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On July 06 2015 09:21 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 09:13 Azarkon wrote:
Incarnation was given a difficult job. He was given a champion that's designed to all-in against a Shen. And then to have his jungler not gank mid even a single time. Have fun with that.
The issue is not Incarnation though obviously he's not the Bjergsen people thought he was going to be. It's the strategy/tactics. Hai played a specific style of mid and trying to work Incarnation into it isn't going to work. C9 needs to work out their issues as a team. Bringing in Hai for a week on a role he hasn't played for years won't work. Well put. Another thing we can talk about are the team comps. I don't even know how C9 could win. You have Rumble who wants to team fights and Zed who doesn't. Lee Sin who wants to put early pressure on the map against lanes that couldn't be ganked. Who are you going to gank? Shen? The pussy Ezreal player? Graves/Thresh? I guess they were counting on objective control with Lee and Rumble while Zed drew pressure. But there was no way Zed could draw any significant pressure when thee's a Shen on the map. T8 with the terminator Nien just had a more versatile team comp and they played it out a little better.
How does Zed not pull pressure when Shen was behind due to Lane Swaps?
Shen literally stopped being picked due to Zed just killing him and creating huuuge amounts of map pressure. Granted Zed has been nerfed, and Shen has been buffed since then, but it doesn't matter of the lane Swap; Zed gets full gold and Experience, Shen doesn't.
If he couldn't kill a Shen that was 3 levels and 3k gold behind due to lane swaps, he shouldn't have played Zed. He Basically contributed nothing.
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On July 06 2015 09:25 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 09:21 Sonnington wrote:On July 06 2015 09:13 Azarkon wrote:
Incarnation was given a difficult job. He was given a champion that's designed to all-in against a Shen. And then to have his jungler not gank mid even a single time. Have fun with that.
The issue is not Incarnation though obviously he's not the Bjergsen people thought he was going to be. It's the strategy/tactics. Hai played a specific style of mid and trying to work Incarnation into it isn't going to work. C9 needs to work out their issues as a team. Bringing in Hai for a week on a role he hasn't played for years won't work. Well put. Another thing we can talk about are the team comps. I don't even know how C9 could win. You have Rumble who wants to team fights and Zed who doesn't. Lee Sin who wants to put early pressure on the map against lanes that couldn't be ganked. Who are you going to gank? Shen? The pussy Ezreal player? Graves/Thresh? I guess they were counting on objective control with Lee and Rumble while Zed drew pressure. But there was no way Zed could draw any significant pressure when thee's a Shen on the map. T8 with the terminator Nien just had a more versatile team comp and they played it out a little better. How does Zed not pull pressure when Shen was behind due to Lane Swaps? Shen literally stopped being picked due to Zed just killing him and creating huuuge amounts of map pressure. Granted Zed has been nerfed, and Shen has been buffed since then, but it doesn't matter of the lane Swap; Zed gets full gold and Experience, Shen doesn't. If he couldn't kill a Shen that was 3 levels and 3k gold behind due to lane swaps, he shouldn't have played Zed. He Basically contributed nothing.
Ez pz, just turret dive Shen... For one, there was no way Zed could 100-0 Shen at any point in the game. For two, T8 kept pressure on mid lane so Zed was never left with Shen for any significant amount of time to poke him down.
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On July 06 2015 09:29 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 09:25 iCanada wrote:On July 06 2015 09:21 Sonnington wrote:On July 06 2015 09:13 Azarkon wrote:
Incarnation was given a difficult job. He was given a champion that's designed to all-in against a Shen. And then to have his jungler not gank mid even a single time. Have fun with that.
The issue is not Incarnation though obviously he's not the Bjergsen people thought he was going to be. It's the strategy/tactics. Hai played a specific style of mid and trying to work Incarnation into it isn't going to work. C9 needs to work out their issues as a team. Bringing in Hai for a week on a role he hasn't played for years won't work. Well put. Another thing we can talk about are the team comps. I don't even know how C9 could win. You have Rumble who wants to team fights and Zed who doesn't. Lee Sin who wants to put early pressure on the map against lanes that couldn't be ganked. Who are you going to gank? Shen? The pussy Ezreal player? Graves/Thresh? I guess they were counting on objective control with Lee and Rumble while Zed drew pressure. But there was no way Zed could draw any significant pressure when thee's a Shen on the map. T8 with the terminator Nien just had a more versatile team comp and they played it out a little better. How does Zed not pull pressure when Shen was behind due to Lane Swaps? Shen literally stopped being picked due to Zed just killing him and creating huuuge amounts of map pressure. Granted Zed has been nerfed, and Shen has been buffed since then, but it doesn't matter of the lane Swap; Zed gets full gold and Experience, Shen doesn't. If he couldn't kill a Shen that was 3 levels and 3k gold behind due to lane swaps, he shouldn't have played Zed. He Basically contributed nothing. Ez pz, just turret dive Shen. For one, there was no way Zed could 100-0 Shen at any point in the game. For two, T8 kept pressure on mid lane so Zed was never left with Shen for any significant amount of time to poke him down.
he doesn't need to kill shen, just force him back. Then there is a huge pressure change on the map...
