asshole or an arrogant prick you could be up for a warning or potential ban depending on the host. As infuriating as BM can be, his behaviour was easily dealt with. L policy killed him every game if he was annoyed at him, done. If you get annoyed with him, stop reading his posts, etc... Yes he spams games and makes them harder to read but now we have the filter tool so its less of an issue. People on this forum need to take a step back and realize people can change, and a game is a game. He did a specific style of play insanely well and while people may not like it, or it bothers them, they tolerate similar behaviour from others. We have multiple players that have insanely annoying play styles that continue to play with little to no flak. BM has been involved with some very questionable post death plays, however, so have many players who have gone unpunished by those actions. He has sat out for a fairly decent amount of time and should be entitled to one last chance. There will be at least 1 host out there willing to give him that shot, and realistically a host could take him as a player regardless of the banlist (as that is a hosts choice) so the entire debate is kinda moot if someone just opts to let him play. | ||
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