The other thing is, he didn't have to dive Shen, because Shen was OUTPUSHING HIM. Its not like he had the waves crashing into the tower.
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On July 06 2015 09:30 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 09:29 Sonnington wrote:On July 06 2015 09:25 iCanada wrote:On July 06 2015 09:21 Sonnington wrote:On July 06 2015 09:13 Azarkon wrote:
Incarnation was given a difficult job. He was given a champion that's designed to all-in against a Shen. And then to have his jungler not gank mid even a single time. Have fun with that.
The issue is not Incarnation though obviously he's not the Bjergsen people thought he was going to be. It's the strategy/tactics. Hai played a specific style of mid and trying to work Incarnation into it isn't going to work. C9 needs to work out their issues as a team. Bringing in Hai for a week on a role he hasn't played for years won't work. Well put. Another thing we can talk about are the team comps. I don't even know how C9 could win. You have Rumble who wants to team fights and Zed who doesn't. Lee Sin who wants to put early pressure on the map against lanes that couldn't be ganked. Who are you going to gank? Shen? The pussy Ezreal player? Graves/Thresh? I guess they were counting on objective control with Lee and Rumble while Zed drew pressure. But there was no way Zed could draw any significant pressure when thee's a Shen on the map. T8 with the terminator Nien just had a more versatile team comp and they played it out a little better. How does Zed not pull pressure when Shen was behind due to Lane Swaps? Shen literally stopped being picked due to Zed just killing him and creating huuuge amounts of map pressure. Granted Zed has been nerfed, and Shen has been buffed since then, but it doesn't matter of the lane Swap; Zed gets full gold and Experience, Shen doesn't. If he couldn't kill a Shen that was 3 levels and 3k gold behind due to lane swaps, he shouldn't have played Zed. He Basically contributed nothing. Ez pz, just turret dive Shen. For one, there was no way Zed could 100-0 Shen at any point in the game. For two, T8 kept pressure on mid lane so Zed was never left with Shen for any significant amount of time to poke him down. he doesn't need to kill shen, just force him back. Then there is a huge pressure change on the map... The other thing is, he didn't have to dive Shen, because Shen was OUTPUSHING HIM. Its not like he had the waves crashing into the tower.
Actually Shen was under his tower the whole time. I don't know what you're talking about.
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C9 picked Zed to shut down Ezrael, not to shut down Shen, which was why they kept him mid. Otherwise Ezrael gets free farm and mid tower pressure. They understood at one stage that it was not going to work and switched him to the side lanes, but at that stage Shen was already big. It's fine to say that had he played aggressive he'd have gotten 1-2 kills on Shen. But that wasn't going to change the game because it's pretty easy for Ezrael to switch to his lane and then he's again not able to pressure him because of the Shen.
What they needed was for Hai to gank the **** out of mid, using Incarnation's early game advantage to prevent Shen from turning the fight around. But Hai never touched mid.
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Did Incarnation use a single R this game?
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On July 06 2015 10:06 Sufficiency wrote:
Did Incarnation use a single R this game?
Nope.
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On July 06 2015 10:09 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2015 10:06 Sufficiency wrote:
Did Incarnation use a single R this game? Nope.
Holy shit...
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On July 06 2015 09:34 Azarkon wrote:
C9 picked Zed to shut down Ezrael, not to shut down Shen, which was why they kept him mid. Otherwise Ezrael gets free farm and mid tower pressure. They understood at one stage that it was not going to work and switched him to the side lanes, but at that stage Shen was already big. It's fine to say that had he played aggressive he'd have gotten 1-2 kills on Shen. But that wasn't going to change the game because it's pretty easy for Ezrael to switch to his lane and then he's again not able to pressure him because of the Shen.
What they needed was for Hai to gank the **** out of mid, using Incarnation's early game advantage to prevent Shen from turning the fight around. But Hai never touched mid.
idk, at the same time you just saw 2 teams in a row pick hard engage against mid ez to huge success, and instead pick rumble/lee sin instead of a maokai jarvan or something, super confusing. Like when Ali is your only hard cc how are you gonna get onto ez at all
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I am really pissed Incarnati0n didn't at least tried. I woulda been ok with him trying to outplay his opponent and failing. But this, not doing anything , just farming with one of his assassins mains and not fucking trying anything ?
I've lost all faith in this guy, I'm done.
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My opinion is that Balls is at fault mostly for the loss.
They had an early game comp to get a good gold lead and push towers and close the game.
Balls gave to many kills in the early game and the strat didnt worked. T8 had an much better scalling so there was no chance later on.
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EPT